V'dibarta Bam

5:18 AM

@Yishai I know.....tried to flag it, but the system didn't let me....

@Shokhet, definitely a duplicate, but the system won't mark it as such, because it lacks an answer. — Yishai 2 mins ago

@Yishai I think we can just leave it alone.....something tells me that Dr Boxman's question might be better received here than the other

( ....why ask davka about the Beis Hamikdash? Once you find a year, do the math yourself! .....whatever )

And whichever mods saw my flag on this comment ...... I see where he wanted to link to, and I know that mods have extra comment-editing powers, and was wondering if those could be used to fix the link rot in that comment

The link in the flag comment is where he wanted to link to, but because it had so so so many characters, I was not able to explain more fully what the intent of that flag was.

@MonicaCellio @msh210 @DoubleAA ^^^^^ this message

Double AA

5:39 AM

@Shokhet FIxed with en.wikisource.org/?curid=11773

Shokhet

@DoubleAA Cool; that's better than what I had linked to -- thanks!

Double AA

@Shokhet Probably better to explain what you want then spend time with the link. Likely we can find it ourselves.

Both is obviously better if you can. You can also drop an extra flag on the post itself (not just the comments) if you really need more space

Shokhet

@DoubleAA OK

@DoubleAA Because Hebrew text got turned into % and random letters, there was no room for both....I finished the comment with 0 characters left :)

@DoubleAA OK, thanks.

Monica Cellio

4:35 PM

@IsaacMoses re this edit - congrats on the move, and now it's slightly more likely that we might someday meet. :-) (I have friends down there.)

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio Thanks! (Perhaps more than you'd thought :)

Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses yes, I now have more friends there, yay!

Isaac Moses

4:50 PM

To make it explicit, especially since I'm now in a more frequently-visited area: If you are a Yodeyan who happens to live in or visit Silver Spring or the nearby offshoot, Washington, DC, I would love to meet you. There is off-network contact information in my MY profile.

Monica Cellio

(Or, if you meant that you might find your way to Pittsburgh at some point, well, I'm on that list too. :-) )

@IsaacMoses "nearby offshoot, Washington, DC" - :-)

TRiG

5:47 PM

freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/09/29/i-am-like-solomon

Isaac Moses

6:10 PM

@TRiG I've seen people on FB suggesting similarly that travel agents should buy up blocks of seats and resell them with a guarantee of single-sex, at a premium. Any such market-based solution depends on the airline having the fortitude to stand up to bullying in real-time and remove it as a free option.

YEZ

6:24 PM

2

Q: Why do we say עושה השלום during yamim nora'im?

I'm struggling to find a reason/meaning behind saying 'עושה השלום' with a 'ה' at the end of amidah and during kaddish for the yamim nora'im period. I have heard (unverified source) that there is opposition to this practice since it is based on a pasuk, and it is not necessarily desirable to cha...

^^^ needs a yomim noraim tag. Would add RH and YK, but already has 4.

and yomim-noraim does not exist.

Shokhet

@YEZ Why not aseres-yemei-teshuva?

YEZ

@Shokhet Do people do it in Shemone Esrei in the middle days?

@Shokhet Where I daven, they do it on RH and YK but not between.

Shokhet

@YEZ I don't know.....I just do the regular ending

Isaac Moses

@YEZ Bemakom she-ein ish ...

Shokhet

@IsaacMoses But is it necessary? ....we have one for RH, one for YK, and one for aseres yemei teshuva....we seem to be covered

YEZ

6:30 PM

@Shokhet That was my safek. @IsaacMoses

Shokhet

@YEZ I figured :)

YEZ

@Shokhet judaism.stackexchange.com/search?q=yomim+noraim+is%3Aq and judaism.stackexchange.com/search?q=yamim+noraim+is%3Aq and judaism.stackexchange.com/search?q=yamim+nora%27im+is%3Aq

about 10 q's

Shokhet

@YEZ @IsaacMoses If that's what it takes to create a new tag, I have no objection

Leave it to people more experienced than I am

YEZ

@IsaacMoses see my reason for editing

@IsaacMoses think I should remove the RH and YK tags when those were used as a hack for YN?

Shokhet

On a different topic......what do you guys think I should do about this? (ignore, respond politely, flag as rude.....)

