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Double AA
Double AA
12:34 AM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MONICA CELLIO or should I say יום הלדת שמח!!!
5
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@DoubleAA Do you have a calendar that you update whenever someone mentions their birthday??
@DoubleAA Time to get working on:
May 11 '12 at 16:58, by Monica Cellio
@HodofHod with 1000+ users, we can probably have a party every day if we want to. :-)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@DoubleAA aw, you remembered! Thank you!
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Happy Birthday! To many more years of health, wealth, and happiness, physically and spiritually!
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
12:50 AM
@HodofHod said that on one's birthday our words of blessing carry some extra weight, so: may the Holy One blessed be He continue to bless all in the Mi Yodeya community. May we all merit many years of health, happiness, spiritual fulfillment, and growth in learning!
5
And on another note, I am delighted to see the edits to some of Shulem's answers this evening. Thank you to everybody who helped him out with comments!
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio From his "about":
> Seeing the voting patterns here I think I should give myself votes for each post depending on these things. How easy it was for me to find an answer, like just asking it on google. If I have provided any 'chiddush' in the answer not mentioned in the quote. Maybe other things will come to my mind later, on what to base these votes.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod oh I hadn't seen that. I'm not sure what he means by "give myself votes".
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Neither am I.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
1:05 AM
@MonicaCellio Pin?
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod are you in the picture, or behind the camera? (Is it time to play "identify HodofHod"? :-) )
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio I meant you should pin your blessing :D
@MonicaCellio I am neither, btw. This is the early part of the evening. Stayed eating, singing, guitar playing, and flute playing/beatboxing until the wee hours of the morn'.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod oh! Ok. I figure a picture from your Lag b'Omer birthday is worth attention too. :-)
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Still trying to see if someone took one with me in it...
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod sounds like fun! Our local celebrations are very kid-oriented, so no late-night stuff here.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
1:11 AM
@MonicaCellio Oh, this wasn't community-arranged. Very exclusive ;D
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod yeah, I figured yours was something different (how exclusive, on a public beach, I can't say :-) ).
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Public State Park campgrounds in the mountains above the beach. They give you a pretty isolated spot if you bring a group.
Everybody should do it at least once. Was absolutely gorgeous!
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod sort of like reserving shelters in parks here, but without the nice view and beach. :-)
@HodofHod "Next year in Malibu"? :-)
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Oh yeah!! (But I just meant camping/bonfire for Lag Baomer. Any old place will do. Malibu is just better'n most ;) )
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod we have rivers, sans beaches. Not the same. :-)
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
1:24 AM
@MonicaCellio Come on, even lakes have beaches. They're not the Pacific, but still! (Besides, you're about 12 hours closer to the ocean than where I call home (Not California, obviously)) :D
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod Yeah, New Jersey beach is probably 8-9 hours. Maybe Lake Erie has a beach; that's only 2.5 hours. This is certainly doable -- it just wasn't on Sunday afternoon this year. :-)
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio 6.5 hrs to Delaware's Assateague Park. Looks cool!
Course, not everyone can/wants to do a long roadtrip.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod ooh, looks pretty -- didn't know about that one! (Poor little Delaware, always getting overlooked...) Also, DC and Baltimore are both about 4.5 hours; I don't know what beaches they have, but I have friends down there, which helps.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Yep, bet the Chesapeake has some really nice spots. (Especially if you camp on the east side.)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod you've been?
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
1:37 AM
@MonicaCellio Nope. Just like watching the sun set over the water. (I prefer it to watching it rise.) :D
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod definitely! Sunrise is a little too late to still be up. :-) But sunsets over water are gorgeous.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
1:56 AM
@MonicaCellio So are you having a party IRL?
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod no. I really ought to do a party someday...
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio You should! They're great! (For some. Some don't like 'em at all)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod I'm kind of an introvert, but on the other hand, reasons to celebrate are good!
 
Double AA
Double AA
2:32 AM
@HodofHod I knew that was a state park before I even clicked on it.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@DoubleAA ?
 
Double AA
Double AA
@HodofHod Delaware is the only state without a national park
:)
errm....google tells me that as of a month ago that's not true anymore news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/03/…
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@DoubleAA Wow. Just - wow.
:D
 
Double AA
Double AA
Kinda sad actually. Now Delaware has even less interesting about it. :)
2
 
Double AA
Double AA
2:44 AM
Just catching up on comments and...
A huge Yeyasher Kochacha to @Daniel!!
 
