English Language Learners

Anonymous

12:01 AM

Oh, I don't think it can be a conjunction (meaning "but")

Anonymous

I was thinking it was ambiguous whether he "hopes yet" (= still hopes) or whether the thing that he hopes is [yet to live to see …]

Anonymous

I don't know. When I see a yet in a spot like that, I'm not always sure what to make of it.

Anonymous

@snailplane But, "since" also includes period of time up the present. — meatie 3 mins ago

Anonymous

It seems that meatie is unconvinced here, but I'm not sure how to respond

Cerberus

@snailboat I really think it must be yet to live.

Although I don't like the pile of infinitives.

Damkerng T.

12:08 AM

I think that the usage of in the meantime/meanwhile or meantime/meanwhile is quite in-flux.

Anonymous

@Cerberus To me, yet seems literary in that position, which makes me think that there are more possibilities for word order

Cerberus

More possibilities for word order?

Anonymous

Er, meaning…

Anonymous

Yet could, then, appear as a postmodifier (hope yet)

Anonymous

Which wouldn't normally happen in spoken English today. But that's okay―neither would yet to live…

Cerberus

12:11 AM

I don't know, I really think of it as premodifying things.

Yes, it is hardly street language.

You can of course say she hasn't come yet.

Or she will come yet.

@snailboat But to me she will yet come really has yet modifying come.

Damkerng T.

> I hope to the next century to live to see the progress of humanity.

Cerberus

If only because I don't think an adverb like yet can modify an auxiliary verb at all.

Anonymous

People don't usually hope to centuries

Cerberus

Um yeah that sounds off.

Damkerng T.

That's an advantage of being a robot. :D

Anonymous

12:13 AM

Oh! An advanced robot skill, unknown to humankind!

Cerberus

Yay!

Damkerng T.

of is common, in is possible. See also: english.stackexchange.com/questions/153459/…. — Damkerng T. May 31 at 21:51

Yay! I agree with myself in the past.

Anonymous

0

A: What does "doctor" imply? Medical doctor or PhD?

As stated in prior answers, the best advice is to ask. Often people with a Ph.D or a high level of medical education will be upset if you don't use the title correctly. It should be noted that in common usage in the U.S., however, the term "doctor" is most often associated with medical then scie...

Anonymous

My experience at tech companies is people with PhDs just get called by their first names like everyone else

Anonymous

This may have not properly trained me for the world of formal doctor-addressing which is undoubtedly waiting for me

Anonymous

12:21 AM

I laughed when I read "Often people with a Ph.D or a high level of medical education will be upset if you don't use the title correctly", and then I felt a little guilty :-)

Anonymous

I'm not respectful enough!

Damkerng T.

Except for those doctors in hospitals, I think most people with a doctoral degree in the West usually address themselves like everybody else.

I think it's different from place to place.

Anonymous

There are people who insist on being called doctor, but aren't medical doctors. I think. Probably.

Anonymous

Probably very few lawyers insist on it, even though they've managed to get doctor into the name of their degree, technically speaking

Damkerng T.

My guess is tada... the harder life the average person in that place may have, the more likely people with a doctoral degree there would want to be addressed as a Doctor. (Probably with a Big D. :-)

Anonymous

12:24 AM

Probably someday I'll need to address someone formally, and due to my poor upbringing and lack of manners I'll call them Bob or something

Anonymous

And then I'll think back to this day

Anonymous

And regret that I never changed my ways

Damkerng T.

In formal occasions, I guess it's better to address Ph.D. people as "doctor".

Anonymous

At one point my life included formal occasions, I think.

Anonymous

Maybe one day it will again.

Anonymous

12:27 AM

@DamkerngT. The funny thing is, I almost never address anyone.

Anonymous

If I need to get someone's attention, I go for "excuse me"

Damkerng T.

Hah!

Being a Thai, I need to know how to address people above me properly. :D

Anonymous

That's not completely true. Sometimes I say people's names.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's important in Japanese culture.

Anonymous

Also, the in-group / out-group distinction

Damkerng T.

12:29 AM

@snailboat I think that's common in the US.

@snailboat Ahh

Anonymous

If you were working at a company, and you were talking about the company president to a customer

Anonymous

You wouldn't honor the president in your speech

Anonymous

At all!

