Charcoal HQ - 2014-04-14

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Annonomus Person

12:02 AM

@Undo have you ever thought of figuring out a way to get a ton of flags and their results: denied/etc. and then put that in a database, and then flag anything that's 90%+ similar? We might be able to revive Charcoal if we test with small batches to see if it works, and then submit it on meta and see if they would approve of such a thing...

They said that if we found an algorithm that worked good they would use it and destroy them all at once.

Name idea: Dynamite

@AnnonomusPerson That's what we were thinking of doing, but the thing is how? I was thinking machine learning... but that's a lot of work.

Dec 31 '13 at 23:17, by hichris123

Get the text of all of the valid flags, find matches of words and such

@Annon ^ Look around there

Annonomus Person

12:26 AM

@hichris123 Not that much... I'm researching AI for a project. It's just finding patterns....

Looks for libraries

Hey: let me point this out right now... if I help create this and SE buys it, I get a chunk of the $$$.

:P

@hichris → php.net/manual/en/function.similar-text.php

Never mind "PHP is great" & "MYSQL" = 27%?!?!

"" & "" = 0%

If you switch them around, you'll get different results.

^ Go watch that. Now.

This is why we need to switch to metric.

Annonomus Person

12:44 AM

@Undo Lol

@Undo No!!!!!!!

@AnnonomusPerson Huh.

Annonomus Person

I've never heard of most of those measurements... feet, inches, miles, and yards.

@Undo Hmm... do you think you could badger Shog to give us a database of deleted comments?

perhaps

Annonomus Person

Not public...

12:46 AM

but there's nothing saying he would bestow them upon me.

Annonomus Person

@hichris You did read below the link.

@AnnonomusPerson ... I didn't really get what you meant.

@AnnonomusPerson Nah, we could keep it private.

@Undo well, you can try.

Annonomus Person

It detects the %... it's not really accurate.

Let's build an engine before we ask for the content.

If we think of a good idea, that'll help us out and if we can't figure out how to start, Shog might get mad.

@AnnonomusPerson Meh.

Hopefully we'll get Tim's spam database soon...

Annonomus Person

@hichris123 ???

12:48 AM

56

Q: Would anyone care for some processed meat-like substance with a gelatinous glaze?

Something sort of magic happened a short time ago, sometimes a graph is worth a thousand flags: That's right, around March 28, the spam protection layer blocked about 20,000 spam attempts, mostly in the form of suggested edits, while users didn't see much of an increase in what they had to fl...

discussion spam-prevention

Annonomus Person

@hichris123 We should at least start on it. Like I said, the function isn't that reliable

9

A: Would anyone care for some processed meat-like substance with a gelatinous glaze?

Yes. This. We in Charcoal HQ have Smoke Detector, a chatbot that hooks into the the realtime question feed and runs some Doorknob-inspired regexes to detect spam. Note that it's kinda not working right now, because servers, but nevermind about that. Anyway, with data like this we could, in theo...

@AnnonomusPerson We can probably find a better library.

Annonomus Person

@hichris123 We need to find one I'd imagine to submit.

@AnnonomusPerson Hmm... let's find one!

Annonomus Person

@hichris123 Dibs on project manager :P

web.archive.org/web/20080506155528/http://software.zuavra.net/…

@hichris ^ Something like that?

12:56 AM

@AnnonomusPerson It'll be all of us, probably. Most likely hosted on GitHub via Charcoal-SE.

:D

Annonomus Person

I said manager, :)

That'd be pointless to have five managers.

@AnnonomusPerson Kinda... though we need the percentage of diff.

@AnnonomusPerson Meh. :P

what are we doing?

It feels like someone's starting a project.

Annonomus Person

@Undo Automagic Charcoal 2.0 stuffys

With AI!

ooooh

12:57 AM

Dec 31 '13 at 23:17, by hichris123

Get the text of all of the valid flags, find matches of words and such

Basically that idea.

Oh, I'm too late. :(

we already got in trouble with Charcoal. Remember?

