English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

I was reading an account by a British soldier in Burma in WWII, who said they killed a centipede that was close to 36" long. They cut it up with bayonets to kill it, and the four pieces averaged 9" each.

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Q: Why attend college not a college?

I realised that actually people say attend college not attend a college and I would like to know why you should not use a here. This is might be a simple question but it makes me pretty difficult to grasp a English language.

articles

Didn't we cover this?

A Beautiful Mind

@tchrist I don't know. I guess I am easily frightened. I am afraid of ghosts too, but I have not seen any.

Robusto

I have a feeling I answered a question like this, but I can't place it.

@ABeautifulMind It's fine to be afraid of creepy/crawly things. Some of them can do damage, and they're at least annoying.

tchrist

@Robusto “Afraid” is not really the appropriate response when it involves hysteria.

Robusto

Who mentioned hysteria?

I've walked up to tarantulas in New Mexico and examined them without any problem, but if I found one crawling up my leg the reaction would be different.

A Beautiful Mind

1:53 AM

I once saw a spider the size of a fist.

tchrist

@Robusto Desert tarantulas are docile and virtually harmless. Doesn’t mean seeing one crawling up your inner thigh wouldn’t give you a start.

One should of course know which local arthropods are dangerous to humans, which varies considerably around the world. You probably have a couple by you.

Robusto

@tchrist Black widows and brown recluse spiders, but they're scarce here.

tchrist

Yes, those were the two I had in mind.

Robusto

Scorpions are not something I like to have crawling around me, and will go out of my way to avoid them.

tchrist

Killer crayfish are remarkably rare.

Robusto

2:01 AM

They say the smaller the scorpion the more dangerous it can be.

tchrist

Well, all arachnids are of course venomous.

There are some in the Sonoran desert that can be dangerous to humans.

Most scorpion stings are not considered life threatening to humans — the exception is the sting of the bark scorpion, the most venomous in the United States. Most of the scorpions in the U.S. are found in the southwest, preferring the warm, dry climates found in Arizona, California and New Mexico.

NOTE: Even stings that are not life-threatening can be terribly unpleasant.

Robusto

No shit.

I've been stung by bees before, and it ain't something I'd care to repeat.

When I was around six my brother picked a bee off a flower and brought it to my mother. Amazed that he could do such a feat, and that I was older than him, I set out to demonstrate my own bravery in the face of danger. So I bravely plucked a bee off a flower and started to bring it to my mother. You can guess what happened then.

crl

lol lucky brother

tchrist

I’ve probably been stung by some sort of bee or wasp a hundred times.

Most were sweat bees or honey bees.

Hm, maybe more than 100 times.

A few times a year, I figure.

Robusto

What is it, carelessness or masochism?

tchrist

2:12 AM

Neither.

It’s spending a lot of time outside.

crl

By horse-flies also, in the mountains, those are pretty annoying

Robusto

Well, I spend a lot of time outside and I seldom get stung.

Deer flies, on the other hand, seek me out.

tchrist

I enjoy hiking through flower-filled fields, never mown nor disturbed. It is impossible to be "careful enough" to avoid ever being stung.

And if you’re in a hurry for some reason, it’s inevitable.

Robusto

Just hope you never run into any Africanized bees.

tchrist

Their threat is wildly overstated. Plus, it is good to run.

Not a problem.

They do not like cold.

Where “cold” means non-near-tropical.

Robusto

2:21 AM

@tchrist I don't quite understand the chart. Why are colors related to years and not occurrences?

tchrist

Just mapping the incursions.

When they were first identified in each county.

You can outrun them, you realize.

Robusto

If you can run in the terrain you're in. Not handily if you're rock climbing.

Cerberus

Hello everyone!

tchrist

That is true. However, it is hard to think of a situation where you would provoke an attack while rock climbing. Usually they attack because people make too much noise: tractors, lawnmowers, weedeaters.

Robusto

@Cerberus Hiya, doggy.

Cerberus

2:26 AM

woof!

I am in a good mood.

Robusto

Good mood is good.

Cerberus

What monsters incur into your lands?

It is!

tchrist

None.

Well, none new.

Cerberus

I'm slightly tipsy, and we have got the Minister to promise reforms, in no less than five days!

