The h Bar - 2015-08-29 (page 1 of 2)

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12:03 AM

@FenderLesPaul your "one sec"s last like 30 minutes

12:40 AM

I need to find a research area in physics that is blue.

12:53 AM

0

Q: How to handle questions getting buried?

While not all of my questions are the best, I often find they stay at very low views for longer periods with neither up votes nor down votes and after a while they simply get buried with no chance of every being found due to the way questions are arranged. Is there any way individuals can increas...

1:08 AM

-sigh- why is it that every time someone emails me about cool simulations it winds up in an argument about quantum mechanics?

@NeuroFuzzy why are people emailing you

@0celo7 because I have a cool website with cool pictures

1:32 AM

Well I have a website with pictures.

1:47 AM

@ACuriousMind when did you sneak in here

2:06 AM

@NeuroFuzzy ah

2:18 AM

@NeuroFuzzy link.

3:16 AM

@0B3 Some are more interesting some are less interesting and the "blog" is poor mathandcode.com/programs/index.html

@0B3 ooh this is fun too khanacademy.org/computer-programming/…

there's also a bunch of stuff with no inbound links. Like mathandcode.com/egun mathandcode.com/img mathandcode.com/img/combinedrays.gif

1 hour later…

4:40 AM

How can I calculate the parallel transport numerically?

e.g. if I have two points that are very close together and I know the metric tensor at those points

I'm thinking of something along the lines of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

But I'm not sure what the gamma means in that equation (Christoffel symbol?)

5:17 AM

@TanMath Supercomputers enlisted to shed light on photosynthesis / sciencedaily

3 hours later…

8:12 AM

Yeeesh, I'm "gone" a lot lately because it's the time between semesters and that's the time when the best parties happen :)

In completely unrelated news, a cure for hangover is welcome

0

Q: Why do we allow anonymous users to suggest edits?

Most of the anonymous suggested edits I've seen till now are something of this sort (might be my misfortune.): As far as I've seen, most SE members here are active enough and keep editing stuff that needs to be edited. Are anonymous edits useful at all?

discussion suggested-edits

8:50 AM

Welcome back master @ACuriousMind

@ACuriousMind Drink water, go back to sleep, wake up and eat fatty food (croissants work well)

The hangover is completely unrelated to the best parties?

It was a joke, presumably.

@ACuriousMind How come I wasn't invited, huh?

Don't be presumptuous with my master :P

In completely related news, john d seems to be showing up here a lot?

9:20 AM

Mornin

@Rigor News? That's been a thing for like... a month at least.

Hi Sam

Hello Daniel

10:11 AM

@Danu yep, looks like about 2 months :-)

10:34 AM

@Slereah Daniel is not my name!

@Danu Done everything, still feel like shit :P

@ACuriousMind Don't use computer screens too much on a hangover day

Alternatively, outline for me a prove that arc components = components in the locally connected case

10:49 AM

I don't know what arc components are

(and I may vanish any minute because I'm waiting for someone to pick me up)

@ACuriousMind Continuous map from $[0,1]$ that starts at $x$ and ends at $y$ means that $x,y$ are in the same arc component

It's very close to/the same as path connected

(only some authors distinguish them)

@Danu IT IS NOW

11:42 AM

Daniel is a masculine given name and a surname of Hebrew origin. It means, "God is my judge", and derives from two early Biblical figures, primary among them Daniel from the Book of Daniel. It is a common given name for males, and is also used as a surname. It is also the basis for various derived given names and surnames. == Background == The name evolved into over 100 different spellings in countries around the world. Nicknames (Dan, Danny) are common in both English and Hebrew, although in some instances "Dan" may be a complete given name rather than a nickname. The name "Daniil" (Даниил) is...

Elton John "Daniel" and a story behind it

:'(

Even if I were to be called Daniel, the pronunciation would be nothing like the American version :P

pronunciation doesn't matter on the internet, does it? :P

I'm not American

12:44 PM

i dont know if this is a proper use of chat but lets try. I have a question if anybody can answer, lets consider the QCD three point vertex, imagine i am computing the gluon two point function. While taking wick contractions, can I contract the gluon field with a derivative in the three point vertex with a gluon field without derivatives?

1 hour later…

1:54 PM

@JohnRennie although the question you linked on as a duplicate of this one does give useful info about the RN-black hole, I'm not sure if it's a duplicate.

