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12:02 AM
@Murta @Mr.Wizard The question remains: How efficient is it to use replace with an association. I mean, it's a hashed structure and when you replace something, it has to look at all values just like in a normal list. I would be very cautious before I'd use this.
 
12:38 AM
@Sjoerd, yeah, there are a lot of places here that can receive from Western Union. Even the pawnshop holding my computer has that capability. :D
"I think it's safe to say that I have some experience with using ParametricPlot3D[]" I asked if you tested the code on non-cloud.. From the fact you didn't answer, I'll assume No. — ChrisJJ 5 hours ago
Can somebody with version 10.2 (to be sure) be kind enough to show the poor guy that his claim of Cloud specificity is off-base?
 
1:34 AM
@Guesswhoitis. It is exactly the same on my Mac as the OP shows on the Cloud. The OP obviously has no evidence that the problem is limited to the Cloud. I considered responding in a comment, but things seems to be getting hot and I didn't want to fan the flames.
 
1:50 AM
Here is a funny thing. IntegerDigits of a negative number should give all digits with negative signs. Instead it gives them with positive sign. Any idea why?
It is documented as such, but it is weird.
 
@Michael, okay, thanks for the confirmation. Skepticism is fine, but sometimes it's just ridiculous…
 
@Guesswhoitis. I would ignore him about this, if I were you. (In fact, that is exactly what I decided to do myself.) He seems to have some sort of axe to grind, unjustifiably so in my opinion.
 
@Oleksandr, yeah, IntegerDigits[n] has always been IntegerDigits[Abs[n]] in fact, for a long time. I don't know why either. :)
 
@Guesswhoitis. it is annoying. It breaks my Hamming distance calculation in the case of big integers.
 
@Guesswhoitis. Same behavior (M, not OP) in V9 & V10. I had upvoted your comment. I'm thinking of suggesting the OP try out the Wolfram community site. No closure, no rep, etc. The OP might find it more comfortable.
 
1:55 AM
I might start ignoring the poor guy if need be, but I do have the responsibility as a bearer of the diamond; I don't like using my powers, but I certainly will if pressed.
@Oleksandr, I guess the obvious workaround is to isolate the sign (bit) first before anything else…
 
well, I did spike his guns a couple more times in meta. But, I did try to establish how he was perceived, why we reacted as we did, and to give us the benefit of the doubt.
and, hopefully, he'll take my advice and approach people here, first. Instant feed back is useful.
 
@Michael, I upvoted your question; I have to wonder why they fiddled with the lighting model… "if it ain't broke…"
 
@Guesswhoitis. At first I was just confused until I realized that it wasn't working right.
 
@Guesswhoitis. it is not quite so straightforward. What is the Hamming distance of -7 and 8, for instance? They are one's complement of each other. If you calculate it one way, you get 0. That is surely wrong. On the other hand, to calculate it a different way, the answer is 62. Also wrong. It seems risky to compare positive with negative numbers in this way. Or at least the answer is not well defined without some further assumptions.
 
@Oleksandr, on second thought, Mathematica treats negatives as having a (infinite) two's complement representation; unless I'm missing something, that makes them outside the domain of the Hamming weight function, per se.
(see e.g. docs for the bitwise functions)
 
2:08 AM
@Guesswhoitis. a good point indeed
 
@MichaelE2 I think the v10 version is likely the correct one.
 
@rcollyer But shouldn't you be able to override the Lighting setting with Show?
 
The "override with Show[]" was also the behavior I was accustomed to. If this was fiddled with, I think it was a bad choice.
 
@MichaelE2 hmm. did not execute your code, so likely my confusion. give me a sec.
 
0
Q: Wouldn't it be nice if 'duplicate' didn't falsely claim 'duplicate'?

ChrisJJE.g. here https://archive.is/M5q8M "This question already has an answer here" True, and useful. "marked as duplicate by Mr.Wizard♦ 4 hours ago" It is not a duplicate. "This question has been asked before" Er, not at the instance cited. What's true is "A similar question has been asked before...

 
2:21 AM
here we go again ...
 
*sigh*, if I wanted split hairs, I'd switch to generic shampoo.
 
