The Whiteboard - 2013-11-19 (page 2 of 3)

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user55340

8:00 PM

Btw, @GlenH7 ...

user55340

6

Q: Who brings the croissants?

This question is inspired by a similar question first asked on StackOverflow by Florian Margaine, then asked in variant forms on CS by Gilles and on Programmers by GlenH7. This time, it's a code golf, with specific metrics for success! In an office of ten people, it's someone's turn to buy croi...

code-challenge optimization croissant

user41796

@MichaelT gotta burn those carbs off somehow. Golf is just as good of an approach as any

Seems there's a lot of 8-9k users floating around P.SE. Wonder if in ~1 year we'll have like double the current 10k users doing site maintenance

user41796

likely, yes. We've already seen an uptick in close voters & delete voters.

user55340

Saw a new 3k user in the review queue yesterday.

user41796

8:08 PM

and the "first posts" review queue keeps picking up new names as reviewers

Good stuff

I blame manicures

user55340

Means I can go to chasing related questions on bad questions to toss things into the queue rather than trying to pull them out all the time.

It may seem to be "not too popular" to you, but the popularity of this site has grown significantly over the course of the last year or so as we maintain carefully manicured content of high quality. The proof is in the pudding. — Jimmy Hoffa 1 hour ago

user55340

(I've noticed Bart has picked up quite a bit of activity since hitting 10k rep)

user41796

@JimmyHoffa The hubris of that OP's meta question. <sigh> Account open 9 months, 2 questions asked, 0 answers provided. But he knows the site best.

user55340

8:10 PM

The new 3k user in the queue...

user55340

3.1k 8 20

licensing programming-practices python web-development naming gpl programming-languages

@MichaelT A code monkey, programmers can always use more of those

@JimmyHoffa I need to switch off of Parsec (or AutoParsec) for Melody.. this is irritating

@jozefg Why are you using parsec and not attoparsec?

And what's irritating about it?

@JimmyHoffa It's the lack of a tokenizer, My parsing is only like 20% parsing, the rest is mostly "and skip this space and here's what the token looks like"

8:13 PM

I initially rewrote your parser and expression approach for kicks then didn't finish making it work with the new structure because it seemed like you were encoding two separate things in the Expr type

@JimmyHoffa It's a little clearer now hopefully, Expr is the AST but there's a notation of "evaluated" vs "non-evaluated" (value vs non-value)

The expr you have encodes token structure and type information together which seemed strange to me

@JimmyHoffa There's no types, I need some structure for lists and hashes, but all type checks are runtime (Language.Melody.Interpret.Pop)

I genericized expr to be token structure, then made a data Melody which has the different types where each types had a defined token structure, then the parser went back and forth between token structure and type info

@jozefg I mean the func/hash/list/lit/word types

Those are relevant to your AST, but tokenizing first might alleviate what you're talking about by having a separate token structure

Let me go grab what I did for defining token structure..

data Expr = Expr { exprPrefix::Expr, expr::[Melody], exprSuffix::Expr }
          | Term { term::String }
          | Terminal
          deriving(Eq)

where data Melody defined the Word/Func/Hash etc

Ah, so my Expr is you Melody, I'm not considering this type information, but rather Word, List whatever are terminals (leaves) of the AST

8:19 PM

@jozefg Yeah it just gave more parsing structure information as a separate piece from AST information

Yeah that makes sense. Btw have you looked at the MelodyM monad and closures? It's handled really nicely

Basically there's a dynamic environment for globals encoded in a state monad and closures form a reader monad

@jozefg I have been pretty busy so haven't poked at it since you first posted it. Meant to go look around some more. I did look at your general REPL and such and was pretty cool. Unfortunately I can't compile it because I'm on x64 and stupidly compiled GHC on machine to have latest-greatest, but in x64 the compilation happens to have a bit of a severe bug (soon to be fixed) regarding the way MinGW links things; this bug breaks various packages including lens

Ah, that sucks :( Yeah I run head on linux and it's actually reasonably stable. (Ironic since SPJ works at MSR)

I was able to get all the other dependencies to sit there and run pieces of the package, but I can't install lens to compile the whole package

I think I use lens for precisely 3 functions right now. The bytecode portion is still in whiteboard phase but is much more lensy

Unfortunately, I must dash. Bye!

