English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

12:01 AM

@tchrist Oh right. That actually was my close reason. And I almost said so.

tchrist

Yep.

And now he has prayed for divine intervention against the bullies.

Bullies often do that.

Mitch

@Cerberus That's not a proper response. "Argument is an intellectual process ... contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says." 2 pts

tchrist

In the tales, Zeus is seldom merciful. We have no Greek gods amongst us, however, so one dare not extrapolate.

More blind people looking around a dark room for a black cat that isn’t there:

The OED has 687 words that begin with ge-, gi-, gy- and which have a /dʒ/ or /ʒ/ phoneme there. You must not have looked very hard. It also has 155 that go the other way. By this you can rightly infer that the guaranteed rule for pronouncing words that begin that way is here as always to look them up in an accredited dictionary. Period. — tchrist 7 mins ago

A pure English word. Dunno what that is.

I know only impure ones.

Plus, he’s stretching it on the Greek part.

Just asking for jynaecological gests.

Anthony

Hello!

I had a quick question.

Cerberus

@Mitch No.

tchrist

12:16 AM

I’m glad to see you finally using Fahrenheit again.

Cerberus

This is how people in Amsterdam get around:
Blue = car
Red = public transport
Green = bike
Orange = walking and other

@tchrist You know I love Fahrenheit.

By the way, can you make sure Udall retains his seat in the senate?

Ktxbai.

tchrist

Especially the subzero part in ultraviolet.

@Cerberus Legally?

Cerberus

Oh, I don't know about your laws...

Just make it happen.

tchrist

I’ve also voted for him. He used to be my district’s representative in the US House.

Now we have Jared Polis.

Cerberus

Oh, they switch about.

Never heard of him.

tchrist

12:19 AM

First gay member of congress to be elected after coming out instead of before.

Cerberus

Oh, funny.

Is he any good?

tchrist

He’s ok. He rants against the oil barons who need it, but I think he sleeps with them too, as he tones down his rhetoric at times when “compromise” is needed.

Cerberus

By the way, traffic deaths have fallen again in 2013. We had 34 deaths per million.

tchrist

He has a fucking fracking catastrophe in his front lawn and it pisses him off. Go figger.

Cerberus

That helps. What happens, is fracking that bad?

tchrist

12:22 AM

Poisons groundwater.

Is a terrible eyesoar.

Loud and annoying.

Cerberus

Hmm but it is allowed?

tchrist

Causes earthquakes.

Well, that’s just the thing.

There’s a fight going on here now about whether counties, townships, and municipalities have the legal right to ban it in their district even if the state says it is legal.

The oil barons don’t want to waste their time paying off all the little self-rule districts’ self-rulers, having already paid off the state legislators.

Cerberus

Ugh.

tchrist

Yeah.

So in general, Polis is considered "radical left" by most of America, even though he started out as a business owner and is hardly radical in any sense whatsoever. He is only left of the rabid right. He tries to do right but politics is stinky.

Cerberus

Heh.

The money thing is of course a problem.

Everywhere...

tchrist

12:26 AM

He’s been trying to get the eco-disaster out of his front lawn. Hard to blame him.

Cerberus

Indeed.

tchrist

And now the big-D Democrats are afraid he’s making too many waves and will cost them seats because of it.

washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/21/…

His positions are here: ontheissues.org/house/Jared_Polis.htm

The only lightning rod he hasn’t drawn yet is gun control. Which he is in strong favor of but keeps quiet.

Too many folks with rifles in these mountains, although I forget the exact lines of Colorado’s 2nd Congressional District.

But owning a rifle when you live in a national wilderness area filled with bears and pumas is very different from walking around with a handgun.

Cerberus

Indeed.

> he defeated veteran Democrat Joan Fitz-Gerald, the first woman state Senate president, in the congressional primary by outspending her 4 to 1.

It surprises me how openly yet casually the people talk about corruption, as if it were the commonest thing in the world, not worthy of anyone's consideration.

If it is so well known, why doesn't anyone do anything about it?

tchrist

That’s not considered corruption here.

You are buying spamvertising not votes. In theory.

Cerberus

The fact that whoever is in power is determined mainly by how much money he spends is a little bit odd.

Or that this is accepted.

tchrist

12:40 AM

I have abandoned all hope of reform in that area. It sickens me to death.

All politicians spend all their time begging for handouts because of this.