@rcollyer he's tilting at windmills. He should find something more productive to do with his life, that people might actually respect him for. Like shouting at small children to keep off the grass.
 
I hate to say something ugly, but it makes no sense. The sun must be going down. I take it that the link is a shortened one.
In Plato's Republic there's a wonderful scene where Socrates warns not to teach people to argue logically at too young an age. They just end up yapping like puppies.
 
I suspect that the use of an archival link is his way of making sure we don't "erase evidence" or something. This is behavior I've seen before when I was modding other fora.
@rcollyer, hehe, I like Looney Tunes. :)
 
2:27 AM
@Guesswhoitis. raising my children right, my 5 yr old loves them.
I came close to completely losing my temper for this. Oh well. You can lead people to water, but drowning them is illegal.
 
@rcollyer, make sure you expose the kids to the ones that feature a lot of classics, e.g. Rabbit of Seville. It's a sneaky way of making them like classical music. ;)
 
@Guesswhoitis. he love's kill the wabbit.
 
Okay guys… if he gets too obnoxious, please flag him so that it's official. One of the valid reasons for suspension listed is "cool down"…
@rcollyer, and if you want to teach him the concept of "meta", have him watch Duck Amuck.
 
@rcollyer I wonder what is the difference, in his mind, between diagnosing the problem and answering the question of why the behavior occurs? It seems to me that his entire argument is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 
@Guesswhoitis. love that one, too.
 
2:33 AM
@rcollyer Oops, sorry about f. Thanks for tracking it down.
 
@MichaelE2 tried to run it. had issues. fixed issues. moved on. :)
@OleksandrR. I suspect, he is of the opinion that his responsibility ends with the statement that he has a problem, not that he is a part of the process.
@MichaelE2 r1 and r2?
 
@rcollyer OK, I'll fix it. There's a cell I thought I had pasted. Sorry again.
 
@MichaelE2 it happens.
 
@rcollyer Updated now....I hope.
 
@MichaelE2 gracias
 
2:38 AM
…see, it's possible to have relaxed dialog in the course of debugging. This makes that other guy stick out more like a sore toe.
 
@rcollyer Oh, thank you for looking into it.
 
@MichaelE2 it's a side effect of giving the surfaces color
in v9, the surfaces did not have a color, in v10 they do.
Show confuses things as the Lighting in p2/p3 is added along with the surface color
in p1, this does not occur.
 
@rcollyer It seems that if I add color in V9 (PlotStyle -> {Yellow, Specularity[0]}), I still get all three plots the same...Sorry, it took me a while to understand. You mean they're riffled: Cases[p2, Lighting | GraphicsComplex, Infinity, Heads -> True]?
{GraphicsComplex, Lighting, GraphicsComplex, Lighting,
GraphicsComplex, Lighting, Lighting}
 
yes, essentially.
 
@rcollyer So there's no way to override a previous Lighting setting?
Other than ReplaceAll perhaps....
 
2:51 AM
More accurately, Cases[p2, {a__, _GraphicsGroup} :> FreeQ[{a}, Lighting], -1] gives a list of false.
 
@rcollyer That's more or less what I thought.
 
@MichaelE2 hmm. that seems like an unfortunate consequence.
 
@Oleksandr, I know that this was a very long time ago, but do you remember us discussing Savitzky-Golay? If so, have you seen the routine I had posted in main?
 
@rcollyer Yes, unfortunate. Should I report it?
 
@MichaelE2 please. Tell them to send it my way (robertc).
as the tester, that is.
 
2:54 AM
@rcollyer Okay, thanks. Feel free to answer the question, if you like.
 
The riffling is definitely not desired behavior. :) Thanks for the diagnostic help, @rcollyer.
 
@MichaelE2 sure. Tomorrow.
 
@rcollyer Fine, no hurry. And thanks again.
 
