@DavidCarlisle Seen on c.t.t: (1) Hardly anyone is using picture anymore

@JosephWright LOL

Hey guys, is anyone using Btrfs in production? I'm using it in my laptop for about 1 1/2 year, but never on my workstation.

@egreg: Palmeiras brought an interesting player for next year's season: do you remember Zé Roberto? He played for Bayern.

@PauloCereda Yes, I remember him.

@JosephWright don't believe what you read in the internet:-)

@DavidCarlisle Don't worry, I don't :-)

@DavidCarlisle So you don't use emacs after all. Hmmmm.

:)

@PauloCereda really I use vi but I'm too ashamed to admit it, don't tell anyone

@DavidCarlisle And I'm an hardcore emacs at heart. <3

@David: why do I think we will use these quotes of ours later on for blackmail purposes? :P

@PauloCereda If you always tell the truth you have no fear of blackmail

@DavidCarlisle Even in the internet? :)

@PauloCereda so, what's the shortest answer to "Why do they speak Portuguese in Brazil" as asked while arranging our cards.....

@DavidCarlisle They were colonized by the Portuguese. :)

@DavidCarlisle Aliens

Actually, imprisoned and slaved, but that's too long for a card. :)

@JosephWright LOL I wub you.

@DavidCarlisle You didn't say it has to be correct, just short

@JosephWright This is deliciously evil. :)

@DavidCarlisle If you use vi, you must be a hacker, and are therefore a "person of interest"" to GCHQ. Please do not bring any of your digital equipment to my house, as you will be denied Wifi access.

@Brent.Longborough I d*mn well hope at least some of us have managed to be 'of interest' to them!

@JosephWright yes, but.., I meant "short" as in accurate but avoiding a treatise on European colonial history while putting up Christmas decorations

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@David: and we don't speak the European Portuguese, but rather Brazilian Portuguese. It's quite amusing (not mentioning ironic) to see Portuguese nowadays being a synonym to Brazilian Portuguese. :)

@JosephWright Nah, those gov.uk people don't use TeX, they use WordStar™

@PauloCereda we are used to that, there is a country North of you that doesn't speak proper English either

@DavidCarlisle :)

@Brent.Longborough Interesting

@Brent.Longborough Eles pegam o comboio ou o autocarro? :)

@DavidCarlisle Treaty of Tordesillas

@DavidCarlisle Is this short and accurate enough?

@JosephWright Of course, like many major corporations, they also use Excel for it's renowned word-processing and typographic capabilities.

@egreg ooh I forgot about that one!

@Brent.Longborough If they are using WordStar then I'd expect 123, surely

@PauloCereda I don't know, I can't speak Lusitanian Portuguese

@Brent.Longborough :)

(P.S. I have used WordStar on a CP/M machine)

@JosephWright Visicalc

@JosephWright Oh my, I love Lotus 123!

@JosephWright With punch cards? ;-)

@Brent.Longborough Could be, yes

@egreg Nope, 8" floppies, proper Winchester disk, etc.

@JosephWright :( Using punch cards is a very entertaining experience: there are vastly more ways to make something fail.

@egreg Almost certainly

@egreg Don't knock it, I once wrote a markdown-type language for text processing from punched cards. Read the cards, reformat, and print. In 360 Assembler. Those were the days. "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be"

@JosephWright I misread Manchester disk, oopsie.

@egreg I have used a system with no screen, but that was 'cheating' (the built-in screen had died so we had to make sure we typed in exactly the right set of commands)

@egreg The big issue for me with punched cards is finding a punch machine with lower-case support on the keyboard

@Brent.Longborough A tech version of those four yorkshiremen. :)

@Brent.Longborough You need bigger cards for them

Meanwhile, anyone understand tex.stackexchange.com/questions/219051/…? I can't see how the code in the question relates to the comment on the aim

@JosephWright The explaining comment is rather involved.

@egreg Yes, but the doesn't even attempt to draw a box

@egreg Or use any of the variables created

@egreg Or work at all (it's text width not \textwidth)

@Brent.Longborough The teletype stops and you change the printing head.

Nowt like a nice bit of EB Garamond before breakfast

@egreg I didn't have a teletype, only a line printer

@Brent.Longborough :)

@Brent.Longborough Very nice indeed! :)

@PauloCereda You can see the whole thing here.

@PauloCereda (Don't forget to zoom in to 100%)

@Brent.Longborough An email address with ligatures a day keeps the spammers away

@percusse Right. Unfortunately, my real name has no opportunity for historic ligatures... Snif!

Good maen

@ChristianHupfer 'lo

@yo': I see, Paulo infected you with his 'brev 'irus ;-)

@ChristianHupfer l'l :D

@ChristianHupfer 'yo

@PauloCereda hey! :D

@yo' yo! :)

^^ ooh yo-yo

@PauloCereda: Oh my ...

:)

@ChristianHupfer Who's on first sketch all over again. :)

@PauloCereda: Don't know that

@PauloCereda: Completely unknown to me...as to most Germans anyway ...

