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12:19 AM
@Danu Which part do you think is not a bad thing? (And no offense taken)
 
12:37 AM
@KyleKanos It being hard to get guns - in general.
 
12:56 AM
Except the problem is that it's too easy for criminals to get guns and very hard for law-abiding citizens to get guns
 
1:38 AM
11
Q: Answering homework questions and downvoting

AlanI just saw this thread: Parallel tangents and curves and there were discussions in it on whether or not it was appropriate to downvote an answer which was fully worked out for a questioner who seemed to do no more than post a homework question without thought/etc. I'm new here and don't have a h...

interesting...
 
 
2 hours later…
user54412
3:59 AM
@KyleKanos I think the greatest regret I had growing up in NJ was that anything remotely resembling gunpowder was banned. Everyone I knew in other states got to grow up with fireworks and rockets.
 
10:59 AM
Hello void! Talk about a delayed response (to the chat 3 days ago), here I go...
@Danu said near the end of the last chat: "Really? You don't believe in things like Hawking radiation, etc?"
Yes, I most certainly do believe in Hawking radiation, though I think his last almost-paper puts some pretty weird twists on exactly how it works.
But why would you think Hawking radiation to be a long-range quantum effect anyway?
The whole point of Hawking's mass-temperature relationship is that the event horizon has to be very, very thin for the radiation event to take place.
Dirac's point was something else entirely, which I'll presume to summarize this absurdly oversimplified way: The more curved the space, the more compact the wave function.
So, what I was asserting is this: Entanglement in practice, as it plays out in real experiments using real classical events as the bookmarkers that make it detectable and subject to analysis, is a phenomenon of flat space.
Entanglement of course still exists in curved space, but the probability of decoherence versus the interval increases dramatically as the space becomes more highly curved.
Hi @Omen... I'm busy talking to the past here... :)
 
11:16 AM
sheesh advertisers remind me of a rabies filled mongrel dog getting dementedly excited about rubbish - if an ad gets my attention, i refuse to buy the product they are slobbering about
@TerryBollinger hi! how are you?
 
Heh! Well, apart from sudden unexpected images of advertisers as rabid mongrel dogs (been there, thought that, especially when marketeers won't let me do obvious things like delete something just so they can plug their wares), I'm fine!
How are you? Don't think I've met you before.
 
I am relatively new here - I am doing well
just got word that I have been accepted for publication (paper 8)
just been dipping my toes into answering questions
 
Congrats!
 
Congrats @omen, that's great news!
Hi @Danu, didn't really expect to see you, just didn't want to ignore your final point. (Or more likely I just wanted to yap more, this time to an empty stage... :)
 
11:32 AM
@TerryBollinger thanks for the answer ;)
 
@omen, may we ask the topic of "paper 8"?
 
So...what do you think of semiclassical calculations?
 
Well, to be honest I think that classical is just an interestingly simplified limit of an underlying reality that is entirely quantum. So as long as you recognize classical as inherently an oversimplification of reality, I'm fine with mixing.
 
@TerryBollinger yes, it is to do with UV spectroscopy detection
 
@Omen, cool, extreme UV or more moderate ranges? Thinks get hairy up there...
 
11:41 AM
@TerryBollinger moderate range - mainly around UVA II (320-340nm)
what is your research/interests?
 
12:41 PM
Sort of from the other direction: I've been tracking the extreme UV debate in semiconductor lithography for years, and the challenges there both in generating and handling the EUV are... interesting to say the least. The current mantra is "this really is the end of Moore's Law (of semiconductor density going up exponentially).
Actually signing off now, work calls!
 
@TerryBollinger definitely like to discuss this further with you sometime! Have a great day!
 
Jim
1:39 PM
Yay! Finally, first gold badge. Today I become a SE physicist
 
Which badge?
 
Jim
electorate. Nothing special but it makes my user id look shinier
 
I remember getting that one
I spent 3 days of 40 votes to get it quicker
Had to go back through really old posts to do it
Next one you've got to get: Fanatic
 
Jim
No chance, it took me forever to get enthusiast. I'll get to 20-something days then forget on a Sunday or something
 
Have you a smartphone?
 
Jim
1:47 PM
I got up to 55 I think after enthusiast then went on holiday and it just slipped my mind.
Yeah, but same problem. You don't log in if you forget
I guess I'm really not a fanatic
 
Laaaaaaaaame
:D
 
Jim
and it's not like it's hard either. All you have to do is refresh the user profile page once a day
 
do you open your computer up every day?
 
