English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-11-16 (page 1 of 5)

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12:06 AM

passes road test

user19161

@Mahnax You can drive now?

@WillHunting Yessir.

user19161

@Mahnax OK, you can drive me around when I go there.

@WillHunting Haha, sure.

user19161

Haha, I get downvotes in all the unexpected places.

12:09 AM

If I ever posted I might get some.

user19161

Yeah, but the strange thing is I don't get them when I expect to and vice versa.

Hmm, I see.

user19161

Gee, there are certainly very harsh voters around these days.

user19161

1:01 AM

Over and out!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm not sure what you want me to heed? "podcast" is not a marketing or business term. And it's more than just "audio stream" in the same way that any particular song is more than just an audio stream. I'm not sure what is so objectionable about the word?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There you go.

You're lost already!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

because I don't hate a word simply because it's named after the ipod?

the word was not coined by apple

it's a portmanteau of ipod and broadcast

and it was appropriate because the ipod was the only mp3 player that people actually bought.

The ipod is still a pretty good mp3 player, all things considered.

the name aside, a podcast is like an audio blog.

but you probably hate the word "blog"

frankly I'm surprised you get by in English so well, considering how much of the language must grate at your latin and greek sensibilities.

Probably everything you read is like fingernails on a blackboard to you, isn't it?

screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

user19161

Hello @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 did you see the Tim Minchin question?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting yes

It should probably be closed as GR

user19161

1:14 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But it's not listed in the dictionary!

user19161

How is that GR?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting It was all basic meanings of words?

Try googling "lean on horn" or defining "camp"

user19161

Ah, anyway googling doesn't cut it for me. I need an "authoritative" dictionary! =)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean "I ate a sandwich" isn't in the dictionary, but someone asking what that means is still GR

user19161

Gee, we might as well close down the whole site at this rate!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:16 AM

@WillHunting Do you know the meaning of "lean"? and "horn"? (in this case, it's the car horn)

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Only the stuff with a broken etymology.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus podcast's etymology isn't broken

user19161

By the way, why do some SE sites have GR and some don't for closing?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting most sites don't have GRs to use as GRs. What would be the GR for stack overflow?

It isn't the Apple thing that bothers me so much, but mainly the fact that it's just audio files in a feed, as Reg said, which does not deserve a name, and in that regard a terribly ugly name like this is only fitting, I suppose.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:17 AM

@WillHunting You're being a bit dramatic. These were not complicated phrases or obscure idioms. They are basic sentences.

@Cerberus But they're not just "audio files in a feed".

I believe Reg.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's like a radio programme, only delivered over the internet.

@Cerberus Saying it's "just an mp3" is equating everything that might end up in an mp3 and saying we shouldn't have a name for it. Why stop there? It's all just bits. The web? just bits. Why call it a "web"? Some people hate spiders, you know! Think of the arachnophobes!

I mean, a web page is "just some text"

I just don't see how it is special.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Then call it Internet radio.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it is distinct from, eg, a song, in that a song is music, and a podcast is a programme. It might be hours long.

That is a good, descriptive term.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:20 AM

@Cerberus There already was something called internet radio which used different technology.

You said it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

podcasts are delivered in discrete chunks

you download it and listen at your leisure.

Like files.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I didn't call it "internet radio" though. I said it was "like a radio programme".

Why not call it an audio feed?

If that's what it is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:22 AM

@Cerberus that's ambiguous. Is it a constant audio feed? Besides, lots of people don't know what "feeds" are.

user19161

I wanna announce that I am no longer a fan of Justin Bieber with immediate effect.

Still far from elegant, but much more descriptive.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Podcast scores dramatically lower on all these criteria.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus podcast: a broadcast that goes to your ipod. How is that not descriptive?

Because it isn't.

It's not a broadcast.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Sure it is.

1:24 AM

A broadcast implies a timed signal.

And it doesn't go to your Ipod, does it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus and a "feed" implies eating.

@Cerberus Well, it did, at the time that the word was coined.

At least feed uses an acceptable metaphor, in that you feed information to a program.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus that's totally meaningless though. every program consumes information.

But you don't feed it stuff regularly.

That's the point of a feed: you are fed food for your ears on a schedule, like a cat.

The food is not cast at you continuously.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The thing is: there was already something called "internet radio" which was a lot like regular radio in that it was streaming and constant and you needed to be connected. People started making audio recordings and posting them, and eventually added RSS, and then automatic downloading of the newly posted recordings happened. But even when it was manual they were still "podcasts"

1:27 AM

Poor cat.