In particular, the question at hand is based on a lack of understanding of particle physics, or something like that

2:15 PM

user image

2:52 PM

0

Q: Is it permissible to re-post another member’s unanswered question?

This question was asked nearly 24 h ago and didn’t receive an answer so far. It was downvoted 6 times, presumably because: It’s homework and the OP didn’t show any effort at working out an answer. The question was poorly formatted (mostly a screenshot of an exam/homework site). OP was also u...

2 hours later…

4:32 PM

@DanielSank Time for another argument?

I do think your comment really goes over the top, it sounds rather like you're accusing me or something seriously bad.

And I think it's really not too much of a stretch to say that an answer that states "Collapse does not happen." is probably not really mainstream (I didn't say it was totally unbelievable/ridiculous, and didn't mean to imply so either). I think such a statement is much too strong for anyone to make; the matter has simply not been settled and to pretend like it has is not something I expect a "mainstream scientist" to do.

Also, whose authority did you think I was appealing to?

Actually the answer given by Iblis also gives a good explanation why even something like MWI doesn't really do away with the non-deterministic features of QM, which again shows that the answer I called "not mainstream" was indeed overstating the case.

5:00 PM

user image

5:19 PM

Subatomic particles that appear to defy Standard Model points to undiscovered forces / IBT

6:03 PM

afternoon folks

@FenderLesPaul Good afternoon.

Can anybody with a good knowledge of topology and GR clarify something?

Light (or anything) cannot escape a BH due to the topology of spacetime. For an observer "inside" the BH (or "below" the event horizon), all conceivable directions are pointing at the center of the BH. There is no line, straight or otherwise, connecting that place with any place outside the BH. Spacetime there is like a knot, tied into itself. The fact that light cannot escape is not due to "how strong" gravity is. Gravity is just the curvature of spacetime. Inside, the curvature is so strong, it gets tied into itself. The inside is disconnected from the outside, topologically. — Florin Andrei 17 hours ago

Is the last sentence accurate - is the inside topologically disconnected from the outside?

no that's false

That would be odd, given that entrance is possible.

that entire paragraph is nonsense

it's just word salad

don't take it seriously

@vzn Thanks! however i am using a different complex and a different model.. But it is interesting!

6:13 PM

I was also puzzled by the claim that all conceivable directions point to the center (I assume he means singularity, if extended to ring singularities in rotating black holes), so I'm not surprised if that's false.

that part has some merit to it

?

what he means is that inside the black hole the radial direction becomes timelike

and timelike is always future pointing

Ohhhhh. . . That does make sense.

All future paths eventually go towards the center.

yes

although "center" is a bit misleading

6:15 PM

Singularity, then?

since $r = 0$ isn't a point in space so it isn't the center of the black hole in the usual sense

it's a surface of time

so $r = 0$ is all around you when you reach it roughly speaking

singularity is a better term yeah

@Danu I have to say I thought it was a blatant duplicate. It's asking how the virtual photons that mediate the EM force can get through the event horizon. The duplicate explains that they don't.

@TanMath what model are you using? how does it relate to the one cited? afaik/ afaict the field has standardized on a few models & there do not seem to be that many ways that photosynthesis occurs in plants, ie arent virtually all plants using a nearly identical mechanism? have heard about it in bacteria also, but is it using a common mechanism there also? would be nice to read good survey on this subj....

I note the OP has since deleted the question so they presumably agree.

@HDE226868 The interior is causally disconnected, but not topologically disconnected.

@JohnRennie Fair enough ^^

6:20 PM

@Danu Ever since I got the gold badge in the GR tag I'm pretty careful about duplicate voting.

I don't really like having the power of life and death :-)

@JohnRennie I know the feeling: Being a mod at HSM, I have to refrain from voting on anything except the absolutely obvious cases.

user54412

@HDE226868 It's a good description. Just as long as you understand "topologically" is being used in the vernacular. We're not saying the manifold is mathematically disconnected. But it is non-spacelike-path-disconnected-from-inside-to-outside, so to speak.

@Danu Fun fact: The last 5 (at least) questions that have been closed on HSM have been unilaterally closed by a mod. There have been no complaints on any of them, though, and at least one or two were in response to flags.

@JohnRennie Makes sense.