Cerberus

Or perhaps we should see it as a good sign, that people recognise the fact.

tchrist

Only panhandlers can get elected, or stay that way.

Cerberus

Some good counter-initiatives have been taken.

tchrist

In this country?

Cerberus

Or how do you feel about the anti-corruption super PAC?

Yours, yes.

tchrist

12:42 AM

How do I feel? Ignorant. Jaded.

I used to be hopeful but discontent.

That was in my youth.

I am no longer young.

I think they’re all rascals.

The Udalls have a sense of duty towards their country, the kind of thing you want in a patrician. I have nothing bad to say against them.

Cerberus

Noblesse oblige.

tchrist

I mean honest service, sacrifice. Not pork crap.

But a lot of people start out that way and lose it.

Now, I don’t see how a good man could ever be elected.

The money things, the public scrutiny, who the fuck would ever want to put up with all that bullshit? No sane man. No one I trust.

Cerberus

I am now watching the House of Cards.

tchrist

The gotcha intrusiveness. Find a picture of a candidate picking his nose as a ten-year-old, and it's all over.

Cerberus

The original British version.

All politicians are rotten to the core, except the King.

@tchrist Do people really change their voting preference based on such things?

tchrist

12:47 AM

Kevin Spacey is a fine actor.

Cerberus

I do not know him.

tchrist

@Cerberus Did you ever pay someone to mow your lawn or babysit your kids? Where is that declared on your federal income tax return, and where is that money? You are a thief and a scofflaw and unfit to hold public office. You probably should be in jail.

That’s what they have to put up with.

It is insane.

Kevin Spacey

Kevin Spacey Fowler, CBE (born July 26, 1959), widely known as Kevin Spacey, is an American actor, film director, writer, producer, and comedian. He began his career as a stage actor during the 1980s, before being cast in supporting roles in film and television. He gained critical acclaim in the early 1990s, culminating in his first Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for The Usual Suspects (1995), followed by an Academy Award for Best Actor for American Beauty (1999). During a career which has earned Spacey several Emmy and Golden Globe nominations, his other starring roles include Seven ...

Cerberus

@tchrist Um, what? Why would people care about small infractions?

Voters, I mean.

tchrist

@Cerberus Because of the relentless and scurrilous attack ads they generate. The media become saturated with them. I kid you not. Those things disqualify you, utterly.

Cerberus

But why do people still let themselves be influenced by such ads?

People aren't stupid.

tchrist

12:52 AM

hahahahahahahhahhah

Mudslinging about completely outrageous bullshit of no substance has been proven to work time and time again.

So they do it.

The average person is about as smart as a 40-watt bulb is bright.

And 50% are dumber still.

Cerberus

Hmm can't they outlaw mudslinging, then?

tchrist

1st Amendment.

They can’t even fucking outlaw gunslinging. You expect them to manage mudslinging?

Calling your opponent a no-good scoundrel will never be outlawed.

Nor should it.

Non verbis sed rebus, as I’ve said once already today. If only it were so.

Cerberus

Well, we normally only make exceptions to freedom of speech in exceptional circumstances, when the harm done by speech is too great.

Such as with serious defamation.

If this is such a serious problem...

Mitch

Freedom is strength

Ignorance is golden

Warren Peace... Esq.

Ya know that 'Keep Calm and Carry On' poster from WWII England that has become mutated and memed out of the universe?

Cerberus

1:12 AM

I don't really get it, it lacks...well, humour.

Mitch

It was originally only a set of posters that was found in some attic somewhere...and were never actually distributed ever, even during WWII. So it never was a thing, until they publicized it recently.

@Cerberus It's totally earnest. And sounds like the british stiff upper lip, power under adversity.

Except what is there nowadays that is so adverse?

On the other hand...

Cerberus

1:32 AM

@Mitch Well, adversity.

tchrist

@Mitch Actually, it turns out that it does fall under @Andrew’s semi-standard proofreading response:

Welcome to ELU.SE. Unfortunately proof-reading is explicitly off-topic. Proofreading questions can come in many forms: "Help me fix this", "What's wrong with this", "Are there any mistakes", "Which is correct", but they all involve reading a specific text and won't really help anyone else. Please identify what you're particularly concerned about, and edit the question to indicate that. It's possible, of course, that there's already a question for it. If the title expresses the actual problem succinctly, you may find suitable existing questions are suggested. — Andrew Leach ♦ Oct 18 at 14:23

“Is this right?” doesn’t help anybody.

