English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitΘδς

7:00 PM

@JasperLoy thwack

user19161

Yay!

user19161

@sim I hope you are not mad at me, I really didn't know...

simchona

@JasperLoy No, no -- I know you didn't mean to offend anyone.

KitΘδς

Hey, stylesheet people! How do you override the style for one stupid row, or can this not be done?

Cerberus

tries to be invisible in the non-programmers corner

RegDwight Ѭſ道

7:05 PM

1

A: Why do "able" and "haste" have long a's?

The first rule of English is that there are very few rules that are always kept. English is a mongrel language with conflicting conventions of pronunciation. The best one can do is attempt to be consistent. And acknowledging that as a living language English will always be inconsistent. Quel d...

simchona

@Cerberus hands you a treat

RegDwight Ѭſ道

If you're going to use quel dommage, you better not misspell it.

simchona

@RegDwightѬſ道 Because they can.

Cerberus

@simchona Thank you! woof

@RegDwightѬſ道 That is a bit stupid, yes.

simchona

@RegDwightѬſ道 To badd.

user19161

7:06 PM

Cerberus gives away his hiding place just for a bone.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@simchona I no, rite?

Alain Pannetier

@KitΘδς Can you give it a specific id?

simchona

@RegDwightѬſ道 Y wood wee knead speeling?

Cerberus

@JasperLoy I happen to be easy.

Oh, and who invented eggplants? Why do they take an eternity to fry?

KitΘδς

@RegDwightѬſ道 I fixed it. I shouldn't have bothered though.

@Cerberus Sorry. My fault!

Cerberus

7:08 PM

grrrr

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@simchona B-cos LMAO.

simchona

@RegDwightѬſ道 OMG yes

KitΘδς

@AlainPannetier Yes. I was just hoping I could stick an "align" in there without having to make another class.

Cerberus

@KitΘδς Can't you just take care of them, then? This waiting is no fun.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Because frying usually involves heat or fire or some such, and those concepts are unknown to speakers of the language where ananas is the only word.

simchona

7:09 PM

@KitΘδς She means you, @Alain

KitΘδς

@Cerberus Well, I've filled out the 134-6-B, but it turns out I needed the EF345-X.

simchona

@KitΘδς Those godly bureaucrats.

KitΘδς

@simchona Sorry! My fault again!

simchona

@KitΘδς It happens. Like when @Jasper asked @Cerberus if there were a lot of pineapples growing nearby

KitΘδς

@Cerberus I'm sure the new gas cooker will arrive in 6-8 weeks.

Alain Pannetier

7:12 PM

@Kit If you can use only CSS3 (i.e. leave out IE6-7 compliance) you can do sth like
div#test > *:nth-child(xxx) {
color: red;
}

KitΘδς

@AlainPannetier Oh. Thanks!

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς you can embed the style directly into the tr

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 But I have put the eggplant on my desk and waited for a really long time. Shouldn't that work too?

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД I don't want to have to copy all the pieces.

Matt Ellen Д

<tr style="font-family:comicsans"></tr>

@KitΘδς all which pieces

?

Cerberus

7:14 PM

@KitΘδς Ohh... well, I appreciate your efforts in any case.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Move to Sun, then it will work.

Matt Ellen Д

oh, well, it looks like Alain came up with a good solution!

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД All the other font, etc, parts, that I'm not fiddling with.

Matt Ellen Д

@KitΘδς you only need to supply the part of the style you are changing, that's the cascading part of css!

element > inline > referenced

there are more nuances

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД Erm. I thought I tried that. Lemme see...

Cerberus

7:16 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 Good idea. I might as well shoot it to the sun.

simchona

-.- stock market took a nose dive

user19161

I think EL&U will crash soon because of all these funny symbols and characters. It will be the first and last birthday.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ananas ananas Ananas ananas ananas ananas Ananas ananas.

simchona

@Reg No.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@simchona Certainly you mean ananas.

Matt Ellen Д

7:18 PM

@simchona yeah, do you know why? I know people at work were chatting about how our company's price had sunk 70p, and that it was market wide, but I didn't hear a reason

simchona

@MattEllenД Something to do with Europe? Let me see if Motley Fool said why

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MattEllenД As long as it doesn't sink 1080p, you should be safe.