@ChristianHupfer whereas black and white American sketches about some sport totally unintelligible to anyone not from there are common knowledge in Brazil (it seems:-)

@DavidCarlisle: Baseball, I assume... As well as American Football ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Nope. :)

@David: quite amusing, the majority of Brazilian have no idea about baseball, Abbott and Costello, Monty Python, etc. :)

@PauloCereda neither do I :)

@PauloCereda You have to realise that for most of us here you are our main insight into Brazilian culture, are you suggesting we are getting a warped view?

@DavidCarlisle Oh my!

@David: you know our capital? Don't you dare say it's Buenos Aires, or else. :)

@PauloCereda Lisbon

@DavidCarlisle Oh my!

@PauloCereda some document @egreg pointed me at earlier today seemed to imply you were in the half of the world not ruled by Spain.

@DavidCarlisle Plain TeX document? :)

@PauloCereda might be an interesting plain tex project

@DavidCarlisle Fraktur? Some German typeset that for them. :)

@PauloCereda 1494, I guess it's hand written?

@DavidCarlisle Nah. :)

@DavidCarlisle Chancery style!

@egreg :)

@Cortizol it's far easier if you post a complete document (if only to confirm target linewidth) in a question on the main site, but just looking you have an align with no & alignment points which seems strange

@DavidCarlisle I use \usepackage[top=1.5cm,bottom=1.5cm,left=1.9494cm,right=1.9494cm]{geometry}

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I didn't put &. Problem is that second equation is too big, but, I will separate that fraction in two parts, that is probably easier solution

But it looks ugly for me to write a+b/c+d=a/c+d + b/c+d, to be honest.

hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs/…

@Cortizol Long math formulas are unreadable

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage[top=1.5cm,bottom=1.5cm,left=1.9494cm,right=1.9494cm]{geometry}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\begin{document}
Consider
\[
a_n=(n+1)\ln(n!)-2\ln(2! \cdot 3! \cdot \ldots \cdot n!),
\qquad
b_n=n^2+n
\]
and that
\[
\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{a_n}{b_n}=\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{a_n-a_{n-1}}{b_n-b_{n-1}}.
\]
Now we can compute
\begin{align*}
a_n-a_{n-1}
&=(n+1)\ln(n!)-2\ln(2! \cdot 3! \cdot \ldots \cdot n!)
 -(n\ln((n-1)!)-2\ln(2! \cdot 3! \cdot \ldots \cdot (n-1)!))
\\
&=(n+1)\ln(n!)-n\ln((n-1)!)

OK, there's a = in excess in the last line.

@egreg a present for you: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/219104/…

@DavidCarlisle WOW!

@egreg I left it to you, but then I couldn't resist I had to see what it looked like, then I wish I hadn't:-)

@DavidCarlisle Impressive!

Via mod chat, a totally bonkers question

@JosephWright Maybe someone wants to win some sort of children's game. :)

@egreg Thank you. That is really elegant solution. You add an extra line to explanation, great :)

@Cortizol Divide et impera said the Romans: “divide and conquer”.

@Cortizol The reader can concentrate on the main topic (the numerator).

@egreg destroy and conquer :)

@yo' They didn't necessarily destroy towns, if they submitted.

@egreg that's an almost empty set :)

@yo' Oh, no! Several towns decided they couldn't resist. Maybe after having seen their neighbor's town disappear. ;-)

@egreg yeah I know

@JosephWright I am sitting outside the library right now checking mail, but the color question made me laugh so hard, that i am feeling comfortabely warm.

@Johannes_B :-)

When a guy is mad:

It would be awesome if this dude replies. :P

I was gonna say burn down instead of shutdown. :)

@PauloCereda lol. Well, I've never trusted to these next-working-day services.

@yo' In my case, two-weeks service. :)

@PauloCereda oh

@PauloCereda What happened?

@JosephWright A computer purchase. The product got damaged mid-delivery by the carrier, they sent me another, but the carrier hasn't reached here yet. They had to deliver my new computer at least 5 days ago.

But their call center is absolutely the worst thing ever. No one is even close to being helpful.

WAT: iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/crows-understand-analogies

Hello everyone

@GigiButbaia Hello

I have one problem with latex document, when I try to compile it as pdf (I'm using TexNicCenter), I get this error: "pdflatex> I can't find file 't8menc.def'" what does that mean? (I'm using babel package)

@GigiButbaia That something is trying to load fontenc with an encoding called T8m

anyway, I I think the problem is with miktex which renders pdf document. I have tried updating miktex but it said that server didn't respond

@GigiButbaia 'Works for me' with an up-to-date system, but no weird encodings. As you are using fontspec it will be EU1/2 (XeTeX/LuaTeX)

Does anybody know offhand how to vertically center just a few cells in a TikZ matrix? Adding nodes = {anchor = center} vertically centers all cells, which is not what I want.

Can't immediately find an answer just searching the site.