The only bully here is the person asking that the moderators do something about bullying. He’d best hope his wish is not granted.

He’s a pushy and demanding, and he bullies anyone who should dare answer him in any way.

So I won’t, and I bet you won’t anymore either.

Plus when I cast that first vote, the question was substantially different.

Yes, it’s dressed up ever so slightly fancier than asking whether fancier is the comparative degree of fancy, but in the end, it is a question of no lasting virtue.

It isn’t even All Hallows yet, but you couldn’t tell that from the visitors.

Dec 19 '13 at 13:52, by tchrist

"What a happiness this must have been seventy or eighty years ago and upwards, to those chosen few who had the good luck to be born on the eve of this festival of all festivals; when the whole earth was so overrun with ghosts, boggles, Bloody Bones, spirits, demons, ignis fatui, brownies, bugbears, black dogs, spectres, shellycoats, scarecrows, witches, wizards, barguests, Robin-Goodfellows, hags, night-bats, scrags, breaknecks, fantasms, hobgoblins, hobhoulards, boggy-boes, dobbies, hob-thrusts, fetches, kelpies, warlocks, mock-beggars, mum-pokers, Jemmy-burties, urchins, satyrs, pans, fau…

Those ones.

Silly thing apocopates.

There’s more where those come from.

Mitch

1:48 AM

@tchrist holding my tongue. the original questions are kind of interesting, but really, Shakespeare just did what he felt like and everybody is trying to force rules on him after the fact. That's the only good answer.

tchrist

@Mitch Yep.

Mitch

You left out 'balrogs'

tchrist

Especially a random pineapple prick
ing us with inane requests for us to do him
all his work for him, and he does nothing
but hector and harangue, bicker and plague.

@Mitch It cut it off early. Check the original.

Is a satyr the same as a pan?

What is a mum-poker? Can that really mean what I think it means?

What’s a shellycoat?

Can you get the gallytrots on solid ground?

What do get get when you cross a puck with a fay?

What’s a wirrikow, and is the plural wirrikine?

Is a gringe like a grinch?

Or is more like a grange where it lives?

Does it ever wash?

What do you think a nicknevin nicks?

I was wondering about korigans.

Isn’t ouphs supposed to be spelt ouves?

Do you think yeth-hounds are relatives of Cerberus?

Do thurses and spunks run around together?

What’s the difference between a freith and a freit?

Are chittifaces like chatty Cathies, or have they just been drinking too much?

I wonder about tantarrabobs.

Is the last and ungrammatical?

Aren’t trows and trolls the same thing?

Are you familiar with kitty-witches?

What do cauld-lads do in the summer?

How is a dobby different from a boggy?

And what about that hobbit?

Ice Boy

Are you ok pal?

tchrist

Halloween.

Ice Boy

2:02 AM

oh

tchrist

See the original quote.

Ice Boy

i saw

tchrist

What a joy to’ve been in England in those times it must have been!

Now we have nothing but trolls.

Ice Boy

yep, they're everywhere

tchrist

I also find the distance separating the incubuses from the succubuses a bit hard to swallow.

Oh look they had caddies!

I knew that golf was old, but not that old!

Look, they had larrs! I thought those were spelt lares.

Mormos under your eaves.

I wonder about kit-a-can-sticks.

So much to discover in that green and pleasant land.

By night.

> There was not a village in England that had not its own peculiar ghost. Nay, every lone tenement, castle, or mansion-house, which could boast of any antiquity had its bogle, its spectre, or its knocker. The churches, churchyards, and crossroads were all haunted. Every green lane had its boulder-stone on which an apparition kept watch at night. Every common had its circle of fairies belonging to it.

Foxfire is green, right?

> In modern science, it is generally accepted that most ignis fatuus are caused by the oxidation of phosphine (PH3), diphosphane (P2H4), and methane (CH4). These compounds, produced by organic decay, can cause photon emissions. Since phosphine and diphosphane mixtures spontaneously ignite on contact with the oxygen in air, only small quantities of it would be needed to ignite the much more abundant methane to create ephemeral fires.

I guess the color varies.

You know, saying "most ignis futuus are" bothers me. Ignis is singular.

Best make that "are" an "is".

Think of it as a mass noun.

Dodge dodgy morphology.

Cerberus

2:52 AM

@tchrist Yes, what barbarian wrote that?