Damkerng T.

nods

I guess the common sense is probably similar. When in doubt, use the higher honorific word choice. :-)

Anonymous

Sometimes I worry about whether I should be giving English learners advice, since clearly I have a poor upbringing ;-)

Anonymous

12:31 AM

On the other hand, sometimes I think learners are taught to be more polite than is appropriate.

Damkerng T.

Eh?

Anonymous

I guess it's all situational.

Anonymous

You know

Anonymous

Different English-speaking cultures are very different, too

Damkerng T.

Ah, I guess so.

Anonymous

12:32 AM

In India, everyone knights everyone else

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

Which is very off-putting for me

Anonymous

In the US, we pretend that everyone is equal and even call our president "mister"

Damkerng T.

If I were to meet someone from Buckingham tomorrow, I probably need to do a lot of homework!

@snailboat Ahh... Mr. President!

Anonymous

Of course, we have an aristocracy, but we act like they're just regular citizens.

Anonymous

12:34 AM

I was reading a comment Bill Franke wrote before he deleted his account

Anonymous

He's a little bit older than me,

Damkerng T.

In any case, I think it's the fact that USA is the country with the highest number of native speakers of English.

Anonymous

more than twice my age, I think,

Anonymous

and he was writing about how much he disliked it that everyone just addressed him by his first name

Damkerng T.

On ELL?

Anonymous

12:35 AM

It was actually on English.SE, I think.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Anonymous

I think he even used the word "uppity"

Anonymous

But the world I've grown up in is the world where everyone does call each other by their first names, at least once you're out of school

Damkerng T.

From what I learned (maybe indirectly), calling someone's first name before they tell us so is a no-no.

Cerberus

It is the trend...

Anonymous

12:36 AM

There are even teachers and parents who tell you to call them by their first names.

Anonymous

Although to me that's still strange.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. People do it.

Cerberus

At the school where I work, all the kids call the teachers by their first names and say jij to them.

Anonymous

If I don't know someone well enough to call them by their first name, I'm more likely not to address them

Anonymous

I'll just say "excuse me" or such

Anonymous

12:37 AM

@Cerberus Wow! What's jij?

Cerberus

At university, students who know their teachers/professors well also often use first names and jij.

Jij is the informal pronoun for the second person singular, as opposed to U/u.

Anonymous

Ah, like tu/vous?

Damkerng T.

Jij is new to me!

Cerberus

Exactly.

Jij is probably related to you...

Anonymous

I know very little Dutch. One time I wanted to learn, but my Dutch-speaking friend thought it would be a terrible waste of time (she thinks everyone should speak English!) and had no interest in talking about the language

Cerberus

12:39 AM

@DamkerngT. I am not new to you, and it's Your Divine Caninity Cerberus to you, not "jij".

Damkerng T.

lol

Cerberus

@snailboat Hmm too bad. It happens.

Anonymous

I sort of mentally moved on, but I know a couple words.

Cerberus

Not everyone enjoys teaching or talking about language, I suppose.

Anonymous

You know, like slakken

Cerberus

12:40 AM

Yay!

A very important word.

Anonymous

Cerberus

Vous is also being encroached on in French, I believe, as is Sie in German. But as usual Dutch is way ahead.

Anonymous

This is apparently a naaktslak

Cerberus

So pretty!!

Yes, if she has no house on her back, she is naakt.

Anonymous

Oh! Naked snail?

Cerberus

12:42 AM

Yup.

Anonymous

Sea slugs are very pretty.

Cerberus

Naaktslak = slug.

Damkerng T.

Living things in the sea are always interesting (and look exotic).

Cerberus

As are sea snails, like the coni...

Anonymous

When I type naaktslak into Google, it helpfully translates it to Japanese namekuji

Anonymous

12:43 AM

ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/06/nudibranchs/…

Damkerng T.

I probably should find time to visit Andaman again. :-)

@snailboat Oh, I thought they were real for several seconds!

Anonymous

They are.

Damkerng T.

Wait, they are real! Right!?

Anonymous

But they look unreal.

Damkerng T.

Wow, talking about sea creatures!

@snailboat They're irrealis!

Cerberus

12:48 AM

Yay!

A very important function of various moods in Latin, Greek, English...

@snailboat Most extraodinary.

Damkerng T.

I can't tell what this guy is!

Some kind of fish?

Is our user Anaksunaman the male version of Anaksunamun?

I change my opinion on the parse of that sentence.

I think it's better to just read that yet as still, and reading it that way makes me feel like it goes better with hope than to live.

