« first day (1352 days earlier)   

12:00 AM
@Cerberus I'm shocked — shocked — that the Middle East should have more strife than any other region in the world.
room topic changed to English Language & Usage: Retro Chat Reboot (no tags)
@tchrist What is Mandarin at?
@Robusto Lots
Like your double-float precision.
12:16 AM
@tchrist Are you going to be a mentor?
@Robusto Haha I know! But in this case it actually means they use a third mark.
@Cerberus Third mark?
Not a dot or comma, but something else.
@JohanLarsson I’m not mindful enough.
The internet is full of odd things. Some of them are even on Amazon.
Dr. Wesley Muhammad
A-Team Publishing

Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad are arguably the two most important figures of recent history. They are also the two most revered religio-historical figures in the Black community of America and much of Africa. Both are popularly and officially portrayed as white-skinned men. However, Dr. Wesley Muhammad demonstrates in this work that the historical, textual and scientific evidences converge indicating that both were actually black-skinned men whose ancestors were African Semites who crossed into the Levant and Arabia several millennia ago. For the first time, a broad range of the relevant Classical Arabic/Islamic source material is brought together, demonstrating that the popular and official image of the prophet Muhammad is a secondary fabrication. Dr. Muhammad documents the bleaching of the image of both men by a later generation of Christians and Muslims who were offended by the dark appearance of their community s respective founder. This work also addresses the intra-Muslim controversy over the seeming self-contradictory position of Elijah Muhammad on the question of Prophet Muhammad s ethnicity. It is documented that Elijah Muhammad declared both that Muhammad was a black prophet and that he was a white man. Dr. Muhammad thus raises the question, Did Elijah Muhammad contradict himself? Dr. Muhammad argues that he did not and that Elijah Muhammad s two statements can be perfectly harmonized when understood in the context of the Classical Arabic/Islamic scholarly t
12:21 AM
@tchrist I'm sure there are languages that use commas!
Dutch Excel has commas.
What, no Wondermark one-boxes? Here is the link: wondermark.com/566
@tchrist what does it mean and how does it stop you?
Which I got to from poking around at the red bits on the map.
12:22 AM
And did you know that Dutch Excel cannot handle English function names, like SUM?
@JohanLarsson Too slackerish.
And vice versa. This can actually cause problems.
@Cerberus What does it want, EST?
@Cerberus Same here
@JohanLarsson Yay!
12:23 AM
can be configured on OS level though
There was a bug in the CAD program with tolerances and commas, could have led to really expensive parts
ty sir
12:26 AM
@KitFox Sir Lancelot, please meet Lady Lubalot.
@Cerberus I’ve decided I don’t understand what that means. But I’m a programmer, not a bean counter.
We programmers name our functions whate’er we will.
Language does not enter into this.
Oh sorry, I didn’t know that the porn tags were removed from the room title.
@tchrist Ooo why did you jump to the third person?
@tchrist Thankfully.
@Cerberus I thought perhaps Dutch was too self-conscious to be using an intrusive first person.
@tchrist Can you call up a cite for OED "buster" used as a generic form of address for men? I could look it up in my print OED but I can't find my magnifying glass at the moment.
@tchrist I'm not exactly sure what happens, but sometimes Excel cannot correctly operate on a spreadsheet made in another language.
@Robusto I hate that.
12:31 AM
@tchrist The Dutch are very direct and immodest!
> buster /ˈbʌstə(r)/.

Etymology: dial. var. of burster.

1. = burster (in unknown sense).

1839 New Monthly Mag. LVI. 358 ― We can··buy a two‐penny buster at a baker’s-shop.

2. slang (chiefly U.S.). a. ‘Something great’ (W.); something that ‘takes one’s breath away’; something that provokes excessive admiration or amusement. b. A roistering blade, a dashing fellow. Also used as a slang form of address, usu. friendly or slightly disrespectful; ‘mate’, fellow; old buster: an affectionate or disrespectful designation for an elderly man. c. A frolic; a spree.
Too late.
@Cerberus Yours isn’t amenable to murine snarfage.
@tchrist Thanks.
@Cerberus Is that OED too?
Oh, I see it is.
@Cerberus I am also subthused by its treatment of quotationsallruntogether.
12:33 AM
It mimics the print version, I realize, but real estate is no longer of great concern.
@tchrist I know. Probably too much work to adjust the formatting from the printed version.
Yeah, that.
The online OED now does it better.
I hate how electronic texts still use abbreviations!!
12:34 AM
Only printed dictionaries ever had an excuse.
Like for citations, ffs.
You have to click through to figure out what the real title is.
And there are so many weird abbrv8shnz.
They have lookup keys for all of these. They should therefore interpolate the lookup values.
One issue is that it is one to many, not one to one.
So you just gotta know.
I know.
Like "a.".
That’s the one I was thinking of, yes. But there are many more.
Look at citations 3 and 4 under alpha.
Who would know what those mean?
I mean, the abbreviations for the author and the work.
You know what?
I think that when the Forms section has Greek sets, I should put those in a list.
12:42 AM
Q: Where did we get "buster" as in "Look here, buster"?