But I have never seen such fires, I'm afraid.

tchrist

4:04 AM

@Cerberus This “one”:

Will-o'-the-wisp

A will-o'-the-wisp (/ˌwɪl ə ðə ˈwɪsp/), will-o'-wisp (/ˌwɪl ə ˈwɪsp/), or ignis fatuus (/ˌɪɡnɨs ˈfætʃuːəs/; Medieval Latin: "foolish fire") are atmospheric ghost lights seen by travellers at night, especially over bogs, swamps or marshes. It resembles a flickering lamp and is said to recede if approached, drawing travellers from the safe paths. The phenomenon is known by a variety of names, including jack-o'-lantern, friars's lantern, hinkypunk, and hobby lantern in English folk belief, well attested in English folklore and in much of European folklore. == Etymology == The term "will-o'-the-wisp...

“An x, y, or z are” — huh?

Funny thing, really.

I can only conclude in sadness that the author or authors of the supercited article and I do not hold with the same notions of mandatory concord that betwixt subject and verb must here obtain.

> James or Jamie, or Jim or Jimmy, were the names that James Lord Pierpont variously went by throughout his long and exciting life, but his mates knew him always as Jamie, for that was the name his mother had given him.

Oh fine.

RegDwigнt

7:56 AM

Grrrr. People should be charged a fine for two-questions-in-one-and-both-are-dupes questions.

Matt Эллен

9:28 AM

I google
I have guggle
I gaggle
I bing
I have bung
I bang

Johan Larsson

what are you looking for?

Always ask here first imo.

Matt Эллен

all sorts of things :D I was just playing with words

RegDwigнt

0

Q: How did the verb 'remit' evolve to mean 'cancel from exacting' and 'send money'?

What's an intuitive derivation behind ODO's definitions 1 and 2 to remember their meaning? 1. remit (verb) = [with object] Cancel or refrain from exacting or inflicting (a debt or punishment) 2. Send (money) in payment or as a gift Etymonline: late 14c., "to forgive, pardon," from ...

etymology

0

Q: How did the noun 'remit' evolve to mean 'the task assigned' and 'an item referred'?

What's an intuitive derivation behind ODO's definitions 1 and 2 that helps to remember its meaning? 1. remit = [chiefly British] The task or area of activity officially assigned to an individual or organization 2. An item referred to someone for consideration Etymonline: late 14c., ...

etymology

Either I'm drunk, or stuff comes in pairs now.

Matt Эллен

lepressentiment grrr shakes fist

RegDwigнt

Asking for mnemonics is off-topic as far as I'm concerned.

Matt Эллен

9:35 AM

definitely

RegDwigнt

If you can remember what democracy means, then why not remit? It's two times shorter, even.

Learn all words by heart. Just like every single other human past present or future.

Matt Эллен

the first one is totally GR. it says in the quote "send back, slacken, let go back, abate" how is that not like cancelling?

medica

10:49 AM

@tchrist - unfortunately we will now have the opportunity to see how much damage can be done. Let's hope Mayor DiBlasio has a better understanding of the problem than he has of *big words*:
"There is no reason for New Yorkers to be alarmed," said de Blasio. "We've been preparing for months for the threat posed by Ebola. We have clear and strong protocols, which are being *scrumptiously* followed and were followed in this instance."

.

Omen

12:17 PM

I have a somewhat idiotic question if anyone is free?

Mitch

Shoot. We're all about that.

Omen

I have just had an answer (attached to a question) migrated over but I am not a member, and I think my answer does not follow your protocols

Mitch

link?

Omen

what do I do here?

2

Q: Replace "future work" with a phrase in three words?

Since I don't intend to continue work on my paper, I don't want to use the phrase "future work". After reading two similar questions (1 and 2), my first thinking is that most of the suggested replacements are long. There are two nominees that sound good: "Open questions" "Further discussion" or...

style

I have a sneaking suspicion that my answer will probably be downvoted to oblivion (or one of its suburbs)

Mitch

No worries. I don't think there'll be a problem.

People will realize it was migrated and so may not fit exactly with our expected style.

It'e a perfectly fine answer anyway.

Omen

12:25 PM

really?

Mitch

The question is for how to word something and you gave some suggestions with explanation.