@Guesswhoitis. sure.
I find my time spent on mse is dangerous, I get ideas like this:
ClearAll[wrapFunctionBlock];
SetAttributes[wrapFunctionBlock, HoldAll];
wrapFunctionBlock[{func_Symbol, wrapper_}, body_] :=
Internal`InheritedBlock[{func}, Block[{$inFunc},
	func; (* Ensure the function is loaded *)
	Unprotect[func];
	DownValues[func] = Join[
		{HoldPattern[expr:func[args___] /; !TrueQ@$inFunc] :> Block[{$inFunc = True}, wrapper[expr, args]]}
		,
		DownValues[func]
	];
	body
]]
 
 
4 hours later…
6:51 AM
@halirutan I don't believe I understand your concern. It's only replacing values so what does hashing have to do with it? As you said it's just like a normal list, and we regularly use replacements on those. Huh?
@Guesswhoitis. Unfortunately that behavior is sometimes needed. I'd like to think we are above that here but I am not offended by being held accountable, if that's how a user sees it. Kinda funny that I identify with this fellow today; maybe its just a mood I'm in. I really hope he doesn't turn out to be a troll, but somehow I get the feeling there's more to him than that.
 
7:25 AM
@rcollyer can I take some of your time? Support is ignoring me lately so I'm not motivated to write bug reports. Here's another issue I've faced:
AngularGauge[{100, 200}, {0, 300},
 GaugeMarkers -> "DetailArrowNeedle",
 GaugeStyle -> {
   Directive[Red, Opacity[.1]],
   Blue},
 ScaleRanges -> {{0, 300}},
 ScaleRangeStyle -> {Orange}]
Opacity of the first needle affects opaticty of scalerangestyle. It won't when I switch Blue and _Directive places. I also know I can put Directive[Opacity@1] on every other style directive, just to be sure, but it's not convenient in complex cases.
I would call it a bug, or at least poor design, someone forgot to put each element in separate brackets in Graphics.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:44 AM
Is it a bug that I cannot ask CurrentValue[$FrontEnd, MessageOptions] but have to use Options[$FrontEnd, MessageOptions] ? If I recall correctly last year John Fultz said something about not using SetOptions on $FrontEnd but CurrentValue.
@rcollyer When are we getting WolframPlayer 10.2 ? Now I have to workaround the ugly fact that due to the absolutely nonsensical default option of "InsufficientVersionWarning" in MessageOptions (in PlayerPro at least) you always get a warning when opening 10.2 generaded CDF's . Sometimes I wonder if Wolfram people do actually use their own products.
 
10:27 AM
@Mr.Wizard, we can only hope he isn't…
 
 
1 hour later…
11:30 AM
@Mr.Wizard don't you think that the fact the InterpretationBox expects an Expression as a scond argument, is strange? What could be the motivation?
@RolfMertig this works: CurrentValue[MessageOptions]
 
To all of you code golfers: Succinctness is Power. Discuss. ;)
 
12:09 PM
@RolfMertig They were in testing only recently, and I'm not privy to release info. Yes, we use our own products daily, some products more than others (I live in WB and the FE), but we do eat our own dog food. An unfortunate side-effect of developing these products is we often are using the development versions, and we can sometimes miss annoying configuration issues. I'll pass this issue along, so that the release mngrs are aware of it.
@Kuba a workaround is to set ScaleRangeStyle -> {Directive[Orange, Opacity[1]}. Not ideal, but workable.
 
@rcollyer I know, I said so. :)
 
@Guesswhoitis. since teaching and having kids, I've maintained that the ability to summarize is the mark of an expert. Non-experts can't do it.
@Kuba bah! I should have read further. :P
 
@rcollyer, the ability to distill accurately and efficiently is a distinguishing mark, yes. You know, "if you can't explain it to a kid…"
 
@Guesswhoitis. when teaching the intro to physics lab, I gave my students the seemingly easy task of summarizing the day's experiment in two 5 sentence paragraphs: 1. the experiment itself, and 2. the results. Few, if any, realized how nasty of an assignment it was.
 
(That does put a crimp in my claim of being an amateur who's just playing around. :P)
 
12:15 PM
Yes, you've lost the amateur title a long time ago.
 
I hate you. :P
 
I won't tell the Olympic committee, if you won't.
 
But seriously, it's depressing to see kids struggle to even form sentences with such assignments.
 
