English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:01 AM

@medica That’s very hard. In Spanish, of course it would have to be "I would do whatever were needed", and that’s how they used to speak in English, too — back when English writers used fancier sorts of moods. Today, I quite doubt you could find any monoglot who were willing to use such a construction naturally. All the English examples of that sort of thing are older than either of us, and possibly than both of us combine.

If you pored through Visser, you could find examples.

user116848

12:23 AM

Oh, only a handful of users here!

user116848

Hi all

user116848

I never see this few users here usually.

user116848

7 in total. Including me.

user116848

I'll be gone too once I have shut down my computer.

tchrist

12:59 AM

@medica Oh, now I understand your question. I think I’ve given you the wrong answer. Or rather, a right answer to a different question than you were asking.

medica

@tchrist I think I understand that, as is often the case, I need to let go of the idea that there's a right answer for this problem. I tend to want 'rules' when I don't understand something, and the subjunctive is something I'm shaky on in its finer aspects. So your answer was actually very helpful. Thank you!

Cerberus

1:27 AM

Hello.

@medica The thing is, this is a rule, but I'm not sure why we have it.

The rule is that you use a simple past form in a clause that is subordinate to an hypothetical if clause, and you also use the simple past in other clauses that are subordinate to the hypothetical main clause that comes with an hypothetical if clause.

The "reason" behind it is that such subordinate clauses are still referring to the hypothetical, counter-factual situation of the "if I were rich, I would do this" sentence, so they need to be removed from the present, which is reserved for facts.

However, I would expect us to use a past subjunctive there, just as in the if clause: why we use a simple past instead, I do not know. It is I would be too scared to talk to a man who was following me in the dark near the park, not ~~were~~.

Jasper Loy

1:44 AM

Hi, I did not sleep for 20 hours yesterday, then I slept for 4 hours.

medica

2:03 AM

@Cerberus Hmm, that is a good explanation. Thanks! This is really helpful to me.

Cerberus

@medica Good!

@JasperLoy My sleep cycle is equally fucked up.

Jasper Loy

@Cerberus I was comparing the pre-university and university math syllabuses of the UK and my place. It is pathetic how things are so much dumbed down here. Sigh, the more I know about this place, the more I think it sucks.

Jerson Zuleta

Hello.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Where in the UK are you comparing with?

Jasper Loy

@Mitch I was just talking to a bright UK kid taking the A Level Exams in Math (pre-university). They study about twice as much math as someone taking the dumbed down A Level Math here.

Mitch

2:18 AM

extra subjects or same subjects just further?

Jasper Loy

@Mitch Both. A level can mean so many different things. It is a very generic term. And for the universities, we don't even need to compare, lol. Those here suck even more. You may think otherwise, but that's because you've been hearing all the nonsense in the news etc.

Mitch

Don't compare with the US. It varies widely from high school to highschool... oh, you could compare the AP tests I guess.

@JasperLoy Which nonsense? THere's a lot of it!!

Jasper Loy

@Mitch How kids here are good at math, how we have a world class education system, how the universities here are world class, etc. Makes my toes laugh.

Jerson Zuleta

@JasperLoy Not to be nosy, where do you live?

Jasper Loy

@JersonZuleta I am sorry, but I would like to keep that a secret for various reasons.

Mitch

2:21 AM

Oh. Yeah. There's the myth in the west that Asia kids are all good at math/science.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy But I thought Singapore had good education?

Jerson Zuleta

@JasperLoy It's alright. It's just something I'd say as well about where I live.

Mitch

By SIngapore, Cerb means some other place in Asia.

Jerson Zuleta

Third-world country, y'know.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes, very other, otherest.

Mitch

2:22 AM

It's not your fault where you parents were born.

Jasper Loy

@JersonZuleta I am sorry to hear that. I live in a first world country though.

Tmr is 1 Nov. I shall start running then, as promised.

Jerson Zuleta

@JasperLoy But yeah, it all depends on who you are comparing yourself with. Or what university you're comparing. I've had the opportunity to compare myself with some people from different highschools and whilst in some I'm ahead, with others I'm way far behind.

Jasper Loy

@JersonZuleta Yes, life is indeed very different in different countries, or even different parts of the same country, in all aspects.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Start slow! Build up slowly.

