Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya - 2014-05-02

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4:17 AM

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Q: Where did Abdul Razzaq (عبد الرزاق بن همام الصنعاني) record what Ali said in regards to those who hoard gold and silver?

I have been researching to answer this question which asks about the grade of a hadeeth from Ali in regards to what Allah said: وَالَّذِينَ يَكْنِزُونَ الذَّهَبَ وَالْفِضَّةَ And those who hoard up gold and silver In my search, I found (In this book, page 455-6) that the sanad of this ...

source-identification

7 hours later…

11:30 AM

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Q: Let's get involved with other SE sites!

I've looked at the profiles of many of the top users of this site, and I noticed something interesting. Many of the contributors to this site do not participate in other SE sites. In particular, very few of the participants participate in graduated, non-beta SE sites. I think this is a problem ...

2 hours later…

1:51 PM

It seems like some people distribute hadith and reference this book en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… without knowing that it is actually a collection of fabricated hadith

2 hours later…

3:27 PM

This seems to be slightly off-topic

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Q: Where is the Tomb of Prophet Muhammad’s father?

I wanna know the view of Sunni and Shia regarding the grave of prophet muhammad's father? acutually which city? where exactly?

@yasar11732 are you referring to instances on this site?

No, I read about it in a Turkish site

@yasar11732 ok, I see

It was knd of a islam Q/A site, people were asking about a hadith in circulation, referenced from that book and wondering if it was sahih

People sharing the hadith appereantly didn't know that the book was a collection of fabricated hadith

which points to the importance of knowing your stuff before you distribute it

@Caleb Hi!

@Caleb Since you are here, can I ask what "pastoral advice" means? I am not well acquainted in christian culture

I am referring to this;

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Q: Is methodology advice to pastors too subjective to deal with here?

I just kicked in a 3rd (and because I'm a mod, binding) close vote for this question: How to reach parents of religious education students who do not come to church? However, I have some sympathies for it. It's highly subjective, but there are good and bad kinds of subjective. It's the kind of ...

discussion on-topic-definition not-constructive subjective-questions

and this;

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Q: Should the question "I am unmarried, how to keep myself clean?" be closed down?

Should the question I am unmarried, how to keep myself clean? be closed down because Islam SE: Not a Muslim Peer Support Group? If so, then why is the community so reluctant to vote to close it down? If not, then should it be improved? Is this type of a pastoral advice question? Which is off-t...

discussion close-reasons

3:46 PM

@yasar11732 This a common tactic with anti-[muslim/Sunni/hadith] crowds. Quoting something that's either obviously fabricated, or at least of questionable authenticity, and simply label it as "This is a hadith from your own books!" to feign credibility.

@yasar11732 Selamlar!

@goldPseudo I will be extra careful with what I read from now on :)

@yasar11732 Maybe the label "personal advice / counseling" would make more sense to you.

Or try understanding this way:
* Doctrine question: "What do Presbyterians believe about baptizing children?"
* Pastoral advice question: "Yesterday my husband got angry and yelled at the kids, how should I respond to him?"

Are those off-topic in christianity.SE?

@Caleb I see.

@yasar11732 No. We have decided 'pastoral advice' should be off topic and we only handle doctrinal questions.

Islam has a very different approach to this sort of thing that Christianity and has a lot more rules and formulas to follow (hadiths about specific scenarios, etc) rather than principles. I see the Islam.SE site lets a lot of questions through that we would shut down and suggest that they actually ask their own pastor who might understand their specific situation better rather than prescribing something over the internet.

3:58 PM

Hmm, I see.

@yasar11732 Confusingly, that question is not about pastoral advice (see my above example for what we mean by that phrase), that is about whether advice to pastors would be on topic. For example: "I am a pastor of a Baptist church and am having a hard time getting volunteers for the choir, what can I do?" We haven't really settled on how on or off topic these are yet.

That was confusing me too :)

1 hour later…

5:06 PM

@yasar11732 i'm not sure. family of the prophet in general seems to be on-topic, but that typically just means his descendants.

i don't know if his father really has any importance, but i also don't know that he doesn't.

i'd label that as "outside my field of expertise" and let the rest of the community judge it.

2 hours later…

6:58 PM

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Q: Should we allow "Why does God..." type questions?

Often, questions appear which are asking about God's wisdom behind allowing or forbidding certain things. While I'm sure there's some fair degree of philosophical study and debate on these, I don't see that such questions are really suitable for this site: Without explicit authoritative proof (e...

discussion scope philosophy

7:48 PM

@yasar11732 to repeat a part of what goldPseudo said that in general the family of the Prophet is on-topic for this site, but the Aalul Bait (آل البيت) it is not limited to just his descendants but is not just limited to his descendants, but all of his family, Banu Hasmin and Banu Mutalib in general. So questions (in my opinion) about the Aalul Bait is definitely on-topic for this site, though I do not see the significance of that question except for the historical.

so in short, I don't think that question is off-topic, but maybe a little low quality

1 hour later…

9:10 PM

@AlUmmat Do you know how to find an hadith referenced as "Muslim Vol. 1 Pg. 271-2 #1094" in sunnah.com?