Robusto

My son says you can ward off wasps by clapping your hands smartly, because they don't like the noise.

Cerberus

2:27 AM

Occupations work!

tchrist

Current USDA map.

Cerberus

@Robusto Make sure you don't catch one between your hands...

tchrist

@Robusto Don’t do that with Africanized bees: you’ll just make them madder. RUN

Cerberus

I prefer electrical bats.

Or rackets, what do you call them?

tchrist

Noise draws their ire.

Cerberus

2:28 AM

They are more like rackets.

tchrist

@Cerberus Eh?

Cerberus

Not in that way!

Occupying the university.

Three major parties in parliament have also vowed their support. They are not a majority yet, though, nor are they in the ruling coalition.

tchrist

@Cerberus E-fliedermäuse?

If three major parties are not a majority, they weaken the “major” brand. :)

So, protests.

Cerberus

@tchrist Nicht solche.

Robusto

@tchrist Die fledermaus

tchrist

2:31 AM

One can dream of electric mice.

@Robusto That’s what I typed at first, and the damn thing underlined it

Robusto

Weil es ein deutsches Wort ist .

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, indeed, but we have many parties. And those were two kinds of "major", the former not being only about size. It also means parties that are taken seriously, unlike, say, the Evangelicals or the Party for the Animals.

tchrist

@Robusto I guess I need an F.

Cerberus

@Robusto Perhaps Flieder- is possible in older or dialectical German?

Robusto

Perhaps.

tchrist

2:33 AM

Flittermice.

Cerberus

E.g., Dutch has vleermuis, but a fleece is a vlies.

Or are those not related?

Robusto

I'd be surprised if they weren't.

Cerberus

Yeah.

tchrist

Which fleece?

As in Golden?

Cerberus

Yes.

The other one is flessen, oddly.

But I think flessen( )trekken is also possible.

Bottle-pulling.

Robusto

2:34 AM

Probably fleder and "flutter" are the related words.

Cerberus

Probably!

tchrist

> Com. WGer. OE. fléos neut., corresponds to Dutch vlies, MHG. vlies (Ger. fliesz, vliesz); there is also a form with umlaut, OE. flíes, flýs = MHG. vlius (Ger. fleusz, flüsz); the two types represent WGer. *fleusoz-, fliusiz-; an ablaut variant *flûso-z appears in MLG. and MHG. vlûs sheepskin, mod.Ger. flaus masc. woollen coat. Connexion with the root of L. plūma feather, plume, is probable.

Cerberus

We also have fladderen "to flap".

tchrist

@Cerberus Why are they different words? :)

Cerberus

@tchrist Aha!

Robusto

2:35 AM

Die Fledermaus

Die Fledermaus (The Bat) is an operetta composed by Johann Strauss II to a German libretto by Karl Haffner (de) and Richard Genée. == Literary sources == The original source for Die Fledermaus is Das Gefängnis (The Prison), a farce by German playwright Julius Roderich Benedix (1811–1873). Another source is the French vaudeville play Le réveillon, by Henri Meilhac and Ludovic Halévy, which was first translated by Karl Haffner into a non-musical play to be produced in Vienna. However, the peculiarly French custom of the réveillon (a New Year's Eve supper party) caused problems, which were solved...

Only reason I remembered the word at all!

tchrist

@Robusto Yes, I know. That’s why I typed it without an I at first.

@Robusto Well, plus I know flittermice.

Cerberus

@tchrist Well, this would suggest that the two are of different pedigree but fell together in English.

tchrist

@Cerberus Don’t seem to be.

Cerberus

No?

tchrist

Fireflies and bats.

@Cerberus I don’t see two different roots in the OED for any fleece.

Cerberus

2:38 AM

But the etymology of flessen "to cheat" is entirely clear in Dutch and is from fles "bottle".

So what does the OED say about "cheat"?

Could it be a Batavism in English?

tchrist

@Rob In Spanish, bats are murciélagos while fireflies are luciérnagas. Fun words to say.

Cerberus

> 1530s in the literal sense of "to strip (a sheep) of fleece," from fleece (n.). From 1570s in the figurative meaning "to cheat, swindle, strip of money.

Hmm.

That is an odd coincidence.

tchrist

All cheating is from French.