Even when it was manual?

Pathetic.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus But the feed is A) not a requirement of a podcast, and B) not under the listener's control. The feed is what delivers the podcast to your computer, whence iTunes or whatever loads it to your ipod

Ad B: the idea is that I'm the cat, and the website delivering the content is my feeder. He controls it.

Ad A: then how is it different from an audio file?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus How is a song different from a beep? or a buzz? or a comedy sketch? or a stream of random noise? How is an album different from a single?

Irrelevant.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The content and the regularity of the publication make it a podcast

Just like a website with a single page on it is not a blog

But regular posting makes it a blog.

1:31 AM

If you just have audio files on your website for people to download, then call them audio files. No need for a special silly word.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus How is a blog different from Stack Overflow? How is SO different from a forum?

In the same way, a podcast is different from "a collection of audio files".

Everything is different.

A website with audio files is nothing special. It's not even a unified format. It is nothing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I used to visit sites with collections of audio files. Like funny sounds or clips from movies. You could use them to make windows say "D'oh!" every time a program showed an error. That was not a podcast.

A podcast is like an audio blog.

Then call it an audio blog.

user19161

It seems that at this time it is usually Mr Shiny and Cerb chatting.

1:33 AM

See? That is immediately clear.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's too late. They already call it podcast.

Very descriptive.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Now you're jumping arguments.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus descriptive? it has the word "blog" in it

I wasn't going to say that weblog is of course better.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

blog is hardly descriptive. and it has such negative connotation.

1:34 AM

But a possibly obscuring abbreviation is not nearly as bad as a random silly word.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Like my dad, who says "I don't read blogs" with such scorn

@Cerberus It is not at all random.

At least it is less scorned than "podcast".

Besides, I disagree about this negative connotation.

user19161

@Cerberus Did blog come from weblog?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus But at the time, "blog" was actually a very hyped and overused word.

Except for people to whom all content on the Internet is inferior.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:36 AM

And anyway, "audio blog" is so long to say. "podcast" is faster and rhymes with "broadcast"

You're arguing that "blog" is a silly word and "podcast" is not. How odd.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, there are levels of inferiority.

Then call it an audio log.

We have already found a dozen words better than "podcast".

No word is perfect.

user19161

@Cerberus I answered a question here about podcaster.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Guess what's at the bottom?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:37 AM

@Cerberus No, actually... "audio blog" is the only good one you've proposed. And you'll find that it is in use.

@WillHunting I believe so.

@WillHunting Good for you...I think?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I only used that because you kept redefining "podcast". Which you needed to, because it is so vague. I have already heard different people use different definitions in this very chat room.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Actually, yes, and all better than "podcast".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It's not vague at all.

It is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

isn't.

One person said it included a feed, the other said it didn't.

And before today I just had no idea at all, even despite having read the word dozens of times. It was never clear.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:40 AM

@Cerberus That doesn't prove anything. If you didn't know what a blog was you would find yourself hard-pressed to understand that word either, and yet you say "audio blog" is a better term.

Why don't you just accept that many people express their displeasure about certain words and phrases? Almost everybody does it. It's normal.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The thing is, there are lots of similar things that are called "podcast". They have this in common: someone publishes something in audio format.

Like internet radio. And file lockers. And bittorrent. And Youtube.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It may be normal, but you express displeasure about almost all the words.

"The"?

Reg started it anyway.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:43 AM

@Cerberus almost all the words [in Modern English].

@Cerberus bittorrent and youtube are brands.

I'm going to have to ask you to provide evidence of my doing so for at least half the words in modern English before I will believe you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Just go through the transcript, it's all here

The burden of proof is not on me.

I feel light as a feather.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I feel no compunction to prove my hyperbolic statements.

Then I feel none either, to accept them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:46 AM

Anyway. Do you understand, now, why "audio file" is not a good label for the thing called "podcast"?

Tell Reg.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

irregardless of whether or not the word "podcast" is a good, cromulent word?

All I know is that, even after your various arguments, I still dislike "podcast" and I still find it lacking in descriptiveness.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't like the word much either.

Then why are we having this conversation?

But I know you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:48 AM

2 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway. Do you understand, now, why "audio file" is not a good label for the thing called "podcast"?

That's why

user19161

@Cerberus Because this is a chat room, duh. And people come here to talk.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Perhaps not, but I only suggested that because it was not clear what the word was supposed to mean. At any rate, I would have to accept your definition first...