Omen

ironically, my only real grasp on English, other than being a native speaker and Literacy Teacher, is technical writing and the often maligned poetry

Mitch

That's a not immodest assessment. :)

Omen

Physics is my language - one when i was very tired and a tad unwell, in reply to someone's greeting - I said "10 Newtons!"

that was a strange day

Mitch

ha ha! If I can barely get out 'seg fault' its a good day.

Omen

12:33 PM

I am ashamed to say that I used to fail English until 11th grade, when I was taught by one of the most remarkable teachers I have ever known.

Mitch

are you a grad student?

Omen

no, I am an Adjunct Lecturer (Physics) and high school teacher

Mitch

nice.

Omen

PhD in Atmospheric Radiation Detection

how about you?

Mitch

PhD CS

doing software.

Omen

12:36 PM

very nice! which languages?

Mitch

all? but that's academically. practically just Java and whatever is needed at the time.

Omen

awesome, I recently taught myself some Java - just enough to make some apps and to automate a few measurements on my home made suntracker

Mitch

nice.

How is it dealing with teenagers?

Omen

anyway, I better go to bed - it has been a very long day

@Mitch it has its moments...lol.... they like to stir me up

Mitch

Oh. yep. pascal to you!

something something joules.

Omen

12:43 PM

lol

Have been awake since 3am - and it is 10:45pm here

user116848

@Mitch I didn't know you were PhD. Nice Doc! :-)

user116848

hi all

Mitch

hi

Johan Larsson

1:08 PM

Getting close to first bread -> oven

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:20 PM

Johan Larsson

:)

@Mitch Bread looks like success, do you want a pic?

Jasper Loy

1:36 PM

I am now on Ubuntu Mate 14.10. It is the distro's first release. It is excellent.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson If I can't get a taste, a pic will do.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So they're saying go ahead and eat the apple cuz everyone else does? No one ever thinks of what the apple feels.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch That's one way to look at it. The wrong way, but still a way.

RegDwigнt

1

A: Which sounds more right in a website name/address: [product]available or available[product]?

From an SEO perspective, because bread is the subject, placing bread first gets the higher ranking.

Are we really still on ELU?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I thought name choice was off-topic.

RegDwigнt

And so it is, and so I closed it.

One step at a time. I was going to complain about the answer first, the question later.

Jasper Loy

1:50 PM

Wow, I think Ubuntu Mate is the best distro I have ever used, really, lol.

I think everyone in this chat should try it out, lol.

RegDwigнt

FFS.

You keep saying that five times a day every time you install a new OS.

Just stay with OS/2.

Jasper Loy

I have given up on Fedora, CentOS and Scientific Linux.

Andrew Leach

@RegDwigнt What? Has DOS been upgraded?

Jasper Loy

It's Debian, Ubuntu and Mint all the way.

RegDwigнt

@JasperLoy And yet these were the best distros you had ever used, really, lol.

@AndrewLeach no, downgraded. From Denial Of Service to Of Service By Two, to make sure that now not even the name works at all.

Mitch

1:53 PM

@JasperLoy Why don't computers just work already?

Jasper Loy

I think I will choose one of these four eventually: Debian with Mate, Ubuntu Mate, Mint Debian with Mate, and Mint Ubuntu with Mate.

Mitch

@AndrewLeach they just came out with, what MS-DOS 7.1?

Jasper Loy

@Mitch Once I am rich, I will get a copy of Windows and Office, and stick to it for life. Still better than Linux and LibreOffice.

Mitch

@JasperLoy I'm going to go with Pencil 1.0. Hmm..no with Pen 2.3 because that's how confident I am in what I write.

RegDwigнt

I've been using Windows all my life without being rich.

I've also been using Linux without being masochistic.

Jasper Loy

1:55 PM

@Mitch I prefer Mechanical Pencil 3.6, lol.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Once I am rich I will pay to have some one 'interface' with the 'net' for 'me'.

'for'

RegDwigнt

"For" is just an anagram for "rofl", and it's not even spelled correctly.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Those can get pretty fancy. Ir the markers that draw outlines? I mean some engineer (a materials scientist/mechanical engineer) was thinking hard on how to do that.

Jasper Loy

I think I will go and walk at my favourite mall tonight.

Mitch

Do they have a food court?

RegDwigнt

1:56 PM

He walks at night when everything's closed.

Jasper Loy

@Mitch Yes. One just had a few cockroaches and had to close down for a few days.

@RegDwigнt The food court is still open, 24 hours.

RegDwigнt

Of course. The cockroaches are hungry.