Anonymous

A sea slug! Not a fish, at least not in the modern sense

Damkerng T.

> "I hope ~~yet~~ still to live to see those who sent the Struma cargo back to the Nazis hung as high as Haman cheek by jowl with their prototype and Führer, Adolf Hitler".

@snailboat I can't make out what is what in that picture! Hmm... where are the eyes?

Probably those two dots.

Cerberus

@DamkerngT. From Snaily's page!

My favourite snail so far.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Cerberus

1:02 AM

> Analysis of rachis growth rings indicates sea pens may live for 100 years or more, if the rings are indeed annual in nature.

By the way, @snailboat than you for sending me on a Wiki spree! I had to read all about sea pens now.

Anonymous

Yay!

F.E.

5:46 AM

. . . scratch . . .

0

Q: If He Were/Was Rich

According to time-honored standard English, in this sentence: If he were/was rich, he would buy a new car. only "were" is acceptable and "was" is regarded as nonstandard but slowly gaining acceptance. We are now half way through the year 2014. So, could it be that "was" is finally a...

Er, . . .

"Too many trees, only one ax"

Speaking of "double negation" . . . :)

> CGEL page 175 [2.iii]: He can't not have read it.

Of course, that does not mean the same thing as: He has read it.

For one version has modality in it ("can"), which the other doesn't.

1

Q: "be to do" versus "have to do"

I googled it and searched in other options as well though i couldn't figure out the differences.please help me out. I am to do these things. I have to do these things. Thanks.

grammar

That one will be an interesting one to attempt to explain. :)

0

Q: 'It has rained for two hours.' Is it raining now? or It stoped raining now?

In our country we don't have present perfect form, so it is difficult for us to understand 'present perfect' exactly. ex) It has rained for two hours. In this sentence Is it raining now? or It stopped raining now?

grammar

Is it mere coincidence that the example is almost identical to that of another recent post? :)

Same textbook? Quiz? EFL exam? . . .

skullpatrol

6:14 AM

. . . coincidence indeed.

F.E.

There have been a lot of recent questions involving the present perfect. I wonder if there are a bunch of classes hitting that chapter of their textbooks . . .

skullpatrol

Probably.

It happens just like that on the math site.

It seems only natural, since most people don't want to learn about this kind of stuff just for fun :-)

F.E.

2

Q: Tenses with "until then" - Is past perfect needed or is it optional?

If I understood correctly, "until now" can be "until then" in the past sentences. Would this be correct? 1) It was a new approach that was never successfully performed until then. or should I use past perfect? 2) It was a new approach that had never been successfully performed until th...

tenses backshifting sp-vs-past-perfect

> 1) It was a new approach that was never successfully performed until then.

Perhaps an interesting one. :)

Perhaps it could be an it-cleft, or else it could be using an integrated relative clause--all depending on whether or not the "it" pronoun is a dummy pronoun or a, er, real pronoun.

F.E.

6:43 AM

@snailboat I tried to upvote one of your recent comments, but it got gone'd. :)

Nico

9:52 AM

@snailboat From now on, I wish to be called Dr Nico... on second thoughts, I rather be called Dr Who!

fahdijbeli

11:51 AM

Hi

Nico

@F.E. If modality is the only difference, would it be the same as: He has to have read it?

Damkerng T.

12:39 PM

Recent questions on ELL can be broadly classified into four groups. The first three groups are those questions that are best answered by Google(-ing), those that are too literal, and those that could be good questions if they were asked the first time on ELL. The last group is for the rest of the questions, and the number of new questions of this kind seems to be less and less.

Damkerng T.

1:09 PM

I just done walking though questions on the main page. I don't count those questions the Community kicks back up. Here is my classification:

> Class 1: (Google could answer them)
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30364/meaning-of-precipice-in-the-sentence
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30380/whats-the-meaning-of-smithian-skeptism-in-this-sentence
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30368/what-does-formal-mean-in-formal-park-phrase
*http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30375/what-does-go-around-it-mean
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30346/what-does-doctor-imply-medical-doctor-or-phd
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30350/how-are-numbers-such-as-thousands-or-millions-pronounced

> Class 2: (literal-or-detail-oriented)
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30383/what-is-this-as
?http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30384/discerning-the-correct-position-of-adverbs
*http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30265/in-the-meantime
*http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30269/meaning-of-yet-in-i-hope-yet-to-live
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30314/as-in-the-way-in-the-activity
?http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30363/is-this-past-progressive-sentence
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/13059/compound-adjectives

