The Bridge

Q: Deus Ex - How do I use the Tactical Enhancement pack I redeemed?

12:48 AM

0

I successfully redeemed my tactical enhancement pack pre-order bonus on my PS3, but I dont see the weapons in my inventory. I'm currently roaming the city after the first mission at Sarif and I can't figure when they (and the money that was supposed to come with the pack) become available.

0

Q: What about the score thing on the game over screen?

What is the purpose of the score in the game over screen in minecraft? How can we make points ?

@NickT ?

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoodleImplements

This one?

?

12:54 AM

@NickT Huh, your said 'Image not Found' for me, but when I look at it in the transcript, it's fine.

g'night all

nn

I wonder how much money Red Bull makes from drinks vs. spends on sporting ads

TVTropes does referrer-based blocking.

Hence, you can't see it in the chat until you've viewed it on the TVTropes page.

Also, thank Netscape or whomever for me spelling referrer wrong on the first try.

(It's spelled wrong in the HTTP spec)

1:33 AM

Evening everoyne

Q: Tag synonym request [sneak] → [stealth]

0

I'd like to request a tag synonym for [sneak] into [stealth]. Sneaking in the sense of movement would fit well in stealth.

feature-request status-completed tag-synonyms

2:10 AM

2:20 AM

@Lazers Does the HTML char code actually render for anyone?

I just see →

@NickT I see that too.

Q: What happens if I blame The Powers That Be?

2:49 AM

0

Near the end of second scenario, when I tried to rescue those trapped by the earthquake with the Chinese drill, the faulty drill blew up. Then you have to choose someone to blame for it. One of the options is "Blame The Powers That Be", but it doesn't say what will happen if I pick that. I was in...

tropico-4

3:10 AM

1

Q: Are street crimes random?

In L.A. Noire, do the street crime dispatch calls occur at pre-defined events in each crime case? If I miss one, is it lost forever unless I replay the case (or the entire game) or are they basically randomized and without a set time and place that triggers them?

la-noire

bwarner

3:21 AM

I feel like ITG turns us into a trivia site. Which I guess is fine if you like trivia (heck we even have a tag for it), and I'm sure people appreciate getting the answers to their trivia questions, but it certainly isn't why I come to the site. ITG remains the one and only tag I've ever ignored on this site.

But I'm feeling like there isn't a compelling reason to ban it either.

3:37 AM

Hey look, there are still people playing AOM. My, what is it, first real 'modern' computer game?

3:55 AM

Y U NO ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) BAN ITG

Oh god this hotels wifi is so bad that I can't even load Speedtest.net

Maybe they've blacklisted it out of shame?

In fact, a star is insufficient for something that amazing.

That's better.

4:13 AM

does speed even matter for anything except torrents so long as you can stream an HD video or whatever?

maybe so you can load Deus Ex in under an hour from Steam, but those 1-time things aren't what should be the #1 priority

Hmm, FarCry 2 on steam for $5...

that game was so stupid, every mission was like "and don't expect support from our guys, they haven't been told"

then you could literally go across the road and do missions for the other faction

reminds me of the "can I play GTA4 without killing anyone" question, but here I'd want it to be "can I play FarCry 2 without doing stupid missions"

would be nice if just playing in the sandbox would advance things

but I don't remember it all that clearly...

5:02 AM

@NickT Streaming an HD video is... difficult to impossible at .4 mbps down

also, I kind of need a fast connection to pull down raw map data for work

funnyordie.com/videos/5876f2aced/…

Don Cheadle is Captain Planet!

(Same link now with description is all.)

Q: TF2 Item Logging, how to get the item

0

For a while I had been using this plugin on my server until TF2 turned of the in game item updates. Well they're back on now but the logger isn't working. It will log everything correctly except the item. From the .sp: Format(query, sizeof(query), "INSERT INTO `log` SET `name`='%s', `steam_id...

team-fortress-2 source-engine plugins

0

Q: Is there a benefit to successfully handling more balls in the bonus levels?