Yes @Shokhet in that xkcd you think I'm a asshole for what I say but when I think you are a asshole when you are killing chickens my opinions don't matter atleast I didn't shut someone up from expressing their opinions and i'm the asshole holy shit.. I don't even know how you sleep at night. I don't understand what is this Q&A site full of trolls or something I don't even believe there is a single jewish person on here.. either this is how you guys act or you are just trolling.. I like stackoverflow but some of these communities are ridiculous. If you don't praise their religion or agree..etc — SSpoke 59 mins ago

@YEZ You got this too, I see

I dont want to know why you do it, I want to know how you guys can believe in God doing this kind of ritual I seen posts where Jews say they wouldn't even harm a fly. So don't tell me that I am ranting when I say it's a satanic ritual because when you say that you are just being ignorance to the facts. — SSpoke 1 hour ago

And responded

@SSpoke Whether or not we are being ignorant (we aren't - a brief google search could probably find you some of the meaning behind the ritual, none of which has to do with worshiping Satan), you are ranting. Ranting is asking a question which includes a tirade which is not relevant to the question. You could make it not a rant by asking the question without the tirade. Although, "I don't want to know why you do it" basically is a confession that you have no question, aren't open to hearing answers, and just want to yell. — YEZ 19 mins ago

YEZ

6:43 PM

@Shokhet flag as rude. Ignore.

3

Shokhet

@YEZ I'm just wondering if there's some way to reach him, to let him understand that we're not out to get him and suppress his "free speech" ......

(and before I turn around it's gone......)

YEZ

@Shokhet It was pretty up there on the offense-o-meter.

@Shokhet good thing you recorded it here for posterity.

Shokhet

@YEZ Hm......now I'm wondering if he was חוזר בתשובה, or if some mod removed it.....

YEZ

@Shokhet I'm going to go for the latter.

in fact...

Yah. I had flagged it before responding to you, and my flag is marked helpful.

Shokhet

@YEZ Ah. Alright then.

Double AA

7:03 PM

What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!

Shokhet

@DoubleAA :)

@DoubleAA But seriously, he is a self-proclaimed Jew, who has a very negative view of the religion......

Double AA

@YEZ I think it was Community noting an offensive flag on a comment with curse words and automatically processing it. There are some secret rules for when flags are auto-handled. I bet this is one of them

YEZ

@DoubleAA Shhhhhhhhhh.

Isaac Moses

@Shokhet If someone's intent on fighting, it's very difficult to help them change attitudes ...

Double AA

18

Q: Allow moderators to undelete comments deleted by magic words

No, you can't hocus pocus a comment to be banished to the outer realms of the ether, but there is a short list of words that, if contained within a comment, cause the comment to be removed after a single flag. Remember when we had a problem with folks brow beating other users about their accept ...

bug comments moderator-abilities

The existence of the list is known. Even mods don't know the details though.

Shokhet

7:08 PM

@IsaacMoses Hmmm.....

Isaac Moses

@Shokhet ... especially when it's not someone you know or can talk to in-person. Sometimes, on SE, people can manage to simmer down, but when a person's really adamant about fighting on a certain point, it's unlikely that they're going to change their mind, at least about that point. Most likely, the best thing to do is move on.

Double AA

@TRiG I don't know what's bigoted or offensive about it, but I do see how it can be quite a hassle. It's just like separate bathrooms AFAICT.

YEZ

@DoubleAA the only redeeming quality of that post was a slightly humorous title.

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Those might not be the right words, but it's inappropriate to force one's particular frumkeit on the people who happen to be around oneself.

@YEZ You da man

@YEZ I think that makes sense wherever the issue pertains to YN collectively and not to RH and YK separately. The question at hand is a good example of that. Something that, say, compares the RH service with that of YK, would IMO get the RH and YK tags.

Shokhet

7:23 PM

@IsaacMoses Thanks for the advice :)

Double AA

@IsaacMoses One isn't in this case. One can ask for others to be nice and move, one can sit there, or one can leave the plane. How is that forcing anything on anyone?

@YEZ Please suggest a suitable tag wiki for your new tag.

YEZ

@DoubleAA sure - here, or on the site?