Cerberus

Are you sure?

tchrist

> ME. chete, aphetic f. achete (acheat), phonetic variant of eschete, escheat.

All three entries in the OED for cheat, yes.

Cerberus

2:40 AM

Yes, but fleecing and swindling...

tchrist

I was referring to the literal word cheat.

Cerberus

I know this now.

tchrist

Hablando del Rey de Roma

Cerberus

But it came right after my quotation, which mentioned three synonyms.

Evvero?

Del Rey de Francia!

tchrist

“Speaking of the devil” in English.

Why the Roman king should be considered diabólico, no lo sé.

:)

Cerberus

2:45 AM

I know that.

Probably because he punishes you if you gossip about him where he can hear it.

I said evvero because I didn't know we were talking about Crl.

tchrist

Oh.

We need more questions like this if etymology is ever going to attract enough male students. — John Lawler 2 hours ago

Go ahead, make my day: why did Lawler say that?

Cerberus

@JohnLawler: Enough...to procreate with the existing female students of etymology, in order to create more little etymologists? Who will watch to establish their origins? — Cerberus 36 secs ago

@tchrist Perhaps because he felt the subject was geeky in a masculine way?

I don't know.

tchrist

Maybe because the OP is a mister?

It is a very odd thing to say.

Cerberus

3:04 AM

Quite.

An obscene reference seems unlikely.

tchrist

Well, the question has attracted the attentions of me and JJB, both notably male. :)

@Cerberus No, I cannot imagine Lawler would do that.

Entomologists reproduce by formicating.

Cerberus

Hah.

@tchrist That would indeed be cheating on etymology.

A deviation.

Robusto

3:37 AM

@tchrist I find I have to contort my mouth differently to affect a better Spanish accent.

It isn't just a question of saying different words. It's a completely different oral "posture."

Cerberus

3:56 AM

You are aware that ISIS has threatened to come to Rome, right? This is the Roman response, which is quite hilarious (and short):

Italians Laugh Off ISIS Threats On Twitter

►

tchrist

4:33 AM

@Robusto Yes, I have alluded to that. It's kinda hard to explain.

tchrist

4:58 AM

@Cerberus Doubtless this is some anticrusader crusading backlash, many MANY centuries too late. Still, I bet the Colosseum would draw a sell-out crowd if it were gladiators against scimitars. Imagine the tourism!

Cerberus

@tchrist Exactly!

And thank you for spelling it right.

tchrist

How else does one spell it?

The corpus callosum is something else altogether.

Cerberus

Well, I have seen coliseum.

Which I think is a bastardization of the Spanish or something?

tchrist

That makes no sense.

Cerberus

It's in the dictionary.

I have seen it in actual use.

tchrist

5:04 AM

El Coliseo romano.

I don't know how that happened.

I would be concerned for the lions' welfare.

infinitesimal

I have seen it as coliseum also.

Cerberus

nods

tchrist

Thst would be a colossal blunder, especially for a Rhodes scholar.

infinitesimal

And so has my spell checker :-)

Cerberus

A Rhodian scholar?

tchrist

5:08 AM

Just so.

infinitesimal

Colosseum looks strange.

Cerberus

Well, then you should spell it en grec.

@infinitesimal It's just old. Some bits were removed.

Archaic?

If you will.

The Colossus of Rhodes /roʊdz/ (Ancient Greek: ὁ Κολοσσὸς Ῥόδιος ho Kolossòs Rhódios) was a statue of the Greek titan-god of the sun Helios, erected in the city of Rhodes, on the Greek island of the same name, by Chares of Lindos in 280 BC. It is considered one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. It was constructed to celebrate Rhodes' victory over the ruler of Cyprus, Antigonus I Monophthalmus, whose son unsuccessfully besieged Rhodes in 305 BC. Before its destruction in the earthquake of 226 BC, the Colossus of Rhodes stood over 30 metres (98 feet) high, making it one of the tallest statues...

infinitesimal

5:10 AM

What else could it be @Cerberus?

Cerberus

I'm not sure what you mean.

tchrist

@Cerberus He means the orthography not the edifice, but I have no idea why.

