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Rory Alsop

12:10 AM

just realised looking at meta.travel.stackexchange.com/questions/4318/… that @cnst hasn't responded yet

pnuts

Apparently does not disqualify (technically) however.

Rory Alsop

I superpinged him as I would be interested in his answers :-)

oh - just realised I'm in You Are Here and not the Mod Chat - sorry. Hazard of too many chat tabs open

chx

1:01 AM

@MarkMayo flyertalk.com/forum/korean-air-skypass/… I escalated the question you bountied.

@MarkMayo short of actually asking Korean Air, this is the best I could do.

I also messaged Korean Air on Facebook

let's figure this out!

Mark Mayo

3:00 AM

@chx nice work

@phoog I get the argument about the malicious sites, although I always mouse over to see where it's going

chx

7:54 AM

@MarkMayo answer delivered.

@MarkMayo with pnuts and phoog hot on my tail, I need more sweet, sweet karma :D

I like being #18 all time more than being #20 all time :D

JoErNanO

8:32 AM

@ZachLipton What are you sick of?

@JonathanReez I'm all in favour of housekeeping. That message I posted was not directed at you in any way, nor was it a passive aggressive way of saying stop it. ;)

Zach Lipton

@JoErNanO useless edits...

hey, it's another UK visa refusal question from someone in Ghana who wants to join the British Army: travel.stackexchange.com/questions/88682/u-k-visa-refusal

so weird how many of those we get now

chx

9:20 AM

@MarkMayo chasing the first on the SE network might be impossible :/ the small sites have it easy. We and RPG are the only above 20k 100% answered sites tho.

Mark Mayo

9:40 AM

@chx great work :)

@chx Doesnt meant we can't keep trying!

Henning Makholm

11:45 AM

Gah, front page is 98% full of useless edits, but for once it is not pnuts who's the culprit. Is that thing contagious?

2

JonathanReez

11:57 AM

@HenningMakholm actually I'm not sure how was the first to start the edit sprints

Willeke

12:49 PM

Not just the front page either.

And serial close votes, 20 waiting to be reviewed. (I have not looked at them, as I know I will vote to keep open being so annoyed.)

JoErNanO

What is a useless edit?

Willeke

Just the change of one or two words, or just correcting capitaliazation.

And often just adding or taking away a tag.

If there are just one or two of those, you do not mind but if it gets to three months the front pages being flooded with them, you get really tired of them.

And I see no improvements, no end to it, just more and more different 'reasons' to do those edits so I fear more months of them.

JonathanReez

1:11 PM

well... there are 20k questions. Around 1% should be deleted (spam, completely off-topic, etc), 10% should be closed, and 30% could be improved in various ways (tag edits, spelling, better titles, removal of thank-yous, proper formatting, inline-links, etc, etc, etc)

JoErNanO

@Willeke Voting randomly because you are annoyed is IMHO not the best way to go. I'd rather skip them if I were you.

Willeke

That is what I am doing, not going to look at those close votes.

JoErNanO

Good. :)

Now, I'd like to understand what bothers people so much about the edits. The reason is that I don't feel like I am bothered at all. So I would genuinely like to get to the root of the problem because surely I am missing something.

I think tag edits are fundamental: better tagging makes for easier searching of questions.

3

Willeke

I come to the site to see the questions that have real new activity, newish users, nice questions to answer.

Not to see small edits by one or a few people on countless questions and answers that do not need me viewing them.

I have to dive in 100 questions, or sometimes more, to see the last 24 hours.

Once or twice that is not a problem, but it is 3 months now.

And you will see a lot of regulars missing, not hanging out in chat much and so on.

The new questions are mostly by new users, often hit and run, the steady flow of questions of regulars seem missing.

JonathanReez

@Willeke what's wrong with travel.stackexchange.com/questions?sort=newest ?

2

Willeke

1:26 PM

One extra problem is that those same people edit the questions with all newer activity, effectively hiding them within the huge flood of edits.

JonathanReez

We also have travel.stackexchange.com/?tab=week

Willeke

Those are just the newest questions, I am one for seeing all real new activity, answers to older questions, (not just the late answer by new people that hit review)

And I am NOT the ONLY person, read through the starred comments of the last three months, see how many get 5 or more stars as well.

4

JonathanReez

well... if you take a look at StackOverflow it's a lot lot worse

the front page is literally a huge stream of new questions, edits, etc

See

84

Q: Could we have the ability to mark a change as minor in questions or answers?

It would be nice to allow users to mark a change in an answer (or question) as minor (e.g. for a simple spelling or grammar correction). A change marked as minor wouldn't push the question on top of the list of questions on the home page or in the feeds. It wouldn't trigger any notification. This...