Jerson Zuleta

@JasperLoy Specially how the whole educational system works, though. Whilst they take Geometry, Algebra, and so on separately. We take it all at once—— I mean, it's still math so....

Jasper Loy

2:27 AM

@Mitch Do you mind sharing your email with me?

Mitch

I suppose. But how do you do that? (concerns about indexing by google and spam)

Jasper Loy

@Mitch OK, next question. Will you tell me your real first name and last name in email if we share email, or is that too much?

user116848

@JasperLoy But you are way better off than in countries like Pakistan.

user116848

But I never complain :-)

Jasper Loy

@Arrowfar Is Pakistan a Muslim country?

user116848

2:33 AM

Yes, it is.

Jerson Zuleta

@Arrowfar Better off than a woman in countries like Pakistan, I'd say.

user116848

@JersonZuleta Yeah

Mitch

@JasperLoy How about just my first name?

user116848

@JersonZuleta I am from Pakistan though

Jerson Zuleta

@Arrowfar It must have some good things, though. Not everything can be /that/ bad.

Jasper Loy

2:35 AM

@Mitch Hmm, then never mind. It's because of my OCD. I want all my email addresses to be complete with first and last names. But if you change your mind one day, you can email me at jasperloy at outlook dot com. I currently have the emails of about 25 SE folks.

user116848

@JersonZuleta Yep. Not all bad.

Cerberus

@Mitch Let me guess. Apfelstrudel!

Mitch

@JasperLoy You would appreciate Knuth then. He was meticulous about references and insisted on having the correct middle initial even though many people don't give them on their papers.

@Cerberus ha ha. close. well, not really. considers changing name to that just to make that work

reconsiders

Jasper Loy

@Arrowfar Are you happy living in your country?

user116848

@JasperLoy Um...I am okay with it. But I don't go outside home much. It is not considered very safe.

user116848

2:47 AM

Safe in the sense that a person can get mugged very easily here.

user116848

Like in other third world countries.

Jerson Zuleta

@Arrowfar But there must be safe places. I mean, where I live is considered unsafe to go around alone after 10 pm or so. Other than that, it's okay.

Jasper Loy

Where I live, it is very safe. A girl can go out alone at 2 am and not get raped.

user116848

@JersonZuleta Yeah, definitely. Where I live is generally considered very safe but we never know.

user116848

I mean I have been mugged twice or thrice

user116848

2:51 AM

Good thing I didn't have nothing much with me.

Jerson Zuleta

@Arrowfar That's true. Two years ago I was almost robbed in front of my residential compound. My fight or flight response helped a lot and I got away safely.

user116848

Yeah, exactly.

user116848

My only response is 'flight'

Jerson Zuleta

I surprised myself back then. I didn't know why I fought specially since I'm sort of a scrawny boy.

user116848

Although I am a guy I never think about the other option.

Jerson Zuleta

2:54 AM

I don't think in those situations, I simply act, I guess.

user116848

Yeah, in 'act' sense. Exactly!

Cerberus

@Mitch I love it when people make reality fit lies.

They always tell people here to give their money to the robber instead of fighting.

Jerson Zuleta

My parents say the same. And it's probably for the best.

user116848

Same here.

Cerberus

If you lose an eye, or your life, that cannot be repaired. If you lose the contents of your wallet, or your phone, that can easily be repaired. If you are exceedingly poor, it may take several months. If it should take longer than that, then perhaps you shouldn't bring such expensive objects with you!

Jasper Loy

2:58 AM

@jerson Where are you from, if not secret?

Jerson Zuleta

Then again, look at what happened to Mr. & Ms. Wayne.

Cerberus

Who?

Jasper Loy

@Cerberus It is hard to regain your mind after you have lost it.

Jerson Zuleta

Nevermind. It was a reference.

Cerberus

By the way, a trick that helps:

Jerson Zuleta

2:59 AM

@JasperLoy Colombia, South America.

Cerberus

Carry an extra wallet and an extra phone with you.

Take some old wallet, put some useless cards in it and €10 in cash, and a few coins.

Jasper Loy

@JersonZuleta Aha! I might prefer living there instead of my place, hehe.

user116848

@Cerberus I have heard of that too :-) Is that effective?

Cerberus

Buy an old phone off Ebay for €20.

Jerson Zuleta

I always get a bit of PTSD after I get robbed, though.

Cerberus

3:00 AM

@Arrowfar I have never been robbed, but people say it can be effective.

