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12:43 AM
Excitement and nervousness awaits:
I might have to buy a PS4 just for that...
 
1:02 AM
Do you guys know if a beta site is removed, can I get my Q's and A's somehow?
I have some valuable (to me) information on the signal processing site and I'd really hate to lose it.
 
138
Q: Database schema documentation for the public data dump and SEDE

Stu ThompsonStack Exchange releases "data dumps" of all its publicly available content roughly every three months via archive.org, and also makes that information queryable over the Internet at the Stack Exchange Data Explorer (SEDE). Over time, as new features and other bits of data are introduced to Stack ...

You should be able to go to the Area51 site & DL the entire Q&A
 
@KyleKanos woah.
Did not know that.
 
I think that's how it works
e.g., the old Astronomy beta (not the current one)
Astronomyastronomy.stackexchange.com.dead

Q&A site for expert and amateur astronomers and astrophysicists

Closed after 338 days in beta.

Says in the header You can download the data dump of all questions here.
 
Uh, when I click on the link I get ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED
 
that's weird, the link is http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/51/astronomy
 
1:10 AM
@KyleKanos I don't suppose there's a handy-dandy tool for browsing the data dumps... is there?
 
SQL?
 
mrgh
The dump is an xml file.
It would be nice to have a little browser utility. Something which would essentially render the xml data as the SE sites are rendered in a web browser.
 
29
Q: Scripts to convert data-dump to other formats

dbrInspired by this question, perhaps we could collect together a bunch of scripts to convert the XML data-dump files into other formats, such as SQLite, MySQL and the likes. To keep things consistent, some guidelines: If something changes in the data-dump, and the old script no longer works, make...

 
Interesting, but those programs convert to databases.
@KyleKanos maybe I'm missing something. Are there nice utilities to browse around in SQL databases?
I've looked for stuff like that before and never found anything quite what I wanted.
Browsing raw table data isn't all that enlightening.
 
IDK much about SQLs inner-workings beyond what I've (roughly) figured out on Data Explorer
 
1:22 AM
Ah.
Ok, thanks for your help.
 
@KyleKanos I don't know what any of that means!!!
 
They're remaking Final Fantasy 7, one of the greatest RPGs of all times
(And by "they," I mean SquareEnix)
 
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
@KyleKanos Apparently you haven't played Chrono Trigger.
(ok ok, I'm bluffing. I haven't played FF7)
 
I've played CT
Didn't beat it, but I played it
 
1:28 AM
@KyleKanos Doesn't count.
It has ~20 endings. Must get them all.
 
Hmm
I've seen a few 100% runs
 
Woah. I don't even know what a 100% run would mean in that game.
You... can't get everything on one play through.
 
100% definition: Complete all optional side quests mentioned by Gaspar so that he tells you the only thing left to do is defeat Lavos.
 
Ah.
 
There are some games where 100% is a vague notion
 
1:29 AM
Indeed.
CT would be one of them :-)
In other news, as a physicist I enjoyed having a tooth imaged via conical beam CT this morning.
Medical imaging technology is awesome.
"Conical beam CT" does not mean "conical beam Chrono Trigger", by the way.
 
Like 100% FF7 is defined by the only guy who runs it: collect min 1 of every item/armor/weapon/materia/, beat every boss, have all limit breaks learned
 
In CT you can't get one of every item on a single play through.
(at least I'm pretty sure)
 
A storyline% for FF Tactics would be interesting to watch, but I don't think TheClaude would ever run it
 
You have to go through "New Game+" to do that.
 
WR for NG+ for CT is less than 7 min
 
1:32 AM
Hey @KyleKanos you ever watch AGDQ?
I seem to remember you do...
 
@DanielSank Only for the last 2 years (plus what's archived on YT)
 
@KyleKanos ok check this out.
There's this game (best video game ever made, but that's not important here) called Super Metroid.
It's an excellent game for speed runs.
 
I've seen it
 
Anyway, in the game, there are some animals you meet which teach you how to do a few important things.
 
And when I get money, I'd totally donate to kill the animals because it's a speed run
 
1:35 AM
At the end of the game while the planet is exploding
Ah, so you know about that.
 
