English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-08-04 (page 8 of 8)

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10:15 PM

5

Q: Why do "catsup" and "ketchup" mean the same thing?

I do not often come across the word catsup, but I do see it every once in a while, and I know it means ketchup. What I don't know is why they both came to be words for the same thing (though ketchup is much more popular). Dictionary.com says catsup was invented later as an anglicization, but ev...

etymology word-usage

Anyone know why this was downvoted (once)?

Can I change it in some way?

I asked in a comment, but that has understandably gone unnoticed.

user19161

@drm65 We can't know since we are not the downvoter.

Wasn't me.

@JasperLoy Did I know that?

:-)

But still, can you give me a pointer?

I'd like to know if I can change it.

It could be that you're asking "why does this anglicization mean a word it was intended to mean"

Ah - I didn't think of that.

10:18 PM

Just a thought -- I don't know for sure

I can't think how else to ask it, though

user19161

@drm Anyway, if I were you I would have checked the dictionary first.

user19161

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/catsup?q=catsup

user19161

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/ketchup#ketchup__3

I already know the dictionary on those words

I wanted to know why both words coexisted

They didn't seem to be variant spellings, since they are pronounced differently

10:20 PM

I pronounce them the same

user19161

In fact I don't see catsup here as we use mostly BrE.

And I'm in the US and only see ketchup

@simchona So why do you pronounce catsup?

user19161

So catsup is really rare.

If you only see ketchup?

@JasperLoy Kinda

10:21 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 I keep trying to parse this, and can't. Sztár is Hungarian for film-star, and is obviously a borrowing from English. Sztárt just adds the objective case marker -t. Is there a joke whooshing above my head here, or what?

@drm65 Because just because its not on the bottles doesn't mean I don't know it exists

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Marthaª Oh my.

user19161

In fact when I first saw it I thought it was a misspelling.

@JasperLoy I read it in a book, and also thought it was misspelled

user19161

On another note, downvotes here are too common to worry about. Don't lose sleep over it. sleep>rep

10:23 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 ...?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I am trying to find the giantest whoosh, any pointers?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 what's a whoosh?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

That's not a pointer, but thanks nonetheless.

@simchona The first pronunciation is "CAT-sup".

@drm65 Just because I pronounce it differently doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just different.

10:24 PM

// feels left out. Sniff.

user19161

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/whoosh_1?q=whoosh

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Martha

user19161

@Marthaª tissue for you

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's kinda telling that Hungarians try to parse every nonsense neologism as an actual word from their language.

user19161

@drm The only reason I can think of is that you used ketch on.

10:26 PM

Ok, just to clarify (and to kill the joke completely), you were just using sztárt as a Hungarian-sounding misspelling of start?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Marthaª Joke killed successfully, have a medal.

Now try level two.

Is it a gold medal? Does it contain chocolate?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

These are only two of the questions you will face in level two.

Are chocolate coins in a gold or silver coin-imprinted wrapper common in your countries?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yes.

All of them.

10:28 PM

I see.

user19161

@drm A plus one for you, don't cry.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Oh you found your contacts?

And unwrapped large chocolate letters?

@Cerberus You usually have to go to an import-type store or Trader Joe's, but they are certainly not unheard-of. They tend to pop up around Christmas.

@Marthaª Ah, OK. So not very common.

10:29 PM

@Cerberus Letters? Never seen those.

user image

Mmm... chocolate...

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Ist da Lebkuchen drin?

Dammit, my office is defective. It contains no chocolate.

@Marthaª Return it.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10:30 PM

@Marthaª An easy fix, if there has ever been one.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Nein, nur Chocolat!

@simchona Hmm, there's a thought.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Den Film mit Johnny Depp???

user19161

I like chocolate and letters, but not chocolate letters.

Schokolade.

Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut.

10:32 PM

@simchona: How is your answer on the several question different from mine, except that you promoted the second entry in the reference I gave to the #1 spot (which post it should not hold, it being archaic and all)?

@JasperLoy I cannot parse this. It sounds like you said you don't like a particular type of chocolate, which obviously makes no sense, since clearly, all chocolate is lovable.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus So I see only A's in that picture. Are there also N's and S's to spell ANANAS?

@Robusto We posted at the same time. Please don't think I plagiarized.

@JasperLoy You chance your avatar too often! And it has a similar shape and colout to Sim's: you guys are confusing me!

@RegDwightѬſ道 A's? I see W's, but no A's.

10:33 PM

@simchona But it is erroneous to list the second entry as the first.

user19161

@Marthaª Hmm, I think I meant that chocolate in the shape of letters is not very easy to eat and doesn't look nice in the picture.

@Robusto This is what you choose to pick on? It's how the markup automatically formatted the quote.

user19161

@Cerberus But how does that look like Sim's?

