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5:00 PM
and by that I mean I've never had experience with it
 
@Batophobia Get yoself a github account, and check your code in
Learn how to do basic git
 
@BenBrocka Speaking of, I've decided to wait and see if the rumors of a PC release in March are true.
 
(add, commit, push)
It will save you heaps of frustration
I take it you're not a coder by day?
 
@fredley I am, actually
company I work for doesnt have version control
2
 
@Batophobia find a new job
 
5:01 PM
@Batophobia find a new job
 
@Batophobia That's a sign you should leave
 
@OrigamiRobot seems way too early. Haven't these "steam database leaks" panned out to nothing before?
 
would like to but can't find anywhere
 
@BenBrocka No idea, but it's worth $500 to wait
 
5:02 PM
@Batophobia What is their Joel Test score?
@Batophobia Where are you, geographically?
 
@fredley St. Louis area
 
@Batophobia Is that in the US?
 
yea
 
@Batophobia I think there are jobs for developers in the US
 
@Batophobia I don't want to be too nosy, but when you want to change some code, do you just change a file in a folder and hit save?
 
5:04 PM
@fredley 5?
 
@fredley I think there's probably jobs in St. Louis
 
@badp Basically, yes
 
@Batophobia Run run run run run run
 
@Batophobia What happens when multiple people change the same file at the same time?
 
@badp Bonus negative points if it's a network folder that multiple people access at the same time.
 
5:05 PM
...maybe it's a small shop and it doesn't happen very often
 
@badp 3 Programmers, that doesn't happen
 
@Batophobia 3 is more than 1, so it can
 
Well, since it's just three programmers it's not impossible to start doing version control
The nice thing about git is that you don't have to tell anybody you're using it
It can be your little dirty secret.
 
@badp I mentioned it, but they have the mindset of "it's not broke don't fix it"
 
@Batophobia Have you ever lost code? If so, it's broke.
 
5:07 PM
@JasonBerkan never lost code
 
@Batophobia They don't have to buy into it
 
@Batophobia Never made changes, introduced a new bug, and then needed to go back to the old code?
 
@Batophobia Still, running very serious risks that have taken down other companies is an exception to that rule
 
@JasonBerkan Developmental coding grounds. Bug goes there, it is not public facing. Either fix the bug, or remove your code
 
@Batophobia It is broken. You don't use version control, so I'm guessing you don't do daily builds, and since you don't do daily builds, there's no reason to have one step builds. Am I on the right track here?
 
5:09 PM
@fredley I've gotten them to start doing things like using primary/foreign keys in their SQL, so slowly getting better
@MBraedley It's all ASP classic so really no building
 
@Batophobia 2 programmers, it DOES happen. I forced the other guy to use version control though. I refuse to grab his code from wherever he places it if it's not through svn.
@Batophobia run harder.
 
@Arperum Trying but everywhere I try to never replies
 
@Batophobia Murphy's Law. It will break at the worst possible time.
 
@Frank and fun times will be had by all
I had that a while ago, triple harddrive failure on our server, fun times
 
@Batophobia ... WHY!? No! Bad!
 
5:13 PM
@KevinvanderVelden Oh, we had three harddrive failures at different servers two weeks ago. Fun times were had.
 
@MBraedley Tried to get them to at least try switching to PHP. This one is a losing fight at this company
 
And misdeliverd stuffs to replace them.
 
@Arperum jeah, we had three harddrive failures on our one server
 
I.e., server dead and all data on it lost (well, mostly, we got some restored via expensive people weeks later)
 
5:14 PM
@MBraedley Not going to click that at work. They are very anti-loking-for-jobs-while-at-work
 
@Batophobia run harder
 
@Batophobia That's a step backward. ASP.NET MVC.
 
@KevinvanderVelden That's bad.
 
@Arperum also a great time to find out our backup software wasn't all it claimed to be
 
@KevinvanderVelden Yikes.
At least we had no data loss, long live raid!
 
5:15 PM
@Batophobia There's only three listings, and none might not be a great fit for you, but seriously, get out while you can.
 
Oh and while we're setting up everything we might as well switch to azure cause we don't trust the physical servers anymore
@MBraedley wrong person
 
@KevinvanderVelden A backup that has not been restored is not a backup you can trust.
 
I think Unicef might have been not that happy if they suddenly lost a whole pile of data.
 
@JasonBerkan I'm aware, and had brought that up before
 
@KevinvanderVelden Bah, hit some wrong buttons.
 
5:16 PM
Incidentilly, I'm still bringing it up
 
@KevinvanderVelden Been there, done that.
 
@KevinvanderVelden My last contract was at a bigger company - every six months they did a full disaster recovery test (including restoring all backups) to ensure the process was working.
 
We're not that big, kinda small =p
 
@JasonBerkan See, this is something we need to do.
 