@Danu I'd find it really hard to be a mod.

I like the fact that four other people have to agree with me for anything to happen.

user54412

@JohnRennie ::eyes turn green with envy::

6:23 PM

@ChrisWhite Thanks, I think I see why.

@ChrisWhite I lie awake at night worrying about the responsibility :-)

@HDE226868 :(

It's really quite hard on small sites such as HSM

user54412

One day, maybe I'll be blessed with a silver badge in my own research.

@Danu The 6th latest one was not unilaterally closed - in fact, it was closed by five normal users. That was asked in late May and closed two days later.

Mythology is worse.

@ChrisWhite I don't see how anyone with a day job can accumulate a big rep on the Physics SE. It takes so much time!

You'll note that the only two >100k users are basically unemployed :-)

6:27 PM

@JohnRennie lololol

I do wonder what Lubos' main source of income is. Do blogs like his generate significant revenue?

Just don't tell Lubos I said that :-)

Of course, it could be that he is being paid by conservative right wing organizations to keep up the angry ranting against climate change :D

@Danu I'd star that, except that I fear to draw attention to it :-)

@JohnRennie Be bold

Actually Lubos just gave a really good answer to why the Moon doesn't look yellow.

6:30 PM

yesterday, by ACuriousMind

Aug 2 at 20:24, by HDE 226868

This room stars things waaaaaaaaay to much.

I don't think Lubos will ever come to this chatroom---unless I summon him with my omnipotent mod superpings

@HDE226868 I disagree!

2

@Danu That was after an abnormal amount of starring happened within a couple minutes. I wasn't alone, either:

Aug 2 at 20:24, by ACuriousMind

Are we trying to do morse code with the stars, or what's going on here?

I remember it happening... I think

user54412

Ok so I'm reading this and the proposed duplicate, and I'm not buying the "because the Moon is dim" arguments.

user54412

Has anyone ever looked at the full Moon? It's really bright. You can easily read a book from it's light.

6:44 PM

Have you compared it to the sun, though? :P

@Danu I think that "mainstreamness" is not a particularly useful criterion against which we should measure questions on this site. It is, by construction, appeal to whatever authority is implied by whatever group of people constitute said main stream.

@0celo7 Goats are awesome!

@Danu I did not say that it was incorrect to label the statements in that post as mainstream. I just don't think mainstream-ness has anything to do with quality of a scientific question.

Certainly in practice there are questions based off of non mainstream ideas which are also really bad questions. However, I think we can keep quality and mainstreamness separated in our minds, and more importantly in our site rules.

@DanielSank Sure, but within the context of this site you'll have to accept that "non-mainstream" is one of the "often-used terms", as witnessed by its incorporation in one of the main VTC reasons.

@Danu No, I don't have to accept that.

@DanielSank Okay, then I guess you should start a meta debate about it. I do accept it.

I recognize that it's the case and I believe it is an expected behavior for this site that I voice an opinion that it's not a good practice.

6:53 PM

Yup, see previous comment

@Danu Yup.

Gosh, it's nice to argue with you again :)

@Danu Did we argue?

Slightly

@Danu No we didn't. You're wrong.

6:54 PM

I was a little upset about your comment. I think it's too strong and sounds too much like an accusation, but that's mostly a question of tone.

@DanielSank :D

...and tone is a subtle issue on the internet.

@Danu Finding comment...

In the chat, a comment like that would've been 100% fine by me---just not so much on the main site.

@Danu I really dislike this idea of "mainstream". It implies a certain appeal to authority which has no place in science. — DanielSank 3 hours ago

@Danu I put it on the main site for a very specific reason:

When I look at questions/answers/comments about confusing topics, one of the things I always think about is how young me (as a stand-in for a typical student), would interpret said question/answer/comment.

7 hours ago, by skill patrol

pronunciation doesn't matter on the internet, does it? :P

@ChrisWhite I do find the linked page that shows the spectrum of the sun to be good supportive evidence.

6:58 PM

For example, this is why I'm vocal on the main site about issues like "setting hbar to 1". That's a topic that confused me and continues to confuse students all the time.

3 mins ago, by Danu

...and tone is a subtle issue on the internet.

@DanielSank indeed

So, when I saw the mention of "mainstreamness", I chose to call it out on the main site so that students (or really anyone still learning how science works) would see that there are card-carrying scientists who do not thing that mainstream-ness is an important criterion for a good science question.

