ELL's Cabin

3:52 AM

I wonder if it's really a good practice for learners, the free writing.

Just like the speak-first idea, write-first or write-freely could have a similar effect.

Unless they have some coaches nearby, which Lang-8 seems to be able to simulate the effect somewhat.

Anonymous

Are you familiar with Paul Nation's Four Strands?

Q: When should I vote to delete answers that I wouldn't flag?

Nope.

StackExchange

0

I recently asked When should I vote to delete answers that I wouldn't flag? on the mother meta, but so far haven't gotten a lot of feedback. Since ELL is the only site I can currently directly delete answers on, I figured I might as well go ahead and ask here: what's the long tail of answers that...

Anonymous

victoria.ac.nz/lals/about/staff/publications/paul-nation/…

Anonymous

That reminds me. We need one more delete vote here: ell.stackexchange.com/questions/48093/swag-slang-meaning/…

3:57 AM

@snailboat Done!

Anonymous

Yay!

@snailboat Ahh... I just saw the abstract. (Thanks!) Before reading the details, I personally believe in prolonging the silent period.

Anonymous

I'm not sure what I believe, personally.

Anonymous

Some folks try to look at language learners who seem to learn quickly and language learners who seem to learn slowly and see what they do differently.

Anonymous

kuir.jm.kansai-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/10112/767/1/…

4:01 AM

But I think we perhaps have to take the psychological side of each learner into account. Speak-first (and perhaps write-first too) has one big advantage, it can give quick feedback and the feeling of achievement, which is important.

Hmm... they relate the term "metacognitive strategies" to things I wouldn't expect!

Oh, the "deep listening" strategies seem to go well with my idea.

> Another important finding is that at the intermediate and the advanced stages of their learning, GLLs emphasized accuracy over fluency. They seem to realize that once fluency is achieved, efforts for accuracy are indispensable for attaining highly advanced ability in a foreign language.

Wow, did they do the research for me? :D

(Personally, I think fluency is overrated.)

Ah, wait, the table has both "Emphasizing fluency over accuracy" and "Emphasizing accuracy over fluency". So, either works, according to the research, I think.

Thank you for the paper!

Anonymous

But they mark "Emphasizing fluency over accuracy" as a beginner/intermediate stage strategy, and "Emphasizing accuracy over fluency" as an advanced stage strategy.

Oh, right!

Anonymous

I like that paper because I think it's useful to look at what has actually worked empirically, as difficult as it is to quantify that sort of thing and do it in a rigorous manner

Anonymous

I think too much language acquisition research is based on someone's pet hypothesis

nods -- I'm sure it'll be useful for me in the future, too.

Anonymous

4:12 AM

Something they think makes sense and should be true

Anonymous

I think it's better to start out without that kind of hypothesis, and to look at what people are actually doing that seems to be working, and then build testable hypotheses on that :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. You might be interested in Vivian Cook's Second Language Learning and Language Teaching

I think I've reached the point that I know what I would use and what I think think is effective for me or some people who I can see what works for them through observations, and now open to any possibilities that work for each specific learner.

@snailboat Ah, it's not too expensive, even!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Language learners on the internet form communities, and a lot of them believe they know the best way to learn a language, and tell everyone else they should be doing it, too.

Anonymous

Lots of people on the internet telling other people that they're doing it wrong.

Anonymous

4:15 AM

Well, I'm pretty sure there are lots of bad ways to learn languages.

Anonymous

I also believe, though, that each of our journeys is unique, and what works for one person might not work as well for another.

Anonymous

There's also Strategies in Learning and Using a Second Language by Andrew D. Cohen

@snailboat I think it's pretty much like answers on ELL. Sometimes it's obvious to say a sentence is wrong. Sometimes it's not. And a lot of times, answerers or commenters are just plain wrong.