RobustoAmericans, at least, have for some time used buster in speech or dialogue as a generic form of address. It has a range of tonalities, from light to affectionate to grimly confrontational. Listen, buster, you can't beat me no matter how hard you try! All right, buster, this time you're go...

If anyone can think of better tags, please feel free.
Except it isn’t really slang.
It’s informal, perhaps.
And it is only use vocatively.
Which is curious.
never heard it, sounds like a dog
Listen here, Buster: I ain’t no dog.
It’s like Mack.
12:46 AM
Or pal.
intentional lowercase in title buster?
Yes, but you can use pal in other than vocative positions.
It's hardly ever used in print. More of a speech thing.
In print, it's only ever seen in dialogue.
You think Buster is only vocative?
I do.
12:48 AM
How do you figure?
I can think of no example of it that is not vocative.
I knew Jimi was called Buster
What about a union buster?
That’s a different thing.
@JohanLarsson OED cites are 2:1 for lowercase.
12:49 AM
Oh is it?
I thought they'd be related.
Like the way you'd use "pal".
Oh, but I see. Your comparison to Mack. So like a name.
And moreover, a name used only to address someone, not to refer to them.
It took me ages to figure out "Lady Lubalot" because I read it with a short u.
@KitFox I’d’ve doubled the b for that.
It’s just how I am: predictable.
12:51 AM
I got there eventually, but I had to check what you were referring to.
Did you see the "had" guy?
I delete-voted.
Present perfect rampager? I don't understand what he's angling about.
He was just going on and on and on and on.
It's very strange. I've never seen a peeve like that before.
I don't think the buster question is going to get many answers. sigh
12:53 AM
@KitFox We are so inundated by spammers and trolls that we forget the other major internet pest: the crank.
True dat.
@Robusto why is it important?
I think BrE is the only English! Is probably our most common peeve.
@Robusto I have a possible source to check, but have no copy. DARE.
Anybody want to edit this answer down to comment size so I can convert it?
A: TH sound, is it continuant or stop?

AprendiceI can't comment guys. Need more points. Well, the Brazillian Portuguese phonetics are similar with the Spanish I think, I can understand the differences most clearly when I hear spanish speaking. In fact when we learn english on schools, we learn TH like D or F, Mother becomes MODER and think tur...

12:55 AM
@JohanLarsson It's not as important as, say, world peace. But I heard it today and it struck me funny. So I'd like to know.
@tchrist TRUTH or DARE.
@KitFox He thinks Matthew has both a stop and a fricative, alas. @Mahnax
I suppose it might come across as geminated, but surely not affricated!
@tchrist Con sequences are rebuttal salvos (as distinguished from butt salves).
@tchrist It hurt my eyes, but he seemed so sincere I thought I'd give it a chance at being a comment. Also, it's my last flag for the evening.
Yes, I agree.
Don't get ideas though.
Anyway, I'm off. Ping if you have felt merciful about it.
12:58 AM
Oops. There I go with the 'had'/'have' ugh.
I’ll try.
@Robusto Salva Regina
=~ s/re/va/
@tchrist I'm leaving the obvious unstated with that one.
Too late.
Salve festa dies.
1:00 AM
Why is that question BrE?
Because it's pronounced with a lithp?
I fink not.
Vewy wew, then.
Q: What are the common ways to say "die" ie pass away

JenniferI have heard of phrases like pass away, lose one's life, kick the bucket, depart this life, went to sleep, etc. before, but I am not sure which one to use in different situations. I think some of the phrases are inappropriate for a certain occasion. For example, saying "kick the bucket" at the ...

