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1:26 AM
@egreg I wish my text editors would do that when I'm coding, so I can see how many braces I have open and closed at a glance
 
 
10 hours later…
11:23 AM
TeXnicCenter is now in alpha 4 after a quite long hiatus. I wonder how the development will be from now on, it's a nice editor.
Though it requires <whispering> Visual Studio </whispering> to build from source. :(
 
isn't texniccenter windows only?
 
It is. :)
Never tried to run it with Wine. :)
 
11:41 AM
@PauloCereda Indeed one must be a little dizzy to appreciate it; wine helps to get this dizziness.
 
@egreg it works too. :) The dizzier, the better. :P
 
@DavidCarlisle Hi, David!
@DavidCarlisle Nice puzzle with boxes larger than life, isn't it?
 
@greg, just looking around the site, clicking on random buttons...
You might hope if a package lasts since 1999 you'd get away without ever having to handle bug reports on it....
egreg sorry, by the way how does this @ thing work, the site normally shows people's display name but I assume you have to use their real account name for that?
 
@DavidCarlisle If you start typing an @, the system shows the connected people on the chat; in a comment to an answer or question, you can choose to whom you want to address the comment
 
@egreg, so it does here, and in comments on the main site?
 
11:53 AM
If you click on the arrow at the end of a chat line, then your line will be linked as a follow-up
 
@egreg, hey more clicky things to click on, yeh...
@egreg, last time I answered this many tex questions in a week I was using c.t.t over nntp in emacs and there was no clicky things at all
 
@DavidCarlisle If typing an @ and the initial letter in a comment shows nothing, it means that the notification will be automatic.
@DavidCarlisle You can also click on the avatars below the chat title on the upper right corner
 
@egreg: I have a friend who sings "Casa d'Irene" everytime he gets dizzy by drinking wine. :P
 
12:09 PM
@PauloCereda Nico Fidenco? Actually not one of my favorite singers. :)
 
@egreg I think it's him. :) I like only one song of him, "legata a un granello di sabbia", mostly because of the rhythm. Not that I like his performance. :)
 
12:51 PM
2
Q: How to install LaTeX package called "standalone" properly so I can get update with Synaptic package manager?

user6076How to install LaTeX package called "standalone" properly so I can get update with Synaptic package manager? I know I can manually download the file and install it.

 
@JosephWright If you're looking at breqn (and I see there's an open qn from @BrunoLeFloch with what looks like a bug) you might want to look at the linebreaking in MathML3, it would be good to have a mapping of that to (La)TeX. We added a lot of hints for automatic breaking and a lot of control for manual breaking. (Automatic breaking is far more important in MML than TeX as you don't know the line width in advance)
 
I really should write a general install guide for all my packages, which includes the multiple OSs and distributions.
 
@DavidCarlisle At the moment, it's on the 'to do at some stage' list, not the 'to do now-ish' one :-)
 
@MartinScharrer Fantastic answer. :)
 
@JosephWright yes well I know about that status, I've had projects in that state for a couple of decades:-)
Michael was doing breqn about the same time I was doing bm (almost at crazy in places) and we both took the time to understand the things so they'd work together. Can't understand a line of it now though:-)
 
12:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle I certainly think we want an option for auto-breaking, so MathML may well be a good model
 
@JosephWright of course MathML is a good model:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Different targets, thought, as people like @egreg want full control of the exact details of their math typesetting, whereas us mere mortals are happy if something legible appears :-)
 
@JosephWright You know there is a well known system out there that (more or less) implements Math Layout as described in Appendix G but gives full visual interactive control over the formatting as well. I'm not sure I can mention its name in tex forum though....
 
1:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle The software-I-will-never-mention-the-name-of? :)
 
@greg yes, that one.
 
the voldermort typesetting system?
 
@egreg: (Bela Lugosi's voice) I never use... Vord. :)
 
@PauloCereda Vhich softvare are you talkink about?
 
