English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@WillHunting I've tried teach yourself Japanese and Latvian. I found that while they are easy going, it wasn't the same as learning with an actual person.

Will Hunting

@MattЭллен But you haven't tried the other series I mentioned?

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting I have not

Will Hunting

Ah, I am trying to decide which is better, let me show you.

in Chez Cosette, 2 hours ago, by Will Hunting

I am trying to choose between http://www.amazon.com/Complete-French-Two-Audio-CDs/dp/144417729X and http://www.amazon.com/Living-Language-French-Complete-coursebooks/dp/0307478432, any comments?

Matt Эллен

I see

Will Hunting

1:16 PM

in German Language, 2 hours ago, by Will Hunting

I am trying to choose between http://www.amazon.com/Complete-German-Yourself-Program-Language/dp/1444177397 and http://www.amazon.com/Living-Language-German-Complete-coursebooks/dp/0307478556, any comments?

They both look very cheap and very good, but I can't see much inside unless I have them, lol.

Some websites are designed terribly for searching.

The psychologist and two psychiatrists I have seen so far are from India, lol.

user116848

@WillHunting What did psychologist and psychiatrist tell you to do?

Will Hunting

@Arrowfar The usual things, which I shan't list here, lol.

user116848

Ah, I see :)

Will Hunting

I am just surprised so many are from India. They went to UK to study.

Mitch

@MattЭллен If you have to ask, then you obviously don't know.

That's how things work.

Matt Эллен

1:27 PM

Is it?

Mitch

I don't know. I'll ask.

asks

No one here knows.

Matt Эллен

oh well. I guess we'll find out some other time

Will Hunting

Will I benefit from reading ESL books? Hmm...

Matt Эллен

do books benefit from being read?

Mitch

@WillHunting do you have beginner knowledge of either?

Will Hunting

1:30 PM

@Mitch I am starting from scratch. Very often I place an order on amazon, and then I cancel it before it is shipped as I vacillate between two choices.

Mitch

@WillHunting I liked to look at ESL books out of curiosity, but they get kinda boring, "Why are they teaching that?"

Matt Эллен

"How do you pronounce gerund?"

Will Hunting

Also, I can't find either option on pirate servers, so I can't decide, lol.

Mitch

@WillHunting When you don't know (and nobody else does) you just have to make a random guess.

Buridan's ass or something.

Will Hunting

For many math books, at least I can find them on Russian servers first, lol.

Mitch

1:32 PM

@MattЭллен I don't know, how do I?

Matt Эллен

with your mouth, nose and throat

Mitch

@WillHunting the language teaching books are too commercial.

@MattЭллен You've answered your own question. Next!

Will Hunting

I need to learn one of French, German or Russian, so I decided to learn the first two.

Mitch

Wait, 'nose'?

Anonymous

@WillHunting What's your goal?

Mitch

1:33 PM

@WillHunting probably good choice

Matt Эллен

nasal sounds are affected by the presense or absense of a nose

Will Hunting

@snailboat Because I am getting some French and German books, I thought I would get some ESL books too in the same series, lol.

Mitch

@MattЭллен I can still pronounce gerund without my nose. Not the other two.

Anonymous

@WillHunting What for? (I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm just wondering)

Will Hunting

I wonder how they use English to teach English in ESL. So from very basic you progress to basic?

Matt Эллен

1:35 PM

@Mitch no, it doesn't sound the same

Mitch

@WillHunting Don't you have a bookstore near you where you can flip through a similar copy?

Will Hunting

@snailboat Well, I am a little obsessed with symmetry.

Mitch

@MattЭллен It really sounds different without a mouth or throat.

Will Hunting

@Mitch Maybe, I need to tear the plastic wrapping in any case.

user116848

@WillHunting By symmetry you mean you want to become all rounder?

user116848

1:36 PM

Good in languages and stuff?

Matt Эллен

@Mitch without a nose the /d/ sounds like a /t/

user116848

That's a good thing.

Will Hunting

@Arrowfar By symmetry I mean that if I do X for A, I also have to do X for B, for example.

Anonymous

@WillHunting If you want to compare the English books to the French and German books, that makes sense. Could be fun :-)

Mitch

@WillHunting Total immersion. Which is not likely in an ESL book from the internet. You'll probably only get one from Francais to Anglais

Anonymous

1:36 PM

If you want to study English grammar and you're a native speaker, you could get a more technical book

Mitch

@WillHunting all books plastic wrapped? Or probably the ones with a CD included.

Will Hunting

Also, I am not sure if US schools consider Singaporeans to be native speakers of English or not, so I have to find out if I need to take TOEFL, lol.

Anonymous

Are you a native speaker of Singlish?

Will Hunting

It all depends on the definitions of native speaker, English and Singlish.

And these are not too clear cut.

Anonymous

Did you grow up exposed to and speaking basilectal or mesolectal Singlish as a young child?

