The Cornell Box - 2015-08-04

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5:50 PM

Welcome to chat for: Computer Graphics

2

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teh internets is made of catz

6:11 PM

so hm, this beta has just opened ?

Martin Büttner

yep

teh internets is made of catz

and it's in the stage where members should ask example questions before being officialized ?

Chris Jester-Young

@tehinternetsismadeofcatz I'd focus on asking real questions, not "example" questions.

2

teh internets is made of catz

that's the impression i got from reading something on area 51 iirc. nevermind

Chris Jester-Young

@tehinternetsismadeofcatz Hahaha, the example questions are for the Area 51 proposals themselves. The sites should use real questions.

teh internets is made of catz

6:24 PM

OK ! thanks

NoviceInDisguise

6:38 PM

Hi guys!

Wow, 7 questions in 35 minutes! This site really seems to be taking off. :D

NoviceInDisguise

Yeah! Where can we view the site scope in detail?

I got the first closed question :D

I shouldn't be proud of that I guess :P

Chris Jester-Young

3

Should questions related to frameworks be on topic? For instance, if I have a very particular question based on OpenFrameworks, should it be off or on topic?

Chris Jester-Young

Since this is in private beta, your comments on meta really help shape the site's form!

@Ranveer Ask on meta!

6:47 PM

@ChrisJester-Young bah! Too late. It's already there :D

Chris Jester-Young

Hehehehe.

This room should have a question feed

NoviceInDisguise

^^

Chris Jester-Young

@EthanBierlein Feel free to set one up, though be prepared to remove it if it gets too spammy. ;-)

Oh, I'm not a room owner, so I can't put a feed here.

Martin Büttner

6:49 PM

@NoviceInDisguise determining what isn't on-topic is also an important part of forming a community ;)

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner Will you do the honours? (Only if you want to.)

Martin Büttner

sure, will do.

I'd suggest an overlay feed (instead of a bot posting one-boxed messages), because at least right now the question volume will probably be quite large.

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner Okay, this sounds really noob, but what's an overlay feed? :-)

Ugh. Overlay feeds look, eww.

Martin Büttner

yeah they do... :/

6:53 PM

Beside, in The 2nd Monitor we use a onebox feed and chat only fills up when nobody is talking

Martin Büttner

right... should I set up both meta and main?

Yeah

Martin Büttner

@ChrisJester-Young Mathematica chat has one set up if you wanna spend some time there until a question is posted.

Martin Büttner has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner Thanks!

6:58 PM

Martin Büttner has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

Martin Büttner

Okay, bot feeds set up... someone ping me when they go berserk.

Chris Jester-Young

;-)

Martin Büttner

@ChrisJester-Young well or you clean it up :P

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner What, by turning it into an overlay feed? ;-)

Martin Büttner

no I meant when the feeds catch up on the existing questions in a couple of minutes and spam them all at once.

Chris Jester-Young

7:01 PM

Oh, I see, just nuking the torrent of messages.

There it went...

NoviceInDisguise

XD

That is a little bit of a clutter

@NoviceInDisguise just a bit, kinda disappointed that my meta post didnt show lol

I am torn between the YouTube embedding, what do you guys think?

NoviceInDisguise

You can always remove it right?

Well should we enable it or not? meta.computergraphics.stackexchange.com/questions/12/…

Martin Büttner

7:08 PM

10 messages deleted

NoviceInDisguise

That looks better

Poof go the posts

Some of the posts from the Area51 discussions seem like they really belong in the meta section, such as discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/questions/16948/… and some other perfect examples about what should be on topic.

Opinions about MathJax? meta.computergraphics.stackexchange.com/questions/18/… Personally I see they would work well for shader programming / theoretical explanations.

Recent Questions - Computer Graphics Meta Stack…: Should we have MathJax support?

posted on August 04, 2015 by Ethan Bierlein

As of now, I haven't seen any questions that neccesarily need MathJax formatting, but I'm sure that at some point it'll be needed. Should we have MathJax support?