8:24 PM

@jozefg Yeah a lot of it comes down to C/C++ on MS is a wreck. Open source solutions are meh because no open source person actually wants to do stuff for MS, and very few people who can afford visual studio will go that approach (which makes your code non-standard and impossible to cross-compile anyway)

Take it easy

user55340

I, for one, think there should only be 21 million reputation in the pool as a whole. With an unlimited supply, the value of my reputation does nothing but decline. — Nick T 4 mins ago

user55340

@NickT - I'll give you some of mine, for bitcoins. — Oded 3 mins ago

user55340

@Oded is it that delicious SO rep? Or the fluffy unicorn poo MSO rep? I hope it's not any of that P.SE rep - people make fun of those rep points. — MichaelT 1 min ago

user55340

@MichaelT - it could be Anime rep. Or The Workplace rep. — Oded 1 min ago

RP = RolePlay, they think we should wear more funny costumes and type with old-timey accents I guess? — Jimmy Hoffa 15 secs ago

user55340

8:30 PM

@JimmyHoffa I was kind of poking fun at Oded's rep points...

user55340

(and my own)

user55340

user image

user55340

Now... Area 51 rep... hmm.

@MichaelT wait wait wait... he has 31337 P.SE rep? ...31337? really?

user55340

You know you've gotta fix that.

8:34 PM

That has to be an "I can poke the database because I work here" artifact...

@MichaelT Fixed. Now we'll see if it goes back tomorrow when his nightly fix-my-rep t-sql job kicks off

user41796

he just picked up 10 more to go to 31347 approximately 30 seconds ago

Alright weird, I just checked the clock to see where I was in the day and it's 13:37 O_O

user41796

user image

@GlenH7 He had a picture of a genuine punchcard, that alone deserves an upvote.

user41796

wasn't quibbling. Just noting. His time at 31337 was pretty short.

8:37 PM

@GlenH7 I don't believe that's an accident, I don't believe that for a second.

user55340

Hmm... 5x downvotes... would that get me noticed by the serial downvoter script?

user41796

@MichaelT likely, yes

user41796

I think 3 is the threshold

user55340

@GlenH7 Yep - the 3/4 boundary... though there are likely some other heuristics tossed in there too.

user55340

I think there's a "other votes mixed in" and "time between votes" and "overall voting pattern between these user" tossed in for seasoning.

8:40 PM

@MichaelT absolutely yes, revoke all but two of these and return tomorrow

it is worth noting that, as opposed to SO / active tags, at smaller sites cases like that would be more accurate to qualify as content-targeted (ie legitimate, as opposed to abusive user-targeted, intended to be dealt with by vote reversal script). When crap-bomber unloads their answers, those looking at slowly changing active tab at front page of the smaller sites are literally forced to see the new content to vote on - it's not like when one picks a user profile and bulldozes over their posts — gnat Oct 3 at 17:54

user55340

@gnat I was joking - I don't think I have an oded dv's in my history.

user55340

(I have absolutely no desire to serial dv anyone)

if you don't, keep in mind that your safe daily dose against this user will be likely no more than 1 DV...

5

A: What can I do if I'm the victim of serial downvoting?

Addressing a specific concern expressed in a duplicate question - note that based on details of a particular incident that involved serial voting, it is most likely that vote reversal script uses some data about prior abuse. In other words, the guy who serially voted you once, will have harder t...

@MichaelT oh I thought you're talking about this user: programmers.stackexchange.com/users/109165/york-cleave

I wonder how many times I'm going to get a compile error for not adding "then" in an

if boolean
end if

expression :(

user55340

There's a theory of humor (which is difficult to deliver in a deadpan of text) that its a way of saying don't do something in a positive way.

8:44 PM

he just got 5 DV-worthy posts, coincidence :)

user55340

Consider "don't sweep things under the rug" (negative way to say don't). vs the joke "Mom: Did you remember to sweep under the rug? Daughter: Yes mom, I swept everything under the rug."

user55340

The joke delivers a positive way of saying "don't do something".

user55340

Good book that gets into AI (and humor is part of it too)

user55340

amazon.com/The-Society-Mind-Marvin-Minsky/dp/0671657135

user55340

Some of his writings that I seem to recall in that book - web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/jokes.cognitive.txt

user55340

8:50 PM

@GlenH7 thanks for the edit.

user55340

One of the things with my writing (I'm out of practice from my days of writing essays and the like) is that I jump around ideas and forget to go back and proof things that I wrote before. Sometimes even forgetting to finish sentences.

in The Water Cooler, 5 mins ago, by enderland

lots of crap today. wooo

user55340

programmers.stackexchange.com/posts/218667/revisions

woo got my reviewer badge... (hush it @gnat, just be glad I got it at all :P)

@JimmyHoffa need moar reviews (congrats by the way)

user55340

8:53 PM

> "Yields truth when appended to its own quotation"
yields truth when appended to its own quotation.
--W. V. Quine