Anonymous

Yeah, that's a good analogy :-)

@snailboat Actually, I wanted to do an experiment on myself when learning Japanese. Too bad that it's so tough to find a good resource that could bring me up from the ground quickly.

Because the resource I want is quite unique, back then I was thinking to hire someone to build that resource for me, and then I was busy with something else. Now I'm thinking about it again. :-)

It could be boring work, and I don't have that big a budget, perhaps it only fits for some upper-intermediate Japanese learners of English (or Thai) who are willing to do tedious work with low pay. :D

Anonymous

4:25 AM

What sort of experiment were you imagining?

The experiment will be done on myself, but I need a specific kind of resource, specifically, a unique way to subtitle speech materials.

(I could even try to get a few more subjects if the material is ready.)

Basically, it's a translation of a specific kind, which gives much more details than typical subtitles.

Anonymous

Anonymous

Which week would you call "the first week of October"?

Eh?

Anonymous

Oct 1-3? Oct 1-7? Oct 4-10?

4:32 AM

Oh, the week 1-2-3.

Oct 1-3.

Anonymous

Thank you. Moreover, if　I get your link correctly, 2015年10月の第1週　would actually start on 10/01 (and only have 3 days), which I would not call "first week of October" in my native language — gregfqt 13 hours ago

Anonymous

I wonder what language that is :-)

I think I might call Oct 4-10 the first full week of October.

Anonymous

Sure.

Anonymous

I think both your responses are pretty reasonable :-)

4:33 AM

What's gregfqt's first language?

Anonymous

I don't know!

LOL

Anonymous

A lot of people on Stack Exchange don't want to volunteer that information.

Anonymous

And that's okay. They don't have to.

Anonymous

I have to admit, though, I'm pretty curious :-)

4:34 AM

Hehe! I share the same curiosity. :D

Anonymous

Japanese has 旬（じゅん）, which are (more or less) ten-day periods.

Anonymous

上旬　１日〜１０日
中旬　１１日〜２０日
下旬　２１日〜

That's quite unique, I think.

Anonymous

We don't usually talk about thirds of the month in English.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I think it's borrowed from Chinese

4:38 AM

Oh, I don't think Thai has a similar expression.

But we do have a word for two weeks.

Anonymous

shàngxún, zhōngxún, xiàxún

Anonymous

are 上旬, 中旬, and 下旬 in Mandarin

Anonymous

In Japanese they're じょうじゅん・ちゅうじゅん・げじゅん

Oh, that makes sense (in Mandarin).

But was the Chinese calendar in the old days Gregorian?

> The Chinese calendar is a lunisolar calendar which arranges the year, month and day number upon the astronomical date. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_calendar)

Anonymous

I think they used a lunar calendar

4:41 AM

So, it's probably about 28 days a month.

Anonymous

I don't know when those terms first came to be used

Ah, I got even the idea of 28 days a month wrong!

> It takes 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes and 3 seconds for the Moon to complete one lunar month. (universetoday.com/20053/lunar-month)

Anonymous

Henshall says that ten days was a standard unit of time in ancient China

Anonymous

One 旬 was one 'cycle of days' (勹 cycle of 日 days)

I wonder how they ended up with the idea of ten days in the first place. I think a period of 14-15 days is more natural.

Anonymous

4:44 AM

Older forms of 勹 seem to show an arm circling around the sun:

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't know! :-)

@snailboat Almost astronomical!

Anonymous

For some reason, arms in ancient Chinese tended to have three fingers :-)

勹 looks more like just a radical, rather than a meaningful character, to me.

Anonymous

4:45 AM

It is a radical

@snailboat Oh, it could be a dragon!

Anonymous

But you can look at the older forms of characters to see what they represented

Anonymous

In this case, 勹 looks like it used to be an arm

nods

Anonymous

左 'left' has an example of an arm:

Anonymous

4:47 AM

Anonymous

And 右 'right':

Anonymous

Left and right arms :-)

It's curious that the two smaller parts aren't identical. :-)

Anonymous

You mean 工 and 口?

