English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

12:00 AM

Well, even different versions of the bible will say different things.

Spare Oom

By the time I get here, the discussion is all over and it's pointless to bring it up again.

user19161

Well, I just treat these as ordinary casual conversation, not intense point for point debates.

Spare Oom

I don't think I want to debate anything anyway.

I'm not eloquent and can't explain things well.

user19161

Yeah, there's nothing left to debate. Religion has been debated for over 9000 years.

Spare Oom

You mean 6000? ;)

user19161

12:03 AM

That will be OVER 6000.

Spare Oom

I've discovered that I don't know much of anything, including what I think I know, you know?

It's very discomforting.

user19161

The same applies to all of us.

user19161

I laugh when I hear some politicians speak sometimes. The rubbish that comes out from their mouth.

Spare Oom

The TED video @tchrist put up accents that feeling if unease to me.

I haven't been listening to the politicians this year.

user19161

If I were there to debate with them, they might be so ashamed they can't even step down.

Spare Oom

12:09 AM

But sometimes I can't help hearing a bit. I get political phone calls and hang up but not always fast enough.

@JasperLoy What do you mean?

tchrist

@SpareOom Eh?

More cheetos:

user19161

@SpareOom Er, I won't give examples here. But I feel great distress when I hear them talk about some things in ways that could traumatize certain groups. Even if I wrote to the press, my letter would be censored.

Spare Oom

@tchrist That there is always more that I don't understand all the time instead of less as I get older makes me uneasy.

user19161

@tchrist She has great legs. Mmm.

tchrist

We become more acquainted with our ignorance as we age. Teenagers are especially resilient to this.

Spare Oom

12:12 AM

You mean that they think they know everything?

tchrist

Yes, that’s what I mean. BTW, I read that "the video put up accents", and was wondering why the accents made you uneasy.

user19161

@tchrist For me, I think that adults think they are wiser than the kids, but this is not necessarily the case.

Spare Oom

Sorry, I think I meant accentuates.

tchrist

Depends.

No, you said it fine. I just misparsed.

user19161

I find that many people grow more stupid as they age because they learn all the wrong things from this sick world. So what seems wisdom really is folly.

Spare Oom

12:13 AM

@JasperLoy It depends on the adult. I can't say I've increased in wisdom for a number of years.

That too.

It's easier in some ways not to learn and go about one's merry way, ignorant.

What you don't know can't hurt you, so to speak, though I know that's not accurate of course.

Peter PAD

Hello everyone

Spare Oom

Hello.

user19161

@PeterPAD Hi! What a picture.

user19161

I hope nobody complains.

user19161

Some people don't like to see such things.

Peter PAD

12:18 AM

I like that picture, a baby

I will change it soon

sorry everyone

user19161

Once someone got suspended for a pic showing cleavage.

user19161

Personally I am fine with all things, but not everyone is like me.

Spare Oom

Does the site censor inappropriate images? If they do and it's not censored, then what's the problem?

user19161

@SpareOom Well, it's up to the SE staff really.

tchrist

I hope my cheetos-girl wasn’t offensive.

Spare Oom

12:20 AM

The picture is so small, someone would have to try to see it to be offended.

user19161

It's their site so they can do what they want.

tchrist

There are things on Wikipedia that will autobox into offensive things.

user19161

And even if one gets suspended, so what?

Spare Oom

@tchrist Yeah, orange is offensive to me. What was supposed to be offensive in the Cheetos picture?

Peter PAD

How can I change my avatar?

user19161

12:21 AM

Breaking "rules" does not imply one is "wrong".

user19161

@PeterPAD How did you put it up in the first place?

tchrist

Nothing was supposed to be offensive, but I am sure there are people who would find the nekkid ladyflesh offensive.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Ah, but if you don't break the rules, it's easier not to be wrong.

Peter PAD

I don't remember it. When I registered to this site, it take from my gavatar

Spare Oom

@tchrist Was there any?

tchrist

12:22 AM

Leggies.

user19161

@SpareOom I can tell you I am "wrong" in many ways from the things I do according to the society I live in. I hope I can get out of it soon.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Get out of the society?

tchrist

I hope you get out the good way, not the bad way.

user19161

@SpareOom Live in another country.

Spare Oom

@tchrist They're in the dark, so they're hard to notice.