> Class 3: (good but probably duplicate)
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30360/it-has-rained-for-two-hours-is-it-raining-now-or-it-stoped-raining-now
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30367/be-to-do-versus-have-to-do
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30365/if-he-were-was-rich

> Class 4:
?http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30386/how-to-introduce-diversion-in-a-paper
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30370/we-are-not-holding-below-booking-any-longer-versus-we-are-no-longer-holding
?http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30264/i-have-something-urgent-needs-or-need-your-help
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30255/the-meaning-of-shooting-in-this-sentence-heres-the-html-were-shooting-to-ge
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/30344/the-application-draws-all-of-an-image-unscaled-the-image-is-not-scaled-when-t

Nico

@DamkerngT. You should also open a category for trolling questions (I reckon some, currently in 2, would be good candidates for this new category).

Damkerng T.

Hee... I suspect some of them are so, indeed, too!

I think we all heard something along the line that ELL and ELU are different in the way the answers are expected (roughly, "I want to know the correct usage" is for ELL, and "I want to know why it's so" is for ELU). I'm not sure where a question which the expected answer virtually doesn't exist should belong.

My phrase of the day: Flowers can't bloom where the weeds grow

user116848

1:45 PM

Hello!

Damkerng T.

Oh, hello!

user116848

:)

fahdijbeli

2:08 PM

my lesson today is the Tone :)

how to make tone in the writing lol

Damkerng T.

Oh! I think we normally don't write tones in English!

I guess that there are many systems for that, though.

fahdijbeli

why you use though in the end of your sentence ? @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

2:24 PM

Hmm... because it was the last thing I thought of when I wrote that sentence?

English is very flexible in this respect.

> He said, "Blah, blah, blah."
"Blah, blah, blah," he said.

fahdijbeli

it's formal ?

Damkerng T.

My though is not formal. It's quite common, I'd say.

fahdijbeli

so here like however ?

because I seen it in many sentences

Damkerng T.

Yes. Its main function (the way I used) was to make what I said earlier less absolute.

> "I think this usage is not correct." -- "Some people might think it's fine, though."

fahdijbeli

ah yes thanks :)

Damkerng T.

2:31 PM

Welcome :)

fahdijbeli

thanks for your support :)

Damkerng T.

My pleasure!

fahdijbeli

I always asked here because I losed some job because of english :(

Damkerng T.

Ahh... that's sad.

fahdijbeli

yes

if I will speak good in english I will find one it's sure :)

Damkerng T.

2:34 PM

:D

Have you tried taking a course or something?

fahdijbeli

now yes, but no before

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I see. That sounds great!

fahdijbeli

:)

my problem is I can't form many sentences, however, I have the vocabulary and i understand what you said

therefor if you talk with me i understood but I can't talk

you see the problem ?

Damkerng T.

A-ha! I think I understand your problem.

Is your course about conversational English?

fahdijbeli

no, the best writing in english

the title of my course is the best writing in english

Damkerng T.

2:42 PM

Oh!

So you want to learn to speak but take a writing course. :)

fahdijbeli

yes because I don't found one about conversational English

the best way i thougth is to fly to london or country which its language is english lol

yes because I don't found one about conversational English

Damkerng T.

Ahh...

I guess that you've already searched for clips about conversational English on YouTube already. (I think there are lots of them that teach conversational English. I haven't really looked into it, though.)

fahdijbeli

a humm.. ok :)

thanks

I'll back

Damkerng T.

See you soon!

Anonymous

3:05 PM

@DamkerngT. It's a nice phrase, but it seems to be false―many weeds can flower! ;-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat That's also true, but I don't like weed flowers much. :)

Anonymous

I like dandelions.

Damkerng T.

They look nice indeed (wow, photos on the web are really beautiful!), but if I find them in my garden, I have to get rid of them asap!

They literally killed a few of my roses. :(

Anonymous

Sad!

Anonymous

Maybe you need more snails.

Anonymous

3:12 PM

They eat dandelions.

Damkerng T.

LOL

And probably my roses and other trees, too, in the process!

Anonymous

Well, yes. :-)

Anonymous

Collateral snail damage.

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

Snails must be fed!

Damkerng T.

3:14 PM

Hmm... strange, I think I haven't seen many of them this year... What happened?

