@barbarabeeton <3

@MaestroGlanz Oh please. Seriously?

@Johannes_B Indeed, a custom design would be in error suppress mode like \renewcommand{\design}{\titelnummer \titel \hfill \autor}. Any non existing wouldn't be printed. So a typo just leads to no output of this macro. This would be common with all used songs (this is for songs), so this would be an apparent error. If I do it without it, I either have to define a list of standard meta data (which I will probably do for other reasons) or define a "securing" macro which leads

to \renewcommand{\design}{\sec{\titelnummer} \sec{\titel} \hfill \sec{\autor}}

For an end user, who is not that much tex safe, the first version is much more convenient. - So: seriuosly

@MaestroGlanz moderncv is a very fixed and non-extendable class. As Ulrike noted, biblatex deals with defined/set fields in a bit more elegant way than all the CV classes out there try to do.

Designing a layout is a complex thing. That's why there are graphics designers and layouters all there who get paid for it. Every schoolboy should not be able to do that.

@Johannes_B Just the mechanism should work like moderncv. So the structure should be similar. I had a look into moderncv and it isnt that complicated. If you stick to the way the other styles are done, this can be done. Not by a schoolboy, but done. A color scheme in moderncv can easily be done.

@MaestroGlanz And because it is so easy, it is so fixed.

I know what I want. You highly doubt that. My next approach will be converting errors to warnings. I read about that in the texbook (? or elsewhere). This might generate a lot of warnings, but would work. Constraint is, that it is only locally changed to a warning.

@PauloCereda:

(Alt)

@MaestroGlanz there is really no need to design it so the users are expected to generate errors, so no need to use error suppression. When programming in any language it is best (and least confusing for users) if you use that language idioms, and no documents run with errors turned off

@MaestroGlanz you can easily do that for package errors, but for primitive tex errors such as undefined command there is no mechanism for that, the nearest is \scrollmode as I put in my answer

@cfr this is a disaster, we already had too many green squares, and too many ducks, and now we have a duck in a green square :(

Errors and warnings are the most helpful things on earth.

@DavidCarlisle How can one have too many ducks?

@Johannes_B for other people, I of course never get either.

@DavidCarlisle I am just trying to use LibreCAD. Have you tried it out?

@cfr what about the Society for the Prevention of Inconsistent Letter Spacing?

@Johannes_B no:-)

@DavidCarlisle They can use the circular version I posted yesterday. But it doesn't work well as a profile image :(.

@cfr can he join your society ^^^

@DavidCarlisle, @egreg Anything else need to go into tex.stackexchange.com/questions/311910/…? I'm hoping I've covered it

@JosephWright Maybe a book could be written. ;-)

@egreg Sure :-)

@egreg On the interactive bit specifically, though: I wondered about \showtokens and expanding text therein, but I guess \typeout is as useful

In other news, new SSD seems to be working

@JosephWright I often use \showtokens to see the arguments that are passed to a macro: \showtokens{\#1=#1,\#2=#2}

@egreg Same here but I was not sure it helped with the matter at hand: perhaps I'll add it later (going out in a second). [I use \showtokens{#1:::#2} normally :-)]

@ChristianHupfer To be fair, 2 of his questions are duplicates lol

@Alenanno Somehow i can understand why people are searching for a template. :-(

@Alenanno That doesn't count, in my point of view. He is one of those careless users, not giving feedback, just sucking out the help

I never liked templates, they make me feel... restrained. Constricted in a very narrow path. I always grab code from here and there and make my own document exactly like @DavidCarlisle suggested.

@Alenanno Hear, hear.

@ChristianHupfer What I meant is that, he has asked too few questions for now.

@Alenanno That doesn't mean he should not accept working answers

@ChristianHupfer You mean in the dupes too?

@Alenanno Yes, why not?

@ChristianHupfer I guess I see your point. I don't have a definite opinion on duplicates. :P

@Alenanno Even if a question might be duplicate, this doesn't mean that the answers are quite similar (or dupes.) In this case, the effort of the answerer should be honored in any case

@ChristianHupfer Maybe, but it seems to me to be different than having an open question. :P

singing: Ich schieß den Hirsch im wilden Forst, im tiefen Wald das Reh (dadadadaa); den Adler auf der Klippe Horst, die Ente auf dem See; Kein Ort der Schutz gewähren kann, wo meine Büchse zielt.

@egreg latex-community.org/forum/…

@Johannes_B cross post

@egreg Oh how nice, can you share the link?