@JasperLoy Singapore, right?

user19161

12:24 AM

@tchrist There is no bad way to get out other than death.

user19161

All other ways are good!

tchrist

That is exactly what I meant.

user19161

Don't worry, I won't kill myself.

tchrist

There are other ways to die.

Peter PAD

@.@ I don't understand at all

Spare Oom

12:26 AM

@tchrist Yeah, me too. What?

user19161

@tchrist Ah, don't worry, I don't take drugs so they can't hang me.

tchrist

I always think of the rôle Linda Hunt played in A Year of Living Dangerously when I think of you, Jasper.

And worry.

user19161

I don't get myself into conflict with people, but people always seem to find trouble with me.

user19161

I am talking about my real life, not SE.

user19161

So, often I think, is it because of some character flaw I possess?

Spare Oom

12:28 AM

@JasperLoy I haven't read consistently here. Do you get in trouble a lot?

tchrist

Seldom.

user19161

@SpareOom In several areas of my life and at several times, in a way yes. Because I see things too differently from others.

Spare Oom

But you don't get in trouble here in SE though?

user19161

No trouble here.

user19161

What trouble can there be on a site? =)

user19161

12:32 AM

@PeterPAD Go to gravatar.com.

tchrist

There are ways.

Spare Oom

I guess i mean being banned or having a time-out, flagged a bunch, or something like that.

user19161

@SpareOom Ah, those are small things. They don't really mean anything.

tchrist

See how wise he is?

Spare Oom

Who, Jasper?

tchrist

12:35 AM

Aye.

Spare Oom

Well, you could use the site for purposed for which it's not intended (criminally). That would be bad.

Peter PAD

I am Gavatar and change it, but how it work

user19161

@PeterPAD Have you clicked on "confirm" as the final step and then logged out?

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy What's an example of something that does mean something?

user19161

@SpareOom Well, those are my secrets! =)

Spare Oom

12:38 AM

Ok.

user19161

I have been through pretty intense shit.

tchrist

►

Here, a touch of QI levity to lighten your load.

Peter PAD

Well, I've just changed my avatar. Anyone see it?

Spare Oom

@PeterPAD It's the same.

user19161

@PeterPAD Ah OK, that pic should be fine for all.

user19161

12:40 AM

@SpareOom Refresh browser.

Spare Oom

@tchrist Always appreciated. I couldn't sleep last night and got up to watch a couple episodes.

tchrist

You have to reload to see a new picky.

Spare Oom

Oh, but if I like the picky. ;)

user19161

Link is to linky as pic is to picky, interesting.

user19161

I find linky to have a very girly tone.

user19161

12:41 AM

Sometimes I use linky purposely to have that tone, just for fun.

tchrist

M..ax says linky.

I thinky.

user19161

Oh, strange.

tchrist

Ah he does, but he may have picked it up from Cerb, which might explain it.

Peter PAD

thanks @JasperLoy

tchrist

And you have remarked upon this before.

Peter PAD

12:43 AM

Anyone known, I am very bad in english

user19161

@PeterPAD You must be Christian?

Peter PAD

Yup, I'm ma Christian

tchrist

No, I think he’s Peter.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Or sarcastic.

Peter PAD

I follow Roman Catholic

user19161

12:44 AM

@PeterPAD OK, Catholic is Christian.

Peter PAD

yup, I see

I'm come from Vietnam. Where're u come from?

tchrist

Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt.

user19161

Me? Secret!

tchrist

hu u?

user19161

@PeterPAD Your English is pretty good then.

user19161

12:46 AM

But I have talked with some Vietnamese and I could not understand them.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus Oh, I meant to apologize for leaving suddenly just when you were teaching me something about Latin. The server quit. What lousy timing.

user19161

@peter How is your spoken English?

Peter PAD

I want to speak in english, but noone can understand me :(

tchrist

Sep 21 at 21:42, by Will Hunting

@ЯegDwight Linky sounds pretty gay.

Sep 17 at 19:17, by ЯegDwight

@WillHunting linky or it didn't happen.

Peter PAD

I'm trying to learn but it's not easy

user19161

12:47 AM

I have to listen very carefully and think to understand Vietnamese when they speak English.

tchrist

Apr 19 at 22:30, by Jasper Loy

@Cerberus Why would anyone call a link a linky?