Yes
 
Ok, so check this out:
 
It's the big donate war
 
There was this one run where it was really really close.
Kill versus save was generating a lot of money...
Right at the buzzer an anonymous donator dropped $10,000 with the message "Get rekt, save the animals."
 
Was that you?
 
1:37 AM
Hahaha hell no.
It's just awesome that someone did that.
 
The Yetee usually drops a few dozen K at *GDQ
 
@KyleKanos Nice.
gtg
 
Adieu!
 
 
3 hours later…
5:03 AM
Hey guys, for someone who has just completed his classical mechanics course, what would be the mathematics material he has to study before delving into QM?
Thanks.
 
@Gaurav Linear algebra, mostly.
Assuming you already know calculus.
 
Yes, I'm comfortable with calculus. Thanks a lot.
:)
May I also ask which are one of the better books dealing with linear algebra ?
 
5:45 AM
Never mind, I got this question on Physics which pretty much clears everything up.
 
6:24 AM
@Gaurav you can also start with OCW 8.04 by Prof Adams, which is a valuable set of lectures
For these lectures you don't have to know too much of linear algebra as the course focuses on the wave functions rather than diracs bra ket notation
 
Hi everyone.
Promise me that if you ever teach a quantum mechanics course you will not waste your students' time with symmetrized/antisymmetrized wave functions and will instead just use second quantization.
Please.
@Gaurav I recommend reading the first ~100 pages of R. Shankar's quantum mechanics text book.
 
@gonenc Thanks a lot. I was actually looking for videos on the topic, couldn't get many good ones, and then I saw your comment. It's from MIT, it must be good.
 
@DanielSank wouldn't it be too harsh on newbies?
@Gaurav it is good. If you have already studied QM a bit you can also check ocw 8.05
 
I'd tend to steer new students away from too much wave mechanics for two reasons:
1) It's almost never motivated in a way resembling any kind of sense.
2) It's not actually as useful as the Heisenberg picture.
3) (bonus) The Heisenberg picture is *much* closer to classical mechanics.
@gonenc That depends on what the n00b already knows. If the student has used matrices for classical mechanics/electronics/signal processing/electrodynamics problems and understands what a normal mode is, then Shankar's book is easy to read.
 
or conversely theoretical minimum of prof susskind though i didn't study from there his Classical Mechanics and GR lectures are somewhat good
 
6:33 AM
If the student does not know these things, Shankar's book teaches them before getting into quantum mechanics, which is the point.
Quantum mechanics is 90% solidifying one's understanding of normal modes and 10% dealing with terrible pedagogy surrounding "measurement".
 
@DanielSank I must admit I studied QM to some extent but I haven't heard of 2nd quantization
at least I don't know it by name :)
 
@gonenc That's very sad.
It reflects poorly on our teaching curricula.
@gonenc Try this.
 
@DanielSank well.. I haven't been to college yet but still
 
@gonenc Oh! Then don't worry!
Wow, a high schooler who knows some quantum?!
 
I haven't studied QFT yet
 
6:36 AM
@gonenc No, I'd imagine without a college environment that would be somewhat difficult.
 
@DanielSank Well I have graduated this year from high school, not a high schooler any more :)
AFAIK 2nd quantization is related to qft right?
 
@gonenc No!!
No no no.
That's a very common misconception.
Second quantization is just a reasonable way to write things when you have more than one excitation in the system.
 
@DanielSank okay!?
 
It turns out that the "first quantization" is really really REALLY fantastically stupid and should not be used.
We only learn it because nobody has written a text book which does things the right way, probably for "historical reasons".
@gonenc I explained some of this in the two answers I linked above. If you'd like to talk about it more in detail I'll stay awake for a bit longer.
 
@DanielSank any recommendations for a textbook which deals with 2nd quantization?
@DanielSank the time difference kills me! its 9.42 am here :)
 
6:41 AM
@gonenc Shankar's probably does. It's been a while since I was up to my eyeballs in textbooks so I'm not entirely sure.
I didn't really learn it from a book because most of them barely discuss it.
 
@DanielSank I've started reading one of them but a chat environment would be really nice
 
@gonenc Well, ask any questions you like here.
Note that if you use the @DanielSank thing I'll get a notification later even if I'm not around when you post the message.
I regard online chat as an asynchronous communication protocol :-)
3
 
I've read this one and it sort of makes sense to use 2nd quantization
@DanielSank is it basically a notational device?
 
