English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

1:06 AM

Hello. I've always thought that modal verbs cover ability, advice, permission and obligation. Someone suggested that they show intention. Is that true or is intention covered by obligation?

Thanks

tchrist

@Jdoh Will you tell me?

J doh

?

you mean a request?

Mitch

-2

Q: The End of days

I asked a question previously about maximum points per day and was told that I could get a maximum of 200 points excluding accepts and bounties. I wanna know when does that 24 hour period star and when does that day end? Did it start after my 200 point limit was reached?

I really wanted that to be about US Republican presumptive nominee

J doh

:)

user174558

@Mitch What's with the nudity there?

user174558

1:19 AM

@Cerberus You have not talked for days. Are you alright? Are you in distress?

user174558

@snailplane Because the British care more about British than American English. ODE also stands for ordinary differential equations.

user174558

Not many people know that there is ODE and NOAD, COED and COAD, and OALD and OAAD.

user174558

I find it quite silly to have 2 dictionaries for essentially the same language. One can easily combine British and American variants into 1.

user174558

Perhaps this is a marketing strategy by OUP.

user174558

@Mitch Sounds like Armageddon.

user174558

1:28 AM

@Jdoh He often says naughty things.

user174558

@anongoodnurse And sometimes, I delete upvoted answers that I don't really like for some reason or other as well. And hi again!

Anonymous

1:56 AM

@WillHunting You can. The OED works for both British and American English, for example. There are a few reasons to do them separately, though, I suppose.

Anonymous

The OED has no real limits on entry length, but most dictionaries are actually single-volume dictionaries that are published physically.

sumelic

@snailplane: Hi! I see you've upgraded your mode of transportation

Anonymous

So it's not surprising that a dictionary for native speakers of American English, like the NOAD, would include only American English pronunciation (and with the respelling scheme people educated in the U.S. are used to), for example, instead of including AmE and BrE pronunciation everywhere.

Anonymous

@sumelic Yes! :-)

Anonymous

I'm somewhat faster now.

Anonymous

1:59 AM

Dictionaries for native speakers of British English are more likely to use IPA these days.

Anonymous

(Dictionaries for learners of all varieties have used IPA for quite a while.)

sumelic

@snailplane It doesn't seem like all dictionaries published by Oxford use Clive Upton's system. For example, oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/…

The transcription of "nurse" is /nɜːs/ not /nəːs/

Anonymous

@sumelic Sorry, their dictionaries written for native speakers.

Anonymous

That's what I should have said.

sumelic

@snailplane: Oh, that makes sense. I don't have any physical dictionaries at the moment, so I just use online ones.

tchrist

2:45 AM

@WillHunting Not that time.

Færd

Why does this sound funny to me? :

> I can't seem to find my keys.

Anonymous

@Jdoh Will and would have volitional uses.

Anonymous

@Færd = It seems that I can't find my keys.

Anonymous

You must think seem is positioned oddly.

Færd

Is it?

Anonymous

2:51 AM

No, it's fine.

Anonymous

But it's interesting.

Anonymous

Well, that's my only guess, so if that's not why you think it sounds funny, I have no idea. :-)

Færd

Okay. What about this? : I can't appear not to be surprised about this.

Anonymous

I'm sorry, my brain turned off halfway through that sentence.

Anonymous

I guess in context it could work, now that I re-read it.

Færd

2:53 AM

Give your brain some rest then!

Anonymous

Someone is very worried about someone perceiving them the wrong way!

Anonymous

Perhaps someone has broken a law, and they're afraid that if they don't look surprised when someone tells them what happened, they'll be found out.

Anonymous

I guess in that sort of context that sentence would be fine.

Færd

Okay, thanks!

Anonymous

It's always hard reading sentences without context.

Anonymous

2:55 AM

We have to invent some sort of mental context to really understand them.

Færd

Mhm. The fact that the context is inventable is good enough for me.

Anonymous

4:02 AM

@Færd But although your appear and seem sentences are superficially similar, I don't think they have the same grammar.

Anonymous

Nor do I think they have similar interpretations.

Anonymous

> 1a. I can't seem to find my keys.
> 1b. It seems that I can't find my keys.
> 2a. I can't appear not to be surprised about this.
> 2b. #It appears that I can't not be surprised about this.

Anonymous

Examples 1a and 1b have similar meaning, but examples 2a and 2b don't have the same kind of relationship.

Anonymous

The # symbol here means there's something wrong with the meaning of the sentence.

Anonymous

When you say "I can't seem to find my keys", you're telling someone that you've been trying to find your keys, but you haven't been able to do so yet.

Anonymous

4:13 AM

You could post a good question about seem and appear, if you were so inclined :-)

stack

10:37 AM

This caution is understandable, particularly ......... five years.
a) inflation raising over the country in the last
b) inflation rise in the country in the past
c) with inflation in the country rising over the past
d) with inflation raise over the country in the last

crl

11:44 AM

(c+d)/2

Mitch

11:57 AM

@crl +(c-d)/2

@WillHunting exactly

Mitch

12:09 PM

@WillHunting I searched and searched and could not find any nudity there.

MετάEd

1:05 PM

@Mitch Sorry to hear it!

