« first day (1080 days earlier)      last day (3857 days later) » 
01:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

1:00 AM
I don't think this is a duplicate
0
Q: Swap separation for multiple distributions

0xc0deI have 3 Linux distributions on my machine (Ubuntu, Arch and Fedora). I allocated half the RAM size (3GB) as swap for each of them. (I have realized that having 3 distributions is not of much use to me but I still have them.) The problem is now the 3 distributions mount all the 3 swap partitions ...

it's asking how NOT to share a swap partition. The other Q it's tagged as dupe of is asking if there are any side-effects of sharing swap. quite different questions.
 
slm
@CraigSanders - yeah the problem is that it was poorly written so it was difficult to understand, as the comments indicate as well. In re-reading it and your comment it now makes a lot more sense, also Michael's answer help shed more light on it too. It still seems kinda sorta like a duplicate to me but you can twist my arm and I'll vote to reopen it if you concur.
Seems like the negative of a solution is a duplicate especially when the positive includes details on how to do the negative?
@CraigSanders - let me know if you want to reopen!
@Gilles I found this page: subversion.apache.org/docs/community-guide/debugging.html. But it looks like you have to have this enabled via compilaiton (--enable-maintainer-mode). It enables a SVN_DBG env. var. Look through that page, further on they show debugging with a proxy and wireshark
 
1:35 AM
@slm, yeah i'd like to re-open. i made three quite long comments Michael's answer that i'd prefer to re-write as a supplemental answer to his, and add more detail/examples than is possible in a comment.
 
slm
@CraigSanders - yeah I saw your comments.
OK, did you vote to reopen?
 
just did that now. never done it before and didn't even notice the reopen link until you mentioned it.
 
slm
@terdon, @Braiam - if you guys get a sec can you help us out and vote to reopen this Q: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/91910/…
@CraigSanders need 3 more
Sorry about closing that, when I read it it completely sounded like the opposite, I've edited the Q to try and bring out the fact that it's the opposite
 
2:28 AM
@slm no vote to reopen privilege... still under <2k rep :(
 
slm
@Braiam - OK thanks
 
 
2 hours later…
slm
4:22 AM
 
slm
4:54 AM
@Anthon - you think these are the troll?
 
5:27 AM
@slm I did not have the troll feel for me. Did the troll accept answers (when answered and not closed). I have not paid attention to that last week.
 
slm
@Anthon - yes he would accept, but this person has commented and seems ok
@Anthon just watching for odd Q's those 2 seemed weird, and they were back to back which is what he would do
 
I will try to keep my eyes open.
 
slm
thank you!
 
 
10 hours later…
3:57 PM
@slm Whenever I read ntp questions, I wonder if I'm the only person to have ever read the ntpd docs. Quite probable, with how hard they are to find...
@slm BTW, were you going to write your Guide to NTP answer?
 
slm
@derobert - assuming you saw my Q: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/91792/…. Getting sick of seeing them on the site and they're all slightly differnt forms of the same one
@derobert - go for it, I kind of wanted to collaborate on that answer rather than attempt to make one myself, I know a decent amount about ntp, but there are better ways to do things that I'm not that confident on.
 
@slm Yeah. I'm more sick of them saying things which aren't true...
 
slm
@derobert - EXACTLY! Plus the don't know how to do X so this hack deals with it (ala. ntpdate etc.)
 
Yes, I don't think there is (for example & for at least the last 4+ years) a good reason to have both ntpd and ntpdate. Not since ntpd gained -g, at least.
 
slm
@derobert - yeah go for it with an answer, understand if you want to retain control of it, if there is any points missing I/others can create complimentary answers to the Q, or feed the info to you for reviewing prior to addition. I just don't want the Q to become one with 5+ answers, I'd like it to have 1-2 max.
but lay the foundation out in easy to follow steps to good NTP practices vs.bad, seems like a long time coming for that topic, no?
 