@egreg The unholy one. :P
 
 
2 hours later…
3:13 PM
@PauloCereda What about a Lua script along the lines of those by Daniel and tohecz for checking uncited references? This would be system independent: one could call it with texlua
 
@egreg Good idea!
Let me grab my Lua guide. :)
@egreg: maybe a standalone script or integrated with TeX?
 
3:28 PM
@PauloCereda A standalone script probably. I don't think it's necessary to call it during the TeX run.
 
@egreg Indeed. :)
 
4:05 PM
@egreg: I'm making progress!
 
2
A: How to distribute narrow expressions along a line?

egregTeX removes a glue item at the end of a paragraph, so \hfill$a+a=a$\hfill$a\cdot a=a$\hfill doesn't work. You have to use space that doesn't disappear: \hspace*{\fill}$a+a=a$\hfill$a\cdot a=a$\hspace*{\fill} (The one at the start might be \hfill, but it's good practice to use \hspace* when ...

@egreg: Would I even have a remote chance of defining \hfill* as `\hspace*{\hfill}, which would seem like a useful artifact?
@egreg Yoda says: "BibLaTeX encouraged to use everyone should be"
 
Interesting discussion in mod room about meta sites. There is pressure to reduce the unanswered questions: a good job that we seem to have seen this recently a lot on our own site!
2
 
4:24 PM
@BrentLongborough No you can't define \hfillto look ahead for a * (not without breaking everything else) Too much code assumes it's an unexpandable token even in unprotected contexts,
 
@DavidCarlisle Thanks - I guess I'll just have to call it zummat else.
 
`\hfill` is a TeX primitive; one might say

\usepackage{xparse}
\makeatletter
\let\@@hfill\hfill
\DeclareDocumentCommand{\hfill}{s}{%
\IfBooleanTF{#1}{\hspace*{\fill}}{\@@hfill}}
\makeatother

and `\hfill` should be protected enough for avoiding the problems David is mentioning.
 
@egreg Might be an issue inside a \romannumeral expansion, for example
 
@JosephWright Oh, yes.
 
Oh dear, the quote that comes to mind is "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
 
4:30 PM
But the LaTeX kernel doesn't use the \romannumeral trick, I believe.
 
(Not that I think anyone's angry here at the moment)
 
@egreg Probably not :-)
 
My LaTeX Companion arrived! :)
 
@greg, Try redefining hfill in a latex release on ctan and I give you about 2 seconds before the screams start to be heard. SomethingWillBreak{TM}
 
@PauloCereda Is that the Goossens-Mittelbach--Samarin one? Great book, mine's from 1994, very dog-eared. Parabéns.
 
4:34 PM
@BrentLongborough, some other blokes helped out on a 2nd edition a few years later
 
@DavidCarlisle I made a test document and LaTeX doesn't choke. :)
Of course not with \DeclareRobustCommand, but with \protected (courtesy of xparse)
 
@BrentLongborough Obrigado! (Agora não tenho desculpas para aprender.) :) It's the second edition, from 2004. :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Not possible in the kernel, I agree.
 
@greg, but you clearly have taste and follow manuals so your test document probably didn't put \hfill in an unprotected write or edef. real people do both those things.
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, so I see, now I have done my research -- sorry! I better start saving my pennies...
@PauloCereda Not only will you stand on the shoulders of giants, but you also have their book to help you balance...
 
4:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle \section{Ab\hfill cd} with \tableofcontents :)
 
@greg using supported latex commands is cheating, real packages out there realy use \edef, and so document authors would find things break even if they only used "clean" interfaces.
 