KitΘδς

@RegDwightѬſ道 thwack

Alain Pannetier

@MattEllenД Do you work in a bank?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@simchona Berlusconi speech.

simchona

7:20 PM

dailyfinance.com/market-news

Matt Ellen Д

@AlainPannetier no, just at a company that's floated on the stock exchange

I used to work in financial services, but it was no fun at all

KitΘδς

@MattEllenД FFS, I'd put it in the wrong element. Works now, thank you.

simchona

@KitΘδς I definitely translated "FFS" as something full of cuss words

ChaosGamer

What is with all the weird shapes on back of your names?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 I have no idea what this is about other than a mad rant.

Matt Ellen Д

7:22 PM

@KitΘδς Ace :D glad I can help

ChaosGamer

like Θδς

simchona

@ChaosGamer Read further back in the transcript

user19161

@ChaosGamer celebrate EL&U birthday.

user19161

No jinx this time.

KitΘδς

@ChaosGamer EL&U's birthday, Alain, χάοτικ, some other reasons we made up.

Matt Ellen Д

7:23 PM

no jinx!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JasperLoy Ananas from Ananas who get ananased by other ananas from Ananas, in turn ananas ananas from Ananas.

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy Ananas is the only word in Dutch, according to Cerberus.

ChaosGamer

..today is EL&U's b-day?

should I change mine?

KitΘδς

@ChaosGamer Well, it might be tomorrow...

user19161

@ChaosGamer You can't change your birthday!

KitΘδς

7:24 PM

@ChaosGamer If you want, but it's like getting a tattoo. You can't change it again for 30 days (after the initial editing period expires).

@JasperLoy thwack

simchona

@RegDwightѬſ道 That just makes me think of a kid going NAHNAHNAHNAHNAHNAH

user19161

Tatto removal is painful.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@simchona What doesn't?

ChaosGamer

hmmm :) I just got one in my mind. Will be back in a sec. :))

user19161

I hope Chaos does not put on a kimchi, sashimi is fine.

user19161

7:30 PM

Hello @spare. Notice anything different about the users today?

Spare Oom

Ok, @Kit and @MattEllen what's with all the funky non-English characters after your names?

@JasperLoy Hey, you changed your gravitar.

KitΘδς

7 mins ago, by KitΘδς

@ChaosGamer EL&U's birthday, Alain, χάοτικ, some other reasons we made up.

user19161

@SpareOom That was what I asked just now.

Spare Oom

So I'm behind already!

user19161

Indeed. But these silly people can't change it back till 30 days later.

JSBᾶngs

7:33 PM

why would i want to change it back? i'm quite fond of my polytonic greek circumflex

Matt Ellen Д

@SpareOom Have you not spent 2 hours reading the transcript from where you last were here? It's what I do every morning!

ChaosGamer

guys, how do you do it???

Spare Oom

I haven't thought of one I want yet. @JSBngs now your name won't type correctly.

user19161

@MattEllenД Get a life!

simchona

@ChaosGamer please don't overuse punctuation

Matt Ellen Д

7:34 PM

@JSBᾶngs I want to keep it for EL&U, but I'm gonna change SO back.

ChaosGamer

they say that only 1-9, alpa, and only hypen can be in username!

Matt Ellen Д

@JasperLoy I have a life. I spend it catching up with EL&U chat :p

user19161

@SpareOom you can just use the first three letters.

Spare Oom

@MattEllen I did that yesterday. I don't really have the extra time to do that all the time, but originally I was going to read the transcript from the beginning.

JSBᾶngs

@MattEllenД yeah, keeping the first 3 chars in the ASCII range solves typing woes

Spare Oom

7:35 PM

@MattEllen, why don't you just give me a summary, since you already read it. :)

Matt Ellen Д

@SpareOom I started. the first 100 days are easy because so few people talk

JSBᾶngs

of course, i could make the whole thing unicode and then just avoid the nuisance of people pinging me

Matt Ellen Д

it gets lengthly after that I haven't gone back yet

user19161

@JSBᾶngs unless robinhood and robusto are here.

Spare Oom

@MattEllenД Yes, i agree.

ChaosGamer

7:36 PM

..guys??

Cerberus

I remember when noöne used to talk here.

Spare Oom

I read the transcript only until March, I think.

Cerberus

I asked a question here, and I was answered by Kosmonaut three days later. That was normal.

user19161

@SpareOom From start to Mar or end to Mar?

KitΘδς

@Cerberus I miss @Kosmonaut.

Matt Ellen Д

7:37 PM

@Cerberus I thought up a question today, but Kosmonaut had already answered it :D

Cerberus

@KitΘδς So do I. sniff

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy I have to check.

ChaosGamer

come on how do you do it??