I also took a time to create a feature request specifically for us

0

Q: On minor sites, would it be possible to implement a 'hide from the front page' feature for edits?

On Travel.SE there are frequent complaints about waves of edits removing interesting new content from the 'front page', which is used by many to track the site's activity. Would it be possible to implement a checkbox to hide an edit from the 'front page' on minor sites such as Travel.SE? Obvious...

feature-request

Willeke

Then wait with those small edits till that function is made available.

JonathanReez

1:42 PM

I'm almost done anyway, this was simply inspired by pnuts' use of Data.Stackexchange.com to track down the worst Qs

phoog

1:58 PM

@JonathanReez its vs it's. It's not helpful to "improve" titles with incorrect spelling.

JonathanReez

2:46 PM

@phoog I didn't even know there was a difference, thanks

JonathanReez

3:13 PM

Ollielo at it again

From the Close Review history: travel.stackexchange.com/review/close/history

chx

5:18 PM

travel.stackexchange.com/questions/88712/… can we have a close reason of 'trivial'? Or 'no research'?

seriously?

@MarkMayo travel.stackexchange.com/a/88685/4188 . Bounty ? :)

pnuts

5:36 PM

I believe sounds hardly more substantial than my is very likely. Do you have a bit more detail of the FB confirmation?

Regarding ATMs, travel.stackexchange.com/questions/9995/… may be of interest.

Rory Alsop

@JonathanReez do we not throttle when enough votes happen that fast?

pnuts

I think limit is 20 in a day.

chx

@pnuts there are no details. "The screen monitor would be placed in the armrest.

Thanks,

Your Korean Air Facebook Team"

Zach Lipton

6:16 PM

@JonathanReez To answer this question, the problem with sorting by newest questions is that you don't see new answers. We often get new answers that are wrong, not actually answers, spam, etc, many that don't even end up in the review queue initially since the users have enough rep... I spend a bunch of time looking at those and flagging any that are problems.

If those new answers are buried under 100 edits from somebody who has decided to make every single question on the site conform to their own personal writing style, those answers will never be seen

pnuts

6:31 PM

Have you considered travel.stackexchange.com/search?tab=newest&q=is%3aa

JonathanReez

@chx "Where can I find a bathroom close to Oxford street?" toilets where-on-earth

chx

hrm

any such questions should come with "I tried to search on Google Maps but couldn't find anything"

JonathanReez

I'd add a close reason for "Question can be answered with a single query on Google Maps"

chx

if it doesn't , presume it's doable and close mercilessly

JonathanReez

if it's literally a single query, then close it

chx

6:37 PM

yes

JonathanReez

but AFAIK there can only be 5 close reasons

chx

it's not always that trivial

like, good luck finding a public bathroom in Hungary

I doubt there's any on Google Maps (since there are practically none, still or the ones that exist are closed)

but yes if it's trivial, close.

pnuts

@JonathanReez And, at the moment, 'trivial' is not one. Until it is "does not show any research effort" is covered by downvotes. Users seem very reluctant to use those, but as I understand it, them's the rules.

JonathanReez

@pnuts there used to be "Too localized" but the admin overlords removed it

pnuts

I know - and they are the ones to decide such matters, not us.

JonathanReez

6:45 PM

We can add a custom close reason

or to be precise edit the existing ones

pnuts

If possible and appropriate, then let us do so (but usually best to 'discuss' on meta first - in theory).

chx

i thought we have three custom closes

but what do i know

does "This question belongs on another site in the Stack Exchange network" and "other" count into the five?

pnuts

If someone in chat upvoted travel.stackexchange.com/questions/88723/… might they clarify whether Q is about Malta or Sicily (or both?) at least?

@chx I think 3 custom + 2 standard = 5.

chx

I have added a comment travel.stackexchange.com/questions/88723/…

and it's funny because I am looking at a Sicily and Malta visit the first week of January myself

Rory Alsop

7:14 PM

@chx I have been looking at a Sicily/Naples visit (a friend works in Naples) but still not done it. Looks lovely though.

chx

Thing is, I need some sun after a Hungarian winter visit.