Seth J
Seth J
@DoubleAA and @Fred, I wonder if that Magen Avraham is traceable....
 
Fred
Fred
3:07 AM
@SethJ Same siman, s"k 2: "כדאיתא בברכות, אם שמע דין ונראה לו שהלכה כך מותר לאמרו בשם אדם גדול כי היכי דליקבלי מיניה [עירובין דף נ"א ופסחים דף קי"ב] ובסוף מסכת כלה איתא האומר דבר בשם חכם שלא גמרו ממנו גורם לשכינה שתסתלק וכ"ה בברכות דף כ"ז ע"ש בתר"י וצ"ע, כל שאינו אומר דבר בשם אומרו עובר בלאו [נדרים פ"ק"
@MonicaCellio Happy Birthday!
 
Seth J
Seth J
3:34 AM
@Fred Whoa. I just learned this. Like just now, a few minutes after that comment. (Slightly behind on Daf Yomi.)
רבה ורב יוסף הוו קא אזלי באורחא א"ל רבה לרב יוסף תהא שביתתנו תותי דיקלא דסביל אחוה ואמרי לה תותי דיקלא דפריק מריה מכרגא (ידע ליה מר) א"ל לא ידענא ליה אמר ליה סמוך עלי דתניא ר' יוסי אומר אם היו שנים אחד מכיר ואחד שאינו מכיר זה שאינו מכיר מוסר שביתתו למכיר זה שמכיר אומר תהא שביתתנו במקום פלוני ולא היא לא תנא ליה כר' יוסי אלא כי היכי דליקבל לה מיניה משום דר' יוסי נימוקו עמו:
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
I'm thinking we should have a final call/vote for 404/Error pages after which we can let Jin know a decision, and get those pages changed once and for all. Anyone interested?
@SethJ @MonicaCellio @msh210 @DoubleAA @IsaacMoses @Michoel @Anyone-Else?
(Sorry about the double ping, everyone.)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Fred thank you!
@HodofHod thanks for the reminder!
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Discuss it in the office?
 
Michoel
Michoel
3:50 AM
@HodofHod Thanks, I've gone through the proposals and voted for the ones I like (which were already the top ones anyhow).
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod not necessarily. Basically, we need to (1) check with Jin about logistics (like timeframe), and (2) decide how to proceed (new post? bump the existing one? something else?). No reason we can't do that openly. What are your thoughts? (I'm going to have to drop off, but please queue 'em up, all!)
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@Michoel Keep in mind that the Captcha is already the Golem (I personally would have gone with King Shlomo's feet, but hey!)
 
Michoel
Michoel
@HodofHod Yeah I noticed that. I liked both ideas but the Golem one is already done and would probably be understood by a larger audience anyway
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio Bump old one, tag featured, call for more proposals/more hashing out of specifics. Voting could be conducted perhaps preferentially, a la meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1111/…
^^^ My opinion.
 
Michoel
Michoel
@HodofHod Why not just rely on the voting that has been done already on the current meta question?
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
3:55 AM
@HodofHod I was thinking along similar lines, so I'm glad for your suggestion! @msh210 @DoubleAA ^^^ starting here
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
Small annoyance with the Captcha answers sitting there. 3 options (as I see it) a) leave 'em (who cares?) b) delete 'em until after final voting, or c) start a new call.
@Michoel Preferential voting takes into account people's 2nd or 3rd (etc.,) choices, hopefully leading to a greater combined satisfaction average.
 
Michoel
Michoel
@HodofHod Aha, makes sense
 
Double AA
Double AA
4:16 AM
@MonicaCellio Congratulations! That is Bam's 30K message.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@DoubleAA YAY! What did she win? (Also, where's the flashing banner?)
 
HaSofer
HaSofer
Chabad.org Omer Counter: Count 36 Days on Tuesday Night, April 30, 2013
posted on May 01, 2013

Today is thirty-six days, which is five weeks and one day of the Omer. Today's attribute: Chesed ShebeYesod

 
Daniel
Daniel
@DoubleAA For what?
@DoubleAA How do you know?
 
Double AA
Double AA
@Daniel Bottom right corner of the box demarcating this chat room. See it at chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/468/vdibarta-bam or chat.stackexchange.com
 
Daniel
Daniel
@DoubleAA Ah got it
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
4:24 AM
@DoubleAA Conspiracy!!!! Between this and snooping in the deleted comments, who know what other abuses are going on here?? ;D
 
Double AA
Double AA
@HodofHod :) Serious props for taking the time to leave me a deletion note!
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@DoubleAA You think you can bribe me with flattery?? I would nev... Yeah I can't do this. :)
 
Daniel
Daniel
Ooh awesome! I got a comment with 6 upvotes. I think that doubles my previous record!
 