4:11 PM
if I start an answer on it, I'll mark it community wiki... It'd be best to have one answer, I think, covering everything
 
slm
your call
but i agree if you're ok with it
you can keep it yours to start if you want the rep and later convert it, at least for your troubles!
 
hah, true!
imagine how much rep I could have had from cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/21068/… :-P
 
slm
I was going to bounty it too, so if your answer is good I'll give you the pts
 
I wish I had some of the charts from my time server back when I had one. Actually, there is a chance I might have them...
 
slm
At least you get the Q rep, that 5*35. You get the work of the ups towards badges at least 8-)
 
4:14 PM
yeah, I've gotten badges from that question.
 
slm
I gave you some ups for it
I'll have to read it all the way later tonight
at work now
 
At work, too. If I work on that NTP question, it'll probably be tomorrow...
 
slm
ultimately I was hoping to create a canonical answer and then pull those other Q&A into it so we could start to limit there damage of mis-info going forward
yeah I'll let you have the glory with it 8-)
sounds like your more suted to the task than I
 
I figure an answer needs, at minimum, (1) quick discussion of timekeeping on PC hardware (2) quick explanation of what ntpd does, in theory; (3) config that works on sane/good hardware; (4) a bunch of ways to make it work on broken hardware
 
slm
that is one of those Q&A that I think you'll ultimately see in the top 1000 if it's done right, b/c so many ppl don't understand the domain
exactly, I wanted it to by like stephanes answer about which
but not so long 8-)
 
4:18 PM
Timekeeping is easy, until you want sub-µs... :-P
 
slm
ha
4
A: Why not use "which"? What to use then?

Chris DownOne thing which (from my quick skim) it seems that Stephane didn't mention is that which has no idea about your shell's path hash table. This has the effect that it might return a result which is not representative of what actually is run, which makes it ineffective in debugging.

this one still cracks me up
 
my previous timeserver only got down to about ±3µs, if I remember correctly.
 
slm
i've only ever used ntp locally where it would get the time and then act as the domains time server
but i've dealt with it a fair amount in VMs
 
@slm my time was coming from a GPS receiver w/ PPS output, and also some internet servers as a sanity check
 
slm
look at the original version of the Q, gilles and i had a bit of a discussion on the Q originally where he thought it too broad, so i focused it
yeah so you're the guy i was hoping would step up and tackle my Q
feel free to focus the Q differently if needed too
 
4:22 PM
hah, I think I've got my work cut out for me...
 
slm
Thanks for taking it on
 
Heh, I saw the Time Keeping proposal on Area 51. I wonder what whoever proposed that will think of my question suggestions!
 
slm
Wow that's a niche SE site
 
Yeah. I suspect it'll go nowhere.
 
slm
I was going to hold off on adding the bounty so that it won't evaporate if the task takes longer than 7 days
 
4:25 PM
Though it it actually attracted the time-nuts crowd, it'd work.
 
slm
no sense forcing ourselves to a delivery date
 
Yeah, you can decide to offer the bounty once you've seen the answer...
 
slm
Well that would help offset the loss if you did go community with it
so at least you'd get a "flat fee" for your work
if i answered it, there was no sense to add a bounty
given the value of the A to that Q i would go with a 500 too
 
@slm Well, not unless you wanted to start the StackExchange Ministry of Silly Acts
 
slm
if anything so i wouldn't have to see those Q's getting 1/2 A$$ answered anymore 8-)
too much?
if done right that A would be doing this site and the internet a service 8-)
 
4:29 PM
I guess I'll try and write something up Tuesday, or today if I find some time... Going to take some research, to make sure I get it right. And also to dig up links to all the various bits of ntp docs, to give for further info
 
slm
yeah so 500 seems fair for the effort to me
i typically can get 200 in a day so it's 2-1/2 days worth of work to me
if done right
 
Depending on how confusing I think my first draft is, I may post it here (as a Google doc, or something) first for feedback
 
slm
sure
better to dump the finished product there
 
yeah, or at least something that is useful, and not terribly confusing
 
slm
no one has attempted to answer it thus far which is what I expected, I tried to write the Q in a way to guard against trite answers
let me know how you make out
i can assist if you need anything
 