4:48 AM

Yes.

Anonymous

The left hand is doing some kind of work.

That's even curiouser!

Back to the idea of how we should learn a second language. I think it's hard to conduct a trial like clinical trials (and I doubt some clinical trials). In one way or another, it's quite like an economic policy. It's hard to say which policy works better, because we can't try it, undo it, and retry another policy on the same subject (or country in the case of policies).

Anonymous

Yeah, I think it's a really hard subject to actually study scientifically.

Anonymous

And if you do an observational study and find that good language learners tend to have behaviors X, Y, and Z, who's to say that all of those behaviors are actually causing them to learn effectively?

That's very true indeed.

Anonymous

4:59 AM

Maybe X and Y are effective, and they just happen to do Z because people talk about it all the time on language learning websites, and good language learners tend to be the ones who get really into that sort of thing and try that stuff :-)

Also, I do believe that there are some methods that give a better result at first and draw us back later. So, how long a time-span should we follow the subject?

(I've seen this in both badminton and swimming. Some players advance so fast at first, and then are basically stuck at that level for the rest of their lives.)

Good Morning!

Morning!

How are you all?

We're good, thanks! How are you?

Crazy Ninja

5:07 AM

Fine :)

BTW, @snailboat just won the first election on Japanse.SE. :-)

Crazy Ninja

Ohhh.. Congratz !!! @snailboat

great power comes with great responsibility :P

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That happens in guitar, too!

Anonymous

@CrazyNinja Thanks for the reminder :-)

@snailboat A-ha!

Anonymous

5:15 AM

@DamkerngT. Sometimes you have to teach people to go back to the basics in order for them to improve.

nods -- It's almost always the case I've observed that when someone got stuck later it means they got some basic stuff wrong.

Which didn't matter to them much at first.

For example, a badminton player can hold the racket the wrong way and play just fine at the basic up to near advanced levels.

It's almost impossible for some of these players to change their grips later.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's really hard to fight muscle memory.

Indeed.

Anonymous

Most people, on guitar, have too much tension. They press stuff too hard and keep their muscles clenched tight.

Anonymous

And they're constantly fighting that tension while they play.

Anonymous

5:22 AM

And if they try to play something they perceive as 'difficult', they tense up even more!

That's almost like badminton!

Anonymous

It's difficult to relearn that sort of muscle memory once it's ingrained.

Anonymous

It's so easy to tense up without even realizing it.

Anonymous

Also, that tension can come from a lot of different places.

Anonymous

Just sitting in a bad position with bad posture, playing without a strap and balancing the instrument poorly, tensing up your whole body to try to keep it in place . . .

Anonymous

5:25 AM

People don't realize how important your whole body is.

Oh, that sounds even more like in badminton! Some players tense their upper arms even more in long strokes, when they should focus on their wrists.

@snailboat I wish they taught the subject "How to use and care your body" better in school. :D

No wonder yoga and macrobiotics are popular nowadays.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That's a great idea :-)

Anonymous

I just thought of another example.

Anonymous

About how you use your body and guitar.

Haha!

Anonymous

5:34 AM

There's a kind of chord where you put your finger across several strings (or sometimes all of the strings) and hold them all down with that finger.

Anonymous

People really struggle to learn how to do this.

Oh, wait, you were serious, right? Sorry. I see now.

Anonymous

Oh! Sorry, I must have said something confusing :-)

@snailboat Oh, I remember that F chord!

Anonymous

Ah, that's the physically most difficult barre there is! Usually it's best to start by teaching on a higher fret where it takes less pressure :-)

Anonymous

5:35 AM

But okay, you know what I mean.

Anonymous

Imagine a really big guy, over six feet tall, big muscles, who has trouble doing one of these chords.

Anonymous

He's really strong, but he's struggling just to push the string down!

Hehe! I can think of that guy!