@egreg I posted the first post of the question before here. Look at the last reply by the OP.

@Johannes_B Impossible to follow.

@egreg I wonder what the OP is even trying to achieve.

@Johannes_B That's the point!

Guys, I hope I didn't sound too harsh:

@PauloCereda Bearer

@PauloCereda Duck Vader :-P

If you ring a bell and nothing happens, there might be two different reasons: Nobody is at home. Nobody wants to open the door. There is absolutely no (NO) use in ringing the door bell for a straight minute.

If you are worried that the person is hurt, stop ringi the freacking door bell and call the police/fire department or break in.

@Johannes_B Someone ringing the bell of your neighbour?

@TorbjørnT. Yep :-)

Everything is calm, me too. Thinking about cake helps a lot. :-)

How made the style choices here? brlcad.org

@egreg oops

@ChristianHupfer :)

@PauloCereda But you can be the duck of good news

@egreg oooh :)

Just looking at a mged tutorial. Seems i am a crazy person.

@JosephWright -- i can cope with \tracingall with plain tex, but latex adds so many layers that the buffer for my screen is soon overloaded, and i have to go to the log anyhow. i really wish there were some simple ways to say (in the middle of an "uninteresting" command expansion) that "i don't want to look at this right now; please shut up, just until this command is completed." without having to redefine the command in question.

@barbarabeeton Have you turned into Petr? ;-)

@JosephWright ooh

@JosephWright -- no, but i do have some sympathy for his position. when i am tackling the debugging of a gone-crazy equation number that depends on being within a chapter and section, even a minimal example puts out more lines than my screen buffer will let me see. so i have to edit the log to get rid of the unnecessary stuff. (and that's a relatively simple example. never mind when an author has gone crazy with self-defined alternatives.)

@barbarabeeton I suggest you try \tracingall with beamer :-)

@barbarabeeton David once mentioned that \tracingall in a document with \usepackage{tikz} is very fun.

@JosephWright ooh ^^

@barbarabeeton As we all know, the nature of TeX means that any abstraction at all means long traces

@barbarabeeton The problem with measuring code by number of lines in the trace is that it means all users have to be coding experts, and that each problem has to be solved with a custom solution

@JosephWright -- well, \show, \showthe and \message usually cut the headache down to a tolerable level.

@barbarabeeton Oh, certainly

@JosephWright -- last week, it took me over four hours to figure out what an author had done, that was solved by addition of one \end{list}! (she was using \def\xxx and \def\endxxx rather than nicely using \newenvironment. the concept was actually a rather good one, but the execution was dreadful.)

@barbarabeeton Of course, if one goes down the LuaTeX route things can look very different :-)

@JosephWright -- someday i may look at that, but for the present, there's no way it can be adopted at ams. we need stability and predictability. this is not the same as stasis, of which we are often accused (sometimes even by me).

@barbarabeeton What about a command defined by \DeclareRobustCommand{\foo}[1][a]{#1}? In order to see what \foo really does you need \expandafter\show\csname\string\foo\space\endcsname

@barbarabeeton But with \xshowcmd from xpatch you just need \xshowcmd\foo. ;-)

@barbarabeeton Oh certainly. I was thinking more that new code just for LuaTeX will often be \def\somecmd#1{\directlua{some.function(#1)} so not much shows

@JosephWright And Lua is conveniently lacking any show function.

@egreg Yes, well it's not my fault these don't just use e-TeX

@egreg As I've said elsewhere, the fact that other languages don't allow \tracingall equivalents is to me very odd

@egreg -- obviously i shall have to do some more studying of these possibilities. thanks for the pointers.

@JosephWright well, many languages allow you to linearize the program run in a debug mode... It quite depends on the debugger as well (remember that e.g. in C++, the compiler only includes the debug metadata, and you have a variety of debuggers at hand)

raytrace thingie crashes :-( no helpful output at all.

@yo' I'm sure: just as I say odd to me as a macro programmer that I can't \show or \tracingall anything I want

@yo' Also the idea of a 'debugger' is odd: that's what the log is for :-)

@JosephWright this makes me lolz. But I'm sure there're debuggers that debug to a file :)

@yo' I suspect that most programmers don't expect to track every function's definition through in the way we do: I really don't know how they do debugging :)

@PauloCereda I am, alas, a most humble low-rep user and TeX wannabe who has nonetheless developed a hankering for a duck. (Or hand-puppet equivalent.) I cannot edit the punch card, though! :( If I put in an entry, could you punch the card for me? I live in hope....