Bonus levels in shatter begin with three balls in an empty field that you must strive not to drop for as long as possible (and that's quite the challenge as they constantly become faster). Since you gain 100,000 points each time you successfully hit one of the balls away from you, I don't really...

shatter

Q: Dragon Warrior 2: Unable to get the water flying cloth

5:35 AM

0

I'm playing Dragon Warrior 2 with the emulator NesDS. I've given the magic loom and the yarn to don mahone, but he always says he's not done. I've saved my deeds on the imperial scrolls, exited the game (even restarted the emulator), and re-loaded my save but it always says he's not done. I'm ...

emulation dragon-quest-series

5:59 AM

What a scam.

@LessPop_MoreFizz I think Flushing is the town where the seller lives in. He said so in the location field after all

@YiJiang Yes. That is the joke.

(Flushing is a neighborhood in Queens, NY)

Oh.

Listening to the SE podcast, what in the world is a 'tunka' truck?

Q: How do I get all parts of my HUD to stick around in DX:HR

7:14 AM

0

So, I'm pretty sure when I started playing DX:HR, the display for my "hotbar," or 1-0 keys, was constantly around as long as I wasn't at Sarif Industries. Yet now, later in the game, I'm noticing that it fades out after a few seconds wherever I am, and only re-displays when I change items. I hav...

deus-ex-human-revolution

8:30 AM

Tonka

Tonka is an American toy company most known for its signature toy trucks and construction equipment. History On September 18, 1946 Mound Metalcraft was created in Mound, Minnesota with three men as partners, Lynn Everett Baker (1898–1964), Avery F. Crounse, and Alvin F. Tesch. The first products produced by the fledgling company were two versions of a metal tie-rack. Their original intent was to manufacture garden implements. However, when their building's former occupant, the Streater Company, attempted to market two metal toys and failed, the three men at Mound Metalcraft thought th...

user30

@Gnome Yeah, I'm liking Wunderlist again

9:48 AM

10:32 AM

Hmm, Mahout is more complicated than I thought.

Q: Text based games for UNIX/OSX terminals

►

Stack Exchange

10:51 AM

0

I'm looking for any text based games for UNIX/OSX. By 'text based' I mean programs that run in a terminal, with no mouse controller - just commands and stuff... Preferably they should be free and open source. Do you know of any good ones?

osx unix terminal gaming

Raise shields!

11:07 AM

@ArdaXi That story was one of the saddest I've ever read.

I know right.

I was reading it last night. Almost punched my monitor.

I don't get angry sad, so I was feeling like curling up in a corner...

user30

ugh, quadratic inequalities

Umm... Yay...?

That's what I'm returning to next week.

11:18 AM

Ha I don't start college for two weeks!

I don't start college for two years.

Take that.

Different college, English college is 16+

Yeah, I could enroll in college at 16, but I take the highest level of school education here.

Which lasts 6 years.

user30

Ronan not sixth form?

user30

ಠ_ಠ

11:21 AM

No college, I could go to sixth form, but all the ones near me are crap

user30

Ah that's fair enough, you doing A-levels or whatever the other things are called? (BTEC?)

A levels, and yes the others are called BTEC, you can also do IB!

Germany decided yesterday that Doom is no longer realistic enough to be harmful to minors.

@RonanForman I'm doing IB.

user30

Yeah, I never really understood why UK students do IB

Over hear doing BTEC or IB means your thick, I think it's because it's applied knowlege..

user30

11:26 AM

Well, I thought most did IB because it sets you up well for uni

user30

but most people on TSR who did IB seem to regret it because they ended up missing their offer by a couple of points

I'm not sure about IB but BTEC is definitely the applied one.

Basically you do business subjects, which means you only lean the absolute nessesaties.

user30

yeah, what you taking then?

Maths, economics, phyisics and computing.

user30

good choices, minus the physics

11:30 AM

What's wrong with physics?

user30

I never liked it. Did further maths instead

Actually I think I'm doing further, I can't remember...

user30

further maths & maths are two separate A-levels

user30

although they draw from the same pool of 18 modules

Well I may have just applied to do 5 A levels then. Oops!

Q: How do I keep two different versions of Minecraft installed?

11:33 AM

2

When a major version of Minecraft is released, it takes a while before mods are updated to work with it. It can happen that you want to install the new version, but keep a copy of the old version with mods installed. Windows version keeps data in %appdata%/.minecraft regardless of the executable...

minecraft mods

This gaming t-shirt is crap, the badges have faded and the collar's ripped!

user30

My sixth form also threw in a Critical Thinking AS for free as well

user30

Which I got a C in. :(

@RonanForman You're not the only one. Strangely, mine is fine even though I washed it like 5 times already.