Too many birds?

Or snakes? (Do snakes eat snails?)

I had a lot of snails, and I mean a lot!, in my garden some years.

Have I told you that I even had a big lizard in my garden once?

user116848

Hi snailboat

Anonymous

Hello!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't know. In the wild, snails meet many unpleasant fates

user116848

Damks do you like any animals apart from robots :D

Damkerng T.

I like cats and birds, but I guess they don't get along very well. :)

user116848

3:23 PM

:)

Damkerng T.

Some dogs are nice too.

user116848

I like birds too :)

Anonymous

Oh, it's supposed to get up to 38℃ tomorrow

Damkerng T.

That's too warm!

Anonymous

Do you like ℃ or °C better?

Anonymous

3:24 PM

> 38℃
> 38°C

Damkerng T.

I like the first one more, probably with a space.

Anonymous

Oh, I'd never use a space.

Anonymous

38 ℃

Damkerng T.

Hmm... That doesn't look as good as I thought. :D

user116848

How can you type small o in centigrade? With that software?

Anonymous

3:25 PM

Someone else can feel free to use a space, though―I don't claim that my way is the only way :-)

Anonymous

Japanese input software is also useful for entering many symbols.

Anonymous

I type sessi to get ℃ and do C to get °C

user116848

I see

Damkerng T.

Neat!

user116848

@DamkerngT. Damks can you type o in centigrade in your computer?

Damkerng T.

3:26 PM

I think I can't. I don't know. Never tried that before.

Anonymous

Damkerng, you have Japanese input installed too

Anonymous

Try typing do, which means "degree(s)"

Anonymous

° could be one of the options

Damkerng T.

I just tried it, but I think I don't know how to make it work!

Anonymous

Japanese for Celsius is セルシウス Serushiusu, but there's a form derived from the Chinese transcription of the name, 摂氏 Sesshi which is used for short

Anonymous

3:29 PM

Typing that one on my computer gets me ℃ as one of the options

Damkerng T.

By the way, the big lizard in my garden sort of looked like that!

Anonymous

Fahrenheit is commonly used in the US.

user116848

:16884491 Don't you use Farenheit in US?

Anonymous

If I were talking to an American, I would convert to Fahrenheit.

Anonymous

But I use Celsius.

user116848

3:31 PM

Why my post got removed by itself just now?

Anonymous

It might sound strange, but I consider it part of language learning. If an American goes somewhere outside the US and speaks another language there, they'll have to get used to Celsius to communicate :-)

Anonymous

One moment

Damkerng T.

@Arrowfar In this chat room?

user116848

@DamkerngT. Yeah above. But it's okay I guess.

Damkerng T.

Ah, I thought you deleted it yourself.

Anonymous

3:33 PM

user116848

@DamkerngT. Yeah I deleted it, but what I wrote again it got deleted by itself.

Damkerng T.

A wrong click, perhaps?

Anonymous

Maybe you had bumped the up key before typing your second message

user116848

Yes, I think so too.

Anonymous

4:02 PM

@snailplane But the second reference point in time could be in the past or present or future. So, it is ambiguous. — meatie 21 mins ago

Anonymous

As far as I can tell, it's not ambiguous at all.

Anonymous

When someone writes .., I can never tell whether it's a typo for a period or a typo for an ellipsis.

oerkelens

@snailboat Even if that American sticks to English when going abroad, it is much appreciated if they can conform to local standards of measurements :)

Anonymous

It's okay. I use Celsius for everything here in the US.

Anonymous

Because, well, why not?

oerkelens

4:07 PM

@snailboat Because measuring distances or speed in Celsius is quite inconvenient?

Anonymous

@oerkelens Very funny. :-)

oerkelens

takes a bow

Anonymous

Of course, everything is obviously pragmatically bound by context.

oerkelens

It's a tough world where everything is bound, especially pragmatically, no matter whom by.

Anonymous

Not everything, everything! :-)

oerkelens

4:19 PM

Are you now trying to explain everything to me? How nice :)

Damkerng T.

Some folks say everything is an object, some say everything is a string, some say everything is just maya. :)

oerkelens

Some have said everything is vanity, and so far, they seem to have a great following :)

Damkerng T.

Even though I'm not sure what they mean, I guess you're right about following. :)

Anonymous

5:08 PM

Oh, now we have ten people!

Damkerng T.

7:18 PM

F.E.