Anonymous

Now imagine a little girl, starting to learn to play guitar, and it's a full-size guitar and she seems really tiny in comparison.

Anonymous

But she can play the chords just fine :-)

Anonymous

5:37 AM

What's the difference between them?

Giving the right and wrong amount of force at the right and wrong places?

Anonymous

Yeah, the big guy is just trying to clench it with his hand, using brute force to push the string down. It's physically hard to do!

Anonymous

The little girl is letting some of the weight of her arm pull her hand down on the strings.

Ahh

Anonymous

If she takes her thumb off the back of the neck, she can keep playing the chord.

Anonymous

5:39 AM

Because she doesn't have a death grip on the poor guitar. She isn't squeezing it to death :-)

Hehe! I guess the big guy could even break the guitar if he really wanted to. :D

Anonymous

She's holding the guitar properly, so it's anchored in place in at least three points by her body, so the guitar stays in place while she uses the weight of her arm on the string. No more force than needed.

Anonymous

But he's not holding it properly, and if he takes his thumb off the back of the neck, the guitar goes flying because he's pushing it so hard with his finger :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Poor guitar! :-)

Anonymous

I think a lot of these things, just about anyone can learn to do.

Anonymous

5:42 AM

People try and fail and they come up with all sorts of reasons.

Anonymous

Like people say their fingers are too big, so they hit the other strings.

Anonymous

(As they get better, they find their fingers magically shrink ;-)

Anonymous

Or their fingers are too small, and they just can't reach!

Anonymous

(As they get better, they find their fingers magically grow!)

Oh, that's very true!

Anonymous

5:42 AM

Or they just don't have the strength to play guitar. And so on.

Anonymous

But it's all about the fundamental ways you use your body.

I was someone who got too big and too short fingers. :D

Anonymous

Hee

People actually use both, I think: goo.gl/zI9MI5 — snailboat 2 hours ago

Maybe I wasn't clear in my comments that either is possible.

Anonymous

Oh! Um. It was intended as a comment on Maulik's answer

Anonymous

5:54 AM

I haven't read all of the comments yet

Q: What should I do when I see a member who leaves typos, etc. after editing?

Ah, I didn't mean that your comment was for me.

I read your comment and thought about what I wrote.

It's a good example that shows how the diamond and the rep points can have strong influence on the votes.

StackExchange

5:38 PM

0

I am not going to name him or link the post as I don't think it is fair. I didn't notice the problems until the day before yesterday. The problem is whenever he edits a post, there remain problems, i.e. typos left, grammatical mistakes, inconsistency in editing, etc. He even touches perfectl...

discussion

Anonymous

6:11 PM

Aww, @MaulikV, you used the ^-^ smiley in your latest meta post :-) That one's cute!

Q: Differences between "while" and "when"

(0:

Good evening, Snails!

1

Every single day while I sit to write, I am to think what I will write. Every single day when I sit to write, I am to think what I will write. From while and when, which will you prefer and why? If it is possible, please say another word that can used instead of while and when in this case.

word-choice

"Every single day while I sit to write, I am to think what I will write." - probably not even grammatical... I'm not sure. Wouldn't it be better with while I'm sitting to write..

Anonymous

Good morning, Kettle o' Copper! :-)

6:27 PM

@snailboat How do you feel today? All well?

Anonymous

I'm pretty good! I'm having leftover yakisoba :-)

Nice! I have a freshly-made kettle of kasha, but not having it yet. (0:

Anonymous

I'll make an attempt at describing the lexical aspect of sit.

Anonymous

① An achievement verb (dynamic, non-durative), expressing the transition from standing to sitting position.

Anonymous

② (marginally) expressing the same thing, but duratively.

6:31 PM

I read that portion of H&P, but have already forgotten it. (0:

Anonymous

③ A stative verb, expressing the state of being in a sitting position.