Mar 15 at 23:19, by Will Hunting

And also 1 min to figure out what linky means.

Jun 8 at 20:06, by Jasper Loy

@Cerberus Wow, you love to add y to words, first it was linky, now it is indeedy.

user19161

Yeah, linky is listed on Urban D though.

tchrist

No picky, eh?

Peter PAD

Where're u from, @JasperLoy?

user19161

@PeterPAD Secret! Secret!

tchrist

12:49 AM

laments u

Apr 19 at 22:31, by Jasper Loy

@RegDwightѬſ道 I would imagine only girls trying to sound cute would say linky.

user19161

I will reveal myself only to those who believe. Joke, no offense.

tchrist

4 mins ago, by tchrist

Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt.

Peter PAD

So, can you speak english, well?

Spare Oom

@tchrist Yes, indeedy sounds fine to me.

tchrist

Sep 3 at 15:24, by tchrist

@Robusto Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt. ―St Jerome, In Ecclestiasten Commentarius, I

user19161

12:50 AM

@PeterPAD Yup.

tchrist

Yes indeedy, well and truly.

fingerflips through the OED

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Right over my head, unless it has something to revealing yourself.

Peter PAD

I want learn speaking, but I find no one. Because, I lived in Vietnam, everyone don't want talking in english

user19161

@SpareOom I mean some religious folks might get offended.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy I guess you could call me a religious fool.

But I'm not offended.

tchrist

12:53 AM

> 2. In the 15th cent., if not earlier, certain monosyllabic adjs. were extended by means of this suffix, app. with the design of giving them a more adjectival appearance, e.g. hugy f. huge, leany f. lean. The majority of such words arose in the 16th and 17th cent.; examples are: bleaky, chilly, cooly, dusky, fainty, haughty, hoary, lanky, paly adj.1, plumpy, slighty, slippery, stouty, swarty, thicky, vasty.

user19161

@SpareOom Making light-hearted comments about religious things is not the same as making offensive remarks, but some equate the two.

tchrist

> ... In this application the suffix has not infrequently come to express much the same notion as -ish; this is particularly so with colour-epithets, as blacky, yellowy, and esp. when these are used quasi-advb., as greeny-blue, bluey-green, reddy-brown.

Peter PAD

What's your religion?

tchrist

Well, linky has two syllables.

Spare Oom

Or a religious folk too

tchrist

12:53 AM

Maybe it is like that.

user19161

@PeterPAD None officially. I read about them all unofficially.

tchrist

I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

> 4. From the early years of the 19th cent. the suffix has been used still more freely in nonce-words designed to connote such characteristics of a person or thing as call for condemnation, ridicule, or contempt; hence such adjs. as beery, catty, churchy, jumpy, newspapery, piggy, tinny.

That doesn’t explain slinkies.

Spare Oom

@PeterPAD Non-denominational, fundamental, evangelical Christian, though I'm not very good at the evangelical part, and recently confused.

user19161

If you have to associate me with one religion, it would be Theravada Buddhism though.

user19161

@SpareOom What is "fundamental"?

Peter PAD

12:56 AM

I must look up some words on my dictionary, you said so many new words for me :)

user19161

@PeterPAD Such as?

Spare Oom

Literal interpretation of the Bible. People think it means other things though.

tchrist

> There were various new formations in late or med.L., in Romanic, or in individual Romance languages; examples are Romanic *libraría library, *poesía (for poesis) poesy, OF. navie navy. This suffix has never been in English a prolific formative, but from time to time new coinages have been made, e.g. in the 14th cent. beggerie beggary and in the 16th coopery (= cooper’s work or ware), f. beggar and cooper, both doubtless furthered by the prevalence of the suffix -ery.

user19161

@SpareOom Ah, I guess maybe the same applies to fundamental Muslim.

Peter PAD

@JasperLoy denominational, evangelical

user19161

12:58 AM

@PeterPAD Well, denominations are Methodist, Anglican, etc.

tchrist

Found it.

Of course it is the sixth -y suffix.

user19161

@PeterPAD Evangelical means spreading the religion.