MετάEd

1:18 PM

@KitZ.Fox When my daughter was a little girl, somebody asked her if she believed in God. She said she believed in Jesus, and also the days of the week. (Her favorite was Frigge -- because goddess.)

Færd

@snailplane Thanks for the explanation.

@snailplane The context for my second sentence was that I was surprised about can't seem being perfectly normal, so I couldn't appear not to be surprised about it. ;)

Mitch

@MετάEd I know!

MετάEd

@Mitch It's the OP's profile picture.

Mitch

@MετάEd days of the week, opiate of the masses

Færd

@snailplane Yes. I don't regard it as normal use of double negative, but it is understandable I guess. It's been discussed on the main site: 1, 2

Mitch

1:25 PM

@MετάEd disappointing

MετάEd

@Mitch Woden dammit. I was just going to say that.

Frig. Frig, frig, frig.

tchrist

No, no, no: frig, frag, frug, fruggen.

Mitch

:D

Great minds think alike

Fools seldom differ

Færd

@Mitch Heh. Some way to answer an exam question.

Mitch

@Færd interesting test

Færd

1:30 PM

@tchrist Present tense, past tense, past participle, and?

tchrist

Adjectival form: drink, drank, drunk, drunken.

Færd

Right.

Mitch

Dum ditty dum dinty fruggen sailor

tchrist

Did he or dint he?

Mitch

Edited

That sailor, not sure what he's done

tchrist

1:34 PM

ask the chicken

Mitch

Oh. Big science news. The egg came first

Well that's old news. But new to me.

Just had an omelette

Kit Z. Fox

@MετάEd that's my favorite too!

Færd

So, frug sailor or fruggen sailor?

I'm not very acquainted with this adjectival form.

Kit Z. Fox

I have funny conversations with my boys about Hera. It's useful for describing sexist stereotypes.

tchrist

@Færd It's usually the same as the past participle, but not always.

Færd

1:39 PM

I see.

tchrist

@Færd What's the opposite of home-made?

Mitch

Like how she might have good reason to be a little naggy of Zeus?

Færd

@tchrist delivered? :)

Mitch

@tchrist ooh I know!

Oh. Maybe not

tchrist

In dialect, it’s store-boughten. That’s no longer standard English, but it persists.

Færd

1:40 PM

Let me think.

Mitch

Store-bought?

Kit Z. Fox

reads Then Hera, in a jealous rage-- puts book down now boys, if your spouse were messing around behind your back, how would you feel? Yeah. So more like-- picks up book again Then Hera, in a perfectly justifiable rage...

Færd

@tchrist Oh, I wouldn't have guessed.

Mitch

Einladen gekauft?

tchrist

@Færd Because you don't have a lifetime of native dialect to draw on to pull that one up from out of. :)

Mitch

1:41 PM

@KitZ.Fox exactly.

tchrist

The OED calls these forms participial adjectives.

Mitch

But in defense of the myth, it's a bunch of Ancient Greek men telling the story. In their aspirational manner

tchrist

There are over three hundred of them that end in -en, but most are the same as the verb.

Mitch

But a swan? And a boy? Keep your pants on man!

Færd

@tchrist So they have been replaced with past participles in the course of time?

tchrist

1:43 PM

Something like that.

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch also, we've talked about how siblings don't usually marry each other, and that if a person disrespects you like that, you should just end the relationship.

Of course, if you are going to marry your sibling for the purposes of ruling over the universe, you don't have to consummate the relationship.

In which case, your sibling ought to be understanding of your desire to have an open marriage.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox argh I've already played the 'in defense of' card. I wouldn't say be entirely intolerant of stupidity, good behavior can be worked on instead of immediately cut off (disrespect has a wide range)

@KitZ.Fox more defense of attempt:

Oops I'm out

Ranojoy Dutta

eny meeny miny moe

Kit Z. Fox

Communication issues can be corrected, but it is next to impossible to gain or regain respect in an intimate relationship.

And Zeus is just a pathetic man child who respects no one.

Suddenly, I notice that I'm projecting.

tchrist

:)

Kit Z. Fox

1:54 PM

Some friends of mine just separated.

She's at my house a lot, defending him. I don't understand why.

terdon

2:21 PM

@KitZ.Fox Hera?

tchrist

I find myself confusing what happens to Hera in Olympos with what happens to Echidna in Book of the Long Sun.

Weapon X

2:55 PM

Hello to everyone i have this doubt does these sentence is correct

"His heart is impoverishing by annual disappointments"

Færd

@WeaponX You mean you have a question, right?

@WeaponX This would make more sense to me: His heart is being impoverished by annual disappointments.

But you have to give the context to get a good answer.

Weapon X

@Færd right. Did i use impovershing correct? because at the website(of this chatroom) someone told me that the verb is transitive

Færd

@WeaponX It is transitive, so: Annual disappointments are impoverishing his heart, or His heart is being impoverished by annual disappointments.

Nonetheless, I can't answer for sure without more context.

Weapon X

3:23 PM

It is just a sentence i come up with, thanks.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox she's invested in the relationship. You're not in the relationship so all you see is the (good) reasons to leave.

Also guys are jerks

crl

@Færd I'm a frugal skipper if you need

haven't been on the sea for years though

How could I name a variable for a <div contenteditable> element? ce, ed ?

must not exceed 4 letters, for my stupid brain, nvm, let's go with editable