Anonymous

④ An activity verb (dynamic, durative), expressing the same thing but with some dynamic meaning added to it (e.g. limited time, focus on current state)

Just A-Sitting and A-Rocking

Anonymous

That's my first attempt.

Anonymous

② is marginal because it doesn't take very much time to change from standing to sitting position, so I think it's usually conceptualized as a single point in time.

6:34 PM

Yes, "every single day while I sit to write" as a slow-motion lowering of one's butt in the chair is odd. (pardon me French)

Anonymous

Haha!

(0:

Anonymous

This aspect stuff is hard. I've always thought so.

"And often, when I sit me down to rhyme, \\ These will in throngs before my mind intrude"

Hi, @snailboat, @CopperKettle ... I actually find aspect a lot easier than tense and modality!

Anonymous

6:37 PM

In Japanese, suwaru 'sit' expresses the meaning in ①〜②, a change in state from standing to sitting, so suwari-nagara 'while I sit' is pretty marginal :-)

Anonymous

@StoneyB Oh, that stuff is hard, too!

Good evening, Stoney!

Anonymous

@StoneyB What do you think about sit?

@snailboat I can only do it so long, or my back gets stiff and my neck starts to hurt!

@snailboat In Russian, we have two morphologically distinct forms - sazhus (I'm transitioning from any other position to the sitting one) and sizhu (I'm sitting)

6:41 PM

. . . Seriously, I don't think anybody uses sit much in senses ① and ② any more. It's almost always sit down.

Indeed, "when I sit me down to rhyme".

Perzackly.

Snails is having a Thanksgiving breakfast that can't be beaten, since its Japanese. (0:

Anonymous

Yakisoba〜♪

@CopperKettle Interesting. English and German distinguish intransitive and transitive-causative (sit / set) the same way. And lie / lay.

6:45 PM

@StoneyB sit / sat?

Anonymous

Japanese does that too – suwaru (sit) and sueru (set). (The /w/ disappeared from suweru.)

@CopperKettle No, that's a tense distinction. "I sit on the table" / "I set the book on the table".

@StoneyB Ah, in Russian the transitive-causative is sazhu (I make someone or someting to assume the sitting position)

Sazhus' is sazhu + s', with s' standing for sebya (myself) = I make myself assume the sitting posture

(there's a soft sign after the s)

Anonymous

I have lots of cabbage left over after making yakisoba.

In vernacular English, however, they get mixed up a lot. "Walk right in, set right down."

Anonymous

6:49 PM

I didn't realize just how much cabbage one head of cabbage was.

@snailboat Mmm ... coleslaw!

Anonymous

I've also got leftover bean sprouts.

Some healthy food!

I invented a new coleslaw last week: limejuice instead of vinegar.

Should taste nice!

6:52 PM

It was. But it wanted crunch. Maybe diced raw carrot?

the four deuces - white port lemon juice

Or white port. (0:

►

I thought this was Zappa's song..

A: How do we know when we use an article with uncountable nouns?

Wikipedia says "Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention covered the song in 1969, releasing it in 1970 on the album Burnt Weeny Sandwich. This version was both a satire of and a homage to the original, and Zappa has conceded admiringly that he could not have written a song any more absurd."

Anonymous

7:27 PM

0

An utmost importance is not natural English. It would not surprise me if the author of your example is not a native speaker. The issue of English having count nouns and mass (or non-count) nouns is a poor way to talk about nouns in English. A better way is to say that nouns can be used as cou...

Anonymous

This answer has received 2 downvotes.

Anonymous

I think it deserves upvotes, personally.

Anonymous

So I upvoted it :-)

Ah, the answer must be posted after my edit!

Hello, everyone!

Anonymous

Good morning!

Anonymous

7:29 PM

It's Yakisoba Day here in the U.S.

@DamkerngT. Good evening!

Oh, enjoy your yakisoba!

Good evening/morning!