Annonomus Person

I wanna call it Dynamite

and now we're giving it a brain?

@Undo No, not autoflag.

Annonomus Person

@Undo Lol more machine learning.

12:57 AM

ah, okay

Give to Shog/CM/meta.

yeah, that'd work

Annonomus Person

Try to integrate it in SE itself.

say, another project I wanted to start:

just a minute

Annonomus Person

We'll have a lot of false negatives, but better than nothing.

@hichris123 We could adapt that library and modify the code to instead add a percentage based on character counts.

12:59 AM

nltk.org looks like we could run titles through it and maybe try to do some statistical analysis on them, maybe find some patterns.

Annonomus Person

Even though: Hi Chris & Chris Hi = 0%

Download nltk and play with it locally, it's awesome

@Undo Ooh, Python?

yeah

That would work.

1:00 AM

you need NumPy too for some stuff

rofl @Annon do lowercase letters make you sad?

Annonomus Person

On Proper Nouns, yes.

Disney.

:D

Annonomus Person

>:)

:( Shakes in fear of ♦ hammer

1:03 AM

I shall protect you, @hichris123

@Undo :P

it's working!

wants lock option for chat messages

hmmm

I know!

Annonomus Person

>:-D

@Undo Pings bothering you, eh?

Just a minute, @hichris123. Try to hold him off for a little while longer

Annonomus Person

1:05 AM

Not my ♦!!!

room parent site changed to softwarerecs.stackexchange.com

ROTFL

Annonomus Person

:)

room mode changed to Private: only approved users may enter this room (this should only be used for moderation purposes)

rofl

1:05 AM

We win, @hichris123 :D

How long should we make him wait?

You need to kick, @Undo.

can't

@AnnonomusPerson can you hear me?

@Undo Put him in the penalty box for 30 min, & change parent site.

>:D

hehe

I'll let him back in

room mode changed to Public: anyone may enter and talk

moderation purposes

:P

1:07 AM

I'm a moderator, and it was my purpose.

@Annon Oy.

Annonomus Person

Back.

rofl

that was fun

room parent site changed to default (no parent site)

Annonomus Person

That was fun.

Oh, @Undo we should have oneboxed a message in the Tavern while it was private. :P

Annonomus Person

1:08 AM

Sorry @hichris for getting punished for @Undo's issues :P

@hichris123 yeah, that works.

Annonomus Person

@Undo No.

I can't hear you.

Good

Annonomus Person

What?

Mod wars are fun

Annonomus Person

1:10 AM

Hehe

gtg, cya.

Good luck @hichris123 :P

Annonomus Person

So @hichris Engine idea:

@Undo Aww. :(

Annonomus Person

- First, we break it up into sentences. Then, we break it up word by word to try to get the meaning of it. We remove simple words (pronouns, helping verbs, etc.) and then compare each sentence with a database. We then score it and decide if it's worth it.

For example, if it's related to a obsolete comment, it's -2 points. If it's bound to a "good" comment that's not removed (we'll have to filter these), we do +10. If it's borderline, it should be flagged: deleted if very low and left if high.

We do regular "audits" to improve accuracy and if something fails an audit we can search related 'bad' items and delve into the information.

Also, we might want to replace some common words for the post only (Java, SQL injection, etc.) with "$topic"

That way we can expand onto other topics with little data in the DB and get accurate results.

And we'll need Dy-flags and SE-flags... both reviewed manually and inputted back into the engine.

Sounds doable @hichris123? ^

Oh yeah, no auto-deletion if it's over 300 chars. A flag, maybe?

@AnnonomusPerson Huh, seems hard but doable.

Annonomus Person

1:19 AM

I'm horrible at UI and such (efficiently), but I'm great with SQL and such; I think I could build a few PHP pages that will grab content and then process it.

Like scoring and all.

We could have it all streamlined with a AL (if I'm using this term correctly) where we have a set of instructions that I'll make the methods for and you can call for the UI to get content from a DB or to flag something.

I am back

@Undo Shog plz?