I did Israel last year, that was a lot of fun!

although most people wouldn't call a crazy seven day - seven accommodations trip fun

i loved it

Rory Alsop

@chx I loved Israel - Tel Aviv, Jafo and Jerusalem over 4 days

chx

I've done that long ago, this time I did Tel Hazor - Tel Meggido - Beer Sheva - Avdat - Mitzpah Ramon - Eilat - Petra - Amman (ok, the last two are Jordan, i know)

Rory Alsop

@chx Still feel safe enough doing that? I want to visit Petra, but the increasing risk (from my perception as a Scotsman) worries me

chx

It was safe enough in 2016 January

And I can't imagine who would strike in Jordan

Rory Alsop

7:29 PM

December 2016 - terrorist attack left 7 dead

2016 Al-Karak attack

On 18 December 2016, a series of shootings took place in the city of Al-Karak in southern Jordan. The attack started in the vicinity of Al-Karak where a group of unidentified militants ambushed emergency responders and then moved into the city, attacking police patrols and the local police station and finally seeking shelter in the historic Crusader-era Kerak Castle, a popular tourist attraction. Severe fog at noon hampered police operations. After an attempt by the Jordanian gendarmerie to besiege the castle, the five attackers were killed following the arrival of the elite Jordanian 71st Special...

chx

do note they didn't attack tourists

but yes, some were shot in the sordid affair, I see

I still wouldn't worry

but ... i can understand. While I have no fear of terror attacks, it's the everyday interactions that keep me away from the so called third world. So ... each to their own.

Rory Alsop

@chx oh, don't get me wrong, I do still see the risk as almost vanishingly small (my day job is in risk management) I need to be able to reassure my wife, and any region with a higher than median risk stands out for her :-)

chx

I was looking at the pretty cheap LAX-Bogota-Madrid tickets with an eye of visiting Bogota then I did google.ca/… this and then I noped the fuck out

Rory Alsop

@chx yeah - it's not even on my list :-)

mts

7:44 PM

@JonathanReez meta is such a hostile place...

JonathanReez

8:01 PM

@mts ??

Oh, my StackExchange post

well Stackoverflow is very harsh

you gotta be Jon Skeet to get a polite and warm answer

Meta.StackExchange is harsh as well by extension

pnuts

harsh may fit SU but disciplined may be more suitable for SO.

mts

0

Q: Site view with recently active questions & answers but excluding edits!

Feature Request In the Questions view of a site, add a tab/option to view questions that are either new or have received new answers, i.e. questions that have new content beyond edits. Background Over on Travel SE we have some users that are very actively editing old questions, even for minor...

feature-request edits question-lists

Please see my suggestion on Meta SO

pnuts

That's constructive.

mts

8:18 PM

@pnuts re your edit on the vwp question thats dupe: I find it destructive that you remove relevant tags just because they are included in another tag. if once I search that Q under the esta tag I won't find it because its only tagged vwp. if there is space for more tags, why not allow them to be redundant? ESTA and USA would be good tags here travel.stackexchange.com/q/88729/32134 (besides its going to dupe closure).

3

pnuts

I should have changed [vwp] to [us-visa-waiver-program] (though I think that is still under discussion). The Q Title includes "ESTA" but Q is not actually about ESTA expiry (yes, I should have changed the Title but was stuck for something suitable). [visas] seemed unsuitable because the VWP is about not needing them.

[usa] might help you find that Q but would not help those seeking questions about USA that are not to do with visas/ESTA/VWP and the like (that are the majority by far here).

That is, members of that group are around 25% of all Qs.

mts

8:38 PM

Is that just your opinion or do we have a guideline which says so?

pnuts

re [vwp]: meta.travel.stackexchange.com/questions/3972/…

re [visas]: travel.stackexchange.com/tags/visas/info

re [esta]: travel.stackexchange.com/tags/esta/info

re redundancy: meta.travel.stackexchange.com/a/3399/4995

mts

Half of the edits to the tag wiki of [visas] are yours. I don't call that a guideline that has formed from discussion.

The meta Q just has not received enough attention yet to simply go by it IMHO. That's my two cents.

pnuts

7 versions. I had a hand in only the last.

mts

5 out of 11 here, including the last three, which were major. I really value your contributions to the site but I often have the feeling you don't give a ... about the experience of other (frequent) users on here.

pnuts

All my edits to the [visas] tag wiki that have been accepted were reviewed.

Zach Lipton

8:59 PM

we get five tags per question. I see no reason why a question shouldn't use five appropriate tags if there are five tags that fit

5

tags are meant to be combined. how is tagging a question both 'usa' and 'los-angeles' a bad thing?

4

pnuts

If there are five tags that fit then indeed a Q should be tagged with five. Problem being, what is "fit".

Tagging a question both 'usa' and 'los-angeles' (where solely about LA) is hierarchical and SE do not like that.

I, and I suspect many others of our viewers (not necessarily users), don't want to be swamped by Qs specific to LA, NYC, SEA, National Parks and very many other subcategories of USA where my interest is USA as a whole. That would be too close to tagging every Q with a single tag (say [travel]) in terms of differentiation.

JonathanReez

9:30 PM

Like I've already mentioned in my A on Meta, we need a Mod decision on this

pnuts

Not before whatever "this" is has been discussed in meta.

chx

11:32 PM

it is SO fitting that I got to 25k on a Canadian PR question.

pnuts

Congratulations!

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