@Davïd Sure, of course! :) And you have a high value in the community!

Third time that door ringing idiot is around.

@JosephWright well, remember most programmers rely on dozens of libraries whose complexity is much higher than TikZ' or beamer's

@yo' I guess: for most 'core' programmers in the TeX world I guess there is an assumption that familiarity will extend to basically 'all of the running code' (i.e. that @DavidCarlisle or @egreg or Frank or Petr or ... could write an entire format from scratch if required)

@JosephWright you forgot to mention a chap whose name happens to be Joseph who'd be able to write expl3 from scratch :-)

@yo' Nah, Frank and Chris (and @DavidCarlisle?) did that

Mumble, wrong @Davïd (@DavidCarlisle) the first time :-)

@JosephWright It depends on how much the programmer knows the inner workings of the language. :) I use a couple of libraries myself and I usually track the error stack until to the triggering point. :)

@JosephWright Yeah ... that's why I try to stay out of here for the most part. =/

@Davïd Don't let my mistakes put you off :-)

@Davïd Do you get a ping everytime?

@Davïd well, you know you could change your nickname if this annoyed you, right?

@yo' yo, that's a good idea, yo!

:D

@yo' Like IamNotDPC?

@Johannes_B DND - @Davïd is Not @DavidCarlisle

@yo' Ḋavid should work:-)

@JosephWright @PauloCereda @cfr (or any other ducks) I was watching keeping ducks under control this afternoon:

@DavidCarlisle Sounds fun

@DavidCarlisle Where?

OMG YES

@PauloCereda I was hoping the dog got rebellious and ignored instructions and ate the ducks, but not today

@DavidCarlisle You are mean!

@DavidCarlisle Erm, you know that ducks can fly and that dogs are not noted for this

@Johannes_B Yes, Donald P. Cnuth. :)

@JosephWright I'm not sure indian running ducks can fly. That would make it tricky for the dogs

@DavidCarlisle CTAN updates I see

@DavidCarlisle Laptop mended so I can look at l3build

@JosephWright yes I held back graphics but pushed out everything else that I had pending yesterday.

Friends, any newspaper/newsletter class suggestions? I am looking at CTAN...

Hey Mr. CTAN, be careful or @Paulo is looking at you!

@yo' Hey mr. CTAN, put a TeX file on, I wanna build a newsletter...

Of course, @DavidCarlisle and @egreg will spot the musical reference. ^^

@JosephWright also xcolor announce so that's one more off the list needing luatex updates

Interesting observation with Time Machine restore: somehow it's logged me out of every website

@DavidCarlisle -- looks like a border collie. they can keep anything under control -- maybe even you.

@yo' Doesn't annoy me! It's kind of an honour.... ;) And I'm not around often enough for it to annoy others here. Too much. I think. I hope. :)

@PauloCereda Bach or Händel?

@Davïd we monochrome Dav[iï]d's should stick together. Far too many green squares and ducks around here.

@egreg Madonna, actually. :)

@PauloCereda you'll need to explain to him that isn't a biblical reference

@PauloCereda I know the Messiah, I don't think there's something about the Virgin Mary by Händel.

@PauloCereda see (he's so predictable)

@egreg :)

@DavidCarlisle Along with the high reps and unusually friendly atmosphere, there also seems to be a large number of those auto-generated "gravatars". Strikes me as an odd combination, actually!

@Paulo Then you obviously have another association than me: youtube.com/watch?v=PYF8Y47qZQY

@Davïd when you know the other people well, you don't need no faces :)

@Davïd We likely have more ducks also

@yo' Nice song too. :)

The song is called Music. :P

@PauloCereda so profound

@yo' that's what I thought he was referring to

@PauloCereda sorry I didn't make it till the end :( the percussion there is just awful to my ears :(

@yo' It is indeed. :(

@PauloCereda btw, speaking of music, you got a gtalk message

@yo' ooh hold the phone :)

Can someone help me with latex?

I am doing it for a school project.

and it doesn't work the way I think it would be working

@notorious well, the fastest way to an answer is usually a good question :)

I don't want to get downvoted

@notorious Unlikely

@notorious What's the question?

@notorious we are not like that

@Davïd I can't change my gravatar, or @DavidCarlisle would be disconcerted

I don't know LaTeX at all. I'm sure people would tell me to go look at documentation or something.

@notorious very likely, yes, if you want something like "do it for me" stuff

Here is what I have a problem with:

@notorious what's the problem?