Cerberus

@MattEllenД Of course he has! He has answered everything.

simchona

@ChaosGamer Hold your horses

user19161

7:37 PM

@KitΘδς No point pinging him.

KitΘδς

@ChaosGamer Copypasta from Word or something.

Matt Ellen Д

@ChaosGamer charmap!

every windows pc has it

KitΘδς

@JasperLoy It's a shout-out to my homey.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy I'm wrong, I read Nov to February 5. Only 86 days.

ChaosGamer

guys... I already know-how, but the website says that you can't use characters other then alpha, 1-9, and hypen!

they can't update it!

idk why.

KitΘδς

7:39 PM

@ChaosGamer Then you are doing it wrong.

Matt Ellen Д

wut?

simchona

@ChaosGamer Know-how is a noun, "know how" is a verb phrase

JSBᾶngs

@ChaosGamer hint: username != display name

Cerberus

I'd like to announce that my pasta melanzane has turned out very well and that sufficiently fried eggplant is the key. It needs to be deep brown, quite close to black wherever possible.

user19161

@SpareOom I see that's what I meant, so you read forward then. Well, keep going if you want!

KitΘδς

7:40 PM

@Cerberus Did you salt it first? Do you know that trick?

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy I need to read today's and then keep up on this end too.

Cerberus

@KitΘδς I know people do it, but it always seemed too much trouble. What is it for anyway?

user19161

@SpareOom I see sort of gave up already.

KitΘδς

@Cerberus It takes the bitterness out.

user19161

@KitΘδς from what?

simchona

7:41 PM

@KitΘδς Wow. I didn't know that

Cerberus

@KitΘδς Bitterness? Well, either I can't taste that bitterness or I like it, because it isn't a problem for me?

user19161

eggplant(US)=aubergine(UK)=brinjal

KitΘδς

@Cerberus Maybe American eggplant is different from Dutch eggplant.

Cerberus

When you fry them, they acquire a slightly bitter taste, which is heaven. But is that a different kind of bitter?

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy I think I'll skip the part about the incident.

KitΘδς

7:42 PM

@Cerberus No, that's the bitterness it loses.

Cerberus

@KitΘδς I don't know... when you fry eggplant, does it become dark brown at places?

user19161

@SpareOom What incident?

simchona

Japanese eggplant is different too

KitΘδς

@Cerberus Yes.

Cerberus

But then I think it is that bitterness that I like so much! Unless your eggplants are truly different.

KitΘδς

7:43 PM

Eggplant

The eggplant, aubergine, melongene, brinjal, बेंगन in Hindi or guinea squash (Solanum melongena) is a plant of the family Solanaceae (also known as the nightshades) and genus Solanum. It bears a fruit of the same name, commonly used in cooking. As a nightshade, it is closely related to the tomato and potato and is native to India. It is a delicate perennial often cultivated as an annual. It grows 40 to 150 cm (16 to 57 in) tall, with large coarsely lobed leaves that are 10 to 20 cm (4–8 in) long and 5 to 10 cm (2–4 in) broad. Semiwild types can grow much larger...

Cerberus

Have you ever tried not salting them and noticed the difference?

KitΘδς

There are different varieties.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Nevermind.

KitΘδς

@Cerberus Yes.

I forgot that they are nightshade plants, therefore related to tomatoes.

simchona

Grilled eggplant with soy sauce is amazing

user19161

7:44 PM

@SpareOom Oh if you are referring to what you asked yesterday, I more or less told you already.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus I never bother salting them.

KitΘδς

And potatoes.

simchona

0

Q: Why is it "This is he" rather than "This is him"?

I've been told that "This is he" or "This is she" is correct, while "This is him" or "This is her" is not. For example: Caller: Hello, may I speak to Bobby Tables? Bobby: This is he. Likewise, "We are we" is correct, but "We are us" is not. On the other hand, you would say "I told hi...

dupe?

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy No, I meant a EL&U thing.

Cerberus

@SpareOom Cool, hehe.

user19161

7:45 PM

@SpareOom Ah I see, there are many incidents you see.

Cerberus

@KitΘδς OK thanks. Now at least I know why people do that.

KitΘδς

@simchona Yes.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy The one that caused the loss of @Kosmonaut

Cerberus

By the way, I had no idea we had nightshade plants in the old world! I know we didn't have peppers, tomatoes, or potatoes—but it appears we did have eggplant!

Spare Oom

@Cerberus You eat nightshade?!

simchona

7:46 PM

@KitΘδς I can't find it. We need a canonical "he vs. him"

user19161

I have only fried an egg, not a plant or an eggplant.