Double AA
Double AA
@Daniel Nope. You have at least 2 others with >4 upvotes
 
Daniel
Daniel
@DoubleAA Yeah I was just looking for that
@DoubleAA, Ooh I actually have a great comment on StackOverflow with 9 votes
Someone asked a question about pointer arithmetic
and asked for any pointers
 
 
8 hours later…
Seth J
Seth J
12:30 PM
@MonicaCellio, I've noticed lately that Caleb seems to always be here in an idle state. Is that so we can ping him (ie., is he here in a supervisory role), or is there a bug keeping him from leaving? Is he our assigned chat supermod?
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
12:54 PM
@DoubleAA cool! How did you determine that? (It doesn't seem to be encoded in the permalink.)
@DoubleAA oh I see. Cool.
@Daniel heh. Link?
@SethJ I'm not aware of anything official. I'm guessing that he came in once to chat about something, never officially left, and automatically logs into "all rooms" when he enters chat.
 
 
1 hour later…
Daniel
Daniel
2:20 PM
tee hee at the pun asking for "pointers" — Daniel Aug 18 '11 at 20:58
That's weird. I replied to @MonicaCellio, but and the chat message is linked to her chat message, but chat didn't seem to @-ping her
Also, that's weird that it converts links to comments into the comment itself
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Daniel I think when a reply consists of something that gets "oneboxed" (links -> messages, wikipedia pages, questions/answers, etc), the name drops out of the reply.
But the connection remains, as you saw.
 
Double AA
Double AA
3:17 PM
20
A: Which links and sites are handled specially in chat?

Juha SyrjäläThe current list of integrated (we call this onebox, or oneboxing, ala search engines) sites is: Stack Exchange sites: Questions / Answers / Users / Comments Stack Exchange Chat: Messages / Rooms / Bookmarked conversations Area 51 proposals Posts from the Stack Exchange blog, the Server Fault b...

Don't worry; it does ping the respondee. Just like the one-boxed link above pinged you.
You can also one box:
users
sites
xkcd
and more
 
Daniel
Daniel
@DoubleAA haha yeah I saw that you could do xkcd and thought that was funny
 
Double AA
Double AA
3:35 PM
@SethJ I'm not aware of such an arrangement. (And you can always ask him; he doesn't bite :) )
ALL Please provide input regarding this
2
 
msh210
msh210
3:50 PM
@DoubleAA How'd you know? (Just catching up on backread now.) But, yeah, happy birthday, @MonicaCellio! Many happy returns!
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@msh210 Probably:
May 11 '12 at 13:15, by Monica Cellio
@ShmuelBrin well, my birthday isn't until 21 Iyar, but close enough. :-)
 
Daniel
Daniel
@HodofHod But how does one remember that from a year ago?
Pretty impressive
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@msh210 thanks! Yeah, it came up last year. :-)
 
Daniel
Daniel
But happy birthday!
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
15 hours ago, by HodofHod
@DoubleAA Do you have a calendar that you update whenever someone mentions their birthday??
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
3:52 PM
@Daniel I think it was @HodofHod who remembered, probably due to proximity to his. (I remembered his before it came up, too.) And thanks!
 
Daniel
Daniel
@HodofHod We should make a calendar
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@MonicaCellio I wish I could claim credit, but it was not me; it was @DoubleAA
May 11 '12 at 16:58, by Monica Cellio
@HodofHod with 1000+ users, we can probably have a party every day if we want to. :-)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@HodofHod oh oops, sorry @DoubleAA! That'll teach me to write without backreading first.
 
Daniel
Daniel
@DoubleAA I like @IsaacMoses idea
Also, for the captcha, we could have some kind of image of a golem
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@Daniel Thanks! Me, too. @DoubleAA, I recommend turning the top two top-voted ideas (Vidui and yagata/matzata) over to Jin and having him see what he can do with them.
 
Daniel
Daniel
4:01 PM
@IsaacMoses Ooh that's so funny. I thought I was being original
 
Charlie
Charlie
Hello
First time I'm here :)
 
Daniel
Daniel
@Charlie Welcome :)
I hope you enjoy yourself here
 
Charlie
Charlie
@Daniel שלום it's a pleasure to be here
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses Note the different yaga'ta ideas: it's hard to tell which was upvoted.
@Charlie Welcome!
 