Double AA

When someone creates a new tag the system should prompt them to suggest a tag wiki, methinks. Ping @JonEricson who is here.

2

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Good idea!

Double AA

@YEZ You can brainstorm here if you want, but on site is the final destination.

YEZ

7:31 PM

@DoubleAA meta.stackexchange.com/questions/ask

Double AA

@YEZ @IsaacMoses I'm going to make High-Holidays a synonym. Do either of you have thoughts which should be the primary name?

Jon Ericson

@DoubleAA We talked about implementing:

12

Q: Promote tag wiki creation for new tags

When a new tag is created, should there be some kind of notification to the user? This could serve a dual purpose: To make the user check that this tag is really required. Is it spelt right? Might there be a more appropriate tag to use instead? - See Warning or confirmation on new tag creatio...

discussion feature-request tags tag-wiki

But we went with:

76

Q: Warning or confirmation on new tag creation

In retrospect of this massive cleanup operation, I would like to ask the community how they feel about a warning or confirmation (or just special highlighting) on new tag creation. Everybody hates stock "are you sure?" confirmation, but a lot of tags get created by mistake (and then used ad naus...

discussion feature-request status-completed tags

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Is that what happened in this case? From the article, it sounded like people asked for others to move and then resorted to standing in the aisle and refusing to move until their preferences were accommodated. But maybe I misread.

@DoubleAA Whatever.

YEZ

@DoubleAA No strong feelings. Can you make "yamim noraim" also? (with an a in yamim)

Double AA

@YEZ I can. But I refuse to make yammim noraim (even though that may be appropriate for Yom Kippur Mincha :) )

@IsaacMoses If that's what they did then they were being meany-faces, not bigots.

Isaac Moses

7:35 PM

@JonEricson Why? It seems that both a warning and a request for a bit of writing would be valuable.

Double AA

@JonEricson +1 to shog. I was referring to the excerpt myself before but failed to specify. Any chance that gets implemented?

Isaac Moses

@DoubleAA Agreed.

TRiG

@DoubleAA Apparently they did sit down until the plane took off. Then got up and caused a scene. They should have been arrested.

Meta-Man

0

Q: Flagging an obsolete comment with a non-obsolete response

I flagged a comment as obsolete, as it asked a question on a post of mine, which I edited the post to address, and the asker accepted the answer (thus indicating that he accepted my response, I assume). So the original comment is now obsolete. However, there is another comment responding to that...

discussion comments flagging

Jon Ericson

@IsaacMoses Looking at the notes we took at the time, it seems the developers ran into problems implementing it. (But I don't really know the details.)

TRiG

7:38 PM

> “I ended up sitting next to a … man who jumped out of his seat the moment we had finished taking off and proceeded to stand in the aisle,” a woman passenger identified only as Galit told Ynet. The man had asked her to move from the seat beside her husband to accommodate his religious beliefs, but she refused.

Jon Ericson

I can ask around.

Double AA

@TRiG I don't see what's wrong with standing up unless the attendants tell you not to. If they violate federal laws they can be arrested for violating federal laws. I still don't see any bigotry here.

TRiG

To quote sonofrojblake in the comments,

> If anyone else tried this behaviour on any other airline, the plane would be immediately diverted to the nearest available airport and the disruptor would be escorted off the plane in handcuffs… assuming they survived the initial confrontation with the air marshal. Note to Muslim potential hijackers – dress up Jewish, it’s a free pass to behave how you like on a plane with impunity.

Shokhet

@TRiG That's a little harsh for standing in the aisle.....even when the seatbelt lights are on....

YEZ

@TRiG If Muslim hijackers would stand in place, the world would be a happier place.

TRiG

7:41 PM

Incidentally, I recognise the name Son of Roj Blake from h2g2. He's something of a provocateur. He enjoys causing a fuss. Very intelligent, but sometimes quite childish.

Response from katydid:

> @sonofrojblake: you raise a good point. One of the recent plane diversions that resulted in arrest was because of a scuffle when someone wouldn’t let someoen else recline the seat back–that’s WAY less dangerous and aggressive than refusing to sit down and causing a fuss because someone can’t tolerate girl cooties.

(Which, incidentally, is what this is about. Of course it's misogyny. Misogyny doesn't magically become less misogynistic because it's based on religion.)