> This defines a Y combinator.

user55340

Hmm... didn't realize he's a real person.

user55340

Willard Van Orman Quine

Willard Van Orman Quine (June 25, 1908 – December 25, 2000) (known to intimates as "Van") was an American philosopher and logician in the analytic tradition. From 1930 until his death 70 years later, Quine was continually affiliated with Harvard University in one way or another, first as a student, then as a professor of philosophy and a teacher of logic and set theory, and finally as a professor emeritus who published or revised several books in retirement. He filled the Edgar Pierce Chair of Philosophy at Harvard from 1956 to 1978. A recent poll conducted among analytic philosophers na...

@RobertHarvey Any idea what that guy is talking about with data storage?

He's slightly overthinking it, I think

9:02 PM

I put an "unclear" CV on it. If he fixes it to make some sense I'll retract but right now it's a "Huh?"

The only guess I have is that he's talking about how the data is stored in memory for a given class? At which point that relates to a language compilers implementation and has some relation to the language features... but I don't think that's what he's asking...

Filed under "Second System Effect:"

0

Q: Interface at the class or function level?

I have been falling into a pattern lately where I have been defining routines that rely on an interface defined by a function that is specified as a parameter to the routine. (The language is C#, but this can be applied to any language with first-class functions.) For example, I have an API that...

design-patterns interfaces lambda closures

@RobertHarvey He's just doing some FP and asking "Wait, nobody else does this but for some reason I want to.. is this ok?"

I think it is, his reasoning is sound, I think however he's adding too much abstraction if he is going to work in a team

He seems to understand the fundamental concepts he's working with; the idea makes sense: By using closures like he is he gets a finer grained responsibility in each piece because he can compose the varying pieces.

But why all the indirection? Why not just call the repository methods directly, instead of punting them to lambda expressions?

Without using closures he can't have one function define the where query and another function define the update execution

the closures give him the ability to compose actions like that which are defined separately, if he didn't use the closures those two queries would have to be in the same function which makes a single function more responsible

I dare say he's writing combinators

It sounds to me like he's trying to redefine Linq.

9:09 PM

There whole purpose is to be miniscule small

@RobertHarvey Yes that too

Though there may be good reason: can he use linq? who knows if he's allowed. also the way he's doing it ensures his repository stuff get's used at higher levels which are more restrictive combinators than the full-scale linq

you wouldn't want linq to be touched in your models, but his repository combinators could be composed in his models without feeling like it violates separation of concerns

Actually, from his comments, it sounds like he wants to write a repository without hard-coding the table and field names.

combinators exist to be tiny bits of logic you can compose together (think select, where, orderby etc) they're useless on their own but composed together they do larger things

In a type-safe way, ideally.

It sounds like you want to write a repository without having to hard-code the table and field names. You can do that, but it's turtles all the way down; you have to specify that information eventually, and the way you're abstracting it, you'll be doing it in magic strings, and not strongly-typed objects. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago

@RobertHarvey I don't get that at all, his comment you're referring to what he's saying is he's got an update delegate that will update some given fields without having to do the query for those fields so you can use queryById or queryByName or queryByAge and hand any of those smaller query combinators into the single update implementation

as opposed to having an updateByName and updateByAge and updateById etc methods as well as correlating query methods for consumers to do general querying with

So what he's really looking to do is to write a poor-man's generalized repository, without all of the bells and whistles that Linq provides.

9:15 PM

the OO approach is that you just make the 3 methods and each one underneath just calls the correlated query method, his approach is to only have one update method and separate query methods for each etc

@RobertHarvey Yes. Again though there is some reason there: Do you want to give full-unrestricted-linq to your model layer? His combinators give him the ability to restrict what is usable at the model layer.

Do you think this is a NoSQL application?

I guess I should ask.

I think it's pretty clever myself what he's doing, but I would never do it in a team environment unless I knew for certain the team would accept FP and learn it and be ok with requiring future maintainers understand general FP. In other words; I would never do it in a team environment at all :)

It's slightly more complex with all those lambda expressions; it might make more sense in a lispy environment.

@RobertHarvey I can read it plain as day, but like I said, I wouldn't do it in a team environment explicitly because I know in .NET you're rare to find anyone else who can

thinking about future maintainers is the big caveat to me. if it was F# sure, future maintainers will be FP folk, but given C# you have to recognize pretty much everyone doing C# is going to be quite unfamiliar with that 5 or 10 years from now when you leave

@RobertHarvey give him an upvote if you want him to join here; I did.