Charlie
Charlie
@msh210 Thank you!
 
msh210
msh210
4:15 PM
@IsaacMoses I think viduy is the only error-page idea. Did I miss any?
 
Charlie
Charlie
Can I make a question? I asked a friend and he didn't give a very accurate answer
 
Daniel
Daniel
@Charlie Of course! that's the whole purpose of this site
 
Charlie
Charlie
@Daniel excellent! Is it allowed to get married.on shabbat ?
 
Daniel
Daniel
@DoubleAA @msh210 @MonicaCellio How do I link to the ask a question page? [ask] takes people to the "how to ask a question" page
@Charlie Great question! The answer to that question is no
If you want sources, I recommend asking it on the main site
 
Double AA
Double AA
6
Q: Are marriages on yom tov recognized if all other halacha is observed?

user2325I attended a reform Jewish wedding on Shavuot and was wondering if the marriage is acknowledged and what the status of the children of that union are?

marriage yom-tov pregnancy-birth
 
Daniel
Daniel
4:18 PM
People will give you a thorough answer
 
msh210
msh210
@Daniel Just link to it. I know no other way.
 
Double AA
Double AA
8
Q: Add a markdown shortcut to Ask a New Question

Double AAI notice often enough that I or someone else has to suggest asking a new question (especially to newer users) when discussion in comment threads gets too off topic. I request an addition to the markdown shortcuts such as [edit] and [faq] that would link to currentsite.stackexchange.com/questions...

feature-request comments asking-questions
 
Daniel
Daniel
@msh210 I tried that. [ask a question](judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/ask)
 
msh210
msh210
@Charlie note "yom tov" = holiday (like the first day of Passover for example)
@Daniel Add in http:// after the (
 
Double AA
Double AA
@Daniel you need the http
[ask a question](http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/ask)
 
Daniel
Daniel
4:19 PM
@DoubleAA @msh210 Oh.
 
Double AA
Double AA
 
Daniel
Daniel
I probably should have thought of that
@Charlie, did that link that @DoubleAA provided help you?
 
Double AA
Double AA
0
Q: Are marriages on Shabbat allowed?

Charlieit's my first question here, I saw a similar question, hooe I'm not being redundant. I wanted to know if they are allowed, and if not, where is it said, and why not. Thanks in advance! It is a pleasure!

marriage yom-tov
 
Charlie
Charlie
Is it good?
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 The precise phrasing can be worked out at the design level, even without any Jewish knowledge other than the quote provided.
 
msh210
msh210
4:27 PM
@Charlie Looks pretty good! We (it's a Stack Exchange thing, not just Mi Yodeya) usually try to minimize the stuff in the question that's meta to it (thanking people, identifying oneself, etc.). I've removed some of that stuff; probably the "Thanks in advance! It is a pleasure!" can also be removed.
You also may wish to include why you think there may be a problem. (Otherwise, one could just as well ask "are marriages on Tuesday not allowed?".)
 
Charlie
Charlie
@msh210 oh! Fascinating! Thanks for the advice.
 
msh210
msh210
(Marriages on Tuesday are allowed, incidentally. Most Tuesdays, anyway.)
 
Daniel
Daniel
@msh210 Not this Tuesday :)
 
msh210
msh210
@Daniel Depends....
 
Daniel
Daniel
@msh210 Fine. Not last Tuesday
haha
 
msh210
msh210
4:29 PM
:-)
 
Charlie
Charlie
Tge answer gives " However he notes that if one did so, even on purpose, it works and the couple is fully married." So, you should nit, but if you do, it is okay?
 
Daniel
Daniel
@msh210 Do people hold that you can get married in the second half of the omer?
 
msh210
msh210
@Daniel Yes.
 
Daniel
Daniel
@Charlie Exactly
 
msh210
msh210
@Charlie If you did, the marriage is effective. That doesn't mean it wasn't wrong, in retrospect, to do it.
@IsaacMoses I suppose so.
 