Isaac Moses

@TRiG Oh man. See, I was about to point out that it's important to separate between bad behavior (present) and thoughtcrime (depends on who's looking at it).

@TRiG Misogyny may well be present, but it needn't be for people to desire separation of the sexes. As @DoubleAA indicated above by comparing to separate bathrooms.

... so while that may be what this is about for you, AFAIC, the only thing worth getting worked up about here is the disruptive behavior

TRiG

@IsaacMoses I do find separate bathrooms odd. Especially in small cafés, wherein both bathrooms are identically a single room containing both a toilet and a handbasin.

Isaac Moses

@TRiG Well, yeah (re: two single rooms).

Double AA

@TRiG Would you call someone who prefers using a single-sex bathroom misogynistic? What about single-sex showers and locker-rooms?

TRiG

@DoubleAA Culture has a lot to answer for.

(If you're going to point out that this is an evasion rather than an answer, then ... yeah. I'll have to think about that one.)

YEZ

7:49 PM

There are so many differences in axioms at play here that I can't possibly see how this will be a productive conversation.

Isaac Moses

@YEZ By identifying and distinguishing them, which works as long as everyone's committed to civility

YEZ

@IsaacMoses Ok. So should we start with existence of a deity, objective morality, or somewhere else?

TRiG

Either way, sorry, but this computer has to switch off now. I'll likely be back again after eating, at which time I'll reply to anything that needs to be replied to.

YEZ

@IsaacMoses It'll be a long list is all I'm saying.

Double AA

Hehe I'm refined but I can't explain. That makes sense.

TRiG

7:52 PM

@YEZ As an incidental, I don't really consider myself to be a moral relativist. (I might be, depending on what definition of the term you're using.)

Bye (for now).

YEZ

@TRiG well, moral relativist is a relative term. (Heehee)

@DoubleAA Why does no one have that badge?

Double AA

@YEZ It was implemented 5 minutes ago. Give it some time to process.

@TRiG You have never struck me as a moral relativist fwiw

TRiG

In other questions, Why is this computer refusing to shut down?

Isaac Moses

@TRiG superuser.com/questions/ask

YEZ

@DoubleAA It seems like such a random assortment of badge requirements. What's the logic of being within 12 hours of an upvoted answer?

Double AA

7:57 PM

@TRiG Try banging on it!

Shokhet

289

Q: New three-tiered badge idea: Explainer -> Refiner -> Illuminator

The difference between a poor or meh question and a stellar question can often simply be someone understanding it and providing it a great answer. I can't begin to count the number of times I've justified re-opening a question as a moderator by saying: Look at the answer it got, though. This ...

discussion status-completed badges se-quality-project

YEZ

@Shokhet Oh I totally misunderstood the description provided at the badge page.

I thought you post an answer with a positive score, and then go and edit any question.

Isaac Moses

@YEZ Me, too.

Shokhet

@YEZ meta.stackexchange.com/questions/ask

Shog9

0

A: What's the refiner badge all about?

Lesson learned: don't write copy before coffee!

Isaac Moses

8:11 PM

@Shog9 Much better. Thanks!

YEZ

@Shog9 so this should become a dupe pretty quickly then. ping @Shokhet @IsaacMoses

TRiG

Hmm. The experience on a tablet is interestingly different. How do I reply?

Isaac Moses

@TRiG I think you can switch to the full-site view, then tap where you would normally hover and click.

Shokhet

8:28 PM

Just cleared 2500 rep.....was all excited to suggest my first tag synonym (noticed we have one question under tehilim, when it should really go under tehilim-psalms) ......but I don't have a score of 5 in that tag :(

YEZ

@Shokhet I had that problem. I even tried answering a question to get some score, but I didn't succeed in getting 5.

@DoubleAA can only mods make preemptive synonyms?

Double AA

@YEZ Yes. It's actually through a different tool-set than the way you can do it designed more for large scale tag changes

@Shokhet All done.

YEZ

@DoubleAA I wanted to make "sacrifice" a synonym of korban after repeatedly (=twice) trying the first before noticing the second.

Isaac Moses

@YEZ <sub>(Never mind that that's a misnomer. A more apt translation would be "approach.")</sub>

YEZ

@IsaacMoses I don't know. You wouldn't say "I went to Yerushalayim and brought a big fat approach with me!"