Will Hunting

1:38 PM

@snailboat It's not so much what I think but what they think.

Mitch

@WillHunting It'll be annoying to have to take it but it'll be a breeze.

Will Hunting

@snailboat Sort of, but I think my English is fine as it is.

Anonymous

@WillHunting That wasn't meant to imply that there was anything wrong with your English

Mitch

@MattЭллен without a throat or mouth it sounds like /mbpff/

@WillHunting do you speak any Malay?

Anonymous

I know a native speaker of Japanese who was born outside Japan and had to take the Japanese Language Proficiency Test

Matt Эллен

1:40 PM

I'm impressed it sounds at all!

Will Hunting

@Mitch No, only English and some Chinese.

Anonymous

I guess it was a breeze :-)

Will Hunting

I would say about half the people here are better at English and the other half better at Chinese.

user116848

@snailboat Have you taken the Japanese Language Proficiency Test?

Anonymous

I have not

Anonymous

1:41 PM

I've never taken a Japanese class or test

user116848

@snailboat But you are good in Japanese. You can.

Will Hunting

I think Mr Shiny's Chinese might be better than mine.

Anonymous

@Arrowfar My friends are trying to make me take it this year :-)

user116848

@snailboat So, without proper classes how did you become good at Japanese?

Will Hunting

@Mitch Have you ever read a LaTeX book?

Anonymous

1:43 PM

I've just learned Japanese by using it over the past 17 years

Will Hunting

@snailboat Why do you need to use it?

Anonymous

I don't know if I actually count as "good" :-)

Anonymous

@WillHunting Well, for years I worked at an internet company on a project which was most successful in Japan

Will Hunting

I like Japanese dramas.

user116848

@snailboat Cool. You mean you learned Japanese from its native speakers?

Anonymous

1:44 PM

@Arrowfar Well, you sort of have to.

Anonymous

@WillHunting I like some dramas :-) I liked Gokusen

Will Hunting

@snailboat I love Heaven's Coins I and II.

Mitch

@WillHunting a book about LaTeX or a book done with LaTeX?

Will Hunting

@Mitch About. I am also trying to decide between two LaTeX books!

Matt Эллен

pick the better one

Mitch

1:52 PM

@MattЭллен mpfffpmm

Will Hunting

@MattЭллен LOL

Matt Эллен

@Mitch all those bilabial consonant without any lips! very skillful

Mitch

@WillHunting which two? to learn latex, you need a reference, lots of examples, and maybe a short explanation.

@MattЭллен I did them through my nose.

blows nose

wait a moment...

user116848

@MattЭллен Matt, how much time before the writing exercise start in Overlook Hotel chat?

Mitch

Uh oh. I just told off a lot of people.

Will Hunting

1:54 PM

@Mitch amazon.com/More-Math-Into-LaTeX-4th/dp/0387322892 and amazon.com/Guide-LaTeX-4th-Helmut-Kopka/dp/0321173856, the best two.

Matt Эллен

@Arrowfar three hours

user116848

okay. Thanks!

Mitch

@WillHunting Graetzer looks like he used LaTeX to typeset the book, so shows experience. Hard to tell content though.

Will Hunting

I just found a blog post comparing Living Language and Teach Yourself series...

Alraxite

@WillHunting There's the Latex Wikibook. Why not that?

Will Hunting

2:02 PM

lingholic.com/the-best-self-study-language-method-part-2

lingholic.com/the-best-self-study-language-method

@Alraxite Sort of went through it long ago, looking for an in depth treatment now.

Alraxite

There's also The TexBook for that...

Will Hunting

I know the usual list of them, but those two are the best for LaTeX.

Alraxite

OK.

Will Hunting

I am a bit obsessed with finding the best book on everything, lol.

Alraxite

Happens with me too. But I never end up reading.

Will Hunting

2:06 PM

The trick is to never buy anything until you are 100 per cent sure you will read it from cover to cover.

Alraxite

I have these annoying rereading tendencies, so most of the time I end up not finishing anything...

(Or sometimes starting for that matter...)

Though, hopefully, they'll go away.

@WillHunting So, why do you want to learn Latex?

Fun?

Will Hunting

@Alraxite Planning to go to grad school.

Alraxite

@WillHunting Okay. So you'll be needing it to write maths papers and stuff?

Will Hunting

@Alraxite Yes. LaTeX is to the mathematician as Word is to the writer, lol.

Alraxite

@WillHunting Surely, not MS Word.

Will Hunting

2:14 PM

I love MS Word!

Alraxite

You can maybe teach me how to use it one day.

Will Hunting

Haha, definitely easier than LibreOffice.

Alraxite

Although I don't plan on installing MS Word.

Will Hunting

If I am rich, I will buy a copy of Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office now.

Alraxite

B-but everyone loves Linux.