So the repository is a patch-bay of sorts. Where do all of the functions that are being passed come from? Are they just more methods in the repository? What would one look like?

He needs 20 rep, doesn't he?

9:20 PM

@RobertHarvey Aye.

@RobertHarvey Let me see if I can make a silly example up (from my understanding, which may not match what he's actually doing)...

user41796

@RobertHarvey are you referring to the Q from Jeremyx? He has ~40 rep on SO and ~50 on Area51. So he can jump into chat if he wants.

user55340

@RobertHarvey Make a bookmark, add it to a comment and encourage him to get 20 rep by asking or answering good questions and join us here?

@GlenH7 OK.

Mixin Modules and Computational Eﬀects

user41796

And now the rest of us non-FP folk will tune out for a bit. :-D

You're right Hoffa, I'm trying to use smaller delegates to compose together larger pieces of functionality.

user41796

9:31 PM

@Jeremyx - you can tag someone in chat with an @ in front of their name. Recent names will also autocomplete. And welcome to chat, btw. :-)

I updated the question and I hope now it's clear that I'm asking how I can possibly accomplish what I am using closures with interfaces proper. (Thanks @GlenH7)

Be careful, this place is a trap

user41796

@JimmyHoffa, @RobertHarvey - just pinging you in case you have multiple tabs open and didn't see @Jeremyx join us.

user41796

@enderland don't give away all of our secrets

9:32 PM

Hello guys. Are any of the 'founders' of "programmers.stackexchange" here?

The founders?

user image

Not that guy

He's the founder of StackExchange itself

I'm talking specifically about this part of SE

Hmm.. Who originally proposed Not Programming Related?

@RobertHarvey @Jeremyx

gist.github.com/JimmyHoffa/7552976

my guess of what you're talking about

@Joe Short story: it's a long story.

@JimmyHoffa Holy crap. You did all that in 5 minutes?

9:34 PM

@RobertHarvey Yeah

@Jeremyx have a read here: codewonderings.blogspot.com/2013/03/… and let me know if that makes sense and squares with your understanding of the little pieces you're putting together(ish)

user41796

@Joe This was the original proposal on Area51: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/3352/not-programming-related But it's a complicated story, to put it mildly.

proposed by Adam Davis.

Adam Davis, Ann Arbor, MI

2.8k 1 7 16

business career-development communication evaluation exception-handling exceptions management

the sound when your username is pinged is weird here :P like a hollow cow bell

We always need more cowbell here.

9:36 PM

@RobertHarvey @Jeremyx the real nice part about this compositional approach when it comes specifically to database stuff is what we all know about LINQ and I'm guessing that @Jeremyx is doing on his side: The closures all get executed inside of a single execution context rather than being multiple open datacontext->do something->close context round trips. LINQ does this by taking your query and composing it all together into a single SQL query, though this delegate approach doesn't quite do that

Thanks for the link @JimmyHoffa I'll take a look.

Well i'm gonna have to propose this in Area51, but I feel that the name for this site isn't appropriate

Ah, that old chestnut again.

41

Q: Renaming the site to match its FAQ or changing the FAQ to match the site name?

This site is called programmers.stackexchange, while the FAQ states that this site is about "conceptual questions about software development". Since a large number of people never read the FAQ, or don't read it before posting, this means we have a community of people that think the site is about...

discussion site-attributes

@Joe No shit. This has been argued back and forth every which way up and down around Meta but it doesn't matter. What's done is done is basically the responses around P.SE.

user55340

@RobertHarvey (and all the linked questions to that one - meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/linked/… )

9:39 PM

Whether you agree or disagree with the name, the horses are beaten, you'll find them no more for the beating was severe.

2

Won't that kill the site itself? I mean they want 90% of traffic to come from search engines, so how will it when the site title doesn't really explain the purpose of this site.

user41796

@Joe If you really must do so, then I guess I would say "go ahead." But I would really, really, really encourage you to do all the research that you can before you do so. It's your best shot at being listened to.

user55340

@Joe The thing is... we do get traffic, and more of it than we did back when it was NPR.

user55340

NPR:

@MichaelT NPR? Definition?

user41796

9:41 PM

@Joe explain to me then how "Amazon" drives traffic by the site name? A name is just a name in many ways.

user55340

user image

People will ask off-topic questions, regardless of the name of the site.

user55340

P.SE with moderation:

user55340

user image

Aah you guys make good points.

user55340

9:42 PM

36

A: why are the best questions the ones which have been closed?

tl;dr We already tried supporting those questions, we even gave them their own site. Sadly, it didn't work out. C'est la vie. 3 years ago, a Stack Exchange site called Not Programming Related came out of Area51, the Stack Exchange staging zone. NPR was supposed to be a site where questions t...