Recent Questions - Computer Graphics Meta Stack…: Meta/Main rep not being linked up?

posted on August 04, 2015 by Qix

Why isn't the reputation between meta/the main site being linked up?

hi

cont. mathjax discussion: That's SE's problem.

If it's too heavy to host, they should take it down on other sites (i.e. math.SE). I doubt CG.SE is going to have much of an added overhead (we're not primarily a math site).

7:24 PM

Yes but se may decide and has decided that they dont implement certain features because you have other features.

Asked another question

They tend to want to add stuff slowly

@joojaa but mathjax is already implemented.

SE doesn't have to do anything other than enable it.

@Qix yes but they have refused to enable it for many sites

@joojaa cg.SE has a really good reason to enable it...

7:25 PM

@joojaa Really? I haven't heard of that...

OK just saying

@robobenklein I think they declined enabling it for SO due to performance overhead, but that's mainly because SO is one of the "big 3".

Martin Büttner

okay guys, I've been through this process for code golf. It's not exactly a given that they'll activate it just because you ask for it. Because there are drawbacks, not just for SE but for users as well. But if the benefits outweigh those drawbacks (which is definitely the case for a maths-heavy side like this one will be), they will certainly enable it.

I'm for it then.

Me too

Martin Büttner

7:26 PM

and I'm also sure that MathJax will not preclude YouTube embedding or anything like that, because it's a completely different system and it's not as heavy-weight as MathJax.

yes, point is they want to weigh stuff and aren't really happy if you ask for a ton of features.

Martin Büttner

the only thing that is slightly problematic with MathJax is Stack Snippets because the frequent $ arising from jQuery is in conflict with the LaTeX syntax. That can be worked around (using jQuery instead of $, or changing the MathJax delimiters), but it doesn't work as smoothly at the moment.

teh internets is made of catz

@MartinBüttner you mean drawbacks for users, performance-wise ?

Not saying 2 is much but just consider tthat asking for one well tought of wish si more likely to be accepted than a bunch o sparate things

Martin Büttner

@tehinternetsismadeofcatz well, afaik, the JavaScript for MathJax is delivered whether you need it on the page or not.

7:28 PM

@tehinternetsismadeofcatz And for serving mathjax

$(not using jQuery)

teh internets is made of catz

alright

Martin Büttner

@Qix completely off topic, but is your user name based on that old arcade game?

I am all for Mathjax i just wanted you to consider that requesting stuff has to be coordinated and done rarely.

@MartinBüttner Yes and no. Primarily yes.

@joojaa This is the first day of the stack being open. These are things we need to ask about ;)

7:31 PM

bbl, gotta charge my phone

Martin Büttner

@Qix heh. I had to chuckle when you asked the stencil buffer question, because the only time I extensively used a stencil buffer was for a Qix clone :D

@MartinBüttner That... makes me so happy.

@Qix yes offcourse just asking you need to pinpoint all the wishes and send them in one well reasoned format

Let it be known I'm nowhere near an expert, though CG has always piqued my interest and I've dabbled in it. I want to saturate myself in it more and more, hence why I'm here.

Plus I inadvertently launched CG.SE into beta so I feel like I must pay my dues.

@joojaa Which I'm sure the community mods will do apropros.

Chris Jester-Young

@joojaa Uh, actually, best to make each request a separate post.

That way, we can tag stuff [status-completed] (or [status-declined]) individually.

NoviceInDisguise

7:35 PM

How come the @[name] doesn't show up on the stars?

teh internets is made of catz

@Qix CG's probably one of the most rewarding topics in computer science

Chris Jester-Young

@NoviceInDisguise For replies, the reply target isn't considered part of the message.

@ChrisJester-Young argggg thank you for the edit.

@tehinternetsismadeofcatz It is. That, and compiler design. :D

Chris Jester-Young

@Qix Sorry, too much of an eyesore to ignore.

NoviceInDisguise

@ChrisJester-Young It always showed up as far as I knew . . . odd

teh internets is made of catz

7:36 PM

@Qix you read my mind

@ChrisJester-Young I'm halfway at my computer, halfway getting ready for the day.