Chat is going down! Help!
1:08 AM
Sic transit
1:33 AM
What we used to say when the CTA was broken: Sick Transit, Glorious Monday!
It’s ALIVE!!!!
Is it??
Mirabile visu!
And mirabile dictu as well, obviously.
Yo, wazzup?
And lectu and auditu.
1:44 AM
The weak and the strong are the Goldbach conjectures, the very weak and very strong ones are Silverbach conjectures and the other two being formulated by Bronzebach.
2:07 AM
Your use of all caps is offensively loud, and the rest of this non-answer is nothing more than a peeve. — tchrist 29 secs ago
I suppose I should just edit his ALL CAPS MATERIAL into normal casing, but it still annoys me when people yell in a place that is intended to be for civil discourse.
How can text be 'loud'? :D
new^ message
He’s lame
He thinks it’s normal and fine.
Probably a kid.
he needs to learn...
notation, etc.
2:14 AM
Look at the teenager-like picture in his profile.
the rep is only 9
Does it pull up the query for you?
Please log in or register, in order to do your own searches.
2:19 AM
There is that. :)
But it should have shown you the results, right?
no results for disproportional are shown :(
You have to click on the link.
Where the word disproportional is.
Then it shows the results in context.
This may be the strangest thing I've eaten this year:
I normally like those. Never had this one.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I saw that one.
@tchrist It's not without its merits.
2:23 AM
By the way, there are like 42 mentions of disporportionate for each mention of disproportional in COCA.
So the former is much more popular.
@tchrist BINGO! it works when you click the word "DISPROPORTIONAL" :D not that I know what I'm looking at???
But because some M-W dict is missing the word, this kid thinks it is sub-standard slangy aincha-goin-with stuff to be avoided.
I use kid reservèdly.
He’s messing up my lawn flamingos.
he hasn't been taught what the word "proportion" means.
or even ratio
Apparently not.
O that there were a purportion!
For what he purports is just that.
I think the root is in the word "portion"
that's the way it is usually taught...
2:30 AM
> portion from ME. porciun, portion, a. OFr. porcion, portion (12th c. in Hatz.-Darm.), ad. L. portiō-nem share, part, proportion (whence also Prov., Sp. porción, Ital. porzione, Pg. porção).
purport sounds so, British
It’s a regular English word.
just my humble opinion :)
It occurs hundreds and hundreds of times in COCA.
Perhaps it is simply not in your own personal active working vocabulary?
Actually, occurrences are in the 4 digits when you count inflections.
Pretends or alleges might be more common, feigns less.
2:36 AM
But still. There is this locality illusion that is much like the recency illusion, where one imagines his own state of knowledge to be a global one.
as a noun
As a verb, it just means claims.
The first noun sense is:
> 1. That which is conveyed or expressed, esp. by a formal document; bearing, tenor, import, effect; meaning, substance, sense.
5 mins ago, by tchrist
Perhaps it is simply not in your own personal active working vocabulary?
Hence the locality illusion, so you figure it must be British just because you don’t use it.
I assure you that I am not British.
It sounds like it is used in logic alot...
2:40 AM
You would know that more than I would.
Oh there is an obsolete noun sense with a cute citation.
> † b. Outward bearing. Obs. rare-1.

1590 Spenser F.Q. iii. i. 52 ― For shee her sexe under that straunge purport Did use to hide.
The part of logic embedded in Philosophy
That’s from Faerie Queen in case it isn’t obvious.
I wonder whether straunge rhymed with orange. :)
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what does the _OT mean?
it says "ALOT" but the meme generator covered it up
No. That's just on the original image.
I take it you're not familiar with the Alot
Thanks :-)
3:06 AM
Then you can look back in the transcript and see why I posted that image ;p
well, i'm outta here. cya
4:09 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That is correct. Bye!
4:58 AM
@tchrist - thanks. I would laugh if it wasn't so pathetic!
@tchrist No clue, where'd you hear that?
I've never even heard Spanish in Edmonton. Granted, I don't live there.
@tchrist (for the correction, that is!)
@Mahnax I didn’t. I wondered what provoked you to check out Spanish.
How does one make an indentation in an answer?
5:13 AM
@medica Carefully.
You mean like I did with the Free Dictionary thingie?
I ruined yours trying to copy it. :)
You grab with your mouse an instance of U+00A0, NON-BREAKING SPACE, and just paste it as many times as you need. Here are eight of them between the quotes: "        ".
Well, huh.
what happened?
SO did some weird compression.
Dang it.
It’s converting them into spaces.
I may have to get wicked.
lol (sorry) I think lots of things are weird when I try to make spaces in my answers.
5:16 AM
I can fix yours, but I think chat is being naughty.
Meanwhile, take a gander at this one:
A: Are there any English one-word equivalents for "je ne sais quoi"?