Jim
I have a different computer at home and at work (like most people). The one at work it's always open on, so that not a problem
It's the one at home. I'll try to keep the browser open to it, but power outages, updates, etc are terrible. All it takes is one busy Saturday or one weekend away from home and all those days are wasted
No, the next gold for me is steward
Unless I give a really good answer
 
2:02 PM
A really good answer?
Like a 100+ vote answer?
 
Jim
Sure, I also have one really close to getting populist
Well, six votes off. But all I need to do is get the question re-opened. It was closed as a duplicate (pretty close to being one too), but it differed in a key way that I only care about because it's so close to populist.
Shut up, I can be petty and selfish if I want to
 
Which question?
 
Jim
7
Q: Rocky Planet in the center of System

user45974We all know that mostly stars are at the center of planetary systems, but is it possible that instead of star there was a rocky planet in the center with stars (and other planets and moons) orbiting it? To be more concrete: Is it possible for a star to have the same mass and radius as e.g. the M...

 
Jim
2:32 PM
@KyleKanos thanks!
 
2:43 PM
@Jim For what? ;)
This guy on twitch is going to stream for about 32 hours straight. He's in the middle of Final Fantasy 7 100% (runs it in about 15 hours, currently at 4.5 hour mark) and then will play Final Fantasy 8 100%
Done
 
Jim
;-)
 
I don't pay attention for a few minutes to this room and there's been a whole secret conversation going on?!
 
Jim
I have no idea what you're talking about
 
I thought so. I guess you don't see any removed messages either? ;)
 
Jim
You're seeing removed messages? I'm no doctor, but I think they have pills to fix that
 
2:53 PM
Ah, I must have forgotten to take mine this morning. Would explain the pink elephant right outside my window, too.
 
Jim
No, that's usually the result of taking too many pills
 
Also possible. I would try to count how many pills I have left, but they've flown out of their storage and are hiding around the room, little buggers
 
 
1 hour later…
4:04 PM
-1
Q: Sanction for answering a homework question

John RennieOne of the problems with homework questions is that they often get an answer before the question can be closed. So the vile perpetrator gets the answer they want, and the subsequent downvotes don't hurt them because their rep is probably already just 1 and they may not be planning to come back an...

 
 
1 hour later…
5:20 PM
Lol:
Ī replaced author’s “2s1” with “1s²”. Please, take no offence because a mistake and a fix are obvious for an expert. — Incnis Mrsi 11 mins ago
 
5:33 PM
@Omen, yes, let's talk more later. Real stretch of physics, EUV for lithography, the method is more than a bit like sort of like surfing a very prickly wave to get max height. I think everyone's sort of given up on soft X-ray, though, so there are not many options left to keep those cell phones on their path to become smarter than their users... :)
 
5:56 PM
@ACuriousMind, back on the Wed chat you said: "Why would you say such a thing? Entanglement is a direct consequence of the fact that the Cartesian product embeds into the tensor product, but that this embedding is not surjective, i.e. that there are states in the product space that do not come from a tuple of one-particle states."
I absolutely love that one! It is so precise and well-stated, and resolves the issue in such a firm and clear fashion.
Alas, because my day job these days is all about cognitive science and how to make computers really think like people, what I instead see when I read that is a very precise simulation program -- math truly being the ultimate form of programming if not executed too sloppily and informally in often very self-forgiving wetware -- whose links to external (experimental) reality have become a bit too subtle to recognize immediately from within the context of the program itself.
 
Jim
Yeah! Average answer score of 4.602! Take that @KyleKanos with your 3.398 average. Can you say meaningless competition advantage?
 
Where's that computed?
 
[hmm, does SE chat have a side room capability? My apologies all!]But that is the kind of formalism we need!
 
BRB...gotta downvote some ;)
 
Jim
6:08 PM
Nooooo! What about Terry? He's got the 4.779
 
I've got a fair few 0 vote answers
 
Er, is that good or bad? I don't even bother to figure out why I have silvers and no golds, I'm not a physicist and don't pretend to be (I hope!)
 
The 4.779 is the average number of upvotes you have on your answers
 
Jim
I just got my first gold today for voting on questions. a 4.7 average answer score is really good
 
So that's pretty good, in my books
 
Jim
6:10 PM
Sure if you have a 3.4.... (or a 4.6)
 
Sounds too high for me, do I really deserve that?
 
Jim
apparently you do
145 answers with a 4.77 average. That's pretty firm stats
 
I've got 261 answers with 3.3 average votes
 
I try to be careful, but also never, every to give "just" the answer, not if it won't be understood.
Well, it's nice to realize, I never even noticed it before.
Er... How do I get golds? Is that some kind of nose-to-the-grindstone marathon thing?
 