@RegDwightѬſ道 Do you need advice regarding elementary schools in your neighbourhood? If you can't read A's, you won't be able to Google one yourself.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Marthaª That makes no sense. There is no W in ANANAS.

10:34 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 WAHHHNANAS

@simchona — I'm picking on something? No. But you don't have to be a slave to markdown (not markup).

@JasperLoy Grey with a bluish hue, a light-brownish patch in it, and some dark patches.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Just because the Dutch only have the one word doesn't mean they only have those three letters.

@Robusto I can't tell if you're mad at me for plagiarizing (which I didn't), or because my definition got misnumbered

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@simchona It's not on the chart.

Aug 1 at 20:25, by aedia

user image

@Marthaª Look, the French have like totally more than one word, and even they don't have W's!

user19161

10:37 PM

@Cerberus Oh dear, then many things in the world will look the same. Are you colour blind by the way?

@JasperLoy No.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Ok, so maybe they're really strange upside-down M's.

Point is, they're not A's.

@JasperLoy Of course I can see the difference, but from the corner of an eye they look quite similar.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Marthaª AMAMAS!

AMAMAS and APAPAS.

user19161

@Cerberus OK, hmm. I think I'll see it as one is a kitten while the other is a human. They're quite distinct!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10:38 PM

Now everything makes sense, thanks to Martha!

Isn't it papayas, though?

I'm also not...Taylor Lautner

@JasperLoy I keep forgetting that Sim's is a kitten, because I can only see that when I look at the big picture.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Marthaª Now, now. Papayas and mamayas is obviously gibberish.

Brb

(Papaya sounds like papája "his/her father". My father always makes that joke if the name of the fruit comes up.)

10:40 PM

@Robusto So is there something you want me to do to my answer?

user19161

@Cerberus Ah, it's very important to see the big picture, here and in life.

@JasperLoy But not always easy.

user19161

Here, the small picture is on the left, the medium picture is on the right, and the big picture is behind. In life, you need to look harder to find them.

@simchona — If you don't see that there's anything to do to your answer, then do nothing. And there's no need to be defensive: I'm not "mad" at you about anything.

Anyway, dinner.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Marthaª If I read that in Spanish, it sounds like папаха

user19161

10:43 PM

@Robusto You're not mad, you're insane.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

user image

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Looks like you.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

No, that's a picture of random dude wearing a papaya.

user19161

The banana in the papaya in the iguana in the zenana is in Panama.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It might sound or even smell like me, but it sure doesn't look anything similar.

user19161

10:46 PM

I composed the above sentence a decade ago. I'm very proud of it.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I pre-compose all my sentences. This one I wrote on November 23rd, 1991.

@RegDwightѬſ道 How very forward thinking of you

RegDwight Ѭſ道

January 16th 1984 says "yes".

user19161

Love is not about possession; it is about obsession. (My friend and I)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

What if one has an obsession with possession?

user19161

10:49 PM

And once we were tired, we started talking loudly and people noticed, so we said: Losing inhibition; gaining exhibition.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Must resist urge to post picture of Borat.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's not love either. Love is patient; love is kind Corinthians

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JasperLoy And God killed all humans but Noah. Elsewhere.

user19161

True.

user19161

This friend of mine is the one who has two kids by accident, so now you know I never lie.

user19161

10:52 PM

Well, almost never.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

She accidentally a child?

Twice?

user19161

He actually, unplanned.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well, once is an accident...

user19161

Married of course.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Hmm, seeing how everyone's asleep, perhaps I should follow suit.

user19161

10:54 PM

Good idea/night.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yeah, before they wake up...

Night all sleepers!

And Jasper.

Night!

@RegDwightѬſ道 Good night! (This is your obligatory morning-ping-about-goodbyes-the-night-before.)

user19161

@Marthaª Goodnight, not goodbye. The latter has a scary meaning if you go to sleep.

@JasperLoy Not really. "Good night" is a type of goodbye, just like both "hello" and "good morning" are types of greetings.

But anyway: I have to go now, too. See y'all later.

11:00 PM

Is this an answer?

0

A: I can run faster than _____. (1) him (2) he?

I can run faster than him I can run faster than he can I can run faster than can he I personally find myself "natural" to use any of them maybe because that was what I learnt in my English class. But for long sentences with similar comparisons (I can not think up an example right now), a solut...

Bye Martha!

user19161

@simchona third one is not right.

@JasperLoy This user really tries to answer...but half of them aren't answers (I've flagged a lot of them)

@JasperLoy I think the third one is actually ok, although dated

user19161

@simchona You can also leave a comment pointing out the error instead of wasting your rep by downvoting.

@JasperLoy I don't downvote. I just flag if necessary.

user19161

11:03 PM

@simchona That's new. Well, I don't read much literature. Dated as in like Charles Dickens?