Annonomus Person

Ohh: new idea! For a reviewer we can weigh their score influence by SE reputation network-wide and their work on the project (mods/DyMods are automatically at full power)

@hichris123 Not yet. We need to create something concrete.

We're asking for a lot here.

@hichris123 I'm not gonna poke him :P

Meh, true.

@Undo You want to poke a severed head? :P

1:23 AM

I wanna wait until we get that spam data. I really wanna see what NLTK can do.

@Undo Poke Tim, then. :P

heh

I... don't really feel like poking anyone right now :P

Poke yourself!

Annonomus Person

@Undo @hichris Can either of you find a list of "filler words" like pronouns and articles?

@hichris123 [Poke you!]

@Undo [Poke!]

@AnnonomusPerson Can you give me another fire-related cool name?

For an NLTK experiment

Annonomus Person

1:26 AM

@Undo I said Dynamite earlier but IDK

Wait nooo not Dynamite

@Undo Yay caps!

:P

@Undo Campfire? Singe? Inferno?

hmmm

Maybe we can start using some geology/chemistry based names.

Annonomus Person

blaze, bonfire, heat, inferno, campfire, charring, coals, combustion, conflagration, devouring, element, embers, flames, flare, glow, hearth, holocaust, incandescence, luminosity, oxidation, phlogiston, pyre, scintillation, scorching, searing, sparks, tinder, warmth, flame and smoke, hot spot, rapid oxidation, sea of flames, up in smoke

thesaurus.com/browse/fire

Flare.

Gonna use that.

Annonomus Person

Okay.

3 mins ago, by Annonomus Person

@Undo @hichris Can either of you find a list of "filler words" like pronouns and articles?

must be one on Wikipedia

why do you need it?

Annonomus Person

1:29 AM

Building Dy-engine

@Undo Fix the blaze session timeouts plz?

@hichris123 session timeouts?

hmmm

@Undo Yeah.

Annonomus Person

looks on Wikipedia

... why do you have to cite the book @Undo?

1:33 AM

Because they say to

@hichris123 try now

set it to 12 hours

Annonomus Person

@Undo can't find it on Wikipedia

I dunno

Annonomus Person

Hmm any idea where to look?

nope

Annonomus Person

Most common words in English

The list below of most common words in English cannot be definitive. It is based on an analysis of the Oxford English Corpus of over a billion words, and represents one study done by Oxford Online, associated with the Oxford English Dictionary. This source includes writings of all sorts from "literary novels and specialist journals to everyday newspapers and magazines and from Hansard to the language of chatrooms, emails, and weblogs", unlike some sources which use texts from only specific sources. The Reading Teachers Book of Lists claims that the first 25 words make up about one-third ...

englishclub.com/vocabulary/common-words-5000.htm

Hmmm...

englishclub.com/vocabulary/common-words.htm

Ahh....

Dynamite: Some ideas (Plus mod wars D:)

2 hours ago, 1 hour 37 minutes total – 195 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 7 secs ago by Annonomus Person

My new project ^

1:41 AM

:D

Annonomus Person

Gotta go.... bye!

(Almost typed "byte")

[Blaze] answer flagged by hichris123: stackoverflow.com/questions/19887783/…

[Blaze] answer flagged by hichris123: stackoverflow.com/questions/18507351/…

@AnnonomusPerson pastebin.com/Az5Y65m6

@AnnonomusPerson dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/fulltext-stopwords.html

@AnnonomusPerson ranks.nl/stopwords

2:25 AM

Oy @michaelb958.

@hichris123 That was the weirdest chat notification sound ever.

sigh stackoverflow.com/users/857004/scottmcgready?tab=activity

@michaelb958 It is?

@ScottMcGready Please don't just fix one thing in a post when editing. Fix everything (grammar, formatting, tags, etc). — hichris123 12 secs ago

@hichris123 Just plain weird.

