English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

A six year old girl shot in the head with a shotgun. A 30 yr old who fell off a 30 ft high bridge. A 45 y.o. alcoholic bleeding out from esophageal varices right in front of me. A teenaged girl who was run over by a pickup truck (tire tracks - literally - on her upper chest and on her lower legs) with compound fractures of both lower legs, and two punctured lungs. I saved her life - well, kinda.

@Arrowfar Hi. :-)

She died two weeks later, but from some other doctor’s stupid mistake - she was on a ventilator and started getting rammy and hypoxic. The first rule is suction the tube. Instead, the idiot turned up the O2 and ordered valium to calm her down. (in the boonies, they have to take the doctors they can get, and they’re not all good.) She died. Post-mortem: her tube was clogged. Was I upset? Yeah, I was. I was pissed.

Kids in status epilepticus. People of all (youngish) ages in status asthmatics (this used to actually kill people in the ER 25 years ago - it was many ER doctors’ worst nightmare). The only thing worse than that is a dying woman on whom the doc has to save a baby by emergency Cesarean section right there in the ER, which, thank God, I never had to do.

As the saying goes, doctors bury their mistakes.

user116848

@medica I agree. Nice attitude. I think standing up to bullies without getting upset is very difficult. How do you manage to do it?

Hey! I thought I was on ignore. Hi.

3:21 AM

I don't have anyone on ignore.

@JasperLoy I did for a month in Charity hospital’s trauma ER (it was, at the time, the busiest ER in the country) and Maryland Shock-Trauma: every day we got gunshots and stabbings and crash victims.

I have a limited capacity for drama. A little goes a long way.

haha!

I guess I thrive on drama. Hell, I'm an ER doc.

@JasperLoy I love being a doc, I love the challenges, I love helping people. I love advocating for patient rights. I love treating drug addicts, and the mentally ill. I used to run/work at a free clinic for poor people, drug addicts and the mentally ill.

I just got my BP down from 150/100 to 105/65. So I try to stay calm.

That's impressive.

3:23 AM

Exercise and change of diet.

I always thought of you as young. Now you have HTN.

I'm probably older than you. Probably the oldest regular here.

(You are better disciplined than I am. I need to do more of that too.

Really?

I would never have guessed.

Why is that?

I don't know - you 'talk' young, I guess.

Swear a lot, edgy.

Some other stuff.

I always thought you were maybe in your thirties, took you for an angry Fulbright scholar or something.

3:26 AM

Mar 15 '11 at 10:53, by Robusto

@Cerberus — You're only young once, but that's no reason you can't be immature forever.

Hahaha. good one!

I'm waiting to get wiser, but it's happening too slowly.

It's not all it's cracked up to be.

Basically, you get to be Cassandra, telling people stuff they don't believe. And they go off and do the stupid things you warned them about anyway.

No, indeed. I just, well, I have to see a doctor for balance problems, FFS. I am starting to feel old.

@Robusto People don't listen. They have to learn for themselves.

And it's a damn slow process.

You'd thing a reward for old age would be wisdom, at least.

I had some of those, but I'm over it now. Seriously, exercising an hour a day and cutting out sugar, carbs and stimulants has changed my whole life. I don't even take BP meds anymore and my rate is still what I said.

I really have to do that.

3:30 AM

I'm not "old" exactly. Just older than most of the folks here. And you wouldn't think I was my age to look at me. At least that's what everyone says.

I don't use any stimulants because of palpitations, but otherwise, I do all the wrong things.

So... in which decade of your life are you, if I may ask?

Did you drive to Woodstock?

ok, I could have too. I would have, but the traffic was bad,\.

oh, man.

dark days

Indeed.

I'm older than you are.

I wouldn't have guessed that either.

I was in sixth grade when JFK was shot.

Right.

3:34 AM

Unless you're slow, and you don't seem slow.

Just counted that out.

Hmm. Why did you think I was younger? The drama?

(I'm a lot slower that the lot of you in here.)

That's the first time I laugh over that day.

@medica Well, not in so many words.

I regret that you and I have had a difficult time with each other. I think we may have similar temperaments. I think you and I both have chips on our shoulders.

I remember when MLK was shot. I was watching the news reports about it and my father said the most horribly bigoted thing I think I ever heard.

@Robusto I agree, but they are different, and maybe incompatible, chips.

I had a really rough childhood, and it shows often in my battles.

woah.

That must have been quite a scary thing.

I got lost in Harlem when I was a teenager.

That's as dangerous as it got for me.

@medica Indeed. Once I realized what was happening, I ran five miles from the Loop to Grace Street on the lakefront.

wow.

3:41 AM

All while tripping on orange sunshine.

I was stopped by guards and held at Entebbe airport in Uganda once.

