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5:00 PM
@ChrisWhite Thanks, I will start with that citation.
 
I can't express why I hate it (pretty historical- I think...)
 
Have to go. Bye all.
 
But, I studied an year ago..!
 
@JohnRennie cya :)
 
@JohnRennie Bye John..!
 
5:01 PM
Bye @John
And with that our official chat session is "over"
sorry I couldn't really participate, I'm scrambling to finish a blog post :-P
 
ohh... it's 10-30 (yep)
 
Alright, everyone, chat over, STOP TALKING!
 
@DavidZaslavsky so, you were circling between h-bar and your blog..!
 
pretty much
and my research
 
I'm writing a report on a vulnerability in our network infrastructure
 
5:03 PM
@ManishEarth Hey, you don't count now..! you're in vacation --> Isn't it???
 
@CrazyBuddy So?
Still doing physics and programming
 
you'd be always freeee...!
 
@ManishEarth Work related? If you can, what sort of vuln?
 
Me - I've got to submit a lot of things in this week..!
Next week, I've to get ready for my sem..! :)
 
user54412
@ColinMcFaul try this or this for more detail
 
5:05 PM
@BrandonEnright I'm a physics student, no work. This is just a vuln in the uni infrastructure that I want fixed.
@BrandonEnright ARP spoofing on the HTTP proxy. The credentials are used elsewhere, for important things. Using it I can sniff the credentials of my batchmates and wreak havoc if I wish -- I can make them drop courses, etc.
 
user54412
@ColinMcFaul better yet, this review article probably is a good place to start: adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008ARA%26A..46..289T
 
looks like @Brandon doesn't see anyone's profile..!
 
@ChrisWhite I'll probably start there; thanks.
 
@CrazyBuddy Lots of physics students also work for their university or department doing programming, networking, and other systems work :-)
 
@CrazyBuddy What @BrandonEnright said
 
5:08 PM
@BrandonEnright ah... okay..!
@ManishEarth nothing... just that he asked whether you work or not, etc...
okay - dinner time..! c'yall later ;-)
 
i've just found the damn mistake :(
I think I've made tens of mistakes today while doing this stupid equation!
 
Anybody here from Australia?
 
Not me :P
 
5:30 PM
@Gugg Me neither... I'm just 4.5 hrs. in the past..!
 
5:42 PM
@ManishEarth I'm editing the thoofts/einstiens/etc slowly, but...
 
I noticed that Ron Maimon is a mass producer of misspellings of 't Hooft.
 
Do you think I could get him to do it himself, or is that probably a no-go?
Ah, forget it, I'll just ask him at one of his answers.
 
007
We stop gaining rep from edits once we pass the 2K barrier?
or it's happening with me only?
 
5:46 PM
Me too.
 
@007 yep
 
I have a quick definitional question. I see "asymptotically flat" mentioned a lot with GR. Is that just a nice way of saying "so close to flat it might as well be flat"?
 
I think so. I'm not a reliable source though
 
@BrandonEnright Does this help?
 
ah perfect so it can be curved locally but at infinity it's basically flat. so a lone star in the universe for example
So yes, @gugg, thank you, that does help :-)
 
5:55 PM
yw
 
@BrandonEnright it means it's curvature tends to zero as $|x| \to \infty$
 
@AlexeiAverchenko yeah typical asymptote relation. For any given $\epsilon$ there is an $x$ such that the distance between the line and the curve is less than $\epsilon$
 
@BrandonEnright I must say that I am deeply impressed with Wikipedia in general. It's breadth and depth is truly astonishing.
 
I have a question
 
@Gugg indeed 90% of it is absolutely great :-) Wikipedia has had a huge impact on my life.
 
6:02 PM
@nonagon Where is it?
 
I am basically done with high school physics (general physics test). But when I try to think deeply , I can't seem to get what is high school physics about , I mean I am able to solve problems etc. but not able to capture what is it that I've learnt
 
You've learnt ... to think? Maybe?
 
user54412
@nonagon It's not clear that high school physics is about anything in particular
 
That question is a bit too existential for my tastes
 
user54412
it gives you some tools and some ways of thinking quantitatively
 
6:04 PM
I mean its like some random things I learnt , Like what is electric field , then some ideal gas systems or how objects move , but unlike a structure , a backbone lacks . I don't know what I am actually doing
 
user54412
if all goes well, university-level physics should teach you how to make connections, inferences, and predictions, even in situations you've never seen before
 
user54412
at least, that was what happened for me
 
And if you don't go into physics, but somewhere else, you might see such connections as well.
 