3:01 AM

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/1119841/…

Almost to 3k helpful flags. :D

[Blaze] answer flagged by hichris123: stackoverflow.com/questions/9770482/…

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/20508298/…

3:27 AM

[Blaze] answer flagged by Seth: stackoverflow.com/questions/17494624/…

8 hours later…

Qantas 94 Heavy

11:30 AM

@hichris123: Hiya! what's your current helpful/declined ratio? I'm very close to 3k without using Blaze/Charcoal, just want a comparison between traditional methods and this :)

For me: 2953/340/44 (helpful/disputed/declined) :p

1 hour later…

12:44 PM

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/2389258/…

1 hour later…

2:11 PM

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/23061987/…

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/19811468/best-jquery-modal-overlay/…

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/16769997/…

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/23062322/vim-isnt-loading-syntax/…

2 hours later…

4:10 PM

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, 6 mins ago, by Bart

/me now imagines @Undo as part of a large circus family

@hichris123 ^ when you get back

@Qantas94Heavy 4588/142/67 for me

4:48 PM

hi

can i ask one question related to sql injection?

..

go for it, @Anant

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/20746125/…

i am confused abt where to sanitize the form post data. I mean i can follow two approaches . I can do this in controller and and i can do this in Model. But if i do it in controller, i can't use bind params in model. because it escapes the quote two times.

@Anant Are you using PHP?

i am asking this for perl and postgres

4:54 PM

ah

I... don't know

ohh

no problem

Good luck finding a solution ;)

ok .. can you suggest me irrespective of any language

thanks

Ideally, I would put sanitation in the model.

i mean if my concerned is in term of MVC

ok here the question :)

you said Ideally

so if somehow you used in Controller , can you use bind params or quote function in your model ?

4:57 PM

I don't know

ok

thanks

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/18127123/…

2 hours later…

6:47 PM

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/23065097/…

1 hour later…

8:06 PM

Oy.

@Undo rofl

@Qantas94Heavy 2982/13/39

@Qantas94Heavy But you have 10k tools, right?

Annonomus Person

8:27 PM

Thanks @Andy!

You're welcome

Annonomus Person

@hichris Debating if I should sign up for Blaze or not:

- If I make a bad flag, it'll be on the record

- @Undo could get my IP and email (with my name) if he looked (although not much worse than SR) :P

@AnnonomusPerson Name should just be your SE username.

Annonomus Person

- I could put a bunch of diamonds in it and annoy people with it (ex: Username - @hichris123 @Undo ~Anno!

So it would say:

> ...by @hichris123 @Undo ~Anno!:...

@hichris123 No from my email... although I could use one of the emails I set up to annoy customer support reps by changing my name and email halfway into the call when they are giving me bad service... :P

uhh I mean.... uhhh :P

Yay my desoldering iron came in the mail today!

8:51 PM

It's actually very awesome, Jin came up with a great concept that illustrates the nature of the site, I can't wait for everyone to see it (I'm quite fond of it). Don't want to spoil the surprise! — Tim Post ♦ 6 hours ago

cough

[Blaze] answer flagged by hichris123: stackoverflow.com/questions/20489114/…

Annonomus Person

9:50 PM

@hichris123 Idea: a script that automatically fixes errors in posts and makes you verify the changes are good?

- Capitalize all first letters of a sentence (marked by a "." not in quotes or similar)

- Capitalize "i" and "php"/"javascript"/"css"/etc.

- Look for code (this might be hard) and make it code

- Fix sentences like this: "I don't understand .my problem is simple ." (Some people write like this, actually.)

That would cover a good portion of the repetitive tasks and then you could just make a few minor edits and submit.

That would be a good idea.

But Undo doesn't want to have API tokens. :(

Annonomus Person

I don't have time... and I'm not good with scripts.

@hichris123 Hmm?

I mean like a browser extention

/Grease Monkey script.

someone did that

search stackapps

Annonomus Person

Opens new tab

15

Q: SOStacked: Stack Exchange iPhone client

Screenshots About Awesome feature set. Powerful search, beautiful display Pick your favorite and ignored tags Log into your account, track your reputation! See your incoming answers, comments and other messages in your inbox. Stay tuned. Pick your favorite tags to build a custom ques...