@DanielSank Hehehe, I used to have so much trouble getting my head around different units: I couldn't believe it was consistent once everything is set to 1

@DanielSank "Hurr durr you're not a real scientist, you work for Google hurr durr"

(couldn't resist)

But sure, fair enough. You can make your point in public :)

@Danu Should I call you "childish" and other such things as you have done in the past to me?

Hurr durr.

7:00 PM

@0celo7 how was the pizza social?

@Rigor Very nice

@DanielSank Hurrrmejurrr

met a professor, won an argument

@Danu Is that Dutch?

Hey, Ocelot = social?! NICE! :D

@DanielSank no, lol

Ohh, a call from the Greek one :D

brb

user54412

7:02 PM

annav is calling @Danu? o.O

O.o

@Danu You fabulous bastard.

@ChrisWhite Nah, dude. He's got a different one. From the islands.

Is Annav Greek?

yes

user54412

@DanielSank very much so

@Rigor the NE dept. has a lounge

7:07 PM

@ChrisWhite Didn't know that. Quite a multinational cast we have here.

WTF, @0celo7?

Hey, @ChrisWhite, how did you come up with that expression when I was asking that probability question a while back?

user54412

back soon. Going swimming the only costless pleasure left in Greece. — anna v yesterday

user54412

@DanielSank sounds like a siren then... :p

user54412

@DanielSank With the right diagram, anything is possible. Since the possible states of the buckets are integer pairs $(n,m)$, $0 \leq n,m < N$, I imagined an NxN lattice of points.

user54412

Start in the lower left, and each turn move up 1 unit with probability p, or right 1 unit with probability 1-p.

user54412

Game terminates on either the upper row or the right row.

7:11 PM

Correct.

Interesting.

user54412

For a given termination point, just sum up the ways to get there. Since we can't move backwards, this is just binomial.

"With the right diagram, anything is possible"
^ Words to live by.

@ChrisWhite ::reaches for paper and pen::

Is there a mathjax link other than the one in the meta? The ucla page seems to be down.

user54412

not that I know of

@0celo7 greetings

@ChrisWhite still not seeing how to count all the paths which end at a particular point.

Oh, wait, I get it.

Ha, it's so obvious now. Thanks!

7:15 PM

@FenderLesPaul that was quite a long "second" :P

@0celo7 as I've said over, and over...

Online chat is an asychronous communication protocol.

@DanielSank last night we were going to chat over some GR exercises

he said brb in a sec

and just now came back

@0celo7 Yep.

asynchronous

Hey, @Danu, tell your Greek γιασου from us.

@DanielSank chat as in Skype

@0celo7 Ah.

7:20 PM

@DanielSank you love that word

@0celo7 I do?

user54412

Hi @dmckee

user54412

By the way, nitpicking your comment. Even the visuals had to make sacrifices in order to be in line with people's expectations.

user54412

Most notably, there was no Doppler shifting or beaming.

user54412

In reality, you would only see the approaching side of the disk. But a lopsided, gravitationally lensed accretion disk is a bit much to digest.

7:25 PM

@ChrisWhite Err ... I see. I've really only read the "for public consumption" stuff, and that sounds much like a details that would be left out.

FSM knows I'm bored of "I watched Interstellar and..." questions, too.

user54412

Well, there's always "I was thinking about reality and..." or "I heard <famous person> say..." questions to keep you busy ;)

@ChrisWhite perhaps...

@DanielSank mmmm so nice

@Danu Couldn't have been that nice. You're back online ;)

@DanielSank I only saw this now... next time! :)

@DanielSank It was only a call... I'm still in Amsterdam, she's in Munich

@Danu Too bad.

7:31 PM

...and it was her work break.

@0celo7 I fell asleep I thought I was just going to take a quick nap

:(

sorry

Awh man, only 4 more days till I'll see her again :3

Can't waaaait

see who?

@FenderLesPaul His Greek.

what does that mean o.o

7:40 PM

It's sooooo tiring to have to deal with the non-hardcore segment of the h bar customers ;)

Sorry m8

We hardcore and we know the score

@FenderLesPaul It means he has a Greek associate of a sex he finds attractive. The rest is rather obvious.

oh

alright then

Yes.