You see, I thought it was going to be a big party.

OH MAN!!!

LOL!

My only bad trip ever.

Sorry, but that is really funny!

I bet!

lol

I haven't heard names for LSD in decades.

3:42 AM

@medica I know. I think so now too. But at the time it wasn't. I remember hiding in the bushes when some cop cars went by, and they pulled up to each other and I heard one of them say, "There's a nigger we can get over on Division."

!

OMG. Really, that's horrible. I would have had a bad trip, too.

Yeah. Total police riot.

What were you doing in Chicago?

I left home at 17 and went to live there instead of going to college.

That's adventurous. And ... you were a hippie?!

3:45 AM

We never called ourselves that. In my peer group we called ourselves freaks.

I'm impressed.

"Hippie" was a media term. Nobody I ever knew used it except derisively or ironically.

You were about my brother's age,

That's what newspapers called you/us.

My brother. damn. How did you get out of going to VN?

Yeah. But the media have a way of distorting the truth.

@medica My draft # was just high enough.

Lucky. Very lucky.

3:48 AM

Yep. My best friend, the guy who taught me how to fly, went there to fly helicopters. And he never came back.

My brother was drafted. My father wouldn't ever have let him be a CO, and he (well, both my dad and my brother) was a Canadian citizen, even.

So, he went, and came back a terrible mess, and died at 43.

And I stayed home, and wrote to him once a week, and damn. Just damn.

@medica that sucks

My brother was a crew chief on a Huey there.

He might have known my friend. Could have, anyway.

Bert flew slicks out there.

Until he didn't anymore.

He came back (yep. Who knows?) and did soooo many drugs. Everything.

Carbona spot remover. Glue. LSD. anything he could get high on.

Alcohol. Pot. all the time. And he was not a mellow guy. He was scarey as hell.

3:53 AM

Yeah. I went through a phase where I did anything I could find. Then one day I just realized this wasn't teaching me anything good and I stopped it all.

Well, I still drink single-malt scotch.

:-)

I wish my brother had learned that.

He had it a lot harder than I did. I can't even imagine what that does to a person.

Yes. He lost almost all of his friends there.

If I'd been called up, my plan was to join the Air Force. I'd have spent the war fixing radar or something.

But I didn't have to do that.

I tried to talk my brother into going to Canada.

He might have lived a better life if he had gone.

The VN vets have had it really bad.

3:58 AM

Nothing changes. Vets are still treated like shit. By the government. Especially wounded ones.

Yeah. That's why I like to treat addicts and the mentally ill, I think.

I ran/manned a free clinic for the poor, addicted, and mentally ill for a while. That's where my heart really is.

Well, good on you then.

Yeah. But I stopped. Now it's just part time in the ER.

I tried to sign up with MSF a couple of weeks ago, and I was turned down.

MSF?

Doctors without borders (in French)

I wanted to go to West Africa.

I just got so tired of doing nothing.

So, I finally said, I'm going to go. Filled out all the forms, got refrences, everything.

4:03 AM

Oh, of course. I have been a member of Medecins Sans Frontieres (sp?) for decades. Member in the sense that I give them money.

Then they told me they had enough doctors in WA, and if I was accepted, they'd send me somewhere else. So I said no.

We do, too. And Samaritans purse. I went to Africa with Samaritans Purse when I was single.

They only send the "show" doctors to the marquee spots. ^_^

:-)

I'd have been happy to go. They're taking nurses, though.

Really? I can't do a nurse's job?

But they are committed to much more.

Good group.

I know some nurses. They work hard, and most of them think they know more than the doctors they assist.

Some of them do.

One of my sons is a nurse. :-)

I'm very proud of him.

4:07 AM

Our first child had the nurse-midwife to thank for him being born, not the golf-pro OB-GYN who sauntered down the hall every couple hours threatening to "unhook the smile" from my wife.

Seriously? What an asshat.

@medica You should be. That's a job that makes a difference.

@medica My words exactly.

Yep. I often wonder if I would have been happier as a nurse. So I'm living vicariously through him.

Midwives are really wonderful. Lower key.

I would never have been good at either. I couldn't handle the blood and all that.

I hated delivering babies.

4:09 AM

Although I've been remarkably calm when I or anyone I'm with has been injured.

haha! I know a doc who faints at the sight of blood, I kid you not.

When the chips are down, I can handle it. I carried my wife to the ER after she fell off a horse and got a compound fracture of her wrist.

ouch. awful.

So what exactly do you do? I don't know.

Used to be a musician. Then advertising. Now I'm a programmer.

Did you ever go back to school?

4:12 AM

I have a master's degree.

Guitar? Piano? Other?

What do I play?

Sitar?

yes.