GRRR DOWNVOTE!!!!!!

And this is why jmac's a great mod:

5

Q: Improving the Help Center (take two)

So prior to becoming a mod, I really wanted to update the help center. Unfortunately, we only have access to the on-topic section for free editing by default. We had a brief chit-chat amongst the mods, and had a few thoughts on what we could do to work with the tools we have (including community...

discussion help-center

Annonomus Person

10:00 PM

@Undo Can't find it

10:27 PM

@hichris123 agreed.

Annonomus Person

Hey @Undo any experience with jQuery and AJAX?

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang="en">
<head>
    <title>I love SE!</title>
    <script src="//ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.11.0/jquery.min.js" ></script>
</head>

<body>
    <div id="loginbox">
        <form class="form-signin" method="post" spellcheck="false" autocomplete="off" action="script_login.php" >
            <input id="username" type="email" class="form-control" name="username" placeholder="E-mail Address" />
        </form>
    </div>
    <script>
        document.getElementById("username").onchange = (function () {

yup

Annonomus Person

That code above isn't working right....

uhmm...

okay...

what's .load(url); supposed to do? :P

Annonomus Person

I've changed the code in the function to alert("I ♥ ♦s!"); and that worked, but the load doesn't.

@Undo api.jquery.com/load

It loads a URL :)

10:29 PM

Not familiar with such a function :P

so I probably can't help you

Annonomus Person

Okay :)

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/13284986/ccm-aes-from-linux-kernel/…

Annonomus Person

Guess no AJAX in my app :P

Annonomus Person

10:50 PM

Lol worst typo ever...

Annonomus Person

11:01 PM

@Undo I found a few problems with your login system... :/

(Accident :P)

@AnnonomusPerson Uh-oh, what now?

Annonomus Person

user image

I didn't mean to hit enter :P

But...

yes?

It's your job to make a decent password :P

Annonomus Person

That ^ :P

Wait... why isn't blaze flagging?

@Undo It was an accident!

:D

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, 6 secs ago, by Undo

status-weird-bug-and-most-certainly-not-by-design

11:06 PM

[Blaze] answer flagged by hichris123: stackoverflow.com/questions/23071671/…

^ It's working.

@Annon You can't have @'s in the username.

It's @Undo's exec or whatever.

Annonomus Person

@hichris123 It still shows me signed in...

Like I said it was an accident I was going to send you the screenshot for a joke and then... the enter key happened.

@AnnonomusPerson It's only a problem when you flag it.

Annonomus Person

Hmm... why can't I change my password? :D

github.com/Charcoal-SE/Blaze/blob/master/posttochat.php#L25

Annonomus Person

11:08 PM

Or username?

^ That doesn't like you.

@AnnonomusPerson because the code isn't there to do it :P

Annonomus Person

@hichris123 :( Feels excluded

@Undo Duh! :P

@Undo can you delete my user then? (On Blaze?)

opens database

@AnnonomusPerson whooosh

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/18476308/…

Qantas 94 Heavy

11:25 PM

@hichris123: absolutely no 10k tools, though I have way too many disputed for some reason

I looked through them and half were deleted with -5 score regardless (back in the days of one looks good clearing the queue)

@Undo: wait, Blaze is open to other users?

@Qantas94Heavy yup

erwaysoftware.com/blaze

[Blaze] answer flagged by Undo: stackoverflow.com/questions/17797479/…

Annonomus Person

@Undo Thanks!

Plays around with it still logged in :P

Nothing happens: logs out.

11:47 PM

[Blaze] answer flagged by hichris123: stackoverflow.com/questions/23050188/cant-make-menuconfig/…

Qantas 94 Heavy

@Undo: the only question is, should I trust you with my details? :P

Annonomus Person

@Qantas94Heavy He technically already has access to it.... but I'm not signing up either (except for a one-lettered passoword) :P

He's a SR ♦

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