@JasperLoy I think so--I'll try to do an ngram

Actually, not finding it. Maybe I'm wrong. My bad

user19161

@cerb What do you think of my masterpiece banana sentence above?

books.google.com/…

user19161

The banana in the papaya in the iguana in the zenana is in Panama.

user19161

@simchona I see. The font makes the book look like it will crumble any time.

11:07 PM

@JasperLoy Masterful.

@JasperLoy Which is probably why it sounds...antiquated

user19161

sips tea

Have you a monocle?

user19161

@simchona No if you are asking me, and I had to look that up.

user19161

pours tea for Cerberus, Aedia, Simchona

11:11 PM

Thank you my good sir

Gracias!

Must be careful with this on the bus.

Huh?

0

Q: Is there a word or term other than ‘exemplar’ for the educational cards used to teach English?

Is there a word or term other than ‘exemplar’ for the educational cards used in primary classrooms to teach English? These are the, “’A’ is for ‘Apple’” or the cards which show how to write a letterform which tended to line the walls of some classrooms.

single-word-requests terminology

How's the afternoon (or whatever time of day it is) going?

My early afternoon is great

user19161

@simchona What about it? Examplar is not in my dictionary.

11:15 PM

@JasperLoy I don't know why he's asking this then...

user19161

@simchona Do you know the word examplar?

Exemplar!

user19161

Right!

Not example r. Even though it is an example.

user19161

And there is also exemplify.

11:18 PM

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exemplar

user19161

@SpareOom Hello, yes I realised I misspelled it.

I asked a follow up comment

user19161

@simchona It's actually a noun, not an adjective.

@JasperLoy Whoops. well....

The only thing I can even think of is model.

user19161

11:24 PM

But model doesn't sound right.

I always thought they were posters

user19161

Maybe the elementary school teachers will know...

I've no idea what the cards are called. That'd be like, the name of the handwriting system or something.

user19161

In fact I only just learned of exemplar.

I think we had posters, laminated ones, but I suppose the OP had cards?

11:25 PM

@aediaλ But he said they were posted

user19161

Posters describe the medium, not the content.

I think we also had tracing sheets.

primaryconcepts.com/phonawareness/A-Apple-Poster.asp

He said they were put up around the classroom but I guess I didn't take that to mean that the letters were not separated.

@aediaλ They could be. I'm still searching.

11:28 PM

@JasperLoy I grew up with catsup as opposed to ketchup, but I've seen the light.

Oh, I remember. Sheets to trace for the letters, and inflatable characters for every letter. Frightening things really. I don't know why people do that to children.

user19161

@SpareOom Hmm OK but since catsup is not exactly the old version, that doesn't reveal anything about your age!

user19161

@aediaλ You make it sound more frightening than they are!

@JasperLoy Give me time to ketchup with the transcript, will ya? Y'all have been talking while I've been gone.

They really were scary little letter-people! And the vowels were the only girls, so they were outnumbered. Ugh. This seems to have deeply impacted my psyche.

user19161

11:33 PM

5 girls and 21 boys, not a very healthy class.

user19161

I think all schools should be co-ed BTW.

@SpareOom I... I... My brain autocorrected that just now when I saw it. Terrible, you are.

@Jasper Most schools here are co-ed. Are they not, there?

user19161

@aediaλ My primary school and secondary school (up to 16) were single-sex. Most are co-ed I guess.

hi @Vitaly

user19161

Hello @vit! You look full of vitality!

user19161

11:38 PM

You must have been taking vitamins.

Hi.

Really guys?

0

Q: What does "When you see it, you'll shit brix" mean?

Well, firstly execuse me for that word, but it's just part of my question (and I think that's important part). I would like to know what does When you see it, you'll shit brix I'm just not sure, what does that last part mean. You can see context here

meaning meaning-in-context

user19161

@simchona dup, i've seen this. let me find it.

user19161

@simchona sorry not dup, just a related question.

user19161

5

Q: Future tense usage: "When you see it ..."

I wonder why the phrase is "When you see it you will shit brix," and not "When you will see it you will shit brix." Is the version with two will incorrect? What grammar rule says that you should not use will see in the above phrase?

user19161

11:41 PM

I made some interesting comment on user3444 answer.

i wish the question could be deleted.

user19161

@simchona Why?

@JasperLoy It...rankles me

user19161

@simchona I had to look up rankle. Anyway I am still not sure what the sentence means.

user19161

I think this one will attract a huge number of views, as does anything asterisked.

11:52 PM

I asked him to put the context in the question. I can't see the site--firewall

Well, that was interesting.

user19161

@simchona firewall?

at work

"adult/mature humor"

user19161

That must be a sad place to work.

lol

user19161

I see a picture of Obama laughing on that site. They can't censor Obama!

11:57 PM

He sent the image as a jpg. I saw it

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