Cerberus

> The raw fruit can have a somewhat bitter taste, but becomes tender when cooked and develops a rich, complex flavor. Traditionally, recipes would advise the salting, rinsing and draining of the sliced fruit (known as "degorging") to soften it and to reduce the amount of fat absorbed during cooking, but mainly to remove the bitterness of the earlier cultivars. Some modern varieties - including those large, purple varieties commonly imported into western Europe - do not need this treatment.

KitΘδς

@simchona It's an "It is me."

Cerberus

@SpareOom Don't you? All those vegetables I mentioned are of the nightshade family, or whatever it's called.

simchona

3

Q: "Me" versus "I"

He was almost as bad at English as me. He was almost as bad at English as I. The first one sounds better as-is, but not when you change the second one to He was almost as bad at English as I was. Which is correct?

grammar subject object

?

Spare Oom

7:47 PM

@simchona I just say, "speaking".

simchona

@SpareOom I just stay silent and let people feel awkward.

KitΘδς

@simchona No, that's not the one I'm thinking of. @Reg would know it.

user19161

@simchona Maybe they don't feel awkward, only you? :)

KitΘδς

7

Q: Should I say "not I" or "not me"?

With the enthusiastic question of "Who wants ice-cream?" What is the more correct negative response? 1) "Not I" 2) "Not me" Neither response is a sentence. The first response of "not I" sounds stuffy, like it should be followed with an indignant sniff. The second sounds like American idiom ...

grammar pronouns

This is the one I was thinking of.

simchona

@JasperLoy Nope. I feel jusssst fiiiineee

KitΘδς

7:49 PM

I'm not sure if it's a dupe though.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

20

Q: Should I use a nominative or accusative pronoun when making comparisons (e.g. "I run faster than ___")?

Consider the sentence "I can run faster than 15 miles per hour." Its meaning is clear and to my eyes obviously grammatically correct. Now let me present some variations that have given me trouble for a long time. I am faster than 15 miles per hour. – To me this is clearly incorrect. Directly co...

word-choice grammaticality pronouns

Spare Oom

@simchona If you wantedto receive the phone call, that might not be the best way.

user19161

We can just say I run faster than he does.

simchona

Voting to close as dupe, then

KitΘδς

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's not it. It was the "It is I" versus "It is me."

Remember that argument we had about two months ago?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

7:52 PM

I have read the part where you said that.

@KitΘδς That one was entirely different.

5

Q: "It is they who lied" or "it is them who lied?"

Which is the correct usage of the third person, plural pronoun? It is they who lied. It is them who lied.

pronouns

KitΘδς

@RegDwightѬſ道 No, that other one.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Oh, I have like 35 other ones left.

The canonical question is the one about ice cream.

Spare Oom

Is there a central location where all the questions are grouped according to topic?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Um, tags?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 I am amazed at your memory. You are not human, but as wise as an owl.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

7:55 PM

Jul 25 at 14:49, by RegDwight

I can only hunt down dupes by remembering every fricking question in existence.

Spare Oom

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's not exactly what I meant.

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's what I was getting at.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@SpareOom Then mean exactly that, and we're done! :P

user19161

@fallen >_>

FallenAngelEyes

lol, hi @Jasper :P

Matt Ellen Д

@RegDwightѬſ道 I think that, in general, the canonical question is the one about icecream

Cerberus

7:57 PM

You don't seem to have much trouble with that.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Do you notice anything about the usernames today?

Cerberus

I smell burned paper, it's coming from outside. Why?

user19161

@Cerberus Better check it out. I had a high school classmate whose whole house burnt down.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@SpareOom I see. Well, that's the only way. Because unlike on math or music or even SO, where dupes of a question about New Jersey are usually about New Jersey as well, here on ELU if a question is about New Jersey, possible dupes can, and will, be about softly masticating penguins.

Spare Oom

@MrDisappointment This is a pretty long suspension!

Cerberus

7:58 PM

@JasperLoy Yeah mine burned down last year. But this is really coming form outside.

Softly Masticating!

I didn't know penguins did that.

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy Uuuh, I'm not sure. I just woke up, so I'm not entirely on the ball yet.

Michael Myers

@SpareOom Anyone who claims to be 5 is going to be suspended until they're 13. Network policy.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus And they don't. Masticate is transitive here.

Alain Pannetier

@Cerberus Were you cooking eggplants at the time by any chance? Try to remember.

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes Good time to wake up!

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…