Cerberus

@infinitesimal Look, Wikipaedia will tell you why it is spelled thus.

infinitesimal

If not "archaic"

Cerberus

Such a pity that it was destroyed.

tchrist

5:12 AM

Parthenon

Cerberus

Though something tells me the Christians would have destroyed it.

Just as IS is now destroying monuments.

The Parthenon was not fully destroyed.

Have you seen the videos of IS's destroying Assyrian statues and city walls?

It makes me physically sick. Much more so than the killing of people.

tchrist

Sick. Just like the T.

Cerberus

What T?

Few organisations in recent history have destroyed ancient artifacts for the sake of it.

tchrist

@Cerberus I'm islamocensoring for search pessimization.

Cerberus

Hitler comes to mind, who ordered his generals to blow up the monuments of Paris.

tchrist

5:15 AM

@Cerberus Alibaban.

Cerberus

@tchrist Not sure what you are censoring.

infinitesimal

What does IS stand for?

Cerberus

The Islamic State.

infinitesimal

Thank you

Cerberus

They are destroying our culture in Iraq and Syria.

Which is indirectly our own doing.

tchrist

5:16 AM

Need to rename to WAS, or preferably HAD BEEN.

Cerberus

We, the West, have been destabilising the Near East for a century or so.

Haha.

That would be nice.

infinitesimal

They do have the "right"

Cerberus

Of course not.

They are evil.

tchrist

The nuclear fallout will be terrible beyond imagining.

Cerberus

What nuclear fallout?

infinitesimal

5:19 AM

Human nature is evil.

Cerberus

There will be no nuclear strike.

tchrist

And Russia will not gobble up more territory.

Cerberus

Russia might...

But who would strike whom?

Besides, nuclear bombs normally don't have a huge amount of fallout.

Some, but nothing like a first-generation nuclear plant on fire.

Of course you could make a bomb with a lot of fallout.

tchrist

Very confusing. Possibly Iran, but it's all downhill from there.

Cerberus

Nah.

Whom would Iran strike?

Or by whom would it be struck?

infinitesimal

5:22 AM

Iraq

Cerberus

Haha never.

infinitesimal

Israel

Cerberus

Iraq is now Iran's ally, since the Americans helped Iran's Shiite friends gain power in Iraq.

infinitesimal

You're no laughting now :-)

tchrist

Bagdad would be gone. Maybe Mecca.

Cerberus

5:23 AM

Israel will not throw a nuclear on Iran except in self-defence, because it would serve absolutely no purpose.

And vice versa.

And throwing nuclears on IS will most likely not work either.

infinitesimal

But it could happen

tchrist

"Nuclear self-defence" sounds very odd.

Cerberus

Extremely unlikely, in the current situation.

tchrist

IS isn't centralized enough.

Cerberus

@tchrist Well, if Iran were about to conquer Jerusalem, maybe, maybe Israel would consider it.

tchrist

5:25 AM

But there are madmen in Iran.

Cerberus

Or if Iran threw a nuclear on Israel first.

Nah, they are fairly rational in Iran.

infinitesimal

IS is what it is :-)

Cerberus

They are quite able to protect their own position.

Throwing around nuclears will incur the wrath of the West, and sharp retaliation.

It would be political and military suicide.

The first thing America would do is conquer Iran, if they did that, and oust the régime.

And of course they know that.

tchrist

I am pretty sure there are enough crazies between the Bosporus and the Himalayas that no country between can be said to hold a monopoly on nutjobs.

infinitesimal

Dessert nuclear storm?

Cerberus

5:27 AM

The Soviets never nuked anyone either.

tchrist

@Cerberus They have changed their policy recently.

Cerberus

@tchrist There are enough crazies everywhere. But the ones who gain and hold power are usually pretty good at not committing suicide.

@tchrist Nah.

tchrist

Boy, do I have bad news for yous.

Cerberus

Russia would gain nothing and lose much by nuking countries.

You only nuke an opponent without nuclear allies.

infinitesimal

India even has nukes

Cerberus

5:30 AM

Yup.

The Pakistani nukes are the most dangerous in the world, because the country is somewhat unstable.

Iran is stable.

tchrist

economist.com/news/briefing/…

Cerberus

No nukes.

But I must to bed.

Even though I will probably sleep badly or not at all.

infinitesimal

Later pal.