@WillHunting That could be it!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus sigh of course, you never believe anything I say, so I don't know why I even try

As I said, I have heard other people give different definitions.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus you've heard Reg give a half-assed explanation because he didn't want to have to teach you all about it.

1:50 AM

There have been other cases where I disagreed with a definition you gave.

As you have with mine, no doubt.

So you shall have to content yourself with "perhaps not".

Are you, content?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm not just content, I'm presentation! I'm like CSS + HTML

So is it all about presentation now?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You should be able to understand presentation. You're always going on about people's clothes

Always?

I'm not very fashionable.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

almost as often as tchrist goes on about unicode

1:53 AM

Unpossible.

When was the last time?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

haha you're right, nobody's so single-minded as that

Because Tchrist did his thing at least yesterday, could have been today.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 At last you concede! I am glad we have been able to conclude this discussion on satisfactory terms.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Now onto better topics.

Like: android

I still don't have it.

user19161

Or Debian.

1:56 AM

And I had to flash 4.1.2 by hand, so 4.2 may never come over the air either.

user19161

@mr. The Fedora 18 release is delayed by 2 months!

Unless I reflash 4.1 first.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus how did you get your 4.2? factory image?

Oh, and my recovery mode seems to be broken.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

public boolean isUserAGoat ()

Used to determine whether the user making this call is subject to teleportations.

Returns
whether the user making this call is a goat

^ from the android 4.2 sdk

1:56 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I did not get it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus sorry I meant 4.1.2

I'm still on 4.1.2.

I don't remember, I downloaded it somewhere.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus and did you get it by installing a factory image?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Haha wtf?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, I just downloaded the update.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus developers.google.com/android/nexus/images

Just get the takju image

downside: it wipes the phone

1:58 AM

But I want yakju?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

upside: it's fast

Besides, my recovery mode seems to be broken.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Nah, takju is a superset of yakju I think

@Cerberus how did THAT happen

I thought takju was the Samsung variant?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I have no idea, I think it happened when I flashed 4.1.2.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

takju is yakju + google wallet

1:59 AM

Oh...

But do I want Google Wallet?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

if you have yakju right now you will wait a wile for the OTA

I can wait...and I can no doubt get Photosphere separately somewhere?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

if you install RomManager it might be able to install CWM Recovery while the phone is running

And maybe their Swype keyboard, although I have heard that it doesn't work as well as Swype.

BRB

Back.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

oh! I forgot about that swipe thing

I just tried it on my wife's gn

seems okay

2:03 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, I was thinking about doing something like that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

maybe not 100% as nice as swype, but I was able to type a sentence without any mistakes

I just get the android lying on its back with the red exclamation thingy when I try to start recovery mode...then eventually it just reboots.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I would like to compare the two anyway. And of course I need it to work at least as well as Swype in Dutch as well.

Or it will be useless.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus hm, dutch.

Google Voice, for example, is totally inferior in Dutch.

It recognises words pretty well, but it won't do half the things the English version does.

@tchrist This Jesus/Judas, for example, is really not bad.

2:06 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 By the way, do you know why people seem to prefer CWM Recovery over stick recovery? I used to have CWM installed, but does it really matter?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus CWM can be used for installing custom roms

if you are running stock you probably don't need cwm

And normal recovery can't?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus TBH I'm not even sure what's in normal recovery

pretty sure it doesn't allow just loading up some random firmware

I can also flash any file with the Nexus Toolkit, so why do I need CWM, even if I want to flash a ROM?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus CWM makes it easy

2:08 AM

But it is even easier with the Toolkit?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Once rooted, and with the proper version of CWM installed (Rom Manager installed the latest CWM, which is broken for the TF101, but it allows a downgrade), I was able to download and install CyanogenMod without any shenanigans

@Cerberus Also remember: most devices are not nexuses

5

Q: Death by exploding office chair?

Some old news reports "Chinese boy killed when height adjusting mechanism in chair explodes" 1 There are a lot of similar news, all happened in China. Can this mechanisms explode ? Is the explosion sufficient to hurt or kill a person ? Any statistics for number of people killed in any region (...

consumer-products death china

It must be a terrible death!

Hello my friend.

user19161

@Carlo_R. WTF!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Carlo_R. I never realized I was sitting on a bomb all this time!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So you are saying it may be useless for Nexus? I still heard lots of people going on about it for the Galaxy Nexus, but perhaps that is indeed the issue here.

2:12 AM

WTF, what is it mean?

Okay, so what would you do: flash stock recovery, or flash CWM? I can do either through the Toolkit.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I wouldn't say "useless". "not strictly necessary", perhaps. Certainly you don't need it if you're running stock. When do you ever use the recovery.