@gonenc Yes, but it's deeper than you might think a notational device could be.
What you normally think of as "particles" in quantum mechanics are not distinguishable little balls.
They're excitations of the normal modes of a system.
As explained in my linked answer, it makes no sense at all to presume that each unit of excitation has independent identity. This is an absurd notion. Symmetrized/antisymmetrized wave functions resolve this in an incredibly convoluted way.
Second quantization deals with it by not trying to give particles independent identity in the first place. It's much simpler.
 
@DanielSank question: If I were to use 2nd quantization notation for say particle in a well or SHO than my state vectors would be infinitely long.
 
6:50 AM
Well, yes, in a sense.
If you have a system with particles that have mass then in many cases the total number of particles is not changing.
In this case, and if there is only one particle then second quantization doesn't really offer any simplification.
 
I understand that it is probably best for $l=1/2 \otimes l=1/2$ states because there are finite number of state.
 
However, as soon as you go to systems with more than one particle you should completely forget about first quantization and only use second quantization.
Whether there are finite or infinite modes in the system is irrelevant.
Hahah, wow.
 
@DanielSank all right
 
I think that's the third time I've been starred for saying that I regard online chat as an asynchronous communication protocol :-)
 
@DanielSank I did that and I found it really appropriate :D
BTW griffthis also mentions writing states in the form of second quantization but doesn't say it explicitly
ie doesn't name it
 
6:55 AM
@gonenc Haha. I just checked, that was indeed the third time my comment about chat being asynchronous was starred :-)
I guess it's a popular joke.
@gonenc That's not surprising. That book is horrible.
It's a friendly book, but it makes everything harder than it should.
This is just my opinion, of course.
 
@DanielSank I've seen it used in MIT and whatnot so In
*I thought I should give it a try
I'll probably start Shankar or sakurai in the summer
*this
"[1] The term "second quantization" is stupid, so don't try to interpret it." that I believe :)
 
@gonenc Good, because it's true.
@gonenc Great, definitely go for Shankar.
 
@DanielSank Shankar or sakurai I'm not sure yet
 
Sakurai is so-so in most parts, but there is one part that's truly excellent: the chapter on angular momentum.
 
That is exactly why I want to read sakurai
 
6:59 AM
Shankar is good throughout. I highly recommend it.
 
especially because he uses SO(3) and SU(2) to explain stuff
 
@gonenc Ahhh, a little, yes.
You like representation theory?
 
I may try to read both :) I have a 3 month summer holiday
@DanielSank I've read it in a book about group theory but haven't finished the book yet
It'd be nice to see all those group stuff put into real use
 
One place that comes up is in finding the normal modes of a system with symmetries.
 
though the textbook was physics oriented I really like to learn about the real physics side of the story
 
7:02 AM
Group theory can really help you there.
Consider, for example, the normal modes of vibration in a molecule.
You will find that representation/group theory helps you understand this.
 
@DanielSank Do you work in Google? That is really cool :D
 
@gonenc Yes, I do :-D
I really really like it.
 
@DanielSank was your phd from physics or from engineering?
 
@gonenc Physics. I worked in this group.
It is an engineering oriented physics lab.
 
@DanielSank I'm seeing your comments now. Thanks a lot for all the suggestions.
 
7:07 AM
@DanielSank Now I don't have to convince my parents that I won't be poor and suffer from lack of money because I'll study physics :D
 
@Gaurav Sure.
 
People with phd in physics study in google :D
 
@gonenc Oh goodness gracious no.
You parents think that?
When I graduated with my physics PhD I had zero problems finding a job.
 
sort of at the beginning because where I'm from the situation is more or less like that
 
Granted, I had a somewhat special circumstance because my graduate school lab was essentially acquired by Google, but I had several other (good) job offers as well.
 
7:09 AM
@DanielSank where were you as an undergrad/masters?
 
If you get an experimental degree you can get hired by engineering companies.
If you do theory you can work in research, engineering/modelling, financial analysis, etc.
The possibilities are endless.
 