Truly. But, I didn't feel that bad, since they were all juniors and seniors by the time they took that class.
 
…and you'd think they're supposed to know something, but it just eludes them.
 
12:19 PM
often, I've found they know it, but only very narrowly. So, that if the question comes at them from outside their experience, they can't adapt it.
which is the other mark of expertise
 
Ah, I think Feynman described a situation like that in one of his books. The students could parrot the statements from the textbooks, but were stumped when confronted with the actual situation where it's happening.
 
yes, it was in Brazil.
the system was set up so that that was guaranteed to occur.
 
Yes, that was it. (I'm far away from my books, but I'm glad my recollection was accurate.)
 
I've read those books several times. This is bad at night, trying to stifle a laugh so I don't wake my wife.
 
still night there?
 
12:24 PM
With the way they were written, why wouldn't you read them again and again? :)
 
@TheToad no, I'm on the east coast(-ish).
 
Heh, that's what I thought
 
It is night here. 20:24 to be precise.
 
So what's new on the site, apart from a few pedants?
 
for some reason the pink panther them just went through my head ...
 
12:26 PM
Ah, there's the project of systematizing bug tracking.
 
Oh yeah, saw that. That's pretty neat!
 
ilian and a few other WRI dudes are combing through the slowly.
Makes sense, as they're QA. ;)
 
we try
 
man, it's been about a year or more since the start of my activity slump
v10.2 functions are strangers to me
 
12:29 PM
Long as you're busy with important stuff and not crap, it's fine. :)
 
there's actually only about 100 new ones in 10.2 v 10.1
 
Nothing is strange. Nothing at all. :)
 
I know, but I never got to answering heavily w/ 10.x functions either (although, I was familiar with them via the beta)
@Guesswhoitis. Heh
 
@TheToad there are functions I don't know from several versions ago, so don't feel to bad.
 
Hell, I haven't ever used a version 9 function ever since I came back, but managed to answer a few questions related to 'em anyway… :D (e.g. integer sequences and AnglePath[])
 
12:31 PM
Check out the new 3D plots. I would have killed for the Slice plots while in grad school.
 
Technically I don't have a license now anymore :(
 
@Guesswhoitis. AnglePath is 10.1.
 
If I ever get to use version 10.2, I'd try the orbitals, first thing.
 
@TheToad ick. My student license expired on my home laptop, too.
 
Wait, they never expire, right?
Speaking of which, I do still have non-expiring student licenses to v7 and v8... so I suppose it's not correct to say that I don't have a license
 
12:33 PM
@TheToad they do if it is a site license
 
Oops, see, all these new functions are congealed in my brain. :D
 
and mine was tied to my university. :P
 
Either way, I have access to 10.2... the univ site license still works :P
 
@TheToad I can't use v8 anymore. It hurts my eyes on a retina display.
@TheToad perfect. :)
 
The FE does not look great on a retina display, @rcollyer?
 
12:35 PM
@Guesswhoitis. not v8, which doesn't have retina support. v9's was better. v10's is very smooth. :D
 
(Sorry, just trying to live vicariously. I haven't ever used anything with a retina display. ;))
 
it's not mine.
 
Well, access is sufficient. ;)
 
exactly.
I wish I owned one of the giant apple screens ... but I've been working on a laptop for so long, I don't know what I would do with the space.
 
Watch Blu-Ray? :D
 
12:40 PM
no, unfortunately.
don't have any blu-ray disks.
time to get something done, today.
 
@rcollyer I sent it in. The case number is [CASE:3394574]. Did you see Mr.Wizard's answer yet?
 
1:35 PM
@Kuba But this is the same as CurrentValue[EvaluationNotebook[], MessageOptions]. The so-called documentation of CurrentValue claims that $FrontEnd is a typical object that can be used ... Uh well ...
@rcollyer @rcollyer Yes, that's what I mean. Outside perspective missing. So, ... do you have a WB 3.x (plugin) which actually works for generating documenatation when used with 10.2 ? Some days ago I tried to update the docs of my Shorcuts` package and failed.
 
1:57 PM
@RolfMertig I've never generated documentation, so I couldn't tell you if it works or not.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:08 PM
-2
Q: Wouldn't it be nice if the Question form accorded with the forum scope?