Spare Oom

@PeterPAD Those terms are difficult to understand even for me and I grew up with them.

tchrist

-y suffix6, -ie

(also 7-8 -ee, 7- -ey), used to form pet names and familiar diminutives. The forms -y and -ie are now almost equally common in proper names as such, but in a few instances one or other spelling is preferred, as Annie, Betty, Sally (rather than Anny, Bettie, Sallie); in the transferred applications of these, as jemmy, tommy, dicky, and the like, -y prevails; in general hypocoristic forms -ie is the favourite spelling after Scottish usage, as dearie, mousie. The use of -ey is subject to the same rules as for -y suffix1.

user19161

Go tell it, tell it on the mountain, over the hills and everywhere

Peter PAD

12:59 AM

@SpareOom thanks, I try understanding them

Spare Oom

@tchrist Diminutive ending?

Peter PAD

@JasperLoy thanks

Cerberus

@SpareOom No need! I don't even remember the alleged incident. Like, at all.

I'm also drunk.

tchrist

The first known instance of the application of the suffix to a common noun is laddie which appears in 1546 in the form laddy, used by John Bale; but there is no evidence until the 18th century of the generalization of -y for pet diminutives. Early instances are dummie (1595), grannie (1663), dearie (1681), mousie (1693, Sc.); laddie, lassie, and sweetie were used by Allan Ramsay, and these, with Burn’s birdie and mousie, helped to popularize such formations in English generally; hence the appearance in the late 18th and early 19th century of cooky, doggie, froggy, mannie, slavey.

user19161

@Cerberus Great! Now you will tell us all your secrets! Hehe.

tchrist

1:00 AM

See full next for nighty.

So it is an affective suffix: linky.

Cerberus

Well, what secrets do I have?

Hey, I didn't invent linky, nor indeedy.

user19161

Like once you were drunk and told us about your pub adventures eh?

tchrist

You know the secret of perplexing Jasper.

Spare Oom

@tchrist Is the -ie the Scottish version? My Scottish background grandmother was Grammie to us. Great grandmother was Grannie.

Cerberus

My pub adventures? Not much going on there!

user19161

1:01 AM

Any new dates @cerb?

Cerberus

Nope.

I did run into old dates.

Spare Oom

@tchrist text*?

tchrist

Any figs?

Cerberus

No fig leaves.

user19161

@Cerberus Hmm, I am sure you will find someone great soon.

tchrist

1:02 AM

The earliest recorded instances of the use of such proper names as appellatives are Scottish and belong to the beginning of the 16th century: viz. Lowrie (f. Lowrens Laurence) used for ‘fox’; Katy and Kitty (f. Katherine), with the meaning ‘lass, wench’, tending to a specifically depreciatory sense, ‘wanton, loose woman’,
which senses belong also to the 18th century Molly and Nanny (as in nanny-house brothel); a few female names, viz. Molly and (dialectally) Peggy, have been used to designate an effeminate type of man.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy You probably need to more than I!

user19161

@Cerberus Nah, romance is the last thing on my list!

Spare Oom

Diminutive me: Oomy.

Cerberus

@tchrist I'm sure shortened nicknames are as old as the world!

@JasperLoy Good.

user19161

@Cerberus I even asked a question about it!

tchrist

1:04 AM

@Cerberus But using -y or -ie may not be. I don’t know.

user19161

I still don't know why John can become Jack.

tchrist

Oh Dutch!

The formation was greatly extended in Scottish and English use; whence Annie, Billy, Carrie (f. Caroline), Charlie or Charley, Fanny (f. Frances), Jacky, Jenny, Jimmy, Johnny, Nanny, Nellie (f. Ellen), Patty, Reggie (f. Reginald), Tommy, Willie.
Many female names have corresponding forms in Du. names with the suffix -je, as in huisje little house, f. huis house sb.1; e.g. Betty, Elsie, Hetty, Katy, Lottie, Matty, Sally correspond to Du. Betje, Elsje, Jetje, Kaatje, Lotje, Matje, Sellie; but there is no evidence of historical contact.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus Is Oomy an affectionate word for uncle or do you have that diminutive ending?

tchrist

He seems to spell it differently.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Oh?

Spare Oom

1:05 AM

Well, I'm not really his uncle anyway.

Cerberus

@tchrist Right, could be.

user19161

15

Q: Changes in English names of people

Why is Robert called Bob and John called Jack sometimes? What is the history of or reason for this practice in changing the English names of people?

names

Cerberus

@tchrist There is also -ke(n).

Spare Oom

But I wouldn't be very offended.