Jim
Look at DavidZ, wow. 636 answers with a 5.387 average
As for golds, luck or nose to grindstone
Also vote on lots of questions. That's an easy way
 
6:14 PM
@TerryBollinger There's a few easy ones: doling out 600 votes is probably easiest
Another easy one is visiting the site for 100 consecutive days
 
Jim
Or asking a highly upvoted question like "how many cups of coffee could superman drink in an hour?"
 
Hmm, used to do more question voting... really, just 600? And I must have missed a day or two, I was pretty solid every day at first.
 
Asking a question with 10k views gets a gold
A question or answer with 100 net upvotes gets a gold badge too
 
Jim
just look at the badges page
 
I was a bit miffed that my most popular answer stopped 4 votes short of 100, thus dangling the great answer badge right in front of me ;)
 
Jim
6:16 PM
which answer?
 
Editing 500 posts is pretty easy
 
Jim
Says you
 
Though only 7 of us actually got it
 
Jim
I'm sitting pretty at 72 still
 
Hey, @ACuriousMind, which one? I like your answers a lot, would likely upvote it.
 
6:17 PM
96
A: Why doesn't matter pass through other matter if atoms are 99.999% empty space?

ACuriousMindThings are not empty space. Our classical intuition fails at the quantum level. Matter does not pass through other matter mainly due to the Pauli exclusion principle and due to the electromagnetic repulsion of the electrons. The closer you bring two atoms, i.e. the more the areas of non-zero exp...

 
Jim
Oh, I just took a look at your profile. It's the highest upvoted one after all
 
Drat! Already upvoted it some time ago.
 
Easy way to get those last few: make an edit
 
Jim
Yup
 
Bumps it back to front page, some newbies might catch it and vote
 
6:18 PM
@TerryBollinger Haha...well, then at least I know your vote didn't come from me asking for it ;)
Yes, of course, but I dislike bumping my own contribution without major cause
 
I'm 37 short:
63
A: Why are rockets so big?

Kyle KanosThe problem is what Konstantin Tsiolkovsky discovered 100 years ago: as speed increases, the mass required (in fuel) increases exponentially. This relation, specifically, is $$ \Delta v=v_e\ln\left(\frac{m_i}{m_f}\right) $$ where $v_e$ is the exhaust velocity, $m_i$ the initial mass and $m_f$ the...

 
Jim
@ACuriousMind Thats cause you never asked
@KyleKanos lol
 
It would not have anyway, trust me.
 
Jim
Can't help you with that
I'm 31 short
69
A: What technology can result from such expensive experiment as undertaken in CERN?

JimThe truth is we don't know. But when you think about it, how can we know? If we knew what technology would eventually come out of experiments like this, why would we not build that technology now? Large expensive machines like the CERN super-collider help us to further understand that laws of na...

 
Hey hey, I got 2 fresh votes
Thanks guys ;D
 
Jim
6:20 PM
For what ;-)
 
@KyleKanos, very nice! Excellent quick summary of the critical math with some nice history, and not too long. You are one closer/1
 
Asad went through a bit more rigorous an analysis and came to the same conclusion as me:
23
A: Why are rockets so big?

AsadTL;DR: This answer arrives at roughly the same conclusion as Kyle Kanos', i.e. in addition to payload considerations, the difficulty lies in stuffing a small rocket with a mass of fuel exceeding to the mass of the rocket itself. This answer, however, is more rigorous in how the $\Delta v$ budget ...

 
Jim
As I posted earlier today though, I'm only 5 away from a populist badge. Seems more likely than an extra 31 on my other answer
 
I'm nowhere near a populist badge
 
@Jim, you got my +1 on that for the Faraday history and context remark. It is almost a rule of science history that anticipation of future impacts is insanely incorrect. I had never though of CERN quite that way; you made me rethink it a bit, hmm...
 
Jim
6:25 PM
That's the standard type of response I give anyone who asks what technologies we'll have in the future
But thanks :)
Already hit the rep cap earlier today though
 
Hah, with regards to the Meta post about giving rep for comments, there's no way I should get credit for this:
@horatio: surely you mean towelKyle Kanos Oct 9 '13 at 16:40
 
@TerryBollinger You can create a room, for example, by going to the chat profile of the user you want to talk with - there's a button "Start a room with this user" there. Or you go to chat.stackexchanged.com and click "Create a new room"
 
Actually, I'm also 5 votes away from the populist:
15
A: Is darkness really light?

Kyle KanosThe electromagnetic spectrum covers a wide range of values: (source) What we see is visible light (just right of the middle of the page), which is a very small section of the spectrum. If the light source emits brightly in the infrared, our eyes will not be able to see it. As an example, consi...