DanielI dare anyone to find an answer to this one. This is highly cultural and, like many other sayings, even the most evolved dictionaries cannot pinpoint the essence behind those word sequences. If you are keen on French idiosyncrasies, check the Larousse LEXIS, my bible when it comes to the French...

ah. No, it's ok, I just wanted to learn. :)
I saw that.
Oh, I see.
Well, I put them in.
thank you!
But you can use their HTML entity by name, which is  
what an answer...
I have to learn more HTML...
5:19 AM
However, that requires 6 characters to encode each one, whereas a real non-breaking space, which is character 160 or hex A0, is just one character long.
I've learned a lot more than I ever knew since coming here.
programming know-how comes in handy.
So I put eight of them there, as one character apiece. With the HTML entity (which is what those named character "escapes" are called), it would have been         
Which is ugly and tedious if you don’t just paste it a bunch like I just did.
But it won’t get lost in the shuffle so easily that way.
I've been trying to find more of Atressi con L'oriphanz online, but I can't.
I had trouble finding what I found.
what is that?
5:24 AM
I can see why!
I should dig out The Key to the Name of the Rose and see what it has to say about this.
@skullpatrol A troubadour song from long ago and far away, in courtly languages that have fallen on hard times.
@skullpatrol It's a really neat manuscript written in two Romance languages I'd not heard of.
2 days ago, by tchrist
> Souvent, c’est l’absence d’articulation au niveau du genou qui est rappelée. Ainsi, le poète occitan Rigaut de Barbezieux se compare, dans sa célèbre chanson Atressi con l’orifanz, à l’éléphant qui chute et ne pourra se relever sans l’aide de ses proches, et dans la Priere Theophile, on dit de la Vierge, évoquant la même caractéristique, que jamais elle ne s’est pliée aux vanités du monde.
They are so pretty.
5:26 AM
2 days ago, by tchrist
user image
It’s in the original Occitan/Provençal on the left, and a Catalan translation on the right.
I might do better trying to search under the author, but I doubt it (I'll try, however.)
The other troubadour language that was favored greatly was Galician.
I wonder, is there a facsimile of it?
Or might it be published still?
Basically, everything was in Provençal or Galician. The King of Castile, Alfonso X “The Wise”, didn’t write his famous Songs of Holy Mary and his Songs of the Friend in Castilian, but in Galician, because it was the language of the troubadours.
wow, my connection just did something strange.
It sounds good!
5:29 AM
The Cantigas de Santa Maria ("Canticles of Holy Mary"; Portuguese: [kɐ̃ˈtiɣɐʒ ðɨ ˈsɐ̃tɐ mɐˈɾi.ɐ], Galician: [kanˈtiɣa̝s ðe̝ ˈsanta̝ maˈɾi.a̝]) are 420 poems with musical notation, written in the Galician variant of Galician-Portuguese during the reign of Alfonso X El Sabio (1221–1284) and often attributed to him. It is one of the largest collections of monophonic (solo) songs from the Middle Ages and is characterized by the mention of the Virgin Mary in every song, while every tenth song is a hymn. The Cantigas have survived in four manuscript codices: two at El Escorial, one at Madrid's National...
At the time, there was really no difference between Galician and Portuguese.
There is a bit of difference now.
But not much. Mostly orthographic.
Wow. That looks so cool!
My favorite recording of them is by the Early Music group, Ensemble Alcatraz, in their album Visions and Miracles.
I used to collect illuminated manuscripts. They are very hard to read initially, largely because the writing can be so stylized that all one sees are strokes...
We have so few records of early music that actually employ any sort of musical notation. This is one of the old ones.
That sounds very nice; I will check that out.
5:32 AM
I am 100% sure you will be delighted.
There are antiphonals from before that...
I'm also sure I will.
Yes, I know. But this is still old.
Oh, I see I called them Songs not Canticles. Oh well.
I looked for my copy of The Name of the Rose the other (same difference) night, but found I must have given it away during the great library clean up. :-0
5:34 AM
King Dinis of Portugal also wrote some famous Canticles.
The Cantiga de amigo (Portuguese: [kɐ̃ˈtiɣɐ ð(j) ɐˈmiɣu], Galician: [kaŋˈtiɣa ðe aˈmiɣo]) or Cantiga d'amigo (Old Galician-Portuguese spelling), literally a "song about a boyfriend", is a genre of medieval erotic lyric poetry, apparently rooted in a song tradition native to the northwest quadrant of the Iberian Peninsula. What mainly distinguishes the cantiga de amigo is its focus on a world of female-voiced communication. The earliest examples that survive are dated from roughly the 1220s, and nearly all 500 were composed before 1300. Cantigas d' amigo are found mainly in the Cancioneiro Colocci...
Have you ever been to Florence?
No, I have not.
Of the famous Italian cities, I have only been to Venice.
Ah. I was going to ask you...