@nonagon Try to go deeper. The beauty of physics will pop out then
For example, try to understand the gyroscopic effect
 
No , I am definitely going in physics
 
6:07 PM
@nonagon 10th grade physics is not enough to make that decision, and 12th grade physics is not enough to have that level of certainty in that decision
 
Basically its like I learned and understood some chapters , but what connects those chapters is lacking .
 
I think I got 'em
$$\begin{array}\\ u(t) &=& \frac{U}{k U t + 1}, \\ v(t) &=& - \frac{kU}{kUt + 1}\left(\frac{g}{kU} t + \frac{g}{2} t^2\right).\end{array}$$
where $k$ is the drag coefficient
$u(0) = U$ and $v(0) = 0$
these look like they could be pretty accurate solutions
 
I am done with 12th grade physics as of now . But its just I enjoy physics , not just reading , doing problems everything . So I think I am pretty sure regarding that I am going for physics when I get into college.
 
user54412
@nonagon I agree with Manishearth about that decision - something like half my class thought they wanted to go into physics when entering college, but most of them found out that there are many, many fields you don't even see in high school, and some are really cool
 
But right now physics is like bits I have picked up , that are vaguely connected . And I dont know what I am learning
 
6:10 PM
@nonagon Doing problems is not enough for this decision. Popular physics (if you subscribe to it) is many times counterproductive here
 
@ChrisWhite Like what ?
 
user54412
@nonagon don't worry about it - you're young enough - the connections will come with time
 
user54412
@nonagon applied physics, material science, geology
 
For this reason I've always kept my options open. I like physics right now, and I'm doing physics. But I've kept avenues open for a career as a programmer as well (another thing that I enjoy)
 
user54412
just to name a few
 
6:11 PM
@ChrisWhite I don't know about that . Do they have those sorts of math and symmetry and thought experiments ? Those subjects ?
 
I don't think that I have had anywhere near enough exposure to make this decision. I'm trying to get that much exposure, and so far so good :)
 
user54412
@nonagon you'd be surprised how many directions you can take in whatever field, but my advice would be to talk to people in other areas
 
@nonagon Perhaps what you enjoy is (mathematical) modelling in general. That happens in lots of fields. Mathematics, operations research, econometrics, economics, game theory, are some of the fields I'm familiar with.
 
@ManishEarth I don't like programming , I have it in school . It kinda seems dull
 
user54412
@ManishEarth post-graduation surveys from my undergrad consistently show it is the CS/programming people who are happiest with life :P
 
6:13 PM
Still , can anyone guide me as to what I am basically trying to achieve out of high school physics ?
 
In my institute there was someone who did nanotech, liked it, went on to an M. Tech and PhD, and switched over to bio-something midway through his PhD. He is now successful in that and loves it.
There are many similar cases, just that I haven't heard of them
@ChrisWhite Possibly :)
Currently I'm treating it as a hobby
 
@ChrisWhite Basically its astrophysics only which interests me right now . I mean kind of fascinates someone who has 0 knowledge about it . And what is it like at Princeton?
 
@nonagon Well, that's your view of it -- I was just putting forth my situation. Not telling you to emulate me
 
:)
sorry
 
awesome, my solutions agree with the vacuum solutions when $k \to 0$!
that's awesome 8)
 
6:16 PM
@nonagon it depends a lot of the area of physics you work on but many professional physicists spend most of their time working on computer models, programming, HPC, etc.
 
user54412
@Alexei nice
 
@BrandonEnright that too. this summer I'll be doing some computational work on graphene(/etc) bands
 
well, they'd have to agree in any case, because the error term is multiplied by $k$ :D
 
user54412
@nonagon astrophysics is very broad - and very connected to other fields too
 
but it's a sign that I didn't screw up this time
 
6:17 PM
@ManishEarth All this happens at IIT ?
 
@ChrisWhite Most branches of physics --heck, most branches of science -- are like that
@nonagon computational work? Yes.
 
user54412
neutron stars involve superfluidity and quantum effects; star formation involves hydrodynamics; interstellar medium involves physical chemistry
 
@nonagon All big research Universities have extreme diversity even within a department. Dozens of areas to focus on.
 
user54412
@ManishEarth true
 
The PhD story I told you? No. The student was an IITian, but the phd thing happened in the States
 
6:18 PM
@nonagon I don't know what 12 grade means. What age are you?
 
16
 
@Gugg 12 grade=what you do at 17-18 years of age
Last thing before undergrad
 
i hope the residual will be tame, too!
 