Chris Jester-Young

;-)

user image

the first image ever posted into this chat, congrats

@robobenklein so honored ;D

7:37 PM

0

Q: Techniques for keeping models realistic with a low face count

The more faces you add to a model, the more realistic the model can look. While modern rendering engines can handle enormous amounts of faces, lower performance computers, with older rendering engines have a harder time handling large amounts of faces. Are there any special techniques used to de...

performance rendering models faces

NoviceInDisguise

user image

@ChrisJester-Young _

Chris Jester-Young

@NoviceInDisguise Those are not replies, those are pings.

NoviceInDisguise

d'ho

Martin Büttner

you can earn mortarboard on meta? o.O

?

Chris Jester-Young

7:42 PM

@MartinBüttner I did not know that.

Martin Büttner

to MSE!

Chris Jester-Young

;-)

Martin Büttner

28

Q: Should I really have been awarded mortarboard on a Per-site meta?

The Ask Ubuntu Town hall digest caused me to win the Mortarboard badge, yey! But wait. [Mortarboard] Hit the daily reputation cap for the first time Per-site metas don't have any reputation... I am confused :-) I know why I got the badge. Should I have? Let me rephrase. Is this behavior ...

bug status-bydesign per-site-meta daily-reputation-badges

Chris Jester-Young

Nice. :-D

meta.computergraphics.stackexchange.com/questions/18/…

Dammit.

@joojaa ^ Feature requests do not have some sort of quota.

If it's a sensible request, it will be implemented.

XD Which gets a stake and which gets a steak?

7:45 PM

1

Q: Does the original Perlin noise ever have any advantage over Simplex noise?

Perlin noise is one of the most popular procedural noise functions. Perlin later developed Simplex noise which improves on some of the shortcomings of Perlin noise, notably its inefficiency in higher dimensions and directional artefacts (Wikipedia lists five advantages of Simplex noise). Still, P...

noise procedural-generation

Chris Jester-Young

@joojaa Hence your comment about bundling up requests into a single post is pointless.

In fact, if you bundle them up like that, your post is likely to get closed.

@ChrisJester-Young no they dont but human nature has

Chris Jester-Young

@joojaa I'm just telling you straight up, you're more likely to get all your requests implemented if you use separate posts for each one, than if you bundle them up.

@ChrisJester-Young ok. I can read.

@NewMainPosts I raised a VTC on this question. It should be discussed. It asks about something commonly used in CG but doesn't specifically pertain to it. Thoughts?

Chris Jester-Young

7:50 PM

@Qix Should be discussed means you post a meta post, right, rather than voting to close?

@joojaa think of meta sites like a support ticket system. While not completely analogous, would you create one ticket with multiple tasks to be completed?

@ChrisJester-Young Well as per the general (current) consensus I felt it was off topic. Though it could be reworded and may benefit from a discussion.

@Qix yes but more tickets more time to handle.

Chris Jester-Young

@joojaa Nope, same amount of time, for our workflow.

@ChrisJester-Young ^ exactly. More tickets usually speeds things up, tbh.

@ChrisJester-Young do you guys use Jira over there?

perhaps, but if you have a ton of them not so much

Chris Jester-Young

7:52 PM

@Qix We use Trello.

@ChrisJester-Young oh xD duh. prays to the shrine of Joel.

Ah trello was nice for me in the beginning

Now i dont like it anymore

Chris Jester-Young

@Qix Lol.

Recent Questions - Computer Graphics Meta Stack…: Are questions about procedural noise on topic?

posted on August 04, 2015 by Martin Büttner

I posted a question about procedural noise (one of two example questions about noise from the Definition phase which received 10 upvotes), and got a close vote "because it doesn't pertain to computer graphics programming specifically". So a meta discussion it is... Are questions about procedural graphics generation in general and noise functions in particular on top…

@Qix Does your answer to the meta that mean that asking about bezier splines is out of topic. Theya re used in other fields such as mathematics and engineering too

Martin Büttner

8:01 PM

^

@joojaa that depends; does the question regard how they're implemented in a graphical context?