4:31 PM
I guess I'll put a comment on it that I'm planning on starting to work on it, and link to the chat.
 
slm
good idea
but like i said no one has even attempted an answer which is what i wanted, i want one true answer not 10 one liners
 
over at Seasoned Advice, we sometimes get a one-line extra answer to that storage lifetime question...
our mods take care of those.
doesn't happen that often, though
 
slm
yeah on Q's that have 4-5 A's already it's rare that there is anything extra to add, ppl just looking to try and get started with some rep is usually the case
it's only has 39 views so the Q is having the effect of not a lot of attempters at answering it
 
Yeah. I think most random Unix folks treat ntp as a black box.
You install it, and your clock is right. Howā€”umm?ā€”magic!
 
slm
yeah, enough to be dangerous and a bag of hacks/tricks from previous run ins that get the job done but inelegantly, I want the elegant solution
 
4:38 PM
Hah, of course, sometimes the elegant solution involves replacing hardware...
 
slm
i told gilles & terdon this was my way of forcing myself to answer it once in for all by asking the Q. I typically answer my own Q's to try and fill in missing domain knowledge on the site
but if a resident expert can do better I'm all for moving out of the way 8-)
ultimately i just wanted the resource to reference when we get the Q's later on about it so the info isn't so fractured and incorrect
good luck and let me know if you need anything!
 
Ok. I'll let you know once I actually start working on it. Feel free to send any ideas you think should be covered.
 
4:55 PM
outline, feel free to edit/comment
 
@derobert I'd suggest to add something like "VMs with saved states and shapshots" to the weird section. I remember that there was a question regarding that not long ago, and I also have that issue myself all the time
 
@MartinvonWittich well, add it :-P
I set that document to anyone can edit... you should be able to.
 
@derobert OK, I've added it
 
slm
@MartinvonWittich - if you roll the edits back on the Q you'll see we took out references to VM to try and focus the Q. The A can definitely include that info but were trying to keep the Q from becoming too broad.
 
Cool. It showed up on my screen. I've never been in a Google Doc with multiple people editing before... Works fairly nicely, it seems.
@slm I guess an answer in this question would probably be fairly generalā€”how to solve it if your hypervisor/guest OS combo gives no better way
hopefully with links to other questions about how to solve it on VMWare, KVM, etc.
Either that, or it'll get dropped again, as clearly one thing that'll need to happen with that outline is deciding what to omit...
 
slm
5:11 PM
yeah I would focus purely on the 4 areas you mentioned before. The VM can be added as it's own section, might have to be broken down by VM tech too.
 
Or the answer will quickly turn to TLDR.
 
slm
yeah that's what happened to stephane's which Q&A
it was too exhaustive
but still a tremendous resource
 
Well, the which Q&A does it rightā€”it starts of with 'use command -v'
 
slm
it didn't used to
stephane's answer originally started with the history of unix
 
hah, wow
 
slm
5:14 PM
then someone sugg. adding a TLDR section at the bottom, which got moved to the top, stephane lost control of the A and started another one
it was funny
the answer should give some background but focus more on the best practice way of doing it
@MartinvonWittich - this Q
4
A: Why not use "which"? What to use then?

Chris DownOne thing which (from my quick skim) it seems that Stephane didn't mention is that which has no idea about your shell's path hash table. This has the effect that it might return a result which is not representative of what actually is run, which makes it ineffective in debugging.

It's still one of my fav. Q&As more b/c of how much knowledge Stephane possess though, the A is so long and exhaustive that i can never fully internalize even 1/2 of it
 
@slm wow, yeah, I didn't notice the second answer...
 
@slm yeah, you're right, the first answer is exhaustive :D
 
and yet, I continue to use which :-P
though my normal use isn't any of those corner cases. It's gvim "$(which foo)"
it's less typing than command -v!
 
I'm using zsh, so when I need the path to some executable, I just the = operator
 
Anyway, lunch time. I'll get to see how many bullet points that I'd never even heard of until you all added to the ntp doc when I get back...
 
5:23 PM
martin@dogmeat ~ % ll =ls
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 108K Nov 19 2012 /bin/ls*
 
mm... how could I make that a script know where he is?
 