Can't contest that.

@RobertHarvey @Jeremyx haskell.org/haskellwiki/Monads_as_containers <-- LINQ is a monad, this is why when you continually add more and more where's and filters and different bits and bobbles onto a LINQ query it still results in a single query even though you composed multiple queries, it collapses them into one. This is the key to giving that combinator approach value if you want to move forward with it @Jeremyx.

user41796

@Joe As @JimmyHoffa so eloquently stated - this has all been hashed to death.

user55340

@GlenH7 death.hashCode() ?

@GlenH7 It went far past death

9:43 PM

zombies

can't kill em

user41796

@enderland just gotta moderate 'em

(funny, I'm listening to a song from Pirates about the undead - coincidence? I THINK NOT)

@enderland So @Joe is a zombie? That sounds like an appropriate understanding, everybody get an axe...

Are any of you guys frequent guests on the SO chatrooms itself? Like C++ or Python or JavaScript? I haven't seen any of you there.

@Joe I occasionally visit the C++ room. But I put on my flame-proof underwear first.

user55340

9:44 PM

Robert might show up there, but his blue name scares people over there... I tend to avoid the SO rooms.

@Joe P.SE is more conceptual stuff, I think most here prefer working at the high level than worrying about the language details

user41796

@Joe Most of us in here generally stay on P.SE as SO tends to be fairly high turnover.

user55340

The questions they deal with aren't as... interesting as those we get here.

user41796

like Linq really just being a backdoor to inject FP into OOP style C#.

@GlenH7 Don't bait me into pasting the Haskell report signatories in here again..

9:46 PM

SO ==> Code no workee, how fix? P.SE ==> Monads, yum.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Did they correct their mistake and finally get your name added?

user55340

@RobertHarvey And beer... and cooking...

@GlenH7 The only copy of the haskell report with my name on it is the one I printed and taped to my wall...one can dream...

@RobertHarvey are you trying to say this site never gets code no workee, how fix?

@RobertHarvey Broken code is boring, working code is far more interesting

@enderland For the most part this site migrates all of those pretty quickly

user55340

9:47 PM

@enderland Site? or room? We get it here too... but its rare.

@enderland Sure it does. We promptly close them.

user41796

@enderland it doesn't stick around for long. Back to that active moderation thingy

@JimmyHoffa I noticed that I can't answer some SO questions as good as I can answer some of the questions here. I may lack the analytical skills some of the SO maestros have for detailed coding solutions

woah highlight chain. don't offend the programmers mgods!

user41796

@Joe the culture around the two sites is significantly different. There have been a couple of challenges with relatively high-rep SO users having to acclimate to the expectations of P.SE with what qualifies as a good answer. We like to see solid explanations behind the code.

user41796

9:49 PM

@enderland Just stay on the good side of the blue names. Italics names are purely for decorative purposes.

To be effective at answering questions on Stack Overflow, you have to be actively working with the technology that they're asking about. Otherwise, you get pummeled by the experts that are already there.

@GlenH7 I seem to fit in better here though. I'll stick around on this side of the pond, where I can make decent contributions above all the noise.

There's more time to think here.

user55340

We also don't need to be the FGITW on P.SE... a good answer may come in a day or two later (or longer). People aren't often doing the "quick answer, accept, and forget" on P.SE

@RobertHarvey That reminds me of a time last week where I was trying to explain to this 1 person about the conceptual aspects of the thing this person was trying to do. In the end, they failed (and I failed) to pass over the idea of achieving the end goal.

@RobertHarvey So you're admitting that SE is a race to best answer? It seemed like a silently agreed-upon community habit.

user55340

9:53 PM

SO is. You often see significant jockeying for the first answer (answer quickly and short, and then keep editing to get the right answer as you get upvotes, until its accepted).

Programming gods:
Semicolon, god of termination and segregation. Likes: Killing things Dislikes: Unsatisfactory intermixing Minions: Backslash subgod of escaping
Curlybrace, god of congregation. Likes: sharing spaces Dislikes: poor tabbing practices Allies: Recursion, god of gods.

user55340

On P.SE, I may read a question while at work, think about it, go home... think about it, post an answer... its not a race anymore.

@MichaelT Do you know why it has come down to this? I was thinking rep driven by employers looking to hire could be a reason.

Sad to say, many of the folks on SO aren't thinkers. They're ADHD teenagers trying to learn programming at the speed of text messaging.