Wait, make that 8 votes. The accepted answer needs 10 and currently has 7
 
Before my current AI-ish work (which is a lot more fun, and my last job was already hugely enjoyable), I worked with some top venture capitalists on future technology anticipation issues. Good VCs understand like no one else how incredibly hard estimation of future impacts are beyond, say, a year or two out.
 
Jim
Nah, you have to have at least 23 votes
And accepted has to have at least 11
 
6:28 PM
Just by the title... that's an odd question!
 
@Jim Hmm. I thought it could be 10 & 20
 
Jim
more than twice the accepted answer, which has more than ten votes
 
Hmm
I suppose reading it that way...
 
Jim
my question's accepted answer is sitting at 10, I haven't upvoted it yet. I'm at 17. If I hit 23 or get populist first, I'll upvote accepted
 
My gaining the populist badge is already only dependent on the accepted answer in the question getting two (three if it needs 11) more votes here. (And yes, I've already voted for it myself, it's not a bad answer at all)
 
6:31 PM
23
Q: Clarify the Populist badge description

Inbar RoseI noticed there are quite a few questions about the Populist badge. Some people are confused about its purpose, or upset about its existence, yet others simply wonder why they didn't get theirs. I just want to change the Populist Badge's description from: Highest scoring answer that outscore...

Definitely 11 & 23
 
We can vote for ourselves? I think I missed that...
 
Nah
I mean, I've already voted for the accepted answer
(which is not mine)
 
@TerryBollinger Only if you create a second account and upvote....
But that's not really allowed
 
@KyleKanos More like forbidden, eh? ;)
 
@ACuriousMind same thing
 
6:34 PM
It's seems a bit unsporting at a minimum, sock puppets are not popular anywhere I know of...
 
"not really allowed" makes me think of looks of stern disapproval. "forbidden" makes me think of being banned
So, yeah, you might argue that the two words mean the same on a purely logical level, but the implied degree of severity of the transgression is quite different (to me, at least)
 
Whoa...I love it when science works
 
Jim
Either way, I feel dirty when I think someone else is serial upvoting me because I was nice to them once. Serial upvoting yourself is just not cool
 
Nice talking to everyone, must get going. Final thought for the day: What if both math and physics are ultimately just rules that approximate limits that don't actually exist? You know, you can postulate point particles, but not see them "for real".
 
6:37 PM
That's a pseudocolor plot of magnetic pressure
 
Jim
@TerryBollinger not with that attitude
 
That's a pseudocolor plot of magnetic pressure when cosmic ray acceleration is accounted for
 
@TerryBollinger Of physics, I've always thought that way. But math is not approximate, it is the only discipline that actually has undoubtedly true and false statements.
@KyleKanos Magnetic pressure of what? A star?
 
Jim
False
 
@Jim To what is that a reply?
 
Jim
6:46 PM
To Math being the only one with true and false statements
 
@ACuriousMind Supernova remnant
 
Name one undoubtedly true statement that is not math. (And not "I exist", granted.)
 
Jim
A word that is being used as a noun is not being used as a verb at the same time.
 
@ACuriousMind Black is not white
 
Hmmmmm
 
6:51 PM
Defeated!
 
Jim
A conditional proof has an antecedent and a consequence
A logical statement is either true or false
 
Horray for Booleans
 
Is logic seperate from math for you?
 
Jim
It is when done in philosophy
 
Logic is done in philosophy & mathematics
 
Jim
6:53 PM
Or one could say that in any discipline, you can make tautologies
a fact is a fact
That's a necessarily true statement
a musical instrument is an instrument of music
 
A knife is used to cuts things
 
Yeeees, I get it :D
 
You are wrong, hah-hah-ha-ha-hah!
 
Jim
But originally, I was making a joke. You said math is the only thing with definite true and false statements. So I said false in a definite way
Yay science nerds!
 
I still feel that there is someway to express the difference between mathematical truth and other "ways of knowing", but need to work a bit harder to exclude the tautologies.
 
Jim
6:57 PM
math is a fancy way of speaking in tautologies
1=1
 
Yes, that may be a problem :D
 
Jim
1+1=1+1 thus 1+1=2
 
Ahhh, but what are 1 and 2? That's not real math ;)
 
Jim
arithmetic isn't real math?
 
Yes and no - the very definition of the symbol 2 is to be 1+1, so you have done nothing but redefining the RHS of your equation
 
Jim
7:00 PM
exactly, it's still a tautology
 
Yes, that's why no mathematician proves 1+1=2, but defines.
 