@RonanForman The collar ripped? D:

11:40 AM

The stiching between the collar ring and the rest of the shirt is frayed.

There's about a thumb sized hole in it.

That sucks :/

The silver badge is fine, but I'm not sure whether I just can't tell it's faded

@ArdaXi Mine has been fine, too

Yeah bronze and gold for me noticeably lost the most color

But there are a lot of reports of the fading. It's very odd.

11:43 AM

@GraceNote We're just awesome.

@ArdaXi Can't argue with that. ♪

Hopefully the ones that will be sold are better quality

6

There are stupid questions, and then there are questions like this ^

must resist making joke

must resist changing caret to arrow

11:46 AM

@badp Well go ahead, if you must.

Is the joke "Your question is bad and you should feel bad"?

@RonanForman No, but for the record, your question is bad and you should feel bad.

I wish to know the joke.

Don't we all.

I just love installing software on Debian-based systems.

I don't know the first thing about Linux, yet I have a Linux machine in my house...

11:53 AM

@YiJiang Wow that is... I have no words

Q: What is the most extravagant building material in Minecraft?

1

In Minecraft, which blocks are the rarest, most expensive to build a house from? In particular, by the following criteria: Which are the most labour-intensive and time-consuming per block? Which are the rarest per-block? Which block is the most dangerous to acquire and build with?

minecraft

@YiJiang really disappointed with the comment quality on this one, it has so much potential...

I forgot how nice it was to work with Webmin.

@Lazers I think I won that question!

At least ice won't burn down.

What's the difference exactly?

11:59 AM

But it will melt if you try...

Gah, database planning. I suck at this.

Wait. I can cheat.

@ArdaXi None.

Surely that you can change the second one...

@RonanForman Yes, but Any = 0.0.0.0

Hmm, I understand the tag limit now. Tags are stored as an NVARCHAR(150)

I suppose it could get rid of the any part and just let you chose 0.0.0.0

12:14 PM

I don't actually think that's a smart way of doing that

@badp Which?

are SQL engines good at doing searches matching NVARCHAR's substrings starting at the 25th, 50th, 75th, 100th and 125th position?

3

Q: What determines the type of takedown performed?

0

I noticed that most of the lethal take-downs I performed in my recent play through involved stabbing the enemy in the lower section and then splitting their head with the elbow blade. Only once, in the entire gameplay with over 100 take-downs, did I see the one where he extends his fingers, grab...

deus-ex-human-revolution

@badp How would you do it then?

12:18 PM

The academic answer is a Tags table.

(question id, tag) couples, both fields primary.

(1, "team-fortress-2"), (2, "starcraft-2"), (2, "how-to"), (2, "protoss"), ...

A Tags table would do tag-wikis and such

Is this fast enough? I don't know

Either way you end up with one-to-many mapping.

user30

@badp ohh no

@ArdaXi Nope, then you'd want a Questions table, a Tags table and a Questions-to-Tags table.

user30

12:20 PM

questions -> taggings <- tags

Q: Storing Tags in Database. Store tag once or many times?

5

I would like a bit more clarification on the toxi method of storing tags in a database – mentioned elsewhere on SO. The database schema is: Table: Item Columns: ItemID, Title, Content Table: Tag Columns: TagID, Title Table: ItemTag Columns: ItemID, TagID This is probably a stupid question (...

sql mysql database

user30

(forget my notation, but that should do it)

@ThomasMcDonald That's what i'd do. Taggings can have two fields, (tag id, question id)

@ThomasMcDonald Meh, without attributes on tags I imagine the extra JOIN is a waste of time.

user30

@badp No, because then you're duplicating the tag name on every tag

12:21 PM

What we should do is make it really buggy so everyone leaves and you don't need to bother with tagging.

@ThomasMcDonald Yes, so? I imagine the DBMS would be smart enough to handle that correctly.

@RonanForman That's what SO does, doesn't work.

It makes almost all operations faster, come think of it.

Again, doesn't work when you add attribs

So what you're saying is we're so useful that no-one cares how bad the website is?

@RonanForman Pretty much, yes.

@badp I don't think they do compression in that way.

12:23 PM

@badp In that case, why not just have the questions table have a comma delimited string of the form "Starcraft-2,Protoss,Terran,Zerg"?