And you have to decide now? Or can you follow different things in your next school?
 
@Gugg Basically you can assume physics level of Resnick Halliday Krane and Kleppner etc.
 
6:19 PM
in that case these solutions will be enough for most practical purposes
 
@Gugg One of the bad things about India is that you decide your branch when taking admission into undergrad. By extension, you decide your broader branch (engineering, medicine,science,arts,business/commerce) after passing out of 10th
 
Yes , and the competition is fierce here :)
 
yep
 
So, nonagon is already committed to science. Engineering etc are already off the table?
 
You can't afford screwing up a bit on the day of exam . It'll make a huge impact as to the kind of teachers and facilities that'll be provided to you . And Manish here belongs to possibly the best institute here
 
6:22 PM
@ManishEarth it depends a bit on the field and the school but many engineering majors are "impacted" at US Universities so if you don't apply for a specific field, you can't get into that field.
 
@nonagon qualifier: engineering institute. Possibly for science. And I won't comment on the "best" part :P
 
Yes off the table .
 
@nonagon Math?
 
@ManishEarth I don't get you
 
@nonagon There are better institutes than IITB in the fields of medicine and business/commerce/management :P. And possibly in science.
 
user54412
6:24 PM
@nonagon with regard to what you've learned so far, that's basically like 1-5% of the physics involved in a college degree - be prepared to learn tons of new cool things, after which it should all make more sense as to how everything fits together
 
Yes math interests me , Basically both maths and physics . But I haven't been introduced properly to it . The proof type mathematics is basically not introduced in India very well , since it isn't asked . So I don't know about it .
@ChrisWhite Yes , I like the fact , it is only 1-5 percent .
 
@nonagon surely math at the college level is just as rigorous in India as elsewhere
 
@BrandonEnright There's a lot of focus on problem solving (and less on concepts) here
Having studied at the school level in both the US and India, I have a half-written blog post about all this. Life isn't letting me finish it :P
 
user54412
I feel my pure math education has done wonders for my ability to think about problems, but maybe that's just me
 
@BrandonEnright Yes , but here in India , it isn't like that . I mean teachers themselves will tell you , learn it . who cares about the details , just go and crack the exam.
 
6:27 PM
"Just go and crack the exam" <-- sad, but true
 
0
Q: Question with two, three right answers?

jdmI have a little dilemma. There is simple question that came up in my actual research that I'd like to ask, but I think it's forbidden by stackexchange rules, because it has more than one correct answer. The question (from exp. particle physics) would be something along: What data-driven metho...

 
Who is this Physics Meta ? Hi buddy , LOL
 
A feedbot. Check the userid
Negative userids are feedbots
 
@nonagon It seems like Indian students are really incentivised to choose what they are really good at, as opposed to what they really like? That seems to sort of give a clue to your choice: what are you really good at?
 
@Gugg No, they are incentivised to choose what their parents want/what society deems best/what is the most lucrative
 
6:29 PM
@Gugg I can say amongst people I know , I am good at physics , but that's because I like it more than them.
 
"What they are really good at" is a viable starting point IMO. Just that one shouldn't burn down the other options
 
@nonagon speaking for myself here but it was my experience that what I was good at or thought was easy in high school didn't at all match my experience in college.
 
@Gugg Basically , I am not worried about a career or anything . I have a secure career in business here , but I want to learn for my own sake .
 
@ManishEarth I thought that was China, not India? :)
 
@Gugg India is similar
any place with population problems
 
6:31 PM
@Gugg But others are very severly pressured by society to crack that exam and get rid of their poverty .
 
and any place with a rigid, respect-driven culture
India and China have both
 
That's why most Indians tend to go to US for Phds . Because they are kind of trying to seek a better environment.
 
Regarding opportunity for Indian engineers, I work at a tech company in "silicon valley". Indians make up about 70% of the employees here and Chinese make up another 5% or so.
 
@BrandonEnright Due to language, I guess?
 
Because of so many engineering colleges here. You can't even imagine.
 
6:33 PM
@Gugg I do think Indians have a bit of an advantage over your average Chinese engineer because their English tends to be better.
 
@BrandonEnright Yeah: English is one of the two link languages here, especially in the South. Otherwise most states have a different language.
 
@Gugg And Manish here belongs to an engineering college which is the most difficult to get into . Most.
 
user54412
interestingly there are far more Chinese astrophysicists than Indian astrophysicists in the US these days, and I have no idea why
 
Because indians are busy posting spam about astrology
 
@ChrisWhite That could be very relevant for nonagon. Why is that?
 