@MartinvonWittich zsh has an operator for that? Nice.... I really need to try zsh someday
 
@derobert zsh has amazing features. I really like its argument completion for example:
martin@dogmeat ~ % ls --
option
--all -- list entries starting with .
--almost-all -- list all except . and ..
--author -- print the author of each file
--block-size -- specify block size
[...]
it doesn't support all commands of course, but it's very helpful for that commands that it does support.
 
ok found it...
 
@MartinvonWittich bash does that too
though bash doesn't give short descriptions of what they do
 
5:26 PM
@derobert oh, didn't know that. I believe it didn't when I originally switched to zsh
 
anthony@Zia:~$ ls --a
--all         --almost-all  --author
 
It seems like bash has picked up a lot of zsh features, people are always saying bash can do stuff it definitely couldn't do when I switched
 
you have to enable bash-completion to get it, I assume zsh has something similar (e.g., some set of scripts to tell it about various commands, and their options)
 
Can bash do remote filename completion? I love that in zsh
 
@MichaelMrozek yes, it does that with e.g., scp
 
5:29 PM
@derobert about ntpd, I don't know if this noteworthy, but it had a bug some time ago that it stopped working when your internet connection is a PPP interface and this interface got a new IP address. If that is still the case, you could mention it under "when it doesn't work" - the fix is to add /etc/init.d/ntpd restart to /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/somefile
 
@MartinvonWittich no idea if ntpd breaks with dynamic IPs anymore... I haven't actually had a dynamic IP in years...
go ahead and add it
 
@derobert nevermind, I've found bug reports... seems like this was fixed in 4.2.2
http://bugs.ntp.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51
http://bugs.ntp.org/show_bug.cgi?id=622
Even Debian squeeze has 4.2.6, so it's probably not noteworthy anymore
 
Ok. I'm actually going to lunch now. BBL.
Feel free to keep editing that document. I'll check the revision history.
 
slm
Yeah bash added the complete facility which is customizable, you can add completions for anything
@MichaelMrozek - yeah I use the remote all the time, it can look inside your ssh .config file and complete on those too
@MichaelMrozek - i maintain a variable type of .config file so that i can go to servers over a proxy by adding a -o to their name (outside) vs. without (defaults to the normal name of the host)
@MichaelMrozek - example: ssh skinner-o vs. skinner. The first will go over a proxy like this: "ProxyCommand ssh sam@external.host.com nc echo %h|sed 's/-o//' %p"
it can do the remote files on the server too, so this is extremely powerful for reaching into another computers file system and hitting tab completions to see the files without having to ssh into the server and poke around first
 
boo! binary only upgrades on Debian :(
 
6:03 PM
@derobert bash does remote completion on scp? How? Is there a flag somewhere?
Ah, I see, works on my LAN, does not seem to on WAN
@slm I have a (passwordless) shh over a non-default port set up and bash won't complete the remote path, it tries and hangs for ever (which is why I thought it dd not work) works fine on local though. Strange
Damn, I can't believe I did not know this :) Great feture
 
@terdon have you put the necessary configuration into your .ssh/config? If you use the hostname that you have configured in the config, bash should be able to figure out the correct path from there
 
@MartinvonWittich well I'll be! It seems to work fine with a pretty complex tunneling setup that I have in the config file
 
Also a very nice thing for remote completion: if you want to use it with servers that expect a password, configure ssh controlmaster. You can then open a connection to the server in one window, and use remote completion in all other windows because ssh will then use the existing connection. It's also faster because it doesn't need to open new connections all the time.
 
What is the "necessary" configuration?
@MartinvonWittich Nice!
Does it depend on the remote system in any way?
 
@terdon something like this
Host myhost
Hostname my.remote.host.com
Port 2222
Then use "myhost" for ssh/scp
 
6:13 PM
Why would this not work? scp -P 24222 terdon@138.124.66.43:/cobeli
that's the beginning of a real path but I can't complete
So, the complete needs to know the default port then? It is not taking the settings from the command line?
 