Daniel
Daniel
4:32 PM
@Charlie See this
lechatchila, one should not have a wedding. After the fact, it is still considered to have been effective
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@IsaacMoses I like the top-voted 404 idea. (Not sure which you mean by yagata/matzata.) I don't care for the vidui one but I'm out-voted so oh well.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@Charlie You should not build a house on Shabbat, but if you did, the house is still built, as defined by its physical cohesion. In the case of a marriage, whether it's "built" or not is a matter of Jewish law that isn't necessarily tied to a separate matter of Jewish law - whether it's permitted to enact it then.
2
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Charlie welcome!
 
msh210
msh210
@MonicaCellio That's the yaga'ta-matzasa one.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@MonicaCellio Sorry. I was using the central Aramaic words in the quotation as shorthand.
“אמר רבי יצחק: אם יאמר לך אדם ‘יגעתי ולא מצאתי’ – אל תאמן; ‘לא יגעתי ומצאתי’; אל תאמן; ‘יגעתי ומצאתי’ – תאמן”
 
msh210
msh210
4:35 PM
@IsaacMoses Hebrew.
(And for some reason I parsed that as {central Aramaic} -- a dialect. Something is wrong with me....)
 
Daniel
Daniel
@msh210 It's what the speak in Honduras
*The Jews in Honduras
 
msh210
msh210
@Daniel No, that's Central Americ.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Oh; right. Huh. Didn't realize that was Tannaitic. Also didn't realize that "yaga'ta" is actually not the word used in it - it's "yaga'ti"
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Charlie yes, this is a difference between "up front" and "after the fact" (l'hatchila and b'dieved). There are many things in halacha where you shouldn't do X or should do Y, but if you did X or didn't do Y, we still let it stand rather than, e.g., invalidating a marriage.
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses Well, we'd want it in second person if we're using the first idea in that answer. I think. (In first person if using the 2nd idea.)
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
4:38 PM
@msh210 I'll claim that as a back-justification of my shorthand
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Daniel I was taught that weddings after lag b'omer are ok, but I don't have a source. (We ended up on the Sunday before Pesach rather than later, so we didn't have to go there.)
 
msh210
msh210
@MonicaCellio Ooh, now we know your anniversary, too! Wait, er...
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Well, within a few days
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses Yeah, somewhere in [8..12] Nisan.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@msh210 oh, ok. To be clear, I like it only with the second option, not the one that accuses the user of not toiling.
 
Charlie
Charlie
4:40 PM
@IsaacMoses but if it is not allowed,.it should not be done, no?
 
msh210
msh210
@MonicaCellio I could tell from your comment there. :-)
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@MonicaCellio @msh210, Me, too, really. I also like Menachem's version
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@IsaacMoses thanks. Since there was also an answer about searching for chametz that seemed like it could be "matzata", I was confused.
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses It's a clearer reference.
 
Daniel
Daniel
@Charlie Right. One should not get married on Shabbat
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
4:42 PM
@msh210 only if you have a year. :-)
@IsaacMoses yeah, that one too. :-)
@msh210 but it's not really a secret or anything. 11 Nisan.
Ok, so I've gotten a little lost in the transcripts: for 404 we're proposing the "did not toil" one, and for error... vidui?
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@MonicaCellio Nice. It was in a year in which Shabbat Hagadol lined up with the original Shabbat Hagadol's date
 
msh210
msh210
@MonicaCellio AFAICT that's the only proposal on the table for the error page.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@IsaacMoses it did? Cool. I hadn't done the calendar math.
 
Charlie
Charlie
@Daniel thank you very much, it was very informative!
 
msh210
msh210
@MonicaCellio Yeah, we left Egypt on a Thursday. Everyone was saying TGIT.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
4:45 PM
@MonicaCellio They could actually be combined for 404, if the tone of the 404 text is apologetic. A graphic of viddui could speak for itself in complementing that.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Charlie we're being pretty talkative today; I hope you're finding your way through this ok! (If you click on the little left-arrow at the top left of a chat message, you can follow threads back.) Anyway, yeah, you shouldn't plan a wedding on Shabbat.
@IsaacMoses that's true.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@MonicaCellio ... and the generic error could still use the same graphic.
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses But the idea of viduy is wrongdoing and the idea of yaga'ti is that he ddn't do anything wrong.
 
Double AA
Double AA
@Charlie Thank you for your question! Please come back to visit Mi Yodeya again :)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@msh210 he didn't; the server did.
 
Charlie
Charlie
4:47 PM
@MonicaCellio :D I'm quite used to stack exchange chat!
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Charlie oh, ok! Sorry, should have checked your profile. :-)
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Fair enough.
 
msh210
msh210
@MonicaCellio 'he'=the anthropomorphic server
...which is both doing viduy and saying he toiled.
 