7:28 PM

@DamkerngT. So which of the two is you? Wait, you ain't go no fur . . .

> If modality is the only difference, would it be the same as: "He has to have read it"?

I'm assuming that is to be compared to: "He has read it."

Anonymous

@F.E. Or very similar, if the modality is perhaps of the same type but stronger in one or the other (in can't not have?)

F.E.

Yes, I was thinking that the version ""He has to have read it" has epistemic modality.

Nico

"He can't not have read it" ~ "He has to have read it" ?

F.E.

The strengths in modality are probably different.

Anonymous

@F.E. Yeah, I think so.

Anonymous

7:36 PM

But also, "He has to have read it" has a deontic reading available

Nico

►

Anonymous

(Of course, depending on context)

F.E.

@snailboat Probably due to the use of the non-finite infinitival "to have"?!

There might be related stuff in CGEL, page 174 [1], where it talks about plain form of a verb used with a modal sense--such as in an infinitival construction.

Tiger on page 179 in his re-reading. :)

-2

A: If He Were/Was Rich

It's all about subjunctive mood. When the sentence is wishful, it takes the plural verb were. You are just thinking and it's a hypothetical thought of assuming he being a rich man. Therefore, If he were rich, he'd buy a new car - is correct. As you are thinking, it has nothing to do with th...

There ought to be a ban that forbids any use of GrammarGirl as a grammar source.

At least I got another link to another bad grammar article to put into my BadGrammar folder. :D

user3724662

7:53 PM

Hi!

I'm the old Bob The Zealot

But accidently changed my name.

Anonymous

8:06 PM

@Bobthezealot Did you change it back? It looks correct to me right now

Anonymous

@F.E. That must be a very large folder!

Nico

8:20 PM

5

Q: Is "número" masculine or feminine?

English: Consider this sentence "Mi habitación es la número cinco." Why couldn't "número" be masculine as in "el número cinco"? Does it have something to do with the gender of "habitación"? I'm asking this question becase I'm sure I've heard "número" as a masculine noun before. Español: Consi...

genero

This is an interesting question that I think also applies to English.

In "room number 5", what's syntactic function of number?

> This is room number 5

> This is the river Thames

Anonymous

That's a good question

Anonymous

I don't know how it's analyzed in the grammars I have without looking it up

Anonymous

But number five seems to function a lot like a determiner

Anonymous

Except that it comes after the head of the noun phrase

Anonymous

> the egg

Anonymous

8:31 PM

> egg number one

Anonymous

It makes the NP definite, specifying which egg it refers to, and doesn't seem to co-occur with a determiner

Anonymous

Then we could divide number one up and perhaps say one is the (nominal?) head and number is an attributive modifier

Anonymous

I'll have to look that up later and see what smarter people than me have to say :-)

Anonymous

Still, egg feels like the head of egg number one to me

Anonymous

> I cracked open the egg.

Anonymous

8:35 PM

> I cracked open egg number one.

Anonymous

I have a feeling this isn't how CGEL analyzes it (because I don't remember seeing this in the section on determiners)

Anonymous

What do you think?

Anonymous

Within number one, it feels like one is the head, and number is an omissible modifier which tells you something about one

Anonymous

> I cracked open egg one.

Damkerng T.

I think it is simpler to think of "number X" as a compound noun. (Just like things like twofold, threefold, fourfold, etc.)

Anonymous

8:44 PM

Well, that could work, but… though -fold is clearly a suffix, it's not as clear that we should consider number- a prefix

Anonymous

And it's omissible, unlike -fold

Anonymous

Which suggests that number one is a phrase rather than a word

Damkerng T.

True. True. -- a robot whirring by...

Anonymous

We also might consider that -fold does not exist as an independent word with the same meaning as the suffix, while number clearly does exist as an independent word with the same meaning

Anonymous

So it's probably simpler to say it's just the same word, number the noun, all around

Anonymous

8:51 PM

@DamkerngT. whirr!

Damkerng T.

Ahh... It looks like it's getting a bit more complicated in Spanish!

@snailboat Hee

Oh, I just recall that we also have numbers that aren't just numbers!

Like, a pencil number 2B.

(Not sure if we really call them that.)

Anonymous

Ah, a number that isn't entirely made of numerals!

Anonymous

People do say things like "number 2B"

Anonymous

Or even "number B2"

Damkerng T.

Haha. Now I'm really not sure!

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