@DanielSank Well, I would not say that Weyl quantization is stupid...it is an extremely important tool :-P Nevertheless, I may agree that quantization is not physically relevant, the classical limit is.
 
I would give you this advice: as an undergraduate and graduate, focus on building your toolbox of skills.
@gonenc Undergrad at Yale, masters/PhD at University of California Santa Barbara.
@yuggib I don't understand the second sentence there.
 
@DanielSank me neither :)
 
@DanielSank The classical theories physically emerge from the quantum ones as an approximation, not the contrary
 
7:11 AM
@DanielSank that is a head start :)
 
@yuggib Ok, that's true. So what?
When teaching someone a new thing it's useful to introduce that thing from a familiar point of view.
That's one reason I think Heisenberg is much better than Schrodinger.
@gonenc I suppose.
 
so the procedure of quantization would always be non-optimal in some sense...the lost information leads to the problems in quantization
information lost in doing the classical approximation
 
@gonenc I worked with people at UCSB who went to very small schools for undergrad and they did really well.
@yuggib Well, yeah, but it's easier to understand the meaning of an equation of motion for $x$ and $p$ than it is for "the wave function".
 
@DanielSank I think it depends more on the person than the institution
 
For a n00b, what the hell is a "wave function"?
@gonenc Yes, that is very wise of you.
...but the institution does matter ;)
 
7:15 AM
@DanielSank where the hell did that come from? :D
 
In my opinion it would be more pedagogical to introduce quantum theories in its own right, but starting from observables and probability
 
@gonenc Directed at yuggib.
@yuggib I do not disagree. If I remember correctly Sakurai does this.
@yuggib I personally think that black body radiation is an excellent starting point.
 
yes, it may be true
 
It shows that classical E&M doesn't work, motivates energy quantization, and gets you Planck's constant all at once.
Then maybe talk about photoelectric effect.
From there you've established the ground rules of quantum mechanics and what's left is to use something like double slit to get probability amplitudes.
 
exactly
 
7:18 AM
I do think using real experiments is good. It's important for students to understand that this isn't just doctrine. It's real.
 
or getting the fact that trajectories do not work anymore
 
Anyway, my point about Heisenberg is that after all the ground rules are learned, the student does as some point need to start using a dynamical framework.
 
pedagogically, I agree
 
I prefer Heisenberg over Schrodinger (and 2nd quantization over 1st).
 
but I like axiomatizations, I am an half-mathematician you know ;-)
 
7:19 AM
@yuggib We should start a university.
 
ahahah
exactly
 
@yuggib That's just not how science works though.
You can't axiomzie Nature.
 
yes of course, but it is how our mind does
 
You have to axiomize math and then see if it gets Nature right or not.
 
@DanielSank I think learning heisenberg would be really hard if you don't know about schrödinger
 
7:20 AM
you need a logical structure to predict
 
@yuggib Well, think about how math is actually invented.
Someone has a notion of something which is not axiomized. Frequently this something is an element of Nature: some physics idea for example.
That's the starting point. We build up some self-consistent ideas and try to fit it together. The axiomization happens last.
I agree that the learning mind prefers axiomization up front though...
 
well, it depends on which type of maths you do
 
@gonenc Really? Why do you say that?
 
believe me, there is a lot of definition and axiomatization up front in some branches of math
 
@yuggib Indeed, but those came from somewhere :D
 
7:22 AM
but it is true that some problems came up later historically (like logic and set theory)
 
You're right of course. We spend much time deducing the consequences of accepted axioms. No argument there.
 
@DanielSank Dunno I think because I learned schrödinger first and then learn heisenberg, by then it was easier for me to accept the heisenberg picture
 
it is easy to lose the founding motivation in math sometimes
:-D
 
@yuggib ???
 
I think it is more about sophistication in QM.
 
7:24 AM
@yuggib Not sure what you mean.
@gonenc Not sure what you mean.
 
that when you look at natural transformations between functors of categories
 
:D
 
:D
 
@yuggib You lost me already.
 
it is not so easy to understand why you bother to do that
that was more or less my point ;-)
 
7:25 AM
@yuggib My knowledge of math is heavily skewed towards the bits which are useful in physics.
 
@DanielSank I mean having much more experience in QM makes it utterly easy to understand heisenberg.
 