@BrentLongborough Indeed. Wise words. :)
 
@PauloCereda I got one copy for free from the publisher, because I said I was going to use it for my LaTeX course (which I deliver each year). But I made the department buy two copies for the library and I bought one for home.
@DavidCarlisle With \protected\def there's no problem in \edef nor in \protected@edef as \edef doesn't expand \protected macros.
Nor does \write
 
@egreg How nice! I bought from a bookstore, but they had to import the book. It took more than two months to arrive. And it was very expensive. :(
 
There's no problem also in \halign, as \protected macros are not expanded when looking for \omit
 
4:44 PM
@egreg stop tricking me with newfangled etex features, next you'll be confusing me further with lua or something. (Actually i do know about \protected, but my over-riding assumption when changing things is that Something will break, proved pretty acurate over th eyears)
 
@DavidCarlisle I agree completely. The kernel can't be rewritten with \protected, unfortunately. A job for LaTeX3.
 
@egreg: is it possible for an aux file to have more than one \bibdata?
(the script is evolving!)
 
4:59 PM
@DavidCarlisle Looking good! Just ordered it.
@DavidCarlisle Just think of the shenanigans @egreg could get up to if they'd built HaskellTeX rather than LuaTeX.
How would one kern "llT", I wonder?
 
@PauloCereda Yes, if you put more \bibliography commands. But this shouldn't be good practice. I guess this can happen with some packages. However, \bibdata can have a comma separated list of entries.
 
How I hate sans-serif, can't tell the difference between two ells and two eyes.
 
@BrentLongborough I know neither Lua nor Haskell. :)
 
@egreg Oh my! :(
 
@PauloCereda I wouldn't worry about multiple \bibdata
 
5:04 PM
@egreg Each is interesting in its own way. I have heard that Category Theorists absolutely adore Haskell...
 
@egreg Really? I think I can handle them. I'll probably read all bibs and treat them as if they were only one big file. Is this a good idea?
 
@BrentLongborough It might be, but I don't use CCC (cartesian closed categories); I'm more interested in abelian categories, where there's little computer science connected.
@PauloCereda I think so.
 
@egreg Thanks!
 
5:28 PM
@JosephWright Do they have a target percentage in mind?
 
@AlanMunn I don't think so - the main target seemed to be sites with lots of meta questions 'dangling'
The official topic for the 'mod meeting' was 'problem users': I could not really add anything
 
@JosephWright So is this what has prompted @NN to go on his meta answering spree? Or is that a happy coincidence?
 
@AlanMunn Coincidence, I assume
 
@JosephWright Time travel. :P
 
5:50 PM
@egreg: the script is almost ready. We need a name for it. :)
 
@PauloCereda checkcites?
 
@egreg cool! :)
 
1
Q: How to Convert XeLaTeX to Html

AkuI uploaded the working files with pdf output file to google docs here is the link docs.google.com I am trying to convert this file to html. I read previous post but did not get any workable solution. one time somehow I manage to get html output but the output looked like source tex file rather t...

I don't think this will end up being a true duplicate, since there are particular xelatex issues at stake, I think. I tried to get Aku to adjust the question, but all he did was change the question title.
 
6:35 PM
@egreg: can you test it for me?
 
@PauloCereda Yes, of course
 
@egreg: sent. :)
 
@PauloCereda It doesn't take into account that there can be \citation{a,b}
 
@egreg Oh! I think I can fix it. :)
 
@PauloCereda Look at percusse's comment on this one: tex.stackexchange.com/a/43308/4427 :)
 
6:46 PM
@egreg so true! :D
@egreg new script version sent. :)
 
7:03 PM
@PauloCereda Seems to work well; I tested it with two bib files and with commas in the argument. Of course not with two \bibdata commands, but that doesn't seem to be important. It works with biblatex, also. :) But what does it mean that copyright line?
 
@egreg Nothing much, I just thought all TeX-related scripts had the LPPL header. :)
 
@PauloCereda I meant the names. :)
 
@egreg Ah. :) You are the mentor and the beta tester. :)
BTW, did you like the set operations? I found it to be a cleaner solution to find uncited and undefined references. :)
 
7:17 PM
@egreg Version 1c fixes the issue with more than one \bibdata commands. :)
@egreg and version 1d fixes 1c. I promise it's the last one. :)
This Lua scripting was very nice. :)
 
7:37 PM
@JosephWright I'll probably only make it to the second half (about 11 P.M.) of tomorrow's "Answer the unanswered" session.
 