Daniel
Daniel
Now I'm confused. Which message is assigned to which problem?
Is viduy for 404 or for error?
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Should have used "yo"
 
Charlie
Charlie
4:49 PM
@DoubleAA I'll comeback more often, I have many questions, and not really sure where to look for answers
 
Daniel
Daniel
@Charlie Well hopefully we can help you here!
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
Do we have a Q&A about how to find oneself a rabbi?
 
Daniel
Daniel
@IsaacMoses I think so. I seem to remember it
But I seem to remember many questions that don't actually exist
 
Charlie
Charlie
I appreciate the politeness!!
 
Daniel
Daniel
@Charlie Yes it is nice here. Much better than what I like to call the "c++ shark tank" at SO and on some other stack exchange sites
 
msh210
msh210
4:52 PM
@Charlie Ahh, shut the^W^W^W Glad we could help! :-)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@IsaacMoses I'm not sure, actually. We have a question about why you should, but I don't remember a how-to question.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@MonicaCellio OK, well, anyway: @Charlie, I recommend that in addition to posting questions on Mi Yodeya for information, you also try to find a rabbi you can go to if you need personal, professional advice.
 
Charlie
Charlie
@Daniel I believe it's important to point this out, once I've seen in other places (stack exchange site) a very unpleasent behavior which I'm still trying to comprehend, and correct.
@IsaacMoses yes, yes, I'd like to point out the fact that I'm not jewish.
 
msh210
msh210
@Charlie Then consulting a rabbi for practical advice isn't as crucial. :-D
(I kid, but) consulting a rabbi is still helpful if your wedding question was a practical one (but for someone Jewish rather than for yourself).
@Daniel I've never spent any time in any of the SO chat rooms. Do they deride C++ users?
 
Charlie
Charlie
:D I wanted to ask,.is there hebrew language and usage? I'm learning it(by myself), it would be very helpfuls
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
5:02 PM
@Charlie There's a proposal for it that's gaining traction slowly
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
"Slowly" being the key word, there.
@IsaacMoses "I toiled hard to find the URL etc., but I did not find it!" (Followed by two buttons, "I believe you" and "I don't believe you". Clicking the "I believe you" button takes you to a video of Rick Astley) — HodofHod 6 mins ago
 
Charlie
Charlie
That's lame!
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
Moral of the story: Al Taamin
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@HodofHod, hope you don't mind, but I edited meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1018/… to remove the version that points a finger at the user and added a couple of alternative phrasings from the comments
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@IsaacMoses Hey, it was your proposal - do with it as you wish :D
(The whole idea, I don't remember whose finger-pointing, and I doubt it matters)
 
msh210
msh210
5:05 PM
> ... 404: Would you believe that I toiled, trying to find the URL you asked for, but did not succeed? Wait; don't answer that.
^ Not sure that needs the Talmud quotation also.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@HodofHod Did you try to find out whom to point the finger at for the finger-pointing?
 
msh210
msh210
@HodofHod finger-pointing = telling the surfer he hadn't toiled
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Good point. Maybe just the citation, or a link to the original text from "Wait ..."
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses yeah, a link sounds good
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@msh210 I know. (The first clause was about the previous message, and should probably have been followed by a semicolon.)
@IsaacMoses Aww, and I was really looking forward to Rickrolling people....
 
msh210
msh210
5:08 PM
@Charlie Meanwhile, although Hebrew-language questions are off-topic on Mi Yodeya, you can try some here in chat if you want.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@HodofHod But what if someone gets a 404 during Sefira?
 
msh210
msh210
('meanwhile' = until the Hebrew site gets off the ground.)
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 "Hebrew-language questions that are not also about Judaism"
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses Yes, sorry, shoulda specified. @Charlie
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
5:11 PM
@msh210 The tricky bit is that it's often difficult to come up with a canonical link to a particular Talmud quotation, out of context
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses You mean, as opposed to a link tot he whole page? I suspect there's a good Web page somewhere that explains this maxim, though.
... and, searching for one (Googled toil find believe) the first result is 1 Timothy 4:10.
Added megillah
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Probably. Takes some involved searching.
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses I'm toiling, I'm toiling, give me a chance.
dafnotes.blogspot.com/2007/02/… is okay, though I'm hopeful there's something better.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@HodofHod I'm very impressed. What's next - a Kosher for Passover version of that gag food that looks great but tastes horrible?
@msh210 You just tied your credibility to the ultimate success of your quest. Dangerous.
 