@snailboat I upvoted Cookie Monster's for the sheer enthusiasm of it. (0:

@snailboat Is Yakisoba Day real?

Arigato-Giving Day!

Anonymous

7:31 PM

@DamkerngT. It's real to me!

@CopperKettle That answer is quite interesting. Unfortunately, I think the information is not quite accurate. (I haven't vote anything yet.)

Anonymous

ありがとう arigatō 'Thanks!' is an interjection, 感謝 kansha is a noun meaning 'thanks; gratitude'

@DamkerngT. I agree.. it's a bit off the mark. (0:

"Besides being used as a stand-alone module, (the module's name) can work in the combination with our module."

Anonymous

'Everything is correct' versus 'nothing is relevant' ← Geoffrey Pullum arguing against a certain dichotomy . . .

I'm not sure that importance really can't be used countably, given the context in that book.

in Language Overflow, 2 days ago, by Damkerng T.

> He searched into the notable particularities of all kingdoms, republics and their churches, with all the importances that hung upon them.

(From OED1)

7:35 PM

No, I mean the word combination could be repeated in any context. In the combination with/In combination with are both broadly used. — Rathony 3 mins ago

I'm not sure that we can really use in combination and in the combination in free variation.

Anonymous

Information used to be used countably.

Anonymous

People talked about informations all the time. Now it's strange. Why?

It's not okay in today's English, I think.

But that book seems to be in an old style.

Anonymous

So Thanksgiving is 感謝祭 kansha-sai (lit. 'gratitude festival')

@snailboat I never knew that. Interesting.

@snailboat Nice!

Anonymous

7:39 PM

> Many informations are daily brought in to the two Committees about the Fire of London.

I don't agree with this:

I think it is always better to identify the source of the sentence (who wrote it? what is the link?, etc.) before posting any answer. It is very tricky when handling such nouns as they are heavily context-dependent. If it had been written by the OP, the question should be considered as proof-reading request IMHO. At least the OP must explain where/how the sentence would be used in what circumstances. — Rathony 2 mins ago

@snailboat I might set my own sencha-sai some day. :-)

(Green Tea Day)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Yay! :-)

Hmm... (trying to catch up with that thread)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. By the way, the character 祭（さい） 'festival' can also be 祭（まつり） 'festival'

Anonymous

7:41 PM

In that case, it can optionally be written with an okurigana, like 祭り

Anonymous

That way you can see the word まつり peeking out from behind the kanji, so you know which reading it is :-)

A-ha!

What is the source of the sentence? Did you write it yourself? What is the relationship between the module (being used as a stand-alone module) and our module? — Rathony 2 mins ago

What's this all about? I don't think every poster should write in impeccable English or mention sources right and left.

I'm pretty sure that the OP wrote it themselves. (I also think that the OP is not a real new user. :-)

Hmm... I'm thinking that in (the) integration with could be okay.

@DamkerngT. I thought that the use of the would impart integration with som e tangible sense.

7:51 PM

> In PeopleSoft Absence Management, you need to define which absence takes can be used in the integration with Microsoft Outlook. (Oracle)

Anonymous

You – and I mean generic you, not you you – should always include context when asking any question about articles because they're essentially pragmatic markers, giving information about the information status of what they mark, a type of contextual meaning.

@DamkerngT. Oh, so in the integration is a good phrase..

I think it's less common, but if they really mean "integration", it could be okay.

@snailboat The bold effect strikes again!

Anonymous

Sometimes we can answer questions about articles without context, but those are the exception rather than the rule.

@CopperKettle That guy . . .

7:55 PM

@DamkerngT. I wonder if this in the integration has the same exact meaning as the OP wants.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Good past-midnight, Muhammad!

I wonder that too!

-27

A: CyberBullying on SE

You brought it on yourself. You have not edited nor deleted your answer here and this answer is even worse. How many grammatical mistakes do you think there are? Is it even answering the question? Your explanation about "each" and "both" were so exceptional that I had to point it out to improve...