@Cerberus Either will probably work fine.

To restore factory state when my phone is fucked up, or to flash zips, or to make back-ups...

Which would be safer?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm pretty sure the stock recovery won't flash arbitrary zips. Or make backups.

Because at least my phone is working, if not recovery mode.

user19161

2:14 AM

@Carlo_R. I leave you to find out for yourself...

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I seem to remember it did...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Carlo_R. It means "What the fuck" or, less commonly, any other W-question word (who the fuck, why the fuck, etc)

Any device that requires CWM to recover is evidently Welsh.

I thought that was Cimerian or something?

Thank you Will amd @Mr.Sh.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:16 AM

@Cerberus haha, that's odd. I just tried going into the recovery on my Nexus S and I get the same android with the red triangle.

And it's pure stock.

Huh!

What OS version?

I only discovered it when I was trying to help someone else too.

Okay, tell me what to flash: stock or CWM?

@Carlo_R. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Good night to everyone. It is too late to me (GMT+1). I'm gooing to sleep. I hope to see you tomorrow. @Robusto: Funny!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't think your recovery is broken. hang on, researching.

Oh?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:19 AM

@Cerberus 4.1.2

Ah, same version.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I see web posts talking about this for 4.0.4 too

I didn't research it because I didn't think "red triangle jelly bean" would find anything...

@Carlo_R. Yet true. WTF => Whiskey Tango Foxtrot (phonetic alphabet used in the military) => What The Fuck?

Whiskey Tango by itself means "white trash."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus okay. So it looks like the recovery IS broken

probably, flashing stock images over the CWM is what did it for me

2:23 AM

Same here.

Probably partly overwrote CWM.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But anyway, install CWM if you think you want it. I'm sure it won't hurt you.

Because the update 4.1.2 I flashed was only a partial ROM, obviously.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But then this might happen again.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, I am flashing factory images

What are you going to do on your S?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus nothing

phone still works fine

2:24 AM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You didn't flash just the OTA file?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Same here, but still...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus no, it had 2.3.6 on it, I downloaded the stock image for 4.1.2 and flashed that

Ah OK.

Then apparently recovery mode is no part of the full factory images.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and prior to 2.3.6 it's had 4.1, then CM9, then 2.3

@Cerberus surprising.

I'm not sure why that'd be the case

My good deed is done for the day. Good night.

Well, if something should go wrong, it makes sense that you want Recovery to always be there unchanged.

What is more surprising is that the update touches CWM at all.

@Robusto Night!

How noble you are!

user19161

2:26 AM

@Robusto See you in your dreams.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus On the other hand, if something has gone wrong, I want to be able to flash over the recovery.

Yes.

So that should always be possible.

Bootloader > recovery > OS > applications.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'm curious now how it was that I was able to flash the phone at all. or else, what good is the recovery.

What do you mean?

Okay, I'm flashing stock recovery!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I mean, I had some random version of android and potentially a broken recovery.

2:29 AM

Give me your blessing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yet somehow I was able to flash a stock image over top

@Cerberus I already said it'd probably be fine.

Why was it broken?

Okay.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus well, I dunno

Who says it was?

Flashing the update is what broke it for me, I believe.

I'm now booting in what the toolkit calls "flash temporary recovery mode".

That works.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

is your life improved now?

what's in your recovery mode?

besides factory reset

2:34 AM

That is some other recovery mode, I think TWRM or something.

It has all the common functions, like flashing zips and whatnot.

user image

Done.

Okay, my phone still works, that's one thing.

Now recovery mode...

Ugh.

There's the red triangle again.

So it didn't work.

user19161

@Cerberus That looks like XP!

How is that possible?

Stupid.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So the factory images do not flash the recovery

they flash the bootloader and the radio and the os

The bootloader, you think so?

That would be weird. Why?

But I suppose I will now have to flash CWM...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, I can see the batch file that issues the command

> fastboot flash bootloader bootloader-crespo-i9020xxlc2.img

But to flash a recovery you have to "fastboot flash recovery filename.img"

2:43 AM

That is what the toolkit should be doing.

How could it have failed?

I do not like this.

Okay, I'm now flashing a recovery.img file I had lying around on my PC, in a back-up folder.

Done.

Ahhh and there is recovery mode!

Phew.

Oh huh, its CWM.

Oh well, haha.

I'm happy at least that works.

I still find it odd that flashing stock recovery didn't work.

So would you just flash 4.2?

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