Does it relate to code behind them? Or is it purely mathematical theory? The latter would be more on-topic at Math.SE.

teh internets is made of catz

Shouldn't it be implicit, on a CG site ... ?

@tehinternetsismadeofcatz What do you mean?

Argh...

teh internets is made of catz

I see your point with pure mathematical questions. But someone coming on CG SE asking about pros and cons of such technique as Martin's question, feels pretty obvious to me that it's in the context of grpahic related computing

Martin Büttner

8:03 PM

I'm not sure that's the relevant argument. What's important is that it is commonly (probably even mainly?) used in computer graphics, and that a community of computer graphics experts will likely be the perfect people to answer a question about procedural noise. (And similarly, an answer about procedural noise will also be useful largely to CG programmers in the future.)

3

You should relax a bit in that one bin mentality, the overlap in stackexhange is far too great. If you dont allow any overlap then it wont work. Its better to let things lie where they are asking if they dont clearly go outside of the bounds.

If they are within the bounds they shoul be let alone

Well, at least I got my first "Leave Open" review. Yay! ;-)

Noise certainly fits that bill, just not that question

teh internets is made of catz

@MartinBüttner you have the right words

Now martin is a star :)

8:06 PM

@MartinBüttner Granted, why not re-word it to be more graphics programming oriented in general? Blurring the lines of scope is a big reason why other betas fail.

teh internets is made of catz

he already was

Martin Büttner

@joojaa @Qix I'm not exactly sure how the two of you want me to reword it. Choosing between the two noise functions is a problem encountered when working with procedural graphics generation. I think the scope is narrow enough to allow for a clear (short) list of pros and cons, which will help CG programmers make this decision when they have to. Adding one specific use case would likely make any answers less useful for future visitors.

I think we should consider implicitly assuming people do stuff in good faith and that unless there is a CLEAR indication otherwise its graphics related if it can be.

Martin Büttner

^ Yeah that. I can ask about how to do X in software commonly used for programming on SO. This includes text editors. I don't need to justify each time that I want to use the text editor for the purpose of programming, that's just assumed.

@MartinBüttner for what its worth there are situations when perlin noise is used mainly for legacy reasons. Or because the paricular implementation has has been with a lot of work been statistically shown to average out to 0.

8:11 PM

I might be narrow-minded by coming from that field, but when I hear "Perlin Noise" the first thing I think is "procedural graphics" really. You don't really need to stretch your imagination or good faith to make that question related to the site's topic.

Martin Büttner

that sounds like a good (partial?) answer :)

But that may be too specific

Martin Büttner

I also think there's legal issues with higher dimensions of simplex noise

because Perlin has a patent on higher-D simplex noise

LOL

Algorithms cant be patented in my jurisdiction

Martin Büttner

well, what can I say

8:14 PM

That may be important to some users... not me tough

teh internets is made of catz

user image

worth while for the answer

Gotta go

0

Q: How can I debug what is being rendered to a Frame Buffer Object in OpenGL?

I have a point cloud that is being rendered to the screen. Each point has its position and color as well as an ID. I was asked to render the IDs for each point to a texture so I created a FBO and attached two textures, one for color and one for depth. I created the necessary VAO and VBO for this ...

For the record, I answered another scope-related question.

8:44 PM

Recent Questions - Computer Graphics Meta Stack…: Do we want Stack Snippets?

posted on August 04, 2015 by Martin Büttner

While we're discussing which optional features this SE needs, let's get the discussion about Stack Snippets out of the way. Stack Snippets allow you to run JavaScript code right inside a post, which is great for small demos. I'm not sure how big the benefit would be here on CG.SE (due to the limitation to JavaScript), but I could imagine some great answers which con…

1 hour later…

9:56 PM

1

Q: Why is thread safety such a huge deal for Graphics APIs?

Both Vulkan and DirectX12 are claimed to be usable in a thread-safe manner. People seem to be excited about that. Why is this considered such a huge feature? The "real" processing gets thrown over the memory bridge on a separate processing unit anyway. Also if it is so big, why is it not until...

vulkan directx12 multi-threading

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Aug '154

The Cornell Box

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