@JersonZuleta Understandably!

user116848

@JersonZuleta Yeah, I have been traumatised too several times.

Jerson Zuleta

I was told to carry a cup of Starbucks (not transparent though) & put your stuff in there, so when you get robbed, you can just tell them you didn't bring anything with you.

Jasper Loy

@JersonZuleta How often have you been robbed?

Jerson Zuleta

@JasperLoy I don't really think so. Trust me, not just the place, the people too...

Like thrice.

Not technically since one I got away with my phone safely.

I managed to outsmart the thief.

user116848

Yeah, it is sad stuff.

user116848

3:03 AM

I never talk about it though.

user116848

But today we happened to here.

Jerson Zuleta

It can be very traumatising. I prefer when you get robbed without realising. Like in public transport.

user116848

It feels very peaceful sitting at home and chatting though :D

Jerson Zuleta

At least when you do realise, you're safe and all you can do is just be mad that something was stolen from you.

user116848

yeah

Cerberus

3:08 AM

@JersonZuleta Sure.

But I have never been pickpocketed!

Even though there are many pickpockets here, and I often take the tram or the underground.

Jerson Zuleta

Maybe my wallet isn't big enough, lol.

Cerberus

My bike has been stolen countless times, though.

Haha.

Jerson Zuleta

They stole the tires of my bike...

It was sad.

user116848

You mean only tires?

Jerson Zuleta

Yes.

Cerberus

3:11 AM

Huh.

They steal your front wheel sometimes here, but never your tires!

user116848

I see. It sounds funny though :-)

user116848

Sorry.

Jerson Zuleta

I don't know why would they do that but whatever...

user116848

@Cerberus I didn't know there were any pickpockets in Netherlands.

user116848

I thought it was all goody goody

Cerberus

3:13 AM

Not at all!

user116848

I see

Cerberus

Only in crowded places, though, like city centres.

And I think more bikes are stolen here than anywhere else in the world!

Have you had your bike stolen in P.?

user116848

Me? No

user116848

I used to have it as a kid.

prosody context

3:55 AM

I've had bike wheels stolen, that just bites. Never forget to lock.

Ice Boy

I've had a tire stolen off my car!

Cerberus

That sucks!

@prosodycontext I always lock my bike. Often with more than one lock...

It isn't enough.

Ice Boy

4:11 AM

you need a bike alarm

prosody context

Haha. :P Expert bike thefts.

Cerberus

And have the alarm stolen? No thanks!

You have no idea what Amsterdam is like...

Jerson Zuleta

Now that's hilarious.

To have your alarm stolen.

It's like when a cop is robbed.

Ice Boy

I have seen some people lock-up the frame of the bike and remove the front tire and carry it with them.

Jerson Zuleta

^

Cerberus

4:14 AM

@IceBoy Haha, that may help...

Jerson Zuleta

Sounds too much of a work when you're late.

Exactly.

Professional thefts?

better than no bike

@IceBoy But maybe not better than the risk of no bike.

Jerson Zuleta

4:15 AM

Or the risk of getting fired because you're always late.

Cerberus

2

Ice Boy

:O

doesn't anybody walk?

where is that?

Jerson Zuleta

I like that picture.

If we replaced all those people for cars, we wouldn't even have a fourth in the same picture.

Cerberus

@IceBoy Some random place in the city. It is like that in many places.

@JersonZuleta Far fewer! A car takes up as much space as...10 parked bikes?

Ice Boy

Wow! you are right,

12 mins ago, by Cerberus

You have no idea what Amsterdam is like...

I need to check it out one day...

Jerson Zuleta

4:25 AM

@Cerberus There was a campaign in my city the other day in which a few bikes built the outline of a normal car and put it around their bikes so they'd take up the same space as a real car. It was funny to see all those drivers mad at them.

Cerberus

@IceBoy Yay!

@JersonZuleta Haha, very nice! Picture?

A bicycle parking lot near the central station.

The back side of that same parking lot.

Jerson Zuleta

3

It was something like that. We're not the first city to do so, though.

Cerberus

Haha, that is cool!

Must be difficult to manage, though.

Jerson Zuleta

It's worth it. Too many traffic jams due to the excessive amount of cars nowadays.

And not too many people use bicycles.

Cerberus

Right, they should legislate against that...

Promote biking and improve public transportation.

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