What did you like most about Venice?
That there were no cars. :)
Oh, many things, really.
Isn't that grand?
5:37 AM
Some of the artisanry is spectacular.
I loved Murano, but I need to think of another island or two.
So beautiful.
!!wiki Venice
Venice (English /ˈvɛnɪs/; Italian: Venezia [veˈnɛttsia] ( ) alternative obsolete form: Vinegia; Venetian: Venexia [veˈnɛsja]; Latin: Venetiae; Slovene: Benetke) is a city in northeastern Italy sited on a group of 118 small islands separated by canals and linked by bridges. It is located in the marshy Venetian Lagoon which stretches along the shoreline, between the mouths of the Po and the Piave Rivers. Venice is renowned for the beauty of its setting, its architecture and its artworks. The city in its entirety is listed as a World Heritage Site, along with its lagoon. Venice is the capital of the...
It is really a beautiful city...
It is.
5:42 AM
I know glass. What other artisanry is it known for?
Glass is the big on-going one. But the architecture is often striking, too.
> Venice, especially during the Middle Ages, Renaissance and Baroque, was a major centre of art and developed a unique style known as the Venetian School. In the Middle-Ages and the Renaissance, Venice, along with Florence and Rome, became one of the most important centres of art in Europe, and numerous wealthy Venetians became patrons of the arts.
> By the end of the 15th century, Venice had become the European capital of printing, being one of the first cities in Italy (after Subiaco and Rome) to have a printing press after those established in Germany, having 417 printers by 1500.
Foreign words of Venetian origin
Words with a Venetian etymology include arsenal, ciao, ghetto, gondola, imbroglio, lagoon, lazaret, lido, Montenegro, quarantine, regatta. The name of Venezuela is a Spanish diminutive of Venice.
I was stunned by Venice. I've been once. I never expected it to be so beautiful.
@skullpatrol imbroglio. I like that one!
Se nota.
Yes, I thought of books as well.
5:45 AM
> Venice is famous for its ornate glass-work, known as Venetian glass. It is world-renowned for being colourful, elaborate, and skilfully made. Many of the important characteristics of these objects had been developed by the 13th century. Toward the end of that century, the center of the Venetian glass industry moved to Murano.
fabric, but that's no fun unless you're rich...
Venice is a residential, commercial, and recreational beachfront neighborhood of the city of Los Angeles in the Westside region of Los Angeles County. Venice was founded in 1905 as a seaside resort town. It was an independent city until 1926, when it merged with Los Angeles. Today, Venice is known for its canals, beaches and circus-like Ocean Front Walk, a two-and-a-half-mile pedestrian-only promenade that features performers, fortune-tellers, artists, and vendors. == History == === 1800s === In in 1839 La Ballona that, included the southern parts of Venice, was granted by the Mexican government...
Glass is to Venice as damascene work is to Toledo.
It moved to Murano under duress. They were compelled by the rest of the islands because of the fires at the glassworks! :)
I see.
5:46 AM
yes, they were sequestered onto Murano so that the rest of the islands would be safe.
> Cities that are known for a rich history in Damascening where the technique is still practiced are Toledo, Spain; Eibar, Basque Country; and Kyoto, Japan.
Interesting combination.
I'm going to Venice tomorrow (today)
it is an interesting distribution.
Which Venice?
You’re going tomorrow??!?!??!!!!
Are you abroad right now?
5:49 AM
My son and his (yes) (and Fiorenze)
No, I'm here in PA.
Oh my.
My plane leaves JFK at 5 pm
So if it goes down, you'll know why I left the site ;)
(No, I shouldn't joke)
Too many planes in the news these days.
5:50 AM
But so many air disasters... exactly
@medica Have a safe flight.
So my son and DIL are coming, and I feel a little bit of responsibility to show them something special, and thought they might be too young for glass...
@skullpatrol Thank you, skull! :)
Florence, I think I've got covered (all you have to do is walk, and you find treasures), but I feel uncertain about Venice.
Thought that since you spent a number of years in Europe, you might know (you certainly know more than me)
Hi @marantou!
morning? Good morning! :)
....afternoon....evening...I don't know...
5:55 AM
time is relative
Here it's morning :) Have a good, safe flight @medica
It's late here (1:55); I'm putting off the inevitable...
@marantou thank you! :)
@marantou Do you have any recommendations for me for Venice?
For shopping?....masks?
I hate packing. With a passion. I'd rather get a root canal.
That's a good idea!
My DIL would like that.
I had a triple root canal that still hurts 3 years later >8(
5:58 AM
Maybe lace?
and they are light
omg! :-0
@marantou yes, good point!
lace for the ladies....and glassware again...:-/

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