6:35 PM
@ChrisWhite Raj Koothrapalli has scared Indians into thinking that they'll become like him if they do astrophysics :P
 
Haha.
 
It's really hard to say though. I certain amount of it is critical mass. There are whole teams that are exclusively Indians just because most people get jobs by recommending friends and former colleagues. If you get enough of any one people various forces tend to draw more.
 
user54412
@Gugg I don't think it's a bias in selection, just an application bias
 
To be serious: No clue. Most of the physicists I know seem to be into HEP
That's probably a localized fluctuation though
 
Basically it depends on your interests . May be some chinese people were interested in Astrophysics at a time ,
 
6:36 PM
@ManishEarth absolutely. Here it's a critical mass of Indians. Some companies it's Chinese or some other group.
 
that too
 
user54412
India needs more motivational posters featuring this guy: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subrahmanyan_Chandrasekhar :)
 
@nonagon I don't think that is how China works.
 
@ChrisWhite Yep. Ramanujan is a big deal here, but Chandrasekhar -- not so much
 
@ChrisWhite for that you've to shut down the whole education system here . It is moving towards production of machines rather than researchers
 
6:39 PM
It is my hand-wavy perception that both Indians and Chinese tend to favor more traditional professional and engineering jobs. Medical Doctors, Lawyers, etc. In engineering they tend to be come software developers. There aren't many in unique or emerging engineering roles.
 
@ManishEarth Chandrasekhar too is . I think almost everyone knows about chandrashekhar limit. At least its name
 
@nonagon That's about it
Read up on his life
fascinating
 
@nonagon So, your interested in the unification of the things that you've learnt thus far. You mentioned some books, but I don't know them. Are you sort of aware where physics stands as to unification?
Would this be your driver?
 
@Gugg "Are you sort of aware where physics stands as to unification?" My english isn't so good
 
Yes it is. :)
 
6:41 PM
I mean I don't get you , what you meant to say in that question/sentence ?
 
@BrandonEnright Yep. It's because some careers are deemed "desirable", and the social structure (elders/society must be listened to) fuels this
 
@ChrisWhite I kind of want to be where you are :)
@Gugg I still don't get what you meant to say
 
One of the drivers of some parts of physics is to unify quantum mechanics with general relativity. The rest has been done, sort of. (I tentatively think.) Do you know about this?
 
Yes , I have watched through the wormhole and minute physics :P
 
So, given where things now stand, you won't be able the unify everything you have learnt and will learn.
 
6:46 PM
@ManishEarth Is the selection procedure for UG as fierce in US also ?
@Gugg What do you do ?
 
@nonagon IIRC money is an important factor, if you can pay it's not a problem. Competition is only an issue if you want a scholarship
 
None of your business. (I spam.)
 
@nonagon Goes around fixing 't Hooft's name :P
 
LOL
 
IIRC ?
 
6:48 PM
If I Recall Correctly
 
user54412
@nonagon certainly good students can get into good colleges here
 
Scholarship=someone pays part of your fees
 
user54412
as Manish said, scholarships are harder to come by
 
Yeah. If you're good, not a problem.
 
@ChrisWhite Good ? how does one judge ?
 
user54412
6:48 PM
also, who gets into the "top" schools is somewhat random - there are more "top" students than positions
 
user54412
in the US applications are more holistic - standardized test scores are part of it, but for undergrad they also want to know what else you've done
 
@nonagon SATs, extracurrics (a LOT more focus on these than in India), general academic performance
 
user54412
like sports, leadership, research
 
I mean @ManishEarth you've seen the schooling of india , how can you expect someone here to learn about advanced topics here in physics and publish papers or work under some known physicist , when you are busy prepareing for JEE
 
@nonagon Don't prepare for JEE
 
6:50 PM
@ManishEarth Then what ?
 
Try to get into IISER or CMI or whatever
You'll have a lot more time on your hands
 
IISER is basically admitting through JEE only .
And CMI is only mathematics now
 
If you're fixated on physics, these will let you focus on it, and in your free time you can do moar physics
@nonagon Not that much competition
 
Still one has to prepare . Clearing the exam is a must to get IISER/IISC
 
However, if you want some overall development -- not just academics, and not just physics, the IITs become an option
@nonagon ah
When I prepared, I had tons of time on my hand to explore physics/programming/whatnot
And waste time
 
6:53 PM
@nonagon Just to clarify, your next school will be in India for sure?
 