I suspect that most of us lost the will to live within the first few paragraphs. I wonder if you'd get a more entusiastic response on the Electronics Stack Exchange. — John Rennie 14 hours ago

2

7:46 PM

That was a bit harsh, although I laughed quite a bit. ^

@ACuriousMind Thats... amazing

> Ok, I admit I don't have a degree in physics and I'm not well versed in a lot of calculus formulas and sometimes I don't understand formulas when I see them so I usually skip over them, yes I know they are important and it's the math that is needed, but I just don't get it and I don't have the time to take 5 years of calculus and algebra to begin to figure it out and understand it.

It describes my feeling after trying to read the question exactly :P

@Danu what the $*@&, dude?

Sounds like some of the pre-med students I have to tutor

7:48 PM

You got upset at me for my comment about mainstream, but you're comfortable not only glorifying JohnRennie's comment in chat, but also on the public site?

@DanielSank I just deleted it, realizing it was not appropriate (before seeing your messages)

But man that was so funny

@vzn the lindblad equation...

@DanielSank how would you build a multichromophoric system?

@DanielSank Also hey, I'm comfortable admitting that I can be a hypocrite at times

with 7 chromophores...

the best equation is cDonald's theorem

user image

7:49 PM

^ wat?

@DanielSank Also, I think you're overreacting a bit :P

@DanielSank vimeo.com/13497928

@Slereah tl;dw?

You should

It's pretty good

@Danu I was just trying to point out the inconsistency in your judgement.

7:52 PM

You would learn that maths is short for "Mathematical Anti Telharsic Harfatum Septomin"

@DanielSank ...in a tone that was a little too strong, IMO. Then again, who gives a $#%&? :)

@DanielSank have you done such things before?

user54412

I like to imagine Danu's self-censoring is really him swearing in Dutch so profane it can't be expressed in English.

5

@Slereah Ain't nobody got time for that.

You always got time to learn

7:54 PM

@ChrisWhite The problem is that Dutch swearing is kind of... weak.

Their curses center around telling people to go get sick with various cancers and other afflictions.

@DanielSank HAHAHAHAHAHA

AGGRESSIVE LAUGHTER INTENSIFIES

@ChrisWhite they pale in comparison with, say, the Russians.

It's amusing, because while the language and mood of the person uttering the swears sounds harsh to the English speaker's ear, the content is so disappointingly devoid of intensity.

@DanielSank Nice try, Russian language promotor

@Danu *aggressive

@ACuriousMind What is this, Germany?

Ain't nobody got time for correct spelling

jk ninja edit incoming

7:57 PM

@Danu Dude, Russian cursing is the best cursing.

@DanielSank Refer to the above :P

@Danu It's true. I have a whole guidebook on it.

This reminds me of that scene from Clerks

My favorite curse is a Balkan curse

It translates to "I hope to see your house on CNN"

@Slereah Let's hear it!

@Slereah hahahaha I like it.

7:58 PM

Pretty harsh!

What I can agree to is that Dutch cursing is quite devoid of humor (which Russian cursing has a lot of)

There's an interesting Irish curse that translates to

"May the lamb of God stir his hoof through the roof of heaven and kick you in the arse down to hell."

Neat.

See also

"May the curse of Mary Malone and her nine blind illegitimate children chase you so far over the Hills of Damnation that the Lord himself can't find you with a telescope."

The religious ones are the angriest, it seems.

...who's Mary Malone?

8:01 PM

And the most creative.

Yeah, who's Mary Malone?

back in the ancient world, people did something called

CURSE TABLETS

Also the most common in Ireland, a traditionally strongly Catholic nation.

GRRR. Why does everyone think Interstellar is some sort of documentary?! It is nothing of the sort, nor did it ever claim to be. The movie was meant to entertain. It was meant to explore the human condition, specifically its relation with science. It was not meant to provide any scientific facts, and indeed there was no hard science to be found in it. If you're looking for scientific interpretation, then you have completely missed what the director was trying to convey. — Chris White 3 hours ago

They wrote down horrible curses on tablets, in the hope that the gods would carry them out

8:02 PM

@ChrisWhite <3

@Danu Any particularly funny ones you know of?