Real/complex analysis, tensors/forms, linear algebra, etc.
@gonenc Oh.
 
ahahah also mine...but I find some elucubrations fascinating nonetheless
 
Besides I am way better in diff equations than linear algebra
 
@gonenc That's true, but I think it would also be true that experience in QM via Heisenberg would make it easier to understand Schrodinger.
@gonenc Hahaha, that's uncommon!
 
7:26 AM
On the other hand I also like the connection of heisenberg with poisson brackets though
 
@yuggib What does "elucubrations" mean?
@gonenc Bingo.
 
@DanielSank really? well I hate diff equations when it gets to special functions but until then it is fine
 
d'oh in my native tongue it exists
speculations/musings
 
@DanielSank thats probably why heisenberg seems easier for those who has studied lagrangian/hamiltonian mechanics
 
@yuggib What native tongue is that?
 
7:29 AM
verb (used with object), elucubrated, elucubrating.
1.
to produce (especially literary work) by long and intensive effort.
 
italian
 
@gonenc Thanks!
 
it should be of latin origin
 
@yuggib it is indeed :)
 
@yuggib I see. Yes, it must be related to "elucidate".
Lucid, Lucifer, etc. all having to do with light.
 
7:30 AM
@DanielSank I didn't know about it either :D English is my second language :)
 
@yuggib I don't know Italian, sadly.
@gonenc What's your first?
 
it seems that "lucubration" in english exists
but maybe is completely uncommon
 
@yuggib Is it normal that I've read it as lubrication?
 
I'm not sure about the definition of axiomisation being used here. I'm assuming it's the process of stating a particular principle devoid of formal proof because it is so obvious.
 
@Gaurav It's not really a question of being obvious so much as being what one chooses to use as the starting point.
@gonenc I did too, at first.
 
7:32 AM
@DanielSank do you mean as in native or first foreign language?
 
@gonenc Native.
 
@Gaurav It is assuming something to be true, because something has to be assumed if else you cannot say anything
 
@DanielSank turkish :D
 
@gonenc Ah. Interesting. I had a Turkish friend in university.
 
@gonenc Ahahah not really no...
 
7:32 AM
It is a beautiful language, I think, based on the sound of it. Sadly I cannot speak/understand it.
 
@gonenc it does not mean that
 
@yuggib he?
 
@yuggib I think that message was replied to the wrong one from @gonenc.
 
@yuggib I think it is utterly normal :D
 
yes exactly
 
7:33 AM
oh :D
 
Hahaha I've lost track of which messages are responding to which others.
 
@DanielSank well.. I find english to be better in the sense that I usually use english words to express myself in turkish :D
 
@DanielSank me too o.O
 
@DanielSank I think it is now a trilogue more than a dialogue
 
@gonenc Perhaps a polylog.
I amuse myself.
 
7:36 AM
@DanielSank :-D :-D
 
@DanielSank hah! :D I didn't expect that!!
 
There are few things so sweet as a truly awful mathematical pun.
2
 
@DanielSank I don't know which one to star the pun or this :D
 
@gonenc Well, you don't have a limited number... :D
 
will do both :D
 
7:38 AM
Haha, this is my night for getting stars.
 
:D
wolfram has lots of such puns and jokes
and of course this
 
Oh my.
 
@DanielSank the ams article is utterly hilarious! :D
 
:D
 
Ok, mathematicians, this is for you.
 
7:41 AM
*Proof by reference to inaccessible literature:*
The author cites a simple corollary of a theorem
to be found in a privately circulated memoir of the
Slovenian Philological Society, 1883.
 
Bwa ha ha ha. That is excellent.
 
ahahahha
 
all of them are! page 5 in the article :D
 
@gonenc Are they all grape jokes?
 
grape jokes?
no
see p. 5
 
7:45 AM
I meant the Wolfram thing.
 
p. 28 in the article
:D
 
"Proof by funding:
How could three different government agencies be wrong?"
Oh man, that is actually not so funny. That hits a sore spot.
 
@DanielSank every one of them hits a sore spot so to speak
 
@gonenc Haha, indeed.
 
they are however mainly "physicist" proofs and used widely in lectures and textbooks
especially this one Proof by example:
The author gives only the case n = 2 and suggests
that it contains most of the ideas of the general
proof.
 