Yes . 99%
 
It depends on how you study. If you're going to rapidly solve $\aleph_1$ problems, it will be time consuming
If you're going to step back, understand, and then work on speed/accuracy, it takes significantly less time
Just that the education system in India till 10th/12th doesn't promote the mentality required for the second method
but you may have it (seems like it from previous discussions)
 
I don't go to school that much
 
Bad boy/girl
 
HAHA
$\aleph_1$ ?
 
6:57 PM
Yes, into the deep end now.
 
And as a pure science student , I think you can always write books ?
 
In set theory, a discipline within mathematics, the aleph numbers are a sequence of numbers used to represent the cardinality (or size) of infinite sets. They are named after the symbol used to denote them, the Hebrew letter aleph (\aleph). The cardinality of the natural numbers is \aleph_0 (read aleph-naught, aleph-null, or aleph-zero), the next larger cardinality is aleph-one \aleph_1, then \aleph_2 and so on. Continuing in this manner, it is possible to define a cardinal number \aleph_\alpha for every ordinal number α, as described below. The concept goes back to Georg Cantor, who d...
 
@nonagon The infinity of the real numbers, if you believe in the continuum hypothesis
Natural numbers ("countable" infinity) are $\aleph_0$
 
What kind of books?
 
Hypothesis in maths ?
 
6:59 PM
@nonagon I think it's proven
Not sure
 
Plenty of those.
 
Ah, it's proven with the axiom of choice
 
I thought you build complex ideas from simple ones. and a complex hypothesis ?
 
@nonagon Riemann's conjecture for one
or is that not a hypothesis?
These terms are confusing
 
7:01 PM
@Gugg fixed lol
 
Riemann isn't Indian, you know.
 
@Gugg ?
 
Yes , that's not an indian name also
 
I played cricket against Reimans, from somewhere around India. :)
 
Haha, so did you win ?
 
7:03 PM
ah i see
 
Sure.
 
Were they also interested in mathematics ? The reimans?
 
Lots of mathematics in cricket. Counting, especially.
 
And Dr.Lubos here is from which university ?
Some of his posts , at least those I understood were very good .
 
Somewhere in the Czech Republic, I think?
 
7:06 PM
@ManishEarth what do you think about charge momentum question ?
@Gugg You do a job related to physics ?
 
Not to be confused with Chechnya.
 
@nonagon He spams astrology sites with astronomy
 
Everything is related to physics, is my belief.
 
who?
 
@nonagon Make it a scalar and you have the conservation of current
The closest thing to the equal-opposite bit is displacement current
 
7:09 PM
How , a comment was also there , but it is also dimensionally incorrect
 
@nonagon $q|\vec v|$ is current times a constant
More or less
If you get into drift velocity et al
 
Nerd talk. That's something you might include in your decision.
 
But for a freely moving charge (not in a metal), I think you get an equal-opposite displacement current
 
Once you become a physicist, there is some risk that you won't be able to talk with normal people.
7
But the risk is greater in math, I think.
 
@ManishEarth ?
 
7:16 PM
In electromagnetism, displacement current is a quantity appearing in Maxwell's equations that is defined in terms of the rate of change of electric displacement field. Displacement current has the units of electric current density, and it has an associated magnetic field just as actual currents do. However it is not an electric current of moving charges, but a time-varying electric field. In materials, there is also a contribution from the slight motion of charges bound in atoms, dielectric polarization. The idea was conceived by James Clerk Maxwell in his 1861 paper in connection with...
 
Tell me one thing , during your prep for JEE
Were their times when you thought , you don't remember or know anything at all ?
 
@nonagon Physics:no. Chemistry:yes
 
I have that feeling again n again after few weeks
It is irritating
n I have to study from start , as in quick read
in all 3 subjects,
how did you deal with it ?
 
@nonagon Ah. I did something that made sure that the problem never appeared:
In class, I would box important stuff. Stuff which I'm bound to forget, stuff that needs to be remembered, etc
 
No , but its like the depth of a formula vanishes from memory all of a sudden
 
7:20 PM
Periodically, I would go through the notebooks, box anything else that is important, and then go through them again
In my second pass-through, I would take a sheet of paper and copy the boxed stuff over if I still deemed it important
I would add to these sheets whenever I forgot something
 
Like I studied , Ampere's Law and was impressed by all the symmetry arguments etc , then suddenly one day that depth vanishes
 
For example, the trick of circumscribing a right angle triangle with a circle was one that I would repeatedly forget to use. Now it's ingrained in my mind :)
@nonagon Practice
 
Circumscribing a triangle ? What trick >
 
For chemistry, I kept a whole notebook (instead of sheets of paper), and wrote down the exceptions/rules/my own observations/etc
@nonagon In some geometry problems, drawing a circle around a right triangle with the hypotenuse as diameter helps a lot in simplifying the situation
 
Alright
You never feel like that in physics ? Kind of like I described ?
@ManishEarth ?
 