They were pretty fucking harsh

Obligatory reference from ancient times: Catullus' Carmen 16

@ACuriousMind No idea. I thought it could be a reference to Molly Malone, but I'm not sure.

not really a curse tablet, just a smutty poem :p

8:04 PM

@DanielSank I said devoid of humor :P

...but let me think

@Danu I meant: do you know any particularly funny Russian ones.

taalkabaal.nl/scheldwoorden/indexa.php

That's just the letter A

Here's an actual curse tablet :

"Lady Nemesis, I give thee a cloak and a pair of boots; let him who wore them not redeem them except with his life and blood."

By the way, the most horrible curse I've ever read was presumably from Hindi. I will not type it here. If anyone's interested look up Hindi curses involving mangos.

"Biccus gives Mercury whatever he has lost (that the thief), whether man or male (sic), may not urinate nor defecate nor speak nor sleep nor stay awake nor [have] well-being or health, unless he bring (it) in the temple of Mercury; nor gain consciousness (sic) of (it) unless with my intervention."

8:06 PM

@Slereah Yikes.

"nor sleep nor stay awake"? What's the alternative?

@DanielSank Not easy to find online. Link for the lazy, pliz

Perhaps he's in a superposition of states, like Schrodinger's cat: "Schrodinger's cursed thief"

DEATH

@Danu

control F within

8:09 PM

@DanielSank Neat.

@Danu you found the Hindi one?

To learn more about curse tablets, you can ask these talking dinosaurs

qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2866

...why a mango tree, especially? :D

@DanielSank Yes, yes.

@ACuriousMind Because they're appropriately delicious

I hate mango

8:11 PM

@Danu I've never read a more offensive sentence as that in my life.

@ACuriousMind Oh, you poor, confused creature.

@ACuriousMind That's cause you are a terrible person.

Uh-oh...Danu and DanielSank agree on something, shit just got real

@ACuriousMind Read upwards a bit.

You'll see the real deal.

Shit already got real, then turned fake again

@Slereah we had to do one of those in Latin class once

8:15 PM

Gotta go, guys!

are you cursed now

Have a good morning/afternoon/evening/night

It is quite amusing to think that curses were not reserved for traitors and regicides

Sometimes it was just because someone stole your cow

though I wonder how common those were

Did only people who could write do them

Or did illiterate people ask others to do them for thel

@DanielSank oh god that's amazing

@Slereah I bet there was an entire trade of scribes writing these for people

8:18 PM

BRING THE WRATH OF THE GODS ON YOUR ENEMIES ONLY ONE COIN

2

He he. Someone asked a question that goes right to stuff I know about. ::giggles and bounces up and down like a school girl in some anime show::

8:30 PM

@dmckee ..."goes write to stuff"?

Er ... "right to stuff".

Ahhhh

mod powers...

Because English is my native tongue, but I type terribly.

hmm, or maybe you're a spy

and you're gonna steal all the lasers

8:33 PM

@0celo7 Well, my mad science lab is looking a bit bare just now.

@dmckee because you gave everything to the Russians already

D:

@0celo7 The whole page or that one curse?

"time as consequence of hadronics"

I'm afraid to read it

@Slereah It's a personal theory.

I am even more afraid

8:46 PM

@DanielSank don't recall

I just remember going a project on them

so it was probably longer than just the curse

Wait . . . wait . . . there's a question in there:

> Doing so suggest to me wondering whether «dark-matter» would have a time-base in the sense we can observe in tangible matter.

@0celo7 I don't understand. You responded to my link to reddit by saying it's amazing.

Were you saying the linked page is amazing or one particular element withing said page?

Hey, anyone here good with python/numpy?

@DanielSank uhh

oh, miscommunication

I thought you were responding to my Latin curse tablet thing

the whole page is amazing

@0celo7 Ah, indeed it is.

user54412

@DanielSank maybe

8:53 PM

@ChrisWhite Is there a way to give a 2D ndarray names for the rows and columns?

Using structured arrays it seems possible to give names to just the rows.

user54412

@DanielSank now that's an interesting request

@ChrisWhite Thanks! I thought of it myself.

user54412

can you make a dict whose entries are appropriate slices into the array?

Not sure what you mean.

(btw, before spending too much time on this, I should note that pandas has a class to do roughly this, so I guess it's not possibly in vanilla numpy, but I thought I'd check).

Also, the pandas DataFrame class has some really odd quirks that I just don't like.

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