7:48 AM
@gonenc Ah yes.
A related favorite is
"because it's obvious (if you've been doing this for three decades like me, but I'm too lazy to actually explain it to you the student for whom this is all new)".
 
@DanielSank this lecture of Jean-Pierre Serre is also really funny and educational if only I could understand his frenchy english
@DanielSank I think this is either Proof by seduction or Proof by intimidation
 
@gonenc While we're doing show-and-tell, I'll put this out there.
@gonenc I can hardly understand what he's saying.
Oh my, this lecture is an hour long!
WAHAHAHAHA now he's recommending injecting typos into theorems.
@gonenc this "bad math" lecture is hilarious.
"So this is the way you start. I mean you start by not explaining your notations and when you do explain them making impossible references."
 
@DanielSank so was the wat video although I don't know much about programming :D
 
@gonenc You don't have to.
Javascript is so $*(@%& that it's funny to everyone.
 
@DanielSank I know my roomie does a lot of programming and he usually swears a lot when he has to use java, which will be the case in the university he'll visit :)
@DanielSank a subtitle would be nice indeed :)
 
8:02 AM
@gonenc I'm starting to catch on now.
 
@gonenc Proof by intimidation:
 
8:23 AM
@DanielSank with.=without because it is an abbreviation :D
 
 
5 hours later…
12:55 PM
@DanielSank How many times has this been stated & starred?
 
@KyleKanos : So far 3 times.
 
I forget often that there is a search function for chat
 
it's in the upper right hand corner of the screen
 
But the actual chat bit that's interesting/important takes up the whole left hand side, so there really isn't much reason to "look right"
 
true
 
1:33 PM
Interesting SO question on what happens when you program without thinking ( [a] you find interesting undefined behavior, [b] you don't get what you actually want, [c] you get a gold badge or two )
208
Q: Why does rand() + rand() produce negative numbers?

badmadI observed that rand() library function when it is called just once within a loop, it almost always produces positive numbers. for (i = 0; i < 100; i++) { printf("%d\n", rand()); } But when I add two rand() calls, the numbers generated now have more negative numbers. for (i = 0; i < 100; ...

 
user54412
Some time in the next century or so, the last person to understand low-level concepts like how data is arranged in memory will die. Civilization as we know it will then begin its long decline, à la Foundation.
 
Don't the engineers who design computer components know how data would be arranged in memory?
 
user54412
But what if they take a hiatus, leaving a generation with no designers and just end-users?
 
Oh.
Then I guess we'll be screwed
But as long as there are companies & capitalism, I don't think they'll be taking a hiatus
 
2:04 PM
Won't there still be textbooks on the subject?
 
They'll be lost to the Great Book Burning of 2047
 
user54412
You should read Foundation (aka The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire)
 
Woohoo, I get to finally use the auto-text that I made months ago about non-mainstream questions: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/189944/theory-for-gravity
 
You mean the virtual Great Book Burning of 2047. Most books by that time would've been digitized.
 
@ChrisWhite But of course, only the original trilogy Foundation, Foundation & Empire and Second Foundation
@Gaurav Those will be lost when Skynet comes online in 2063
On that post I linked about: gravity, mass, kinetic energy and dark matter don't exist while (somehow) relativity does
 
user54412
2:10 PM
@KyleKanos Everyone keeps telling me that, but after reading those I really want to read the rest.
 
Christ, Viagra commercial playing on the office TV.
Lol, graviton is electrostatic repulsion.
 
@ChrisWhite I didn't like the feel of the latter 3 (didn't read the last one) as compared to the original three
 
Burning books is the last thing skynet would be willing to waste time on. They'd just go about cutting communications first. They're not ISIS, you see.
 
@Gaurav Skynet can't burn books because she wasn't online when the books were burned
But she'll definitely delete the digital copies so humans get stupider
 
Oh, oookaay.
 
2:47 PM
0
Q: My question is off topic - though I asked about proof of a specific concept

DorRegarding the thread: Total charge on grounded conducting plane - with electric dipole & point charge My question is considered off topic and was put on hold. Why? Probably it seems like "fix my homework", but: I invested quite an effort, including a descriptive image which I created. I as...

 
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