@lockstep Same here: I am out for a meal with my parents
 
@JosephWright Well, nobody forces us to stop at midnight. :-)
 
@JosephWright: I have a question to the expl3-documentation. There is described the letter f of a function. There you can read the following sentence: Note that if this function finds a space at the beginning of the argument it will gobble it and not expand the next argument What is the meaning of not expand the next argument? Does it mean that a space is like the first unexpandable token which can be found by f.
@lockstep: Related to your comment: I don't want to provide an answer. Up to know the OP doesn't give response to the comments.
 
@lockstep I'm an early-to-bed person :-)
@MarcoDaniel Yes. Ultimately, it's \romannumeral wrapped up :-)
 
@MarcoDaniel I'm fine with that, too. In a month or so the question may be closed as "not a real question" or "too localized".
@JosephWright Early in the morning? ;-)
 
7:46 PM
@lockstep That's the consequence ;-)
@JosephWright What -- This is ironic ;-) ???
 
@MarcoDaniel The way you get something to expand until TeX finds an unexpandable token is to do \romannumeral-`\Q#1 , which will stop when TeX finds the optional space or a non-expandable token.
2
 
We need a wider timeframe for tomorrow's session. :)
 
@JosephWright I didn't know this. Nice to know.
 
8:20 PM
@PauloCereda I'll try it.
 
@egreg Thanks. :) Sorry to bother with those versions. I love to write stuff, not as epic as @BrunoLeFloch. :)
 
can someone help me debug a problem? i'm getting an error when i run pdflatex on the following:
\documentclass{standalone}
\begin{document}
text before verbatim
\begin{verbatim}
some verbatim text
\end{verbatim}
text after verbatim
\end{document}
the error is:
ERROR: LaTeX Error: Something's wrong--perhaps a missing \item.

--- TeX said ---

See the LaTeX manual or LaTeX Companion for explanation.
Type H <return> for immediate help.
...

l.4 \begin{verbatim}
 
@RichardHansen What error?
 
@RichardHansen Pass the varwidth option to standalone
\documentclass[varwidth]{standalone}
 
@egreg You are too fast
 
8:29 PM
@egreg that worked, thank you!
 
@MarcoDaniel Been there, done that. :)
 
now to try to understand why varwidth was necessary... :)
 
Is there anything that would cause my table of contents to suddenly fail to list any of the chapters despite having previously worked. It now seems just to list the LOT, LOF but nothing else. (And yes, multiple runs of latex).
 
@AlanMunn No errors, no warnings?
 
@PauloCereda No. Nothing. It's really odd.
 
8:36 PM
@AlanMunn I'd go with a fragile command in moving argument
 
I think a fragile command would cause an error. My first idea is to delete all files (not tex ;-) )
 
8:53 PM
@MarcoDaniel I tried that, no effect. And none of the titles have anything fragile. It's really weird.
 
@AlanMunn And the files (toc, lof) were generated by the pdflatex? Is there any contents in the toc-file?
 
@MarcoDaniel The TOC file is generated, but contains only contentsline commands for the LOT and LOT. I'm using XeLaTeX or LuaLaTeX.
 
Seen on the Malaysian blog, actually on the TeX Community Aggregator, texample.net/community
 
9:12 PM
I wrote an answer to this SO meta question (and included some anecdotic evidence from tex.sx):
18
Q: Why is there not a bronze badge for 10 people favoriting a question?

PearsonartphotoThere's currently 2 badges for favorite questions: Favorite Question Question favorited by 25 users Stellar Question Question favorited by 100 users Why is there not a bronze badge for a question favorited by 10 users? This would fit with the pattern of badges for questions/answers, which...