Why the troubled sleep?

I hope not because of this chat.

Cerberus

Haha of course not.

I'm just a bad sleeper.

tchrist

> But Mr Putin is fond of saying that nobody should try to shove Russia around when it has one of the world’s biggest nuclear arsenals. Mr Kiselev puts it even more bluntly: “During the years of romanticism [ie, detente], the Soviet Union undertook not to use nuclear weapons first. Modern Russian doctrine does not. The illusions are gone.”

Cerberus

5:33 AM

My sleep cycle is way off again.

And my nose is stuffed.

So I wake up without air.

@tchrist Bluff, of course.

infinitesimal

do you have allergies?

Cerberus

Nope.

tchrist

@Cerberus Me, too. Catface.

Cerberus

I even took an anti-histamine pill just in case, but no.

I just suffer from many mild, but very much prolonged colds, I think.

tchrist

Apnaea?

infinitesimal

5:35 AM

Try vitamin C

Cerberus

Well, not quite: it's just the stuffed nose.

I have taken a vitamin C.

infinitesimal

Take more.

tchrist

1g morning & night.

Cerberus

If I sleep breathing through my mouth, I don't wake up out of breath.

But of course that is hardly comfortable either.

And I shouldn't have drunk beer tonight.

tchrist

Mouthbreather. ;-)

Cerberus

5:37 AM

Oh, well.

tchrist

Hops allergy.

Cerberus

?

Oh, no.

Just the alcohol.

Alcohol is bad for you.

tchrist

Alcohol destroys normal sleep.

Biphasic havok.

Cerberus

Yeah, well, when my sleep cycle is OK and my nose isn't stuffed, I sleep OK with alcohol, if it isn't too much.

infinitesimal

Alcohol destroys lives.

Cerberus

5:38 AM

I does.

tchrist

Beer can stuff me a little.

Cerberus

Stuff your nose?

tchrist

Yeah

Cerberus

Any alcohol can stuff my nose.

And sleep deprivation.

tchrist

I always though it was the hops.

Cerberus

5:39 AM

Perhaps I'll see my doctor this week.

infinitesimal

Try that.

Go to a specialist

tchrist

Vodka and scotch don't stuff me like beer can.

Cerberus

Well, I don't know about you, but alcohol just multiplies any bad thing you're suffering from, once you sober up.

Hmm interesting.

tchrist

Separately, of course.

SO PAST BEDTIME

Cerberus

I have never noticed any allergy in myself (except that for physical exercise after not having done any for a while).

Is it past your bedtime?

tchrist

5:41 AM

Cold- or exercise-induced rhinitis, or both?

God yes, many hours.

Cerberus

No, not rhinitis.

That's separate.

Cold makes my nose stuffed, of course, as it does anyone else's.

tchrist

Did you have childhood asthma?

Cerberus

Nope, never anything.

tchrist

Were people smoking around you?

Cerberus

The exercise allergy has nothing to do with respiratory stuff.

No.

tchrist

5:45 AM

Ok

Cerberus

My skin starts itching all over and I get extremely nauseous.

So I have to stop immediately.

tchrist

Stop....?

Cerberus

People who have a more serious variant can get into anaphylactic shock.

Stop running.

tchrist

Wow.

Nausea is normal in distance running, but an actual histamine reaction is new to me.

Cerberus

It's not directly related to how exhausted I am.

It only starts after ca. 5 minutes or more, no matter how fast I run.

When I stop running, it disappears within a minute.

tchrist

5:48 AM

Are you sure you aren't left-handed?

Cerberus

If I then start running again, it returns almost immediately, even if I'm not really panting yet.

Scuse me?

infinitesimal

The name further evolved to Coliseum during the Middle Ages. In Italy, the amphitheatre is still known as il Colosseo, and other Romance languages have come to use similar forms such as Coloseumul (Romanian), le Colisée (French), el Coliseo (Spanish) and o Coliseu (Portuguese).

tchrist

Just checking.

Cerberus

What does it have to do with sinistry?

tchrist

Rare-trait clustering.

Cerberus

5:49 AM

Oh.

Well, I am not.

But, yeah, this thing is rare. If it is what I think it is.

After having exercised once or twice within a week or so, the issue will disappear when I go running a third time etc.