Feb 2 '11 at 21:53, by Robusto

i play the piano for my own comfort these days. Hardly ever pick up the flute.

wow. good combination.

I don't really play anything.

I mean, everybody played the guitar back then. But I wasn't special.

What kind of music did/do you like/play?

4:16 AM

I dabbled with the guitar, played bass in a band for a while, but it was never something I wanted to do.

@medica I like all kinds of music (except country and polka), but I play mostly classical.

I love classical.

Have you ever heard Two Cellos? (Celloes?)

Is that a group? A piece? I used to play in the Civic Orchestra of Chicago, the training orchestra of the CSO.

There are lots of pope doing fun things with classical music.

*people

Apr 8 '11 at 2:52, by Robusto

I used to envy violinists. So many chairs in the orchestra! So many jobs! Playing the flute, you had to fight it out for four chairs tops.

They do fantastic stuff.

4:20 AM

Howzabout two guitars?

very nice.

Here's a piece I played at an Orchestra Hall chamber concert:

really nice. Beautiful player (s).

Also this one:

And this:

That's very pretty. Good composition. I am not familiar with his other-than-piano works.

4:25 AM

(That's only the first movement.)

So, you would have been a professional flutist, then?

If you could have made a living at it?

Well . . . I quit when I was 29 and went into advertising. That's how successful I was.

There are only about 50 paying jobs in the whole US for flutists.

I can imagine. That was why I qualified.

Four Fragments from the Canterbury Tales totally new to me.

Is that a harpsichord?

Yeah. My fellow players and I used to game the system. If we found a fresh "new" work we were more likely to get playing time at the chamber concerts than if we had gone up with old chestnuts.

Good plan. So you really did play semi-professionally.

Hard to make a living, I bet.

4:31 AM

No, I was fully professional. There just wasn't a lot of money in it.

Well, I have to go to bed. Got to get up early. Good talking to you.

My friend is a maniac. She made her kids take two instruments each. Piano all, and harp, flute, viola and voice. All professionals. All poor as church mice.

Good talking to you, too. Glad we could.

G'nite.

Hi, @Mahnax. :-)

Mahnax

Oh hi. I'd love to chat, but I'm not even really here. Have a good night though!

@JasperLoy - So, to finish a long story, I'll let you tell me. Could someone who often gets upset over small things do well in those situations? I dunno. I think I do really well. So I’d have to say, no, I don’t think you’re correct.

Not a problem.

lol.

when I come here and never stop talking, people run away.

user116848

@medica Well you can answer my question :-)

Sure!

(nice avatar, btw.)

user116848

4:37 AM

@medica Oh, I mean I already asked you. You must have missed it!

Oh, I'm sorry. Can you repeat it?

user116848

Sure!

Or link it? I'm so tech-stupid, I can't find it on my own... let me see, though.

user116848

I mean it was related to that 'bully' discussion above.

user116848

1 hour ago, by Arrowfar

@medica I agree. Nice attitude. I think standing up to bullies without getting upset is very difficult. How do you manage to do it?

4:39 AM

Oh, ok.

You know what, Arrowfar? I can't help it.

user116848

It is a difficult thing to do. I think.

It is difficult. But for me, I have to do it. I just hate to see people getting bullied.

I just can't abide bullies. It's a matter of having/needing to do something for me.

So I just do it.

And get into a fair number of messes because of it, but it's important to me.

That's all.

user116848

Yeah, I know it is all common sense but still I think it is a very difficult art to master. Being level headed in tough situations.

I wouldn't say I don't get upset, though. I do get upset.

I'm much more confident/comfortable in a serious medical emergency.

That's much less personal, and there are rules to follow if you know them, and literature/people to learn from if you don't.

The human body is predictable. The human mind is much less so.

user116848

Thanks btw for answering.

5:02 AM

Hi @medica @arrowfar!

@JasperLoy Hi! I wrote you a rather long response to your question. Bet you weren't expecting that. :)

If you ever get a chance, spend the money and see these guys. They are amazing in concert.

@medica Yes, you took my comment too seriously.

lol, I'll never win!

@JasperLoy - I bet there are a lot of concerts you could go to. Do you ever go see live music?

@medica When I was 16, I saw a concert every week. Tickets for a student were priced at 5 USD or so then. After that, I went for almost none. Too expensive for adults.

Missing out on nice stuff... live music is wonderful.

user116848

6:25 AM

user116848

7:49 AM

@Arrowfar Hi! You keep changing your picture.

user116848

8:15 AM

@JasperLoy Yes I am.

user116848

Hi

user116848

Btw it doesn't look odd, does it? Changing my avatar. I like to change it often.

user116848

I like different pics for my avatar.

user116848

I gotta go. See ya.