That way you have no joins at all

That's what SO seems to do.

@DaveMcClelland Because I imagine that would be hell to parse and search on

@badp Oh lord, I wasn't actually suggestion that in any seriousness. I'm with @ThomasMcDonald on the join table idea

:)

Meh, all options are valid in theory with a fast enough computer :P

True

12:25 PM

@DaveMcClelland Still, it works for SE.

user30

@ArdaXi I don't think SE actually does that

@ArdaXi Wait, the comma delimited field? Oh boy

Now to see if ADO will still work.

Again I don't think it has to be that way. It's more simple to imagine that, in the tags table, the tag field has a length of 25 and changing it would lead to a looong downtime or something

@ThomasMcDonald According to data.SE it does.

Posts.Tags is an NVARCHAR(150)

12:27 PM

Then I have to imagine that real world timing says doing that beats the crap out of all other options, perhaps surprisingly. meh

Again, I'm fairly certain that tags will get an overhaul once SE gets serious about localization

25 bytes of tags might not be enough for a few sites once you go full-on with i18n.

user30

@Arda data.SE isn't necessarily an exact representation of SE's schema

Neermind, cleaning the keyboard.

@badp So you really anticipate an increase in tag length allowance?

room topic changed to The Bridge: of Gaming's StackExchange™ AlienOverlord AskQuestion™ mothership, wherein any attempt to play or discuss unapproved games will result in termination by lazer and an increase in the topic's length. Just kidding, the topic doesn't need your help to get longer. [wipqozn-gravitation-law]

user30

@badp Can we not make the length stupidly long again? It's nice to see some of the starred list

12:30 PM

@FallenAngelEyes I'm not holding my breath but it might happen.

If it happens it won't happen because of Gaming anyway

That's all it's willing to give me.

user30

Who unpinned the thing about ITG? ±_±

room topic changed to The Bridge: of Gaming's StackExchange™ AlienOverlord AskQuestion™ mothership, wherein any attempt to play or discuss unapproved games will result in termination by lazer and an increase in the topic's length. Just kidding, the topic doesn't need your help to get longer, although you CAN help it accelerate. Ask Thomas for details. [wipqozn-gravitation-law]

@ThomasMcDonald How do I help make the room's topic longer?

user30

I'm now down to three starred items.

12:32 PM

I see 10 stars

I see... 3

that's with being in 8 other rooms

But I'm on 768 tall

I see 7 rooms and 7 stars and I'm on a 1366×768

(I zoomed out one notch.)

Pff, zoom

12:33 PM

Tahoma 7 is perfectly readable.

Piffpoff.

Hey @CyberSkull.

Welcome to chat.

@ThomasMcDonald How do I make it longer?

@ArdaXi By shaking it more than once

7

speechless

12:37 PM

@FallenAngelEyes I wish I could star that more than once.

You could convince someone to star by proxy

@DaveMcClelland Done

@badp Hooray!

hehe

Continuing Gaming's tradition of having truly the ~~best~~ most terrible mods.

12:56 PM

Interesting suggestions from CyberSkull

But although he is technically right, I think "PC" is very often used to mean "Windows PC", as opposed to "Mac PC"

@Oak You have Apple to thank for that.

Oh right, the commercials?

Yep.

Anyway, Steamplay is officially "buy it once, play it on PC or Mac"

So I'm not sure his suggestions are wise

What are you talking about anyway?

Something on Meta I missed?

12:59 PM

gaming.stackexchange.com/tools/suggested-edits

@badp already approved them, though :\

I approved 3 and rejected 1 actually

At least, he approved the wiki, not the excerpt

> If at all possible, please tag with the specific operating system you have are having the issue on or question about.

Not only is this grammatically incorrect, but seems backwards.

Do we really need to tag every question with windows if applicable?

@ArdaXi so he wants "[pc] [windows]" for windows and "[pc] [mac-osx]" for macs, I suppose

Exactly.

1:02 PM

Though adding [pc] to [osx] is probably redundant

Unless I'm missing something

It's confusing too.

Anyway, I don't like his suggestion. I think that in common usage PC = Windows, and while he is right and I would have liked it to be the way he describes, common usage is more important

Yeah.