Jim
the rest of math gets more complicated, but it's all just trying to find ways of saying a necessarily true statement
 
I...don't disagree
 
Jim
Ya, and if a math statement isn't true, we say it isn't math
 
And yet, there is something to showing that two differently defined objects A and B are really the same that feels different from the trivial tautologies you may encounter anywhere else
 
Jim
7:03 PM
example. x+1=6 means x=2
That's not math, it's wrong
 
Perhaps math is just the art of thinking about stuff that is so complex that the tautologies do not appear trivial anymore.
 
Jim
now you've got it
You grab an equation and define RHS=LHS. Then you do the same things to both sides of the equation, maybe sub in another tautology, but essentially you define something then say "and if I do the same thing to each side, they still equal" <-- tautology. But it's more understandable in the end
 
For concrete stuff, like solving equations, you are surely right. I'm trying to see this in the more abstract algebraic things now
 
Jim
such as?
 
For example, you define the prime ideal in a ring without any reference to what will happen if you take the quotient. And what you find is that the quotient ring will not have zero divisors. Of course, the proof proceeds essentially by applying one tautology after the other.
 
Jim
7:17 PM
so you define something, apply tautologies, and find an understandable result. In other words, you've used tautologies to change one tautology into another
 
I think I just now understand what the lecturer always meant when he said all we were doing was "unpacking the definitions". I always thought he only meant the style in which such proofs usually proceed, but it is also an apt statement about mathematics as such
 
Jim
yup. You define something and then apply true statements to see what that definition actually means
 
WTF....why is my close queue unavailable?
I've gone through 20, it now says "Come back in 4 hours"
 
No more close votes?
Perhaps you have cast 4 votes not from the queue?
 
I've got 2 left
I'm able to close from not-the-queue
 
7:28 PM
Hm, me too
 
But that's just dumb
 
And I'm not allowed back in either
 
What's the point of letting me VTC 24 questions but disabling me from using 4 of them
 
Jim
Look on mother meta?
 
9
Q: How come my vote cap for "First Posts" is lower than others?

LittleBobbyTablesI was reviewing First Posts just now, and I received the following message after my 20th vote: Thank you for reviewing 20 First Posts today; come back in 8 hours to continue reviewing. I see other users, with far lower reputation than me, voting up to 40 times per day. Why is it I only hav...

25
Q: Thank you for reviewing 20 close votes today!

cVplZSo I did what I thought was my 40 reviews in the Close Vote Review Queue today. However, when I went to see about reviewing other queues, I noticed the message for the Close Votes said, "Thank you for reviewing 20 close votes today" instead of saying the normal 40. I went and counted my close vot...

It's by design, though I see no design reason.
 
7:31 PM
I'm 95% sure I've used 24 votes in the queue before
 
@KyleKanos Based on the mother meta posts, I'm 99% sure there were either 1k questions awaiting closing or you're wrong :P
 
You're wrong
 
Jim
@KyleKanos you're still #2 in that queue by a wide margin. 2 extra votes won't make a difference
 
Lol
That's not what I'm going for though
 
Jim
#1 today?
 
7:42 PM
Nope
Cleanliness
 
Jim
??
 
We need to purge bad questions away
 
Jim
you can still use votes outside the queue
 
I don't know
I'm just making crap up
 
Jim
oh, well in that case, carry on
 
7:48 PM
I wonder if that was on purpose: 255 == FF and the maximum hit % a character in the Final Fantasy series can hit is 255%.....
 
Jim
It was originally in Japanese, so no, I don't think it was on purpose
 
@KyleKanos Probably its just that 255 is the overflow for the bytes in which that percentage is stored
Or, the one byte, rather :D
 
@Jim Final Fantasy $\to$ Fainaru Fantajī
Double F's there too
 
Jim
Japanese characters
 
ファイナルファンタジ
 
Jim
7:50 PM
no F's there
 
Two フ's there too
 
Jim
ya 77 is not equal to 255
 
And what programming language, in the mid-1990's, accepted Japanese characters?
Fortran & C/C++ still don't
(Though no one would program a game in Fortran)
 
Jim
not with that attitude
 
I mean, it could be done, but you'd be interfacing with C/C++ for all of the graphics aspect, why not just build it straight from C/C++?
 
Jim
7:53 PM
for the challenge?
 
Hmm
I might have to consider taking that challenge
At some point
Not now
Science is getting done here
 
Jim
or just write a game in machine code
 
Been done already
 
Jim
roller coaster tycoon ftw
 
I think it was Roller Coaster Tycoon or something like that was written in Assembly
Damn, scooped again
And I'm spent
 

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