 
@lockstep Upvoted of course :-D
25 are very high, regarding favoriting
very hard to achieve
 
@StefanKottwitz How many "Worthy Question" badges would you have earned by now? I'd have two, being close to a third one.
 
I don't know
@lockstep But from my 433 badges there's just 1 Favorite Question
 
@StefanKottwitz Indeed -- for me it's 1 out of 272.
 
@lockstep even promoted (you know, publicist), and with 76 upvotes exceptional, just to get 1 favorite question badge
@lockstep But it's ok, there are some badges for good questions, regarding votes and views, besides favorites
 
9:20 PM
We want the egregious badge. :)
 
I want the site to have a unique Good Soul badge, and I would like to see it awarded to @PauloCereda
6
 
@AlanMunn Very odd
 
@StefanKottwitz What about a "Retag Daemon" badge for ... yeah, whomever?
 
9:36 PM
@lockstep I owe this demon a lot of reputation, many others too, I suppose, because of his activity - so bring it here!
Reminds me, I have to read some of this demon
 
@StefanKottwitz Ah, ermm ... later. :-(
 
later?
 
@StefanKottwitz A blog entry about biblatex. Not yet.
 
@lockstep Oh, I did not mean that.
@lockstep I just meant browsing through your (especially biblatex) answers for inspitation.
 
@StefanKottwitz Speaking of biblatex, could you roll back your latest retag? I've tried to remove the tag from questions -- like we don't feature the tag for every queston tagged with .
 
9:49 PM
@lockstep I just meant browsing through your (especially biblatex) answers for inspiration.
 
@StefanKottwitz That explains some upcoming badges. :-)
 
@StefanKottwitz @JosephWright @MODS: Are such questions are welcome:
1
Q: Extract first, last and rest of tokens

Ahmed MusaThis question is related to Extract first & last characters of macro argument?. It seems that if, besides getting first and last tokens, one wants to accumulate the rest of the tokens, the solution is nontrivial. My solution appears convoluted. I wonder if David Carlisle can instantly pull a...

 
@lockstep No problem, I rolled back. Was automatically, as it's the topic bibliographies and "bibliography" in the title pointet to it
@lockstep side effects ;-)
 
@StefanKottwitz If a question is not specifically about , I might leave the general tag alone.
@StefanKottwitz And please, don't spook the sockpuppet scripts. ;-)
 
@lockstep It makes a general tag such as less useful, if a lot of related questions miss the tag because some more specialized tag is appropriate
 
9:58 PM
@StefanKottwitz I know that the situation with respect to bibliographies/bibtex/citing/biblatex/natbib is somewhat unfortunate. OTOH, would you, say, add the tag to every question?
 
@lockstep Browsing through a user's answers is common. And, I have many more votes left to spend today on many answers and questions
@lockstep listings is not completely verbatim, but it deserves a source code typesetting tag somehow
But I agree: if the question is specifically about the package, the more general tag might not be necessary
as a searching user for a solution regarding this package could use this tag
 
@StefanKottwitz My rule of thumb is: If a potential answerer for one "child" tag might not be especially versed in a "sibling" ( vs. ), then it might not be worth it to add to both types of questions.
@StefanKottwitz One more thing: I expect to surpass in the not-too-distant future. We might end with just biblatex/citing/bibtex.
 
@lockstep I've got more than a thousand math books in my shelves, but I'm not experienced with bibtex or biblatex :-)
@MarcoDaniel The question is ontopic. It's perhaps a bit of a conceptional challenge, hard to understand possibly, but I don't see a problem.
 
10:26 PM
What great answers did we have today? Just don't want to miss one.
 
10:39 PM
@MarcoDaniel I finally figured it out. I had a spurious \end{document} in my first included chapter (which I had just added).
 
10:50 PM
@AlanMunn Bad boy!
 
11:05 PM
@StefanKottwitz awww thanks! <3
 
11:15 PM
I had to demote a book in order to fit TLC in my shelf. :)
Goodbye boring queueing theory book. :D
 

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