Feel free to make counter suggestions by all means

@ArdaXi Putting aside the PC is not just Windows part, isn't this counter to our standard platform rules?

1:04 PM

On the other hand, maybe we need to remove [pc] altogether, and just leave it as [windows] [dos] [mac] etc.

I simply thought he was trying to be helpful in dotting the i's.

Less ambiguity

Removed that sentence at any rate

Meta-topic posted

And while on that issue,

The wiki excerpt for mac explicitly says it means OS X

So why do we need both mac and osx?

Aren't there more Mac OSes than just OS X?

1:13 PM

In that case the excerpt might need to be revised

@GraceNote I don't think I've ever heard "Mac iOS"

@badp I'm not thinking that, I'm talking out of complete inexperience with Mac OS knowledge.

I threw in the iOS note since Apple makes it.

I thought OS X was just the latest edition of their actual computer system, not their system as a whole

@Grace Note OS X is the latest version of their OS software

1:15 PM

If a user wants to ask a question about a game which only runs on mac OS up to version 9, what tag should she use?

(and I think there are a lot of these games, OS X was a major change iirc)

@oak I would suggest either mac-os-9 or mac-classic

Mac OS X is a wholly different OS than OS 9

The only thing they have in common really is a handful of libraries to ease the transition

Template:Mac OS History

{{navbox | name = Mac OS History | title = Macintosh operating systems | state = {} | group1 = Classic Mac OS (history) | list1 = System 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 System 6 System 7 Mac OS 7.6 Mac OS 8 Mac OS 9 | group2 = Mac OS X (history) | list2 = NeXTSTEP Darwin Public Beta v10.0 v10.1 v10.2 v10.3 v10.4 v10.5 v10.6 v10.7 | group3 = Server | list3 = OpenStep Rhapsody Mac OS X Server (Mac OS X Server 1.0) | group4 = Other OS projects | list4 = A/UX Taligent Newton OS Copland MkLinux iOS }}

It appears the only non-OSX Mac PC OS that matters is... OS 9 and everything before that

Up thru 10.4 you could run system 6, system 7, Mac OS 8 & Mac OS 9 inside the Classic application.

So, essentially, MAC = OS X is wrong, but OSX is such its own significant branch that it obviously needs its own tag. The alternative being "mac-classic" which would cover everything prior.

@GraceNote yeah, that is about right

generally in the mac community "classic" refers to 6-9

becaues the application that supported running it was called "Classic"

1:20 PM

Well, since in common usage mac = OS X, maybe we should leave mac as-is (i.e. explicit about OS X) and then make osx a synonym of mac

0

Q: [pc], [windows] and [mac]

Recently the pc tag wiki was changed to explicitly include Macintosh and Linux as well as Windows. While this is technically correct, I think that in common usage - especially in gamers' terminology - "PC" = "Windows-operated PC", which is distinct from Mac-operated and Linux-operated machines. ...

discussion tags

@lazers I would like to point out that as recently (long ago?) as the early 90s PC was thought of as IBM-PC compatible running DOS or OS/2

So the definition is fluid

Hey @Arda

Hey.

Opened a meta-topic about [osx] vs [mac] as well

1:26 PM

Or, actually, anyone, as I thought this a European brand but it seems I'm mistaken

Is anyone here familiar with GeIL brand RAM?

Vaguely. I know it's a favourite amongst my friends.

And Alternate users for that matter.

And incidentally @CyberSkull, my new meta-topic does disagree with you about how mac should be used, so please go there and make your opinion known via a vote-able answer :)

@ArdaXi Yeah, I was thinking about heading to Alternate this weekend and possibly upgrading, hence my question. I hadn't heard of GeIL before.

@FallenAngelEyes Do they have brick and mortar stores these days?

We could pick up 2 banks of 4GB for a total of 8GB for €34.99

@ArdaXi They do! In Ridderkerk

That's where I bought my last PC

This is what I was thinking about

It's so close by that we just drive there rather than ordering online

Looking at the Prijsverloop, it was apparently €70 in as recently as June

1:34 PM

I see @badp is already trigger-happy to purge pc away :)

Man, and I'm so close to a bronze badge :(

Downsize it, certainly

@Oak Ranting out a semblance of an answer…

It all boils down, though, to the thing that I wish we didn't have to mix game-tags with non-game-tags

Jeff is absolutely correct on it being a serious issue on this site

currently however, the only solution with the tools we have is obliterating non-game-tags.