@yasar11732 no I don't, I can try though, also do you know what the hadith is about?

Yes, I know the english text

kalamullah.com/one.html

You can search for Muslim Vol 1

It starts as, I had a servant girl

@yasar11732 ah yes, I know this hadith

on sunnah.com it is in book 5

let me get the link

That page says vol. 1 but sunnah.com list it as book 5, do you know why there is a difference?

@yasar11732 Saheeh muslim separated the parts, one part is called "كتاب" or book, and under it is "أبواب" translated as doors, but also means chapters. You can see this in most if not all books of Hadith, as well as in books of Fiqh and of that sort

9:20 PM

So, the hadith is in vol. 1 and chapter 5?

vol I believe is what they use in the translation, for example you might see an english translation book of saheeh msulim and on the front it says "VOL.IV"

I think ordering of original and translation is very different

Reference : Sahih Muslim 538 b
In-book reference : Book 5, Hadith 42
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 4, Hadith 1097
(deprecated numbering scheme)

link: sunnah.com/muslim/5/39

That page doesn't mention the grade of that hadith, but since it is sahih muslim, I think it is sahih right?

@yasar11732 there is no need to mention the grade of the hadith in Bukari or Muslim as there is no doubt about the grades of the ahadeeth in the two books

9:48 PM

Does this answer look good?

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A: Basically, is “sexual intercourse “ a positive or negative action? (with wife)

According to a hadith in Sahih Muslim, fullfilling sexual desires in lawful way is rewarded. See the following hadith (emphasize mine): حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَسْمَاءَ الضُّبَعِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا مَهْدِيُّ بْنُ مَيْمُونٍ، حَدَّثَنَا وَاصِلٌ، مَوْلَى أَبِي عُيَيْنَةَ ...

@yasar11732 looks great, that was exactly what I was going to use to answer the question before I had to go to Jumu'ah, but I forgot when I came back and you got to it first :)

Going to jumu'ah? What time is it there?

@yasar11732 no no, I am back from Jumu'ah, it is 6:00 here

You must be in USA or Canada, or Mexico maybe?

@yasar11732 I am currently in north America

10:02 PM

In Turkey, it is 01:02 in the morning of saturday.

@AlUmmat Are you here?

10:19 PM

@yasar11732 yes

I forgot what I was going to ask :)

sorry

@yasar11732 no problem, i do that myself sometimes :)

Daif means weak hadith right?

@yasar11732 yes

ok

sunnah.com/urn/1250500

I am looking for a good hadith, if such exist, telling that actions/repetence of those who practice bid'ah will not be accepted

10:28 PM

@yasar11732 i don't know of such a hadith, i do know the hadith which mentions that Bid'ah basically leads to hell fire, but that sound like a good question for the site

This page: kalamullah.com/one.html mentions two such hadiths, but I can't find those on sunnah.com

@yasar11732 Sunnah.com does not have Attabarani

Do you know any online source containing Attabarani?

the hadith: إن الله حجب التوبة عن صاحب كل بدعة
Allah has veiled repentance from the person of Bid'ah

is authentic, and has been graded as Saheeh by Al Albani

but the part:

حتى يدع بدعته
Until he leaves his Bid'ah, has been graded as Da'eef by Al Albani

Where did you find those information?

10:37 PM

@yasar11732 In English? I do not. In Arabic? yes.

@yasar11732 fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/…

Also Assilsilah Assaheeha may be useful

but I don't know where it is in that book

if it is in there

I am trying to formulate a question about the status of layman who practices bid'ah

@yasar11732 I look forward to seeing it, but to note: if by layman you mean someone who doesn't have enough knowledge to distinguish something as Bid'ah then they are excused as long as they don't have the knowledge or have been told by a scholar they trust

What proof do you have for this?

@yasar11732 let me look

11:06 PM

@yasar11732 أن المُبتدع إذا كان جاهلاً جهلاً يُعذر به لا يقع عليه الإثم إلا بعد بلوغ الحجة الصحيحة وثبوت الخطاب الشرعي في حقه وهذا يدعو إلى التريث وعدم الاستعجال في الحكم واتخاذ المواقف (source: alifta.net/Fatawa/… )

simply put, the meaning is:

If the Mubtadi' is is truly ignorant with the ignorance that is excusable, then the sin does not fall unto him except after being told clear correct authentic proofs.

and then it goes on to say that this means that it is not good to be hasty in judgement of such a person and taking sides etc.

What happens to people who knows about a bid'ah but not tell people about them?

Does it say anything about it?

sorry, I was doing something

@yasar11732 well I don't know what it says about it, but I assume it falls under the ruling of those who have knowledge but do not let people know or keep their knowledge to themselves

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