7:29 PM
@nonagon nope
> The fact that attraction due to gravity is proportional to the inertial nature of a body can be said to be "chance" in the classical formulism.
Anyone here disagree? I'm not entirely sure of this.
 
Means you are saying the mass in gravitational formula is different from inertial mass ?
 
Kind of
 
I read about it in Kleppner and Kolenkow and that thing seemed very plausible , rather than the other way aroung we are usually taught . That gravitational mass= inertial mass is just an experimental fact but they are completely different things
 
Yeah, more or less
 
And it is still a mystery why this happens to be true as much as we have verified using measures
But fundamentally , yes , they are two entirely different things
But they turn to be to proportional to each other linearly
 
7:36 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have access to any research papers so I can't use citations too well--but I've nearly finished my answers, ask for citations on some of my claims if you feel like it after seeing it. The graviton and the Higgs explain two separate parts of mass. Mass is not really defined just by gravity, that is a schoolboy definition. Inertia is a factor as well--and it is inertia that the Higgs explains. — Manishearth Jul 4 '12 at 11:08
 
according to our scale measurements , they have been verified to be equal to 1 part in 10^{12} , but it isn't like a mathematical thing. It is just two different things which are almost equal till now what we have measured
All this was written in that book , I am not making this up
And have you written a paper or something ?
 
@nonagon Nope
Just a freshman
 
Where are you quoting this from ?
 
But I'm going to write a paper in chemistry later
@nonagon it's a comment. click on the timestamp
 
Tell me the contents , lol
Yes , what I am saying , does that answer your question ? Because I can't make out what you're asking
But what I am saying is verified from a bankable book , I think . Kleppner and Kolenkow taught at MIT
 
7:42 PM
What question?
 
The fact that attraction due to gravity is proportional to the inertial nature of a body can be said to be "chance" in the classical formulism.

Anyone here disagree? I'm not entirely sure of this.
 
@nonagon ah
Yeah it does
 
And then your quote.
Yes then you can read about it in the book , I might have missed something . But the mass as inertia and gravitational mass(not weight) are two entirely different properties of matter , somehow proportional to each other , why ? Still a mystery . May be it got answered after the book was written .
 
Well, theoretical physics tries to explain this in part iirc
 
@nonagon in what way are rest mass and inertial mass proportional?
 
7:46 PM
@BrandonEnright We're talking about gravitational mass and inertial mass
 
Linearly , inertial mass=k*gravitational mass
 
With k set to one in our system of fundamental constants
 
k is accounted for in Gravitational constt . However this was not mentioned in the book
They simply wrote , it is verified that they are equal upto certain limits but not proven in absolute terms
 
I don't think I understand what "gravitational mass" is.
 
However , I don't know what Higgs field does
Gravitational mass is the one you put in newton's formula for gravitational force
 
7:48 PM
@BrandonEnright The m that appears in Gm_1m_2/r^2
Inertial mass is the one that appears in F=ma
 
Yes
They are two completely different things , defined differently and bear no resemblance as such
Basically the thing which led to all this is why objects with more inertia fall same way as objects with less inertia,
 
So I think the question is "Why is the "mass" that resists acceleration in F = ma the same exact quantity as the "mass" that feels gravitation in G*m1*m2 / r^2?"
 
Yes . But they aren't same . They are proportional
for example if gravitational mass was twice inertial mass , then also objects with more inertia will fall same way as objects with less inertia
 
@nonagon if I understand you, do you mean why "G" isn't 1?
 
or instead of twice, if it was 1.00000000000000000000001 times , your experiments will tell you they are same , but they needn't be
G can be made 1 w.r.t. some units
 
7:57 PM
@nonagon of course
 
But you can't resolve that 1.0000.....1 factor
 
So why can't we turn the whole question around using the results from relativity? Using F = G*m1*m2 / r^2 and F = ma and using the result from relativity that gravity == acceleration then via algebra you can show they are the same mass
 
What if it isn't proportional to inertia , but something called gravitational inertia . And that gravitational inertia is what you put in formula and it is 1.0000001 times mass inertia.
I am sorry , I don't know relativity .
 

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