Charlie
Charlie
@msh210 oh! That would be wonderful!
 
msh210
msh210
5:16 PM
@IsaacMoses Well, I've found something (above), so I'm in the clear, I think.
I don't see anything better than the dafnotes blog entry.
I'm not sure SE would be willing to have its 404 page link to some arbitrary blog entry from its 404 page. Maybe it could link to a Meta post explaining the 404 page instead?
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Or maybe we could come up with a legit Mi Yodeya question that hilights that quotation?
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
 
Daniel
Daniel
@msh210 I don't know about the chat room. The regulars who follow the c++ tag are often quite rude
Give sarcastic answers
Especially to new users
 
msh210
msh210
5:35 PM
@Daniel I see.
@IsaacMoses Why is there divine help for memory? That also depends on effort (as we see from somewhere-or-other that says to sing mishnayos)!
@HodofHod The other one is better.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@msh210 But this one is more annoying (I think), and isn't that the whole point?
 
msh210
msh210
@HodofHod I suppose so.
 
HodofHod
HodofHod
@msh210 Better yet, host a page that starts playing both, offset from each other by .5 seconds!!!
 
msh210
msh210
@HodofHod Doubtless someone's posted something like that to YouTube already. I'm not going to toil and look for it, believe me.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
6:06 PM
Levy, thanks for bringing your question here! As you can tell from the above comments, what, exactly, you're questioning about the other fellow's actions is not clear. Might I suggest you edit the question to clarify? Meanwhile, I'm closing the question as a temporary measure to make sure people don't post answers that don't address what you really mean to ask. — msh210 22 mins ago
^^ @msh210, I like this closure-comment formula you've been using, especially the last sentence.
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses Now if we can only change the big, bad "not a real question" text to some other wording....
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 That's under active development by SE, right?
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses I know it was asked about on MSO, but I don't recall what the reply was.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 I'm pretty sure I've heard them talking on the podcast about an effort to comprehensively reform the close-reasons, which the MSO post was an expression of, as is the already-accomplished dupe reform
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses ...and that, it seems, is the last we hear about closure in the podcasts. (According to their summaries, anyway.)
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
6:17 PM
@msh210 The last I recall hearing (at least as a topic for full discussion). If you ask in the mod room, someone from staff will probably let you know how much progress they've made since.
 
msh210
msh210
@IsaacMoses Mod room? The SE offices are in NYC, and I'm not. :-)
But hang on, I'm on the red phone.
@IsaacMoses They're working on it.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@msh210 Thanks.
 
Menachem
Menachem
6:34 PM
just saw this, and thought it might be of interest: news.discovery.com/animals/whales-dolphins/… -- a worm that uses acid to cut through bone. Kind of sounds like the Shamir worm
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@Menachem Very cool. Just when you think you've seen all the kinds of ma'asei Hashem out there ...
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
6:59 PM
I hope this didn't coma across as too harsh:
Shulem, a few things. 1. I haven't voted. 2. Original work isn't frowned on, but it's not clear how this answers the question and that might explain the votes. 3. Mi Yodeya Chat is a good place to have conversations. 4. This site isn't a forum; it's more targetted. 5. The ongoing commentary on voting patterns is getting a little tiresome; can you please participate (you have good stuff to contribute!) without focusing on the behavior of other users and the self-declared merit of your answers? Let your work speak for itself; that you earned Mortarboard in your first week speaks volumes. — Monica Cellio 1 min ago
 
Daniel
Daniel
@MonicaCellio It seems like he just doesn't really understand the point of this site
And it also seems like English might not be his first language
Which could be a contributing factor to all of this
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Daniel I thought we'd made a breakthrough yesterday. He posted or edited several quality answers and seemed to be taking comments to heart. But I guess there are still aspects of the site that aren't clear to him. I do hope he'll join us in chat at some point; long comment threads aren't the best way to talk about these things.
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@MonicaCellio No. Unfortunately, though, he seems to have declared a resolution not to accept constructive criticism.
 
Daniel
Daniel
7:15 PM
@MonicaCellio I actually think that a language barrier might be the biggest issue here. It seems like he doesn't really understand the questions that he is trying to answer, and then his answers themselves are very difficult to understand
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@Daniel hmm, that's a good point. And if I (and perhaps others, but I'll pick on myself) have written comments that are hard for a non-native speaker to unpack, then that's not helping.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
7:38 PM
@shulem, I'm not sure why you're having trouble getting into chat, but I just sent you an invitation to this room, so I hope you'll see this comment in a moment.
 