That guy needs to take a break for a while.

@CopperKettle pre-midnight.

Anonymous

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. We can leave that sort of thing to moderators.

@snailboat Well, the system works!

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Wow, some drama there, but too many characters (in all senses of the word)

Anonymous

7:57 PM

ELU meta has more fun than ELL meta:

Anonymous

@Mitch: But not mufflers. Everyone at EL&U must continue to speak freely and without the inhibiting obstruction of excessively large scarves. — Sven Yargs 23 hours ago

Anonymous

@CopperKettle I'm doing well today, thank you for asking :-)

Anonymous

I keep forgetting to respond to messages people send me.

@snailboat You are doing double well then! (0: Double-plus good. (0:

@CopperKettle What I'm trying to say is that they might not have been in their best mood when posting that comment you mentioned.

7:59 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I see. (0:

Anonymous

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I think that is how that user normally is.

@snailboat Eh?

(Japanese)

Anonymous

えーーっ!?

Anonymous

なんですって！？

?!!!

!

Anonymous

8:01 PM

translate: なんですって!?

Anonymous

(from Japanese) What is!

Anonymous

Haha!

Anonymous

The translate function is so funny.

Anonymous

You should try it out.

Anonymous

translate: 代謝とは、生命の維持のために有機体が行う、外界から取り入れた無機物や有機化合物を素材として行う一連の合成や化学反応のことであり、新陳代謝の略称である。

Anonymous

8:02 PM

(from Japanese) Synthesis of a set as material introduced from the outside world, do to preserve the life of the organism metabolism and inorganic and organic compounds and chemical reactions of the metabolism of.

Anonymous

That's a definition of 代謝 (metabolism) in Japanese. It was not translated very well :-)

@snailboat GT translates it as "What was that" for me!

@snailboat That will do. That's how 90% of folks understand it anyway. (0:

Hi, thank you all for commenting, I’m talking about technical terms that’s why I would like to use -integration-. I’ve googled it and it has more than million findings and it is for the IT sector. Considering the doubts about the article usage, I’m still struggling with it (because my language doesn't have articles at all) :). When I use 'the' in this sentence, it was to point out that it can be used in this special kind of integration between the two modules (just these two). — Nina 5 mins ago

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's a stereotyped phrase used in fiction when people are shocked at something someone said. It's like "What did you say!?"

8:05 PM

Hmm... now the OP sentence seems to make sense.

Anonymous

です can be だ and って can be と.

Anonymous

なんだと!?

But it's probably better as: Besides being used as a stand-alone module, (the module's name) can ~~work~~ also be used in the integration with our module.

Anonymous

Lit. 'what' + copula + quotative particle

@DamkerngT. To me, integration is closer to "a process of integration" in meaning, and the integration would mean this particular process of integration. I could be wrong.

Anonymous

8:07 PM

I think in real life people don't usually say it unless they're being silly :-)

Integration.

@snailboat I think I've heard なんだよ more often. (Not sure if it's spelled like that.)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That's a different phrase.

Or just なに (nani), which sounds coincidentally like our OP's name (Nina)!

Anonymous

何だよ and 何だと are both grammatical Japanese, but they're used in very different situations.

8:10 PM

@snailboat Oh, I see! The lit. meanings are close, but they're used differently!

Anonymous

何 as an utterance by itself is very common too :-)

Anonymous

Note: 何 is /nani/, but the final vowel drops out before /t/ and /d/, so you get /naɴda/ rather than /nanida/. It sometimes drops out before /k/, so you have both /naɴka/ and /nanika/

Anonymous

So 何だ is なんだ but 何 by itself is usually なに

@CopperKettle I think in the integration with could be state-like, like "in combination with", but for integrated modules.

@DamkerngT. Maybe you should pen an answer of your own. (0:

Anonymous

8:12 PM

An example with /t/ is なんと