@terdon because bash is parsing that line, and it probably fails to realize that it has to use port 24222. It probably just looks at the terdon@138.124.66.43:/cobeli part of the command line
 
OK, so bash will launch its own ssh connection to attempt the completion and it will only work if if finds everything it needs in the config file?
 
try to put this in `.ssh/config`:
Host test
Hostname 138.124.66.43
Port 24222
User terdon
 
Yeah, that's what I'm doing.
 
hmm, the last 3 lines were supposed to be indented :/
 
6:15 PM
No worries, I know the format more or less
 
and then use scp test:/cobeli
ok
Yes, bash definitely launches its own ssh connections
 
Hang on, it probably needs the host IP to be defined in /etc/hosts as well right?
 
@terdon no, I don't think so
just try ssh test to see if the host definition itself works
 
No, scratch thatI'm being silly, I was using the hostname instead of IP
Hah!
It works :) Thanks, that will make my life easier :)
So, this will only work for passwordless set ups since bash opens its own ssh. Good to know
 
@terdon if you set up ssh controlmaster, it will work also for servers that require a password
Host *
  ControlPath ~/.ssh/master-%r@%h:%p
  ControlMaster auto
 
6:18 PM
As long as I've opened one connection to them somewhere is that it?
 
Cool
 
ControlMaster means that all connections to a specific server are routed through a single ssh session
the first ssh will ask for the password, and all the others that you launch afterwards will not
 
Is that a Good Idea? I;m not sure I can see what effect it will have
 
I've been using it for ages, and I love it
the only thing you have to consider is that you can't close the first connection if other ones are still open
 
6:20 PM
OK but no performance effects? If everything is going through the same connection I mean.
 
if you're working in multiple windows with interactive sessions, and you try to close the first one (CTRL+D or exit), the ssh session will hang and remain open. If you then kill it with CTRL+C, all other sessions will close too.
 
Ouch, that can be annoying, OK.
 
Not that I would know of. At least remote completion to passwordless servers will be noticeably faster if you already have a session to that server, because the new ssh sessions will spawn instantly
with open session:
martin@dogmeat ~ % time ssh dev2 true
0:00.02 ssh dev2 true
without:
martin@dogmeat ~ % ssh dev2 true
0:00.21 ssh dev2 true
that's 20ms vs 210ms if I read that correctly
The solution is not to use multiple windows. screen ftw :)
 
Heh, cool :)
 
slm
@terdon, yes controlmaster is your friend, just remember that if you have like 3 connections they're sharing one pipe, so if you take the original one down (i.e. exit it) the others go with it!
 
6:24 PM
is a happy geek with a new toy
 
slm
My top of the .config file:
ServerAliveInterval 15
ForwardX11 yes
ForwardAgent yes
ForwardX11Trusted yes

GatewayPorts yes

Host *
ControlMaster auto
ControlPath ~/.ssh/master-%r@%h:%p
IdentityFile ~/.ssh/id_dsa
this forces multiple master files so things are somewhat protected
 
ForwardX11Trusted yes activates -Y for all connections?
 
slm
in the event of exiting something
yeah
 
"this forces multiple master files so things are somewhat protected in the event of exiting" ??
 
slm
master-%r@%h:%p get's expanded like this: master-sam@imap-o:22
%r = user, %h = host i typed (Host ...) and %p = port
limits the pipe to one per host per user per port
you can script a bit in there too:
ProxyCommand ssh sam@my.external.com nc `echo %h|sed 's/-o//'` %p
those are bash backticks
 
6:28 PM
Ah, otherwise you might have multiple master connections and killing any of them will also kill various other connection instances?
 
slm
yeah
you don't want one master for everything
The imap-o is a tunnel back to my imap server at home from work
 
Ah, hang on, so your trick causes multiple masters?
 
slm
i use autossh to manage it
yeah
i have one for smtp too
that way i don't have to expose imap or smtp directly on the internet
only port 22
you can do this with virt-manager and vnc too
 
So how is a given connection attached to a master? If you have multiple masters for connecting to the same server.
 