@matt Boo! I told Kit about the letter. Waiting for her reply.

8:38 AM

so you mentioned!

The Cambridge University Press website is the best publisher site I have visited.

Very easy to navigate and search for books.

11:56 AM

This chat is dead.

maybe people will arrive after lunch

I was just looking at three grammar books: Essential Grammar In Use, English Grammar In Use, and Advanced Grammar In Use. They belong to the same series.

I think I have "English grammar in use"

I'll have to check when I get home

Anyway, if you are thinking of getting Cambridge Grammar Of English, think again, because it got a really bad review from one of the authors of The Cambridge Grammar Of The English Language.

@JasperLoy Oh, God, Cambridge and Oxford and their corruption by commercialism.

The names.

12:10 PM

@Cerberus Yes, this is just one example among many!

Sep 28 '11 at 20:14, by Matt Эллен

@Sudhi you seem to be doing alright. I have a book that I use as a grammar reference from time to time: English Grammar in Use by Raymond Murphy, published by Cambridge University Press

apparently I have mentioned it before

@JasperLoy I know!

The Oxford University Press website is terrible. Information is terribly outdated.

I guess the dean didn't approve the changes

or the chancellor

one of those guys

Anyway, my friend has finally returned from Oxford. I met him on Monday.

12:22 PM

how is OUP out of date?

Good.

Did you have a good time?

@MattЭллен ukcatalogue.oup.com/category/academic/language/reference/… One cannot find all their English language dictionaries on this page, for example.

@MattЭллен I didn't approve any changes either.

@Cerberus We only spent one hour together at lunch before he returned to work.

@Robusto best get to your email backlog then!

12:25 PM

It takes an obsessive person to list all the books available with all the latest editions.

Maybe their servers are down. I don't see any requests in there.

could be

It is also quite hard to navigate.

@JasperLoy OK. Will you see him again soon?

@Cerberus I guess I will try to meet him more often for hour lunches.

12:26 PM

Okay.

Amazon is excellent at listing the latest editions. I always trust Amazon!

Hello Everyone

@MattЭллен I just learnt that there are five different examining boards for the A level, very confusing!

'What it means' Vs 'What does that mean'

Why do we need 'does' after 'what' in this case?

Because that is the way it is.

12:34 PM

There should be an explanation and I need that.

Your question is not clear.

You have given two sequences of words without any context.

Does this make sense to you "What it means" ?

For me it does not.

How are you trying to use 'What it means'?

I want to put it as a question.

You should have said that right from the start.

If you want to ask the question, it should be 'What does it mean?'

12:37 PM

Apology

I got that but please do explain that.

'What it means?' is not the proper way to write the question.

I cannot explain it.

Perhaps someone else can!

ok

I think there is nothing to explain. That is just the way the language is.

You are right, however, I still doubt it.

I want to explain this to a non native speaker. There should be an explanation.

You seem to be a non-native speaker yourself.

12:42 PM

You are right and that is why I am looking for an explanation. Also, this kind of questions arise only in non native countries.

@Kabir Only auxiliary verbs and be, do and have do not require a form of do in (normal) questions and negations.

Great! I appreciate it. @Cerberus

@Kabir Good! Of course what I said was a slight simplification, so you might want to look up the details of "do-support" (that's what it's called).

Do-support

In the grammar of English, the term do-support (or do-insertion) refers to the use of the auxiliary verb do, including its inflected forms does and did, to produce negated clauses and questions, as well as other constructions in which subject–auxiliary inversion is required. The verb do can be used as an auxiliary even in simple declarative sentences, where it usually serves to add emphasis, as in "I did shut the fridge." However in the negated and inverted clauses referred to above, it is used because the rules of English syntax permit these constructions only when an auxiliary is present. It...

Oct 28 at 16:29, by Robusto

We really have to admire English for giving us the word clusterfuck. It is so very useful for describing so many aspects of human endeavor.

I keep coming back to that.

Looking at it.

12:51 PM

Any experience in particular to trigger that?

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: This just in: terrorist Guy Fawkes apprehended in plot to blow up Parliament with "barrel bombs"! Details on FOX News special report to follow. (no tags)

@MattЭллен: Penny for Guy Fawkes!

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: This just in: terrorist Guy Fawkes apprehended in plot to blow up Parliament with "barrel bombs"! Details on FAWKES NEWS special report to follow. (no tags)

@Cerberus Do you celebrate Guy Fawkes night?

@Robusto Mm I think this was some historic Brit? Something to do with the anonymous Internet masks?

@Cerberus The originator of memes since the 17th century.

How noble.

1:15 PM

@JasperLoy just pick the one with the exams with the highest pass rate

@Robusto I might not have a penny, but I've got some coppers interested in terrorist sympathisers