2

user55340

@enderland everything2.com/title/Traffic+Light+Gods -- everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Casual+Gods

9:55 PM

@RobertHarvey I can learn to program by SMS? I am intrigued!

This looks interesting too: answers.onstartups.com

@MichaelT I'm given to think programming gods needs to be added to these...

@JimmyHoffa Ever heard of a guy draw up a business plan via SMS?

user55340

@Joe People want rep (if it is a hiring criteria or not... though all things else being equal, a 300 rep person vs a 30k rep person on SO... the rep may give the edge... depends on how competitive the market is).

user55340

There's a lot of "must collect them all" in any game / gamification site. Its how it works. You want the rep.

user55340

9:58 PM

@JimmyHoffa You would need a terse language - golfscript.com/golfscript

I did see one startup guy openly try to recruit someone else on the chat itself. It was rather weird, but I guess the startup guy (likely in his twenties) believed SO rep counted as a reason to employ.

user41796

@RobertHarvey - Just an FYI, the MI proselytizing question has been locked so it can cool off.

user41796

@MichaelT we all know it's really in the badges.

@GlenH7 Yeah, I probably poked that bear a bit longer than I should have.

@GlenH7 Locked? It's closed.

The lock is kind of irrelevant at that point (in general), no?

10:01 PM

The "social" factor comes into play here in this gamification scenario. A lot of guys without badges are possibly seeking the approval of guys with badges by getting badges of their own.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Check again. It's locked & closed. And to answer your question - the lock is relevant. Locks block additional comments. Which continued after the close...

user55340

@Joe If you don't have other metrics to evaluate a candidate on (what have you actually done) - SO score may be useful... that said, I'd be worried about that (fit in culture, work habits, etc...)

Some guys might compare to someone like @RobertHarvey , and that is what is driving the "me wants them all" situation.

user55340

Robert? Nah... we're measured in micro-skeets.

@MichaelT physical relocation too.

10:02 PM

@RobertHarvey can u halp me plz? need help nao

@JimmyHoffa It's a "too many comments" lock. The OP was still vigorously beating that dead horse as of an hour ago.

@MichaelT Micro-skeets? Those in the know measure in Nanognats, that's what really counts.

user55340

@RobertHarvey I've noticed the OP likes to have discussions about various topics.

@JimmyHoffa You only earn those when you close questions as duplicates.

@RobertHarvey O geez I thought it went lights-out earlier after my edit and the halt of others..

10:04 PM

@JimmyHoffa your GitHub account is surprisingly empty.

@Joe Nuh-uh! Yours is!

@JimmyHoffa Mine is emptier than yours, true.

[cue "compensating for something" joke]

@RobertHarvey O yeah, his mom! Wait is that right? My algorithms will never get this humor thing right....

user55340

10:09 PM

(hmm... gotta write the "true facts about Yannis" M.P.SE post some day... things like "Yannis once merged Community with Goma")

@Joe If you think professional programmers can be measured by their online content you're missing the point; yes my github is just random garbage, I use it as an arbitrary scratch space when I want to scribble something down to fiddle with. Sorting programmers by github repository is probably a great way to find all the coffee shops with wifi in New York though..

user55340

366

Q: Jon Skeet Facts

I'm looking for Chuck Norris Facts style answers. In case anyone is curious, this question was inspired by Jon's own comment to this question. EDIT: If you're into cryptography, you may enjoy these facts. Now with official sanction from the powers that be!

discussion fun community jon-skeet

user55340

(note who locked that post...)

user41796

@MichaelT Yet another evil diamond mod.

user55340

Those mods hate fun.

user41796

10:12 PM

@MichaelT I think the fun() is extracted out of them and replaced with a diamond.

user55340

821

A: Jon Skeet Facts

These are written in the third person so as not to disrupt the style of the thing. But hey, as we all know, Jon Skeet can make 1 == 3 anyway, so it makes no difference. Jon Skeet is immutable. If something's going to change, it's going to have to be the rest of the universe. Jon Skeet's additio...

@GlenH7 The problem is they think they're the base class and we're all violating LSP by not throwing an exception in our fun() implementation

@JimmyHoffa I wasn't criticizing you because it's empty. I just found it interesting to see at least one person who knows how to code that doesn't actively maintain a GitHub profile (I know there's plenty, but haven't seen many yet)

Only Jon Skeet could post a Chuck Norris-style answer to a question about himself, without sliding into Malkovitch Malkovitch Malkovitch infinite recursion.

user41796

@Joe many of us here don't bother much with github accounts. Too busy writing code for work and the rest of our lives.

user41796

10:15 PM

@RobertHarvey I suspect immutability has something to do with that.

user55340

@Joe I know a lot who don't... depends on what your goals are for it. As an aside, my employer is a git/github shop (all code in git, on github, and issue tracking in github).

user55340

First question when I started was "what is your github account name" so that I could get added to it properly.