Cerberus

@SpareOom With oom, it would be oompje, the regular diminutive. Btw. we never use -y, always -ie, if at all.

tchrist

1:08 AM

English has lost its/our eams.

† eme. Obs. exc. dial. Forms: 1-3 éam, (2 eom), 2-5 em, (3 æem, æm, heam, he(e)m), 4-5 eem(e, 4-6 eme, Sc. eym(e, (5 emme, yem), 4-7 eam(e, 8 dial. eem, 9 Sc. eme, north. dial. eam.

Etymology: Com. WGer.: OE. éam = OFris. êm (MDutch oem, Dutch oom), OHG. ôheim (MHG. ôheim, œheim, -hein, mod.Ger. oheim, ohm); if the word existed in OTeut. the type would be *auhaimo-z; presumed to be a compound or derivative of *awo-z = L. avus grandfather (of which the L. avunculus, uncle, is a diminutive). It is believed that the original sense of the WGer. word was ‘mother’s brother’ (cf. L. avunculus); …

It means/meant “maternal uncle”.

Does Dutch have two different words for the two kinds of uncles?

Cerberus

@tchrist Nope.

It's funny that it was ôheim once.

tchrist

Cuz?

Cerberus

Modern German oheim?

Never heard of that. It sounds like "home".

German heim = home.

tchrist

Right.

Maybe German still has ohm?

Cerberus

Did you know that the cousin/nephew thing works differently?

tchrist

1:12 AM

What do you mean?

Cerberus

@tchrist "mod.Ger. oheim, ohm"

tchrist

cousin german?

Cerberus

@tchrist We only have neef (nephew) and nicht (niece), but no cousins.

So a neef can be a nephew or a male cousin.

tchrist

None?

Odd.

What's the plural?

Cerberus

Yeah, well, your sexless cousins are what's odd to us!

@tchrist Neven.

And nichten.

tchrist

1:14 AM

Good, I was hoping so.

Cerberus

And nicht is also faggot in the American sense.

tchrist

Sounds like nelly.

Cerberus

@tchrist Y?

tchrist

I wanted to see if f > v.

Cerberus

Of course.

tchrist

1:15 AM

Sounds better that way.

Cerberus

Well, it could just as well have been -ff-, but only with short vowels.

But we don't have many short stems on -f.

Mainly verbs.

tchrist

But more than one cough do not a coven make. Lamentably.

Cerberus

Ik bef, wij beffen.

Heh.

Spare Oom

►

This program was great.

Cerberus

(By the way, don't look up the verb beffen...)

tchrist

1:19 AM

biff? boff? boink?

Cerberus

Perform cunnilingus (vulgar).

@SpareOom Nice.

But basilisk, really?

tchrist

The said cock, oh my!

You just don’t get by with that one in Merika.

Cerberus

You, like us, suffer from your Calvinist heritage.

On behalf of the Dutch people, I apologise for the nuisance our religion has caused you.

@tchrist Oh, that cock. I hear it now.

I would have said "part chicken, part lizard".

I didn't know any of the other words.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus But I didn't know I suffered until recently.

Cerberus

Now you know.

We still have shops closed on Sundays in most cities.

Spare Oom

1:28 AM

They used to have a section on the program that had long explanations of the derivatin of a word, which was an excuse for a shaggy dog story.

Cerberus

Oh...

Shaggy dogs...

Spare Oom

I think they made them up on the spur of the moment too.

Cerberus

Nice.

Spare Oom

Frank Muir

Frank Herbert Muir (5 February 1920 – 2 January 1998) was an English comedy writer, radio and television personality, and raconteur. His writing and performing partnership with Denis Norden endured for most of their careers. Together they wrote BBC radio's Take It From Here for over 10 years, and then appeared on BBC radio quizzes My Word! and My Music for another 35. Muir became Assistant Head of Light Entertainment at the BBC in the 1960s, and was then London Weekend Television's founding Head of Entertainment. His many writing credits include editorship of The Oxford Book of Humoro...

Cerberus

Great.

tchrist

1:44 AM

Martha is right:

0

Q: What's a word for somebody who you've never met?

I'm trying to think of a word for somebody I've never met, but who has influenced me. Like Steve Jobs, I've never met him, but he continues to teach me. He's like an invisible hand to me. An unmet teacher. I can't nail the word down!