ChrisJJhttp://mathematica.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic says Mathematica Stack Exchange is for users of the software Mathematica developed by Wolfram Research, as well as related products like gridMathematica, Wolfram Workbench, Player (Pro), and the CDF Player. but http://mathematica.stackexchange...

 
Ayyy…
 
its remarkable there hasn't been more cases like this yet
 
@chuy I think the difference is that most users are interested mainly or solely in asking or answering good and relevant questions, not complaining about every aspect of the way the site is designed and organized.
 
The last case I remember was this guy on math.SE who took the rules way too literally and was wondering why he was getting downvoted a lot…
…eventually, after much friction, he had to be suspended for a year or so. I hope we would not have to resort to a nuclear strategy.
 
he/sje is also carpet bombing Wolfram Community with similar complaints.
 
3:22 PM
"Wouldn't it be nice" if users would spend their lives doing something productive, instead of tiresome agitation? If these things really bother him as much as the flood of questions suggest, it will only result in raising his blood pressure and harming his health.
2
 
If they had a better tone to their requests I am quite sure the reception would be very different
 
Oh, he's screwing WC too? That's a shame… who mods there, BTW?
 
@OleksandrR. preach :)
 
some people love to start dropping fire bombs
 
@Guesswhoitis. Vitaly ... I guess :D
 
3:24 PM
Only him? I hope he has fortitude… mine's being stretched thin. :)
 
I think there is more than just Vitaly modding there
 
@Guesswhoitis. As chuy mentioned -- has to be someone else, but he's in charge of the projects, so it was a safe bet :D
@Guesswhoitis. What's rubbin ya the wrong way :D
 
@Guesswhoitis. yes, I did see it (this morning, after you mentioned it last night). Thanks and have an upvote. For me the main trouble is dealing with the endpoints in case of the derivatives. But I haven't thought about it since we last spoke as I haven't needed to numerically differentiate anything.
 
Don't start, @Sektor. :P
 
@Guesswhoitis. I have time :D :D If you have the nerve :D or patience :D
 
3:33 PM
@Oleksandr, that's okay. I still need to follow up on my promise to Alexey to include an example. Maybe this weekend…
 
 
1 hour later…
4:55 PM
I can understand ChrisJJ's behaviour at the start, but now I'm coming to the "troll" consensus too. Aargh.
 
-1
Q: Where is the record of the agreement referred to here?

ChrisJJ"don't use the platform name as tag unless you are sure the platform plays a role" https://archive.is/GkVrc#selection-1219.5-1219.86 "This was community consensus, agreed upon" https://archive.is/GkVrc#selection-1789.36-1789.77 Link(s) please. "In my memory" need not apply.

 
@Pat, sorry you got suckered into this. Thanks for disengaging.
 
@Guesswhoitis. - my fault, I should have recognised the signs sooner :P
 
5:11 PM
@PatrickStevens we all should have.
 
they will flame out shortly
 
There is also an element of selfishness in this; "The fact the user is using only WPC and is asking only for WPC is relation enough to WPC. If you want to ask the same question for all platforms, then post it yourself rather than interfering with the existing question." I mean, we're spending our damn free time on you, how about being generous on your end?
2
 
they are awful demanding for someone using a free product wanting help from a free website
 
5:47 PM
@PatrickStevens I'm just settling down with some popcorn to watch how it ends!
 
@blochwave, :D
 
If it ever ends…
 
Ah, we mods have some buttons for that; I'm just waiting for something that can be genuine cause for whacking him with the books… >:)
 
6:05 PM
@Guesswhoitis. Pizza on its way too!
 
Dammit, I just ate. Don't make me hungry again. :P
 
 
2 hours later…
8:11 PM
It is remarkable, but in general the most demanding people are the ones recieving free things
 
 
1 hour later…
9:23 PM
@Searke a case of either "don't ask, don't get" or perhaps "here, take this and leave me alone"
 
 
2 hours later…
11:04 PM
It'd be funny if the aftermath of all of this was that we end up declaring Cloud questions off-topic… :D
 

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