@MichaelT Gitlab might be something your boss might want to consider. Hosting code on your own.

user55340

@Joe But then we would need to host it here. The thing with github is its clouded and reduces our IT load (the second IT guy was hired the same time I was)

migrate-pls

0

Q: JS object to HTML data binding with Knockout JS

I have a JS object constructed from XML. How do I bind that JS object to html? Example: ViewModel: vm: { a: ko.observable() } JS (of the model): aObj : { item1: [ { n: 'a1', v: 'v1'}, { n:'a2', v:'v2' } ], item2: [ ] } JS (binding logic): vm.a(aObj); HTML: <div data-bind="...

user55340

10:17 PM

@RobertHarvey Out of close votes... :-(

>_<

@MichaelT It works on Heroku I believe. But if you're only paying 7 dollars (or thereabouts per month) it's probably more convenient that way.

user55340

There was a MSO post about "let a diamond mod steal questions from another site to their own"

user55340

@Joe We've got several private repos... and a few public ones too.

@RobertHarvey migrate-plz or too low quality?

0

Q: Cloumn ambigious in mysql?

hello i was running this query from last 6 months had no problem on several servers but today got error ? Coulmn account_id is ambigious ? $sql_query = "SELECT pricenotifier_criteria.criteria_id , pricenotifier_criteria.event_id , pricenotifier_criteria.ticket_id , pricenotifier_criteria....

10:20 PM

@JimmyHoffa The SO community can deal with it.

user55340

It also goes to the "don't need VPN for remote offices for code pulls"

Oh, wait. Different question.

@RobertHarvey Too late.

You said SO can deal with it so I put my migrate vote on it :P

I was going to close vote it; "This has error X <CODE BLOCK>" is kind of shit quality for anywhere

No worries. I'm a mod there, muahahaha.

@RobertHarvey That can't actually be enjoyable

10:22 PM

I'm a glorified janitor.

But once in awhile I get to set fire to one of the trash cans in the corner.

@RobertHarvey but you're a janitor for somewhere where people puke on the floor and walls more efficiently than you can clean

Exactly so.

user55340

2

A: How can I write a good custom close message?

Would be migrated to SO, but likely closed there This question is off topic on Programmers. It would best be asked on Stack Overflow, however, the question doesn't meet their minimum requirements. Please read the Stack Overflow question checklist and [edit] your question to make it suitable f...

user55340

Quick cut and paste close messages for consistent messaging to people about things.

> Start with a dash of sugar, little salt for luck, and then just douse it with sriracha because it should burn more than a little and always end it with a heaping tablespoon of hops because bitterness is the taste everyone should be left with when it's done.

10:24 PM

1. Find off-topic question
2. Paste canned message
3. Vote to close
4. ?
5. Profit!

user55340

(and people, if you've got other close reasons you often use... please, put 'em in there)

user55340

@RobertHarvey I've been tempted to get the old "Too Localized" along with the @JimmyHoffa "we don't care" suggestion.

@MichaelT O I was answering the title of the question...

user55340

Oh, @RobertHarvey something we discovered today that we're wondering about... is this a bug...

user55340

Hmm... can't find one easily...

10:29 PM

19 secs ago, by Jimmy Hoffa

11 secs ago, by Jimmy Hoffa

THIS IS A TEST OF THE EMERGENCY DELETION SYSTEM

user55340

1 min ago, by MichaelT

Message link for a deleted post.

@MichaelT I'm pretty sure it's not a bug because the same URL doesn't onebox when pasted by someone without room owner privs

user55340

Just curious.

What's wrong with me PHP code?

Here it is:

do {
echo "<p>The loop ran even though the loop condition is false.</p>";}
while ($loopCond){
echo "<p>Now the loop is done running.</p>";}

@Timtech It's in PHP

user55340

10:31 PM

@Timtech its php...

user55340

(ba dum dum...)

I know?

user55340

@Timtech It was an attempt at a joke - that what is wrong is that "it is php"

@Timtech "whats wrong" with it depends on what you were trying to do?

<?php
$loopCond = false;
do {
echo "<p>The loop ran even though the loop condition is false.</p>";}
while ($loopCond){
echo "<p>Now the loop is done running.</p>";}
?>

THE SYNTAX is wrong.