Perhaps "that which causes to approach (or come close)" but that would be rather cumbersome.

that-which-causes-to-approach

Isaac Moses

8:43 PM

@YEZ Only because people wouldn't know what I was saying.

... there's a standard English stand-in for korban, which is what one should probably use. It's just unfortunate that it happens to be not a translation and possibly misleading

YEZ

@IsaacMoses is it "sacrifice"?

Isaac Moses

@YEZ Got it in one!

YEZ

Woohoo!

Isaac Moses

In other news, "Decalogue" is much better than "Ten Commandments" and is standard English.

YEZ

@IsaacMoses Indeed. Still not sure if "approach" is the best for korban.

"Approacher" or "approachment" maybe. "Approachitude."

Isaac Moses

8:47 PM

@YEZ English probably doesn't have a single word that suits.

YEZ

@IsaacMoses That's why you have to follow R' Aharon Lichtenstein's lead and just make them up as you go along. Although he happens to know the Latin roots better than I do.

Isaac Moses

@YEZ "Connection"?

YEZ

@IsaacMoses No no, that's in any standard dictionary. "Proximator"

Isaac Moses

@YEZ Ouch!

YEZ

@IsaacMoses Connector would probably be better than connection, no?

@IsaacMoses Oy. How about "Juxtaposer"

Isaac Moses

8:58 PM

@YEZ I agree.

YEZ

9:09 PM

What does לבוד actually mean? (In modern Hebrew it means plywood acc. to google translate and is pronounced livud)

@yez Rashi sukka 4b s.v. pachos mishlosha

Monica Cellio

9:54 PM

@YEZ I don't think there's a single English word. While it's not a correct translation, when I need a single word I usually reach for "offering", which at least doesn't have the misleading implications of "sacrifice".

It is that which enables us to approach, but that doesn't compress well.

Shokhet

10:25 PM

@YEZ :) .....considered doing that, but realized that I probably wouldn't get the score too fast :P

HodofHod

10:39 PM

Finally someone who doesn't mold their beliefs to whatever situation they are currently in. I got to give respect to this guy Clint Eastwood, if his bible says there is no free will, he believes it. — SSpoke 5 hours ago

I don't even....

@majnemɪzdæn Was the Russian character to easy for people to type? ;)

Shokhet

@HodofHod Note that the guy got suspended for a week to "cool down"

Also see this and following comments

HodofHod

@Shokhet Yeah, I saw this, it's actually why I went back and edited this answer. I didn't expect him to unaccept it, though :D

Irrespective of that, there's this question: Given that Clint's answer there doesn't seem to fit any normative Jewish theology that I've ever heard of, is it deleteable?

Shokhet

11:09 PM

@HodofHod Can you delete an accepted answer?

(Or, can an accepted answer be deleted? .....not sure about the powers of non-moderators in deleting things)

HodofHod

@Shokhet I don't know if non-mods can, you need 20k to vote to delete answers anyway

(For those interested in the the topic of deleting answers that are inconsistent with Jewish thought, there is an extended discussion of that here: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/468/2013/10/4)

Relevant:

Oct 4 '13 at 3:47, by Monica Cellio

@IsaacMoses that's a good point (particularly the blasphemy angle). While we don't want to be in the business of declaring what is or isn't blasphemy, we can still reasonably say that the farther afield something is the more, and more promptly, it needs to add support. And now that users can get to their own deleted posts (recent ones anyway, or via comments in the inbox), the consequences are less dire. Undeletion after repair is possible.

Also relevant:

Jun 9 at 18:31, by Monica Cellio

@YEZ answers that are merely incorrect shouldn't generally be deleted, just downvoted. Answers that don't answer the question, fundamentally misunderstand the question, or are incomprehensible should be deleted. And then there are the things that are quasi-answers, like one-liners that need to be expanded; sometimes those should be comments, sometimes they should get post notices, and sometimes they should just go away, so use your best judgement.

Shokhet

11:42 PM

@HodofHod Do you think these comments should be turned into an easily findable Meta post? .....it's kinda unfair if site policy is buried in ancient comments somewhere (even if those comments are just common sense)

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