Q: Tag synonym request: [osx] -> [mac]

1

Currently, the excerpt for mac explicitly mentions OS X (as opposed to older operating systems to the mac). I agree with this definition since in common usage, "Mac" does indeed refer to OS X. But I think that in that case we should make osx be a synonym of mac. Alternatively, if we want to make...

discussion status-completed tags

Oh will you look at that. My avatar has depth, unlike @Oak's.

A: Prevent circular close as exact duplicate loop

1:44 PM

6

This will be included in the next build. At the obvious level, you can't link two posts directly just to each-other. It does get a little bit more subtle/complex when the chain is non-trivial, and/or multiple posts have been suggested as duplicate targets. In that case, it is sufficient that at l...

Only took a year!

@badp Why is it a serious issue?

> Anonymous Claims Responsibility For WikiLeaks Attack

@badp yea, I think it's probably time I edited some information, I want that popup :)

The same Anonymous that DDoSed Visa because they weren't accepting payments for Wikileaks?

@FallenAngelEyes Because it hurts visibility. Compare "boss fights - How to defeat the Dark Angel" and "cthulhu saves the world - How to defeat the Dark Angel"

1:48 PM

@badp Ah for SOE stuff, I see now

Honestly, if we could just blacklist tags from becoming 'main tags' that'd fix the issue, but I really doubt Jeff/SE adding features just for Gaming can ever happen at this point

Hrm :/

Not like we ever stood a chance anyway

At least a couple more sites need it

@badp both the spoiler block and youtube-embedding were done, in large part, with gaming in mind

@Powerlord No.

1:49 PM

@Oak True.

So it definitely doesn't hurt asking

Still, I think we did ask that on our meta.

@badp I have that as a feature request. I'm sure it isn't in current consideration but I'm still going to put footing behind it. I think it's necessary as long as we are incapable of prioritizing the game tag.

2

@badp How would that work from a technological standpoint?

@badp I only remember what I suggested, which was more complicated. Maybe we need a new, simpler feature-request with just blacklisting

@badp actually never mind, if @Grace has it listed somewhere then that's probably all we need :)

1:51 PM

So do we have it on meta anywhere?

I'm pretty sure we did

Q: Allow tags to be blacklisted specifically from appearing in the HTML page title

18

The HTML page title feature which puts the most popular tag on the front of the question is a very useful tool. Problem is two-fold, however. It kills our game-specific SEO if we try to implement a more robust tag system than just "Tag the game". Questions will end up with the things like "boss...

feature-request tags title-tag

3

Hi @Brett!

Brett White Ψ

@FallenAngelEyes Hellos!

Yo @Brett

@GraceNote that's great, and highly-upvoted, too

1:53 PM

@BrettWhite When are the steam versions of Tropico going out? I was hoping to go ahead and download it

Brett White Ψ

@Rapida They've all been ordered, I guess you haven't received them? I don't handle the actual order placing but I get the receipts

Anyone have any insight on how receiving gifts in steam work?

I have a good idea of it

What do you need to know?

The person you are gifting to gets a link to click via e-mail

Indeed, what about it?

1:56 PM

Is about the sum of my knowledge

Actually not just their email

or make sure they are logged in if gifting via your steam list

It pops up like those steam ads do.

ive had issues when they werent logged in

@Rapida Also a popup in Steam

1:57 PM

"You have received a gift!"

Well, TIL about steam gifts

It will also be listed in their gift/subscription page

@SimonSheehan This popup always makes me smile

So they can accept at any time

@FallenAngelEyes Its the best :)

I got the popup for deadisland yesterday :)

but its because I went in on the 4 pack lol

1:58 PM

I've gotten it a few times :P

@BrettWhiteΨ You receive an email. You click on the link. The game gets either added to your library, and it becomes your "for life", or it gets added to your inventory, and you can trade it away.

Brett White Ψ

I gave the person who was going the actual gift buying all of the winners' email addresses. I first gave her the Steam usernames, but she asked for the email addresses too.

"and it becomes your for life, or until valve goes belly up"

You should be able to check that the game became part of the library by looking at his game list. Both however may be private, so you may want to friend the winners first anyway.

@BrettWhiteΨ That's a good idea, as you can add by both