Daniel
Daniel
@MonicaCellio, He is probably seeing the chat transcript page, but doesn't see the button to enter the room. That actually confuses me almost every time, even though I know exactly what I'm looking for
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@shulem, Welcome!
@shulem, are you able to converse here?
Here's a single, simple tip that I think could help your answers get much better reception right off the bat:
BLUF (communication)
A BLUF is a paragraph detailing the conclusions and recommendations at the beginning of some text, in order to facilitate rapid decision making. This differs from an abstract or executive summary in that it doesn't necessary summarise the arguments or evidence included. Traditionally, conclusions and recommendations are included at the end of a text, following the arguments and considerations of facts. The concept is not exclusive to writing; it can also refer to conversations and interviews. B.L.U.F. is an abbreviation for "Bottom Line Up Front". The term is common in US military wr...
 
shulem
shulem
Am I in this room now
 
Daniel
Daniel
@shulem, yes welcome
 
shulem
shulem
I seem to be talking to myself
hello
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
7:53 PM
@shulem hi, welcome!
 
shulem
shulem
how many do i have the pleasure of addressing
 
Seth J
Seth J
@shulem Hi!
 
Daniel
Daniel
@shulem It looks like there are 5 people in here right now
including you
 
shulem
shulem
at last speaking to humans and not machines
 
Daniel
Daniel
Anybody can come or go
 
shulem
shulem
7:54 PM
well then let us have it out
English is my first language
I have been to university
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@shulem it looks like there are about five-seven people here right now. If you look on the right, under "V'dibarta Bam" and the text blurb, you'll see the user icons for the people who are here. (Grayed-out icons are people who are still here but have been quiet for a while.)
 
shulem
shulem
and published six books not on jewish subject
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@shulem, My suggestion: See the WP article I linked write when you came in. If you start each answer with a paragraph that very directly addresses the question, then spend the rest of your answer backing up the assertion in your first paragraph, it will go a very long way toward getting your point across to the reader.
 
shulem
shulem
do my credentials satisfy you
 
Daniel
Daniel
@shulem We aren't concerned with credentials here
Which is why we require sources for all of the claims that we make
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
7:55 PM
@shulem not worried about credentials. We were just trying to figure out if we had inadvertantly placed a stumbling-block before you (with the language discussion, I mean).
 
shulem
shulem
sorry what claims
do you make
 
Daniel
Daniel
@shulem All claims. About anything. Any thing that we put in an answer should be sourced.
 
shulem
shulem
I can also type quickly as you must realise by now
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
@Daniel ... or at least, explicit reasoning that indicates what parts of it are based on sources, and which
 
Daniel
Daniel
Or at least made clear that it is our own thought
 
shulem
shulem
7:56 PM
I would think that i usually do that
 
Daniel
Daniel
I think that the biggest problem that people have is that your answers are very difficult to understand
Not just the content, but the English
 
shulem
shulem
My english is not that cryptic
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
Yes. Original thought is fine but help us out and show your work. If you just say "X is true", well, you're some random person on the internet -- perhaps a very-knowledgable one, but just like you wouldn't follow a ruling from RabbiPloni@gmail.com without asking for support for what he says...
 
Daniel
Daniel
It would be helpful if you would use proper punctuation, capitalization, and spacing
 
shulem
shulem
my university professors didnt seem to have problems
again i usually do provide this information
 
Isaac Moses
Isaac Moses
7:58 PM
@shulem You are not on trial.
 
shulem
shulem
ok will try to improve what dani has written
well thats a relief
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@shulem please don't think that people here are criticizing. Mi Yodeya (like any other Stack Exchange site) has a broad user base -- different language skills, different levels of knowledge, different backgrounds... we're trying to be accessible to as many of them as possible.
 
Daniel
Daniel
@shulem I think that would be very helpful.
 
shulem
shulem
I understand this very well
 
Daniel
Daniel
Also, to reply to a particular comment, click on the little right arrow that appears when you hover your mouse over it
 
shulem
shulem
7:59 PM
but you have to realise that not everything can be explained to everyone
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
And this means that things that seem obvious to us might not be to others, and sometimes we don't realize that until someone comments about it. The goal is to collectively make the site better, not to pick on anybody.
 
Daniel
Daniel
That way, the messages are all chained together
 
Seth J
Seth J
@shulem Our guiding principle here is that we are resource to everyone who wants to learn more.
 
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