5:17 PM
Problem is, they nixed DR because it was too expensive.
 
I'm also pushing for one click deploys
 
This is how you could hack git into your own workday
(roughly!)
 
I did finally automate the migrating customers to new versions though! And now I get to do all the major migrations >.>
 
Basically you keep two separate lines of development: theirs and yours. You periodically import their work into your repository, but your changes exist in a separate timeline that you control.
When you're done, you merge the two timelines together and copy the result back
Of course this is the absolutely worst way to get started with git, and a terrible kludge overall
but I don't know how you manage without the "solve merge conflicts you didn't know you had" step
and without the "know who added what line in the code what the fuck is this timebomb doing in here" step
If it helps, it's not very different from the way it works for people who are introduced to git through github
The cp steps are replaced by git push/pull and SSH setup and pull requests and other such hell
so you've got that going on for you :P
 
@badp is there not a git equivalent of the hginit.com site?
 
5:25 PM
@MattGiltaji AFAIK, all the principles are the same.
 
Yeah, most of the stuff there is in common AFAIK
The main difference is what things are called
 
and the staging part
 
(I haven't really used hg though)
 
I pushed to switch from SVN to hg or git, but was overruled.
 
I picked up this git ebook on discount and didn't regret it.
 
5:27 PM
My argument was that it would essentially solve a bunch of CM problems, as well as allow us to clean up the repo structure.
 
(Don't buy stuff for full price from O'Reilly, they put things for 50% off frequently)
(or do! more power to you.)
 
@MBraedley its hard to get mgmt buy in for stuff like that
at my last company, we switched VCS systems
 
@MBraedley only argument that works with management: It'll speed things up and save money in the long run
 
@MattGiltaji It's easy to the QA and CM manager to buy into, but it's not their decision
 
it took about a year for people to get familiar with it, two years for it to no longer be in the way
 
5:29 PM
@KevinvanderVelden solving CM problems does speed things up and saves the company money.
 
@MBraedley yes but did you tell them that?
 
@MBraedley yes, but those problems are often hard to measure until they are solved
 
@MattGiltaji git is not particularly beginner friendly, yeah
 
@badp it wasn't even a DVCS
 
@KevinvanderVelden I didn't get to the managers, I had to convince my team lead first.
 
5:30 PM
user image
2
 
Also management may be legitimately scared that every developer has their own copy of the entire history of their super-sekkrit precious source code
(although I don't think it's been a problem in the real world)
 
depending on your codebase, DVCS systems can consume a lot of disk as well
 
@MBraedley at the end of the day, however, unless you do weird hacks, you still need to have all of the code on your machine to build it
 
if you have big binary blobs
 
@badp Yeah, that could be a legitimate concern for defence contractors and the like.
 
5:31 PM
@badp If you use databases or any sort of external dependencies it's entirely likely most of that old code doesn't even work anymore
 
@badp Yes, but you don't have the entire history with SVN (although it's basically at your fingertips)
 
@badp depends how its architected, you could be building isolated modules
 
What you can do is split the project in multiple git repos, but git subprojects are even user unfriendlier
 
FAE
@StrixVaria Version Control System Systems?
 
Now you need to make a commit to the main project whenever you want to pull changes from the underlying projects.
@FAE shhhhh it's @KevinvanderVelden bait
 
5:33 PM
4 mins ago, by Matt Giltaji
at my last company, we switched VCS systems
I know what it stands for but I can't be bothered to think atm.
 
@StrixVaria BRB, going to the ATM Machine
 
Where you'll enter your personal PIN identification number.
 
My personally identifying PIN number is not a number that personally identifies me
 
@StrixVaria yep, I do love entering my PIN Number
and my SSN Number on applications
 
Also I feel we've had the TLA Acronym discussion one time too many and can do without the bajillionth iteration :P
 
5:34 PM
0
Q: old app id - first you have to buy the app - what do i do?

user83529we bought dragon whale and later changed app id. now we tried to buy fireflies. we get the message that the object is for another apple id, and we first have to buy the app. when clicking ok, we get the message purchase cancelled - error in transaction. what do we do? johnny

 
@MattGiltaji I hope only on applications that truly need it
 
@MBraedley Are you kidding? How can you send people emoticons without knowing so much as their SSN?
THEY COULD BE TERRORISTS
YOU NEED TO CHECK
 
@badp plus I get all these emails from when my bank moved to a new domain and need me to re-confirm all my information and credentials
 
@StrixVaria I READ "VCR"
THAN I REALIZED THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS
NOW I FEEL OLD
 
@OrigamiRobot I'm sure @GnomeSlice knows what those are
 
5:38 PM
I just got 700 gold to unlock the next Hearthstone adventure wing, but of course, their store isn't working.
 