@notorious You probably want \(8.4 \tmes 10^{23}\) to give inline maths ...

@notorious If \(8.4\times 10^{23}\) helium atoms Use inline math, not a display

Yes

@notorious Or, with \usepackage{siunitx}, you can simply do \num{8.4e23}

@notorious And, with the same package, you can type If \num{8.4e23} helium atoms, traveling at a speed of \SI{6500}{m/s}, perpendicularly collide with a \SI{0.5}{m^2} wall every \(2\)~seconds, calculate the pressure

how do you add the \usepackage{siunitx}

Do you just add it anywhere?

@notorious In the document preamble, that is, before \begin{document}

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{siunitx}

\begin{document}

If \num{8.4e23} helium atoms, traveling at a speed of \SI{6500}{m/s},
perpendicularly collide with a \SI{0.5}{m^2} wall every \(2\)~seconds,
calculate the pressure

\end{document}

@notorious ^^^^

Can you also do this in a text box like on math.stackexchange.com or is this only for creating documents?

@notorious They use MathJaX: no packages so you have to do it 'by hand'

Okay

@notorious MathJaX isn't TeX (it just uses some elements of TeX's math mode syntax), so it's not directly our 'area' :-)

@PauloCereda I had to change my duck numbers. Still no clue on the method? (Now only one language is involved.)

@JosephWright oh this working but live demo seems to get stuck at 0% for me codepen.io/pkra/pen/meLxzW

@DavidCarlisle Hmm same here: I think I'd heard vaguely that there was a plan to add siunitx support

@JosephWright github.com/mathjax/MathJax/issues/447

Before trying to write my own, anyone know if there is an arara directive for running Matlab?

@DavidCarlisle Oh yes, now I remember

@JosephWright of course even if mathjax re-fix it, if it stays in their contributed extension area it doesn't help on the stackexchange network, unless SE incorporate it into the config they use.

@StrongBad Someone somewhere may have written one, but nothing included by default.

@DavidCarlisle This I take your word for

@TorbjørnT. I was hoping the somewhere might be here.

@StrongBad Ask the other duck?

@PauloCereda do you know if someone wrote an arara directive for running a Matlab script.

@AlanMunn I still had no time to put my thoughts into it. :)

@StrongBad Not that I know of, but I can write one for you. :)

@PauloCereda I am reading some of the closer example I have found in your answer's here. Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed one.

@StrongBad Oh please poke me anytime, I can help.

@StrongBad: You can also ask us here: gitter.im/cereda/arara

@PauloCereda thanks

Is the wordcount package no longer included in TeXlive?

@StrongBad see the licence entry on the page you link to

That is what I assumed it meant. That is sad.

@StrongBad although you could query ctan if the catalogue entry is correct as the full text of the licence on the file is % This file has no restrictions on its use, distribution, or sale.

@DavidCarlisle I just saw that. Will do.

@DavidCarlisle Not sure what Debian legal would make of that line: it's not a license

@DavidCarlisle Are you involved in the new Top Gear:

> This whole show feels like someone used the internet to translate Top Gear from English to Swahili and then back into English again.

(theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/may/29/…)

@JosephWright that did occur to me, but it's not very different (and less restrictive) to the comments on tex it would also allow someone to re-submit to ctan with any licence they wanted, as there is no living maintainer that's all there is

@JosephWright Sometimes I hate Debian. I can see their point about only wanting "free" software, but the only way I can interpert that line is that the package is free.

@JosephWright was going to watch it later via catchup:-)

@DavidCarlisle Sounds like the best plan: skip the bits that don't work ...

@JosephWright Before I send an email, is there a better plan ...

@StrongBad First worth checking if CTAN simply have it listed as non-free as this work was done a long time ago

@JosephWright the old top gear wasn't uniformly brilliant either, to be honest:-)

@DavidCarlisle Oh, I didn't say I like Top Gear

@JosephWright was out all day watching tractors and ducks so TG clashed with more important things like food

@JosephWright LOL

@DavidCarlisle yay ducks

@DavidCarlisle Sounds good to me

@PauloCereda I think it was these (although different person and place)

@DavidCarlisle <3

@PauloCereda Have you seen this one:

@AlanMunn OH MY

@DavidCarlisle Are you sure those are ducks? They look very much like geese .... I'm afraid they are not covered by my society. Petty, perhaps, but I have a long-standing grudge.

@DavidCarlisle That doesn't cover modification.

@cfr OMG THIS IS TEH BEST AVATAR EVER