slm
vnc-viewer has the -gateway switch
the first one makes the file if it doesn't exist, subsequent ones that match the user@host:port use the same if it exists
rare occasions you might have to remove the master files
the master is the first connection
subsequent conns. are subordinates to it
hence why the master connection get's closed, they all go
 
6:32 PM
Ah, OK, multiple master files means one for each host.
 
slm
yeah
sorry the terminology get's confusing, master file
 
So, without the ' ControlPath ~/.ssh/master-%r@%h:%p ' would that be a single master file for all hosts?
 
slm
yeah
AFAIK
that's why i did it that way, would get my conns. ripped down when i restarted my autossh
 
Really?Huh, so closing the very first connection I open in the morning would kill all the others irrespective of server?
 
slm
should
 
6:33 PM
ouch
 
slm
so i segrated them.
 
Huh well thank you both that's very useful :)
 
slm
yeah that's a extremely useful productivity trick if you ssh to a lot of machines
i used to work at kodak and would use that to reach into the data centers since they were islands that could only be accessed from specific host IPs for security reasons
 
island hopping but not in a good way huh?
 
slm
basically
the named hosts in ssh .config is another powerful tool too
the names don't have to be real machines
 
6:36 PM
Yeah, that one I use
 
slm
i had a script that would collect all the host/keys and would essentially construt a custom config file as needed
they get a bit ugly to manage
 
@slm what's even nicer: they can be real host names and then they will override the hostname. For example, if you have a server example.com that listens on port 2222 instead of 22, you can just put this in your config:
Host example.com
Port 2222
and ssh will handle the different port transparently.
 
Yeah, that's the kind of setup I have, also proxycommand is great!
 
slm
yeah that's another trick we've used too, I totally forgot, the ports since in the DS everything was on non-standard ports
 
ProxyCommand ssh -p 24222 terdon@138.124.66.43 'exec 3<>/dev/tcp/10.1.3.30/22; cat <&3 & cat >&3;kill $!'
 
6:39 PM
We have about 800 customer servers, and some of them have been configured for different ports and such. We have a field for that in our CRM where we enter the deviating hostnames/port and stuff, and then a .ssh/config is autogenerated from this configuration. That way we don't have to memorize it all, we just ssh to the domain and the config will take care of the rest.
 
slm
show off
we had a tool for mananging the known_hosts file too
 
:) Would be if I could claim to understand everything that does :) Managed to set it up and it works to tunnel to my VM through another host is all I know
 
slm
can't find it now
@MartinvonWittich - that sounds pretty slick
 
ok, gotta go. bye!
 
slm
bye
@terdon - if your bored, the scripts are written in perl and are used for managing your known_hosts file, github.com/thrig/sial.org-scripts/tree/master/ssh
they can do things like expand the host entries so that they include the hostnames FQDN, shortname, and IP among other things
 
7:06 PM
Cool, thanks. Don't really need much though, all I do is connect to my lab which has to be done through a gateway and then connect o one of 4 servers that I have to play with.
1
Q: How to change file owner in AIX?

jraraHow can I change a owner of a file in AIX? I created a file using my personal account and then I tried to change user for this file: chown rootuser myfile.csv chown: myfile.csv: Operation not permitted. Then I changed to root user sudo /usr/bin/su - rootuser and tried to change the owner o...

Is there ever any rational reason to run 'sudo /usr/bin/su - rootuser'?
@slm ?
 
is there really a rootuser?
 
 
1 hour later…
slm
8:35 PM
 
0
A: How can I check for bad blocks on an LVM physical volume?

Martin von Wittich When you're using ext4, you can check for badblocks with the command e2fsck -c /dev/sda1 or whatever. This will "blacklist" the blocks by adding them to the bad block inode. Sorry, but that's complete nonsense. e2fsck won't check for bad blocks on the physical hard disk and it also won't "bl...

That's like the tenth time I've explained how to use smartctl to run a selftest, and I'm only active for like two weeks
One of these days, I'm gonna write a detailed howto and just link to that...
@terdon no, "sudo su" is completely pointless. These people all need to learn about sudo -i or sudo -s ._.
 