@MBraedley YEA, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE HIS DAD IS AN ELECTRONICS GEEK
 
What am I supposed to play over my lunch hour, Blizzard?!??!?!?!?!11!?!?!1
 
@JasonBerkan STAR REALMS
 
I played "Legendary" last night for the first time.
 
@OrigamiRobot Well then who else is a young-en here?
 
5:40 PM
It's a Marvel deck building game.
 
@MBraedley @RonanForman
 
FAE
@StrixVaria Legendary's really fun
 
It was entertaining enough, but I'm not sure if it'd hold up if I got really into it.
 
FAE
A little more streamlined than Ascension as well.
 
@StrixVaria I enjoyed the one or two games I've played.
 
5:40 PM
@OrigamiRobot That appears to require another person. I don't have another person.
 
@OrigamiRobot We're not that young, we had VCRs as children.
 
It looks awesome though. I may pick up a copy to play with my son.
 
@FAE really? I've always thought Ascension was pretty straight forward
But maybe that's only because I play on the iPad
 
FAE
@MBraedley It is, Legendary just did something that smoothed out a step or something, I can't recall exactly where, as I haven't played it since it came out.
 
@JasonBerkan YOU CAN PLAY AGAINST AI
@JasonBerkan IT'S REALLY FUN. WE'VE TAKEN TO PLAYING THE PHYSICAL VERSION AT LUNCH
 
5:43 PM
@FAE Well Legendary doesn't have anything similar to constructs, if I'm remembering correctly.
 
FAE
I really wish mobile games in general gave you better access to save games.
 
@OrigamiRobot Oh, is there a computer version? I'm just looking at the page that details the physical version.
 
FAE
I want to get Star Realms on Android but I'm replacing my phone soon.
 
@JasonBerkan THERE IS AN ANDROID APP
 
@OrigamiRobot I'm an Apple fanboi. :(
 
5:44 PM
@FAE Apps carry over once they're tied to your account. Although saved games may be more of a pain in the ass, if that's what you're worried about.
 
@JasonBerkan IT MAY BE THERE TOO
 
@JasonBerkan banned
 
FAE
@StrixVaria it's the save games/progress I want
 
@FAE I'M NOT SURE THERE IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN STATISTICS AND GAMES IN PROGRESS AT THE TIME OF THE SWITCH
 
@JasonBerkan Talk with your coworkers :P
 
5:46 PM
@StrixVaria Fanboy is quite strong a term. However, I am an owner of multiple Apple products.
 
@JasonBerkan Maybe not as bad.
 
@JasonBerkan YOU STILL DESERVE TO BE BANNED
 
The iOS version is coming soon...
 
Having my iPod stolen 9 years ago was, in retrospect, one of the better things that's happened to me.
It was the last Apple device I've owned.
 
APPLE PRODUCTS WORTH OWNING: KEYBOARD (IF YOU CAN'T FIND THE SAME STYLE CHEAPER)
ALSO IF YOU DON'T LIKE USING PRINT SCREEN
 
5:48 PM
I have an iPod Nano, iPod Touch, iPhone, iPad Mini, Apple TV, Macbook and an iMac.
 
@OrigamiRobot DVDs weren't around when I was a kid either
 
@JasonBerkan WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO YOURSELF
THINK OF YOUR CHILDREN
 
0
Q: Minecraft - Can't use the new naming system

user3583094I've had multiple problems with commands all involving the new naming system. It just won't work. Only the IDs will. For example, if I were to try /scoreboard objectives add snow stat.mineBlock.snow Snow That wouldn't work. But, /scoreboard objectives add snow stat.mineBlock.80 Snow w...

 
@GnomeSlice Just BluRays
 
@OrigamiRobot I haven't reinstalled Windows in 10 years. That's why I'm doing it to myself.
 
5:49 PM
@JasonBerkan USE LINUX
ANYTHING BUT APPLE
 
@OrigamiRobot Tried that. Nothing worked and I spent more time setting up the computer than I did reinstalling Windows. My goal is 0% support time at home.
 
@JasonBerkan This isn't 2004 anymore :P
 
I NEVER UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE WITH WINDOWS
 
Installing Linux on my home desktop only took like 5 hours of troubleshooting.
 
@OrigamiRobot The command line and swapping is shit.
 
5:51 PM
@badp True, but I made my choice back then and I haven't seen any reason to change it.
 
@JasonBerkan YOU DON'T SEE HIGHLY INFLATED COSTS AS A REASON TO CHANGE?
 
@StrixVaria The only thing I paid attention to in regards of Linux compatibility when building this computer was getting an nVidia GPU
 
Dear Matlab:
Do you know what would be awesome?
Being able to collapse `if` blocks in the editor.
Thanks, MBraedley
 
Everything worked out of the box
 
@OrigamiRobot No. I earn more than most of you combined.
 
5:52 PM
I had a fun issue where every time I logged in, the GUI would restart, so entering my username and password would cause the computer to prompt me for my username and password again.
 