10:32 PM

@Timtech ok...

user55340

You're confused... and this is something it got from perl.

I can't figure it out :(

If I had to guess I'd say you've got a curly brace misplaced at the end of your while that should be at the beginning

user55340

9

A: Perl do...while and last command

A do block with a looping modifier doesn't count as a real loop as far as next, last, and redo are concerned. This is mentioned in perlsyn, where you'll find the tip Schwern mentioned about surrounding it with a bare block to make last work. But that won't work with next, because a bare block i...

ok

gtg

user55340

10:33 PM

The perl do while block always runs once.

Like I said... The speed of text messaging.

user55340

@RobertHarvey yep.

Able to leap tall buildings in a single line of code.

@Timtech very interesting website you've got there..

user55340

As much as I dislike about.com

user55340

10:34 PM

> Perl's do .. while loop is almost exactly the same as the while loop with one crucial difference - the code is executed before the expression is evaluated. It is used to loop through a designated block of code while a specific condition is evaluated as true.

user55340

perl.about.com/od/perltutorials/a/dowhileloop.htm

@MichaelT ...what's special about perl here? This is the distinct purpose of do/while vs. just while

user55340

> Perl starts by executing the code inside the do .. while block, then the expression inside the parenthesis is evaluated. If the expression evaluates as true the code is executed again, and will continue to execute in a loop until the expression evaluates as false.

wait, does Java not have do/while?

user55340

It has while do.

user55340

10:35 PM

(wait, it does have a do -while)

user55340

docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/while.html

user55340

> The difference between do-while and while is that do-while evaluates its expression at the bottom of the loop instead of the top. Therefore, the statements within the do block are always executed at least once, as shown in the following DoWhileDemo program:

@MichaelT C# has while and do/while, as C did before... perl may be the queen of regexp but he's no father of looping constructs :P

user55340

The thing is, people still expect the do-while and while to behave the same. They aren't.

user55340

Yep... my crufty old language skills need some refresher apparently.

10:36 PM

@MichaelT Yeah. The whole explicit purpose of do-while in all C-based languages is execute 1-N times as opposed to the while is execute 0-N times

user55340

The thing is, thats the confusing @Timtech had - that do { } while is a 1-N run always rather than a 0-N run.

@MichaelT have a look at his very interesting website...

Wow, he really can leap tall buildings in a single line of code.

user55340

(ug, ban evasion and client hacks for games)

user55340

@RobertHarvey something 'fun' to think about from M.P.SE

user55340

10:40 PM

Are you saying that 4chan /b/ is actually a good thing? Why would we want something like that here? Nothing good has come from it and nothing good could ever come of it — maple_shaft 4 hours ago

user55340

Ha!

user55340

That would be good, if your question was actually about developer testing. — Robert Harvey 57 secs ago

I need my own web site. "Robert Harvey Takes Over the World." ...and makes a great quiche.

user55340

Quiche... tangents through my mind... anyone else watch Night of the Doctor yet?

@RobertHarvey Really? How? I always wondered, I love a good quiche but I can't figure it out

@MichaelT Night of the doctor? That analysis thing? I don't even know how to get my hands on it...through reasonable means

user55340

10:43 PM

Just a joke. I have no idea, really. I'm suddenly hungry, though.

@RobertHarvey This was so stupidly simple, and awesome: cookingforengineers.com/recipe/45/…

Now whatever dinner you have that's not that, you'll be disappointed with tonight. You're welcome.

My wife and I are remarkably uncreative when it comes to dinner. I like variety, but she's notoriously hard to feed.

@RobertHarvey My wife poses both problems: She requires variety which makes her hard to feed. I'm more like a garbage can, just pour it in I don't care.

user55340

Dr Who. (The tangent was "Quiche - Souffles (yea, I know) - Clara (Dr. Who Companion) - Doctor Who - New mini episode is so neat!)

10:51 PM

@MichaelT Oh yeah souffles... that whole Clara thing was awesome. Reminded me of the Bleid Droog stuff in the first season

finding out code you fixed and spent time editing didn't save is the worst feeling ever.

user55340

@enderland But - you get to do it again... and better this time! c2.com/cgi/wiki?PlanToThrowOneAway

user55340

> Programming is like pinball. The reward for doing it well is the opportunity to do it again. --programmer's saying

user55340

neil.franklin.ch/Jokes_and_Fun/Wizardry_Compiled_Quotes.html

you are fired as motivational coach @MichaelT

user55340

10:59 PM

@enderland Thats good... because I'd rather be a programmer.

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