Even Windows users don't like their OS.

Will Hunting

2:16 PM

I have used Linux and LibreOffice the past few years, with many problems...

terdon

@Alraxite What? Who likes Linux? Only dirty hippies.

4

Alraxite

@WillHunting I see.

So you'll switch to Windows because you think it'll have less problems.

Will Hunting

I am now on Debian 7.

terdon

Good man!

Alraxite

@WillHunting I recommend Windows XP if you switch.

Will Hunting

2:19 PM

@Alraxite I think Windows 7 is the best.

Alraxite

@WillHunting I've only used 8 and XP.

So that advice's from experience.

Will Hunting

@Alraxite I hope 9 will look like 7 and not 8, lol.

Alraxite

@WillHunting I think the only difference is the Start Menu.

user116848

Yes, Win 7 is great. I agree.

Will Hunting

@Alraxite They are doing the same thing in the Linux world. GNOME 3 looks like a mobile phone.

Alraxite

2:21 PM

Also, it doesn't have the advanced appearance settings (I don't remember what it's called).

Anonymous

GNOME 3 is sadface.

Anonymous

:-(

Alraxite

@WillHunting Oh, I see.

terdon

More commonly known as pure crap.

Anonymous

I'm also prepared to resort to terms such as frowny

Mitch

2:22 PM

@WillHunting then you will limit yourself quite a bit.

All text books suck. Some just suck less than others.

Will Hunting

I am thinking of getting the Concise Oxford English/French/German dictionaries one day...

Mitch

Also, different texts are good at different things. Buy them for the good things in them.

Since you are already comfortable with getting more than one book on a subject then you don't have to feel forced.

Alraxite

@WillHunting I have the electronic COED.

It's probably not the latest.

Will Hunting

I must announce again. Everyone please watch the movie "If I stay"!

Best movie I ever watched.

Alraxite

If you'll go away, then we shouldn't?

Robusto

2:38 PM

I take it you have a fondness for chick flicks?

Will Hunting

3:23 PM

@Robusto Yes, but this is not really a chick flick.

Robusto

I guess it depends on your definition of "really" and "chick" and "flick" then.

Will Hunting

Yes, indeed,

Robusto

5:14 PM

Gawd, I hate having to mess with JSTL.

Stack Exchange

7:28 PM

Limerick Machine: There once was a box of cheese crackers Thrown violently by attackers The pain was exquisite I ho…

posted on September 23, 2014 by sgdi

There once was a box of cheese crackers Thrown violently by attackers The pain was exquisite I hope they don’t visit Again, as I fear for my knackers

Shashank Sawant

7:45 PM

How to better say the engine is mostly made up of aluminum?

Robusto

There's nothing wrong with that, but if you want an alternative, try the engine is made up mostly of aluminum. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Shashank Sawant

@Robusto Yeah... that sounds much better... From where did you get the stats?

Thanks!

Johan Larsson

@ShashankSawant 80% of all stats are made up.

Shashank Sawant

:D

Johan Larsson

@Robusto what is it?

Robusto

7:56 PM

@JohanLarsson I'm getting a null value back from the server on a particular property, but the following fails:

<c:if test="${empty avatarPath}">
DO STUFF
</c:if>

The DO STUFF is other JSTL.

It doesn't execute even though the value is null.

JSTL hates me, and I hate it.

@ShashankSawant Which stats are those?

Shashank Sawant

@Robusto Six of one, half a dozen of the other

Robusto

It's a common expression in English.

Shashank Sawant

Oh! I see...

Robusto

In French you'd say comme ci comme ça.

Shashank Sawant

Damn, I am kicking myself now...

Robusto

8:00 PM

In German, maybe "Das ist mir egal."

Shashank Sawant

I guess I just glossed over the word half.

Robusto

Heh.

In Japanese? まあまあです

Ice Boy

How do you say the Jets Suck in Japanese?

Robusto

"Ice Boy bet on them."

Ice Boy

:(

Robusto

8:02 PM

That'll learn you. You never learned the cardinal rule of Chicago politics: "Don't make no waves, don't back no losers."

Ice Boy

I'm on a losing streak. Maybe hockey will break it...

Robusto

Can't get no satisfaction?

Ice Boy

yep

Johan Larsson

@Robusto no way to write a unit test?

never heard of jstl before. It does not look nice.

if test="${empty avatarPath}" the " looks strange

Robusto

Well, clearly you have never dealt with this ugly little monster.

Johan Larsson

8:11 PM

try asking in js or the web room?

Robusto

Maybe tomorrow. I'm sick of this shit for today.

Anyway, JSTL is how you put logic into JSP pages.

Johan Larsson

being stuck usually means learning stuff

not much fun but it makes one google and read docs

Robusto

10:16 PM

@JohanLarsson I've known all this shit for years. It appears to be a back-end problem. Which I should have known, strangely enough.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…