@MBraedley I'm fairly certain that the Matlab editor does do code folding
 
@badp On for loops and function definitions.
 
CLEARLY YOU NEED TO REFACTOR YOUR IF'S INTO LOOPS THAT RUN 1 OR 0 TIMES
 
@JasonBerkan I DON'T SEE HOW THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT YOU'RE STILL SPENDING MORE THAN YOU NEED TO.
 
and maybe some other things
 
5:53 PM
@StrixVaria How'd you fix that?
 
I'm also using R2011, and not the latest, because that's what IT gave me.
 
0
Q: Ubuntu asks me to log in over and over

StrixVariaI'm brand new to Ubuntu and I was trying to get multiple monitors to work. After messing around in the nvidia settings, I tried restarting lightdm and it made a noise and prompted me for my password. When I typed it in, it made a noise again and prompted me for my password again. And again, over ...

 
In many cases it happens when an X server is started using sudo e.g. as sudo startx (which leaves a root-owned .Xauthority in the invoking user's home directory). — steeldriver Nov 18 '13 at 3:42
so basically, user error :P
an entirely understandable user error that can be made while troubleshooting other stuff
 
I don't even know what startx is, or why I'd run it.
 
@OrigamiRobot I'm spending more money in order to spend less time. At my age, and at my point in my life, my time is worth a ridiculous amount of money to me, and I have the money to spend, so arbitrarily paying more for the same physical thing does not bother me.
 
5:55 PM
@murgatroid99 So maze generation is a little broken. Working on it now
 
I do not "know" Linux.
I can move around folders, copy files, install things, and grep from the command line.
 
I INSTALLED UBUNTU ON A 2ND HDD ONCE AND THEN THAT HDD CRASHED. I HAD NO IDEA HOW TO GET GRUB TO JUST BOOT BACK INTO WINDOWS AT THAT POINT
 
Enough to "do work" but not enough to actually maintain/set up anything.
 
0
Q: What is the black cloud that appears behind some of my characters?

TelosOnce in a while my new character will just have a black cloud, like dust or something, billowing out behind them. It doesn't seem to be associated to any specific traits or equipment that I can discern.

 
@StrixVaria Well what kind of set up or maintenance work do you do on Windows actually?
 
5:56 PM
@badp Hopefully also none, but I guess I do know a little more about that.
 
ext4 should be self-defragging
and Ubuntu 14.04 has SSD trimming happening automatically
 
I do not like building/maintaining/troubleshooting computers. It is frustrating and shitty.
 
so that much is dealt with
 
Regardless of OS.
But OSX is unintuitive and ugly, so I stick with Windows.
3
 
@StrixVaria Both my Macs run Windows. It's my dirty little secret.
 
5:58 PM
Other people can use whatever OS they want. I don't care, really.
Tons of people around me at work use OSX.
 
3 hours ago, by Origami Robot
@Frank IT IS YOUR AMERICAN RIGHT TO BE WRONG
 
@badp windows since Vista does that too, and Windows 8 is extra good about it
 
@BenBrocka well yes but that's the one bit of maintenance that you might wanna do on Windows
The other one is cleanup of garbage, and /tmp usually gets cleaned up on boot, with the logs on an automatic rotation (first plaintext, then gzip, then garbage)
 
Unless you have a tiny SSD or set system restore to use an insane % of your drive garbage files aren't a big problem anymore anyway.
 
> An AT&T spokesman said at the time that Google’s consideration of Charlotte didn’t impact AT&T’s decision to expand in the city.
 
6:08 PM
> AT&T said its GigaPower service will download 25 songs in one second, a TV show in less than three seconds, and a high definition online movie in less than 36 seconds.
It will also buffer your Netflix TV show in five hours
 
Nope for speed most Won't'd
 
@BenBrocka MUST*
 
6:41 PM
@OrigamiRobot Hah. Of course it didn't. Because if they admit that Google is a competitor, people will leave in droves.
@badp This is one of the most misleading lines ever spoken.
Unless AT&T guarantees that speed (and dollars to donuts, they never will), you will get maybe 10-50% of what they say you will.
 
6:52 PM
Question
Say you're in the US and you pay a game on Steam for $100
Your state enforces VAT of 5%
What do you actually pay: $100 ($5 of VAT included), $105 or $100 (pay the $5 VAT separately in your tax forms)?
 
VAT is usually added to the list price
Uuh, as in, you have to add it afterwards
I think that's most common in america?
 
@KevinvanderVelden In the EU. US might be weird as usual.
Vague wording much. Don't make me confused you evil.
Anyway, I'm out foir the evening.
 
That's why I'm asking here instead of speculating
because we pay €100 (€22 of VAT included)
and I want to assume it's the same everywhere
 
user15026
Here, it would be added, so I would pay $105
 

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