@MartinvonWittich oh, you are here...
-c This option causes e2fsck to use badblocks(8) program to do a
read-only scan of the device in order to find any bad blocks.
If any bad blocks are found, they are added to the bad block
inode to prevent them from being allocated to a file or direcā€
tory. If this option is specified twice, then the bad block
scan will be done using a non-destructive read-write test.
... RTFM :-P
@MartinvonWittich as you can see from answer, I agree with you that the hard disk really ought to map out the sector itself
I'm pretty sure that we do have a question on how to actually get a SATA (etc.) drive to remap a sector
 
@derobert didn't really notice the -c, I just read "e2fsck" :/
 
@MartinvonWittich BTW: At least you haven't had to write a bunch of answers yelling at people to please stop trying to destroy their data with mdadm :-P
8
Q: Linux - Repairing bad blocks on a RAID1 array with GPT

RyanThe tl;dr: how would I go about fixing a bad block on 1 disk in a RAID1 array? But please read this whole thing for what I've tried already and possible errors in my methods. I've tried to be as detailed as possible, and I'm really hoping for some feedback This is my situation: I have two 2TB d...

e.g., that one.
 
slm
@MartinvonWittich, @derobert - yeah LVM is another topic in need of a canonical answer
@MartinvonWittich, @derobert - or at least a couple well written Q&A's
@MartinvonWittich, @derobert - yeah LVM is another topic in need of a canonical answer
 
8:49 PM
@slm hah, three copies?
I've been tempted to do a "how do I recover my RAID array?" post, too
 
slm
need to restart
I'm getting some weird timeout in chrome
 
not just you slm... internet is quite acting up today.. :(
 
Haven't noticed anything here.
BTW, @MartinvonWittich, @Braiam if you want to comment on my outline for the ntp answer, it's here docs.google.com/document/d/…
 
slm
Yeah it comes and goes
 
Feel free to edit
 
8:53 PM
@derobert I don't understand what he's trying to accomplish. Why just not drop that defective disk from the array?
 
slm
@MartinvonWittich - lots of ppl don't realize they can drop disks like that and operate degraded
 
@MartinvonWittich bad block != defective disk. Bad blocks expected on large SATA disks, for example.
 
@derobert maybe just not your part of the net :(
 
slm
we see a lot of questions where ppl are working them into these XY Problems as a result
 
@derobert well, when I see "read failure" after a selftest, than that's it for me. A hard disk is not expensive compared to downtime or even data loss.
Also isn't a hard disk supposed to use reserve blocks as long as it can, and only report a failure when there are no more reserve blocks left?
 
8:55 PM
@MartinvonWittich On a lot of disks I've dealt with, that read failure just means 'there is a pending sector'
 
I'm pretty sure I've seen a disk that hat several reallocated sectors, but it still passed its selftest
 
@MartinvonWittich Yes. But if a block goes bad, and a few retries don't manage to read it, the disk can't remap it until it gets a write to the sector
@MartinvonWittich Reallocated will pass. Pending will not.
pending = "noticed sector was bad during an offline scan or attempted access, retries failed to read it. Can't reallocate until its written to"
 
@derobert So would the RAID check write to that sector and change the pending to a reallocated block?
 
the disk can't reallocate it until its written to, because it has no idea what data to put in the new sector
 
@derobert yes, that I understood now
 
8:57 PM
@MartinvonWittich yes, depends on the disk. Sometimes the disk will reallocate. Other times the disk will attempt a write to the block, read it back, and say "hmm, OK now, let's keep using this sector"
 
@derobert but md would write to that sector, using the other hard disk as a source, wouldn't it?
 
@MartinvonWittich Yes, for quite a while now, when md hits a bad sector, it attempts to write back the contents, which it gets from another mirror
(or from parity, in the case of RAID 4/5/6)
 
@derobert so let's assume that md writes to that pending sector, and the hard disk will now remap it. Would the disk now pass the selftest again?
 
yes
 
01:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

« first day (1080 days earlier)      last day (3857 days later) »