@JosephWright May you join this two accounts, please? tex.stackexchange.com/users/69407/bert and tex.stackexchange.com/users/69411/bert

@karlkoeller Only the staff can do merges nowadays

Hello ppl

@bardzo Hello

@JosephWright You know how lualatex work?

@bardzo More-or-less :-)

@DavidCarlisle is probably more of an expert :-)

I ask a question, but nobody would like to answer me

@bardzo I think that is unlikely: do you mean perhaps you've not had an answer yet?

Tell me how I can compiled the text and save all information to separately file

(sorry i write slowly, my english is poor)

@bardzo What information?

and next run tex again and read information from this temp file and make pdf

all inside luatex information

all signs, font, spaces etc

dump all information to a file

@bardzo Depending on your exact requirements, the answer is perhaps 'you cannot'

look this oi58.tinypic.com/k49ke0.jpg

i see the big graph in lua

@bardzo You can arrange using tex4ht to reprocess text from a DVI file, or using LuaTeX it is possible to do similar things, but that is complex

all information about (x,y) of any char, and

@bardzo Looks like either a DVI file or a PDF!

ok, You are expert. Show me any working example

dvi lost information about line

i need information : line start , letter a, b c.... stop line

@bardzo You could dump the output box information and pull apart the trace, but this is tedious

chapter etc. is not neccesary

can You show me any example?

@bardzo For example

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}

Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.
Hello world.

\showoutput

\end{document}

and look at the result in the log

@DavidCarlisle, @egreg Any other obvious approaches here?

show output is not exactly accurate digits

@bardzo Huh?

only 5-6 digit, not exactly, second trouble not showing space

@bardzo TeX only works to five d.p.

in print mode is not normal 16 bit number

@bardzo TeX doesn't use spaces between words, it uses (stretchable) glue

@bardzo TeX uses integer mathematics in sp and displays results as pt

@JosephWright So nobody at TeX.SX is on the "staff"?

@karlkoeller No

@karlkoeller Staff => StackExchange employees, based in New York

@JosephWright Who to ask, then?

@karlkoeller Has to be done via 'Contact us'

@karlkoeller The user has to ask for a merge

@JosephWright Oh, I see....

@karlkoeller Some sites had issues where mods made bad calls on merging accounts, I think

@JosephWright is possible to show me any other example with lualatex?

@JosephWright Please look this oi58.tinypic.com/k49ke0.jpg

@JosephWright That's what I told @bardzo in an answer the other day..

@bardzo I'm not sure what you want: the trace output is the TeX description of where everything is

@DavidCarlisle Do you know whether LuaTeX offers any alternative here? I'm wondering about the way that for example hyphenation points can be marked up, but I have a feeling that is done before anything is actually shipped out (hooking in to the paragraph breaker)

I need only 'correct' some glyphs

I'm no need change everything. I use xelatex i canot read pdf

@JosephWright possibly but @bardzo didn't answer my question in comments there what the real use case is.

therefore i think i can read inside data/ inline data directly from lualatex

@DavidCarlisle I answered You look oi58.tinypic.com/k49ke0.jpg

@bardzo I can not understand this at all, kerning and glyphs are set by teh font so if you want to over-ride that you know that before Tex sets anything, why do you need to know the details of tex's typesetting, rather than just set things up so it does whatever you want initially?

@bardzo TeX does not use spaces

@bardzo that's more or less what microtype does, make (minor) adjustments to character shapes to help with line breaking

@bardzo see

@DavidCarlisle because tex add some more. not only kerning, tex add spaces, interlines and

chapters fit to page

@DavidCarlisle ok, show me working example

@bardzo Dude, people in here just want to help. :) Don't ask for things like this.

@bardzo texdoc microtype see section 3.3 font expansion

[my english is to little to undestand all what Your write] yes this is potentialy trouble

google translation is not good

@bardzo my comment or Paulo's ?

@bardzo I see, sorry. :) Just take care, sometimes the translation can sound really really rude. :)

Paulo

@DavidCarlisle I guess mine (confirmed ^^).

@bardzo oh OK (if you use the "reply" feature, the the system highlights the comment to which you are replying (the arrow at the right hand end of each box, or from the menu at the left)

@DavidCarlisle I guess left and right were swapped, the comment got starred. :)

@PauloCereda I can always unstar if required

@JosephWright Nah don't worry. :)

;(

any example? any code? 3 days of writing, dictionaty, graph and nothing more?

how dump all inline data from lualatex to file

ok, many thanks

bye

@bardzo You said that you only want to move a few objects on the page. I suggest that you post a question on the main site about how to move those objects, with a specific example.

@AndrewCashner I dont know how move objects

@AndrewCashner I'm guessing tex.stackexchange.com/questions/218306/…

Yes this is my question

@bardzo Are you not happy with how LaTeX spaces the characters? Would you like to adjust the width of certain characters?

yes, and no. I have more than one glyph of 'a'

tex good working for me. but how I can tell tex the glyph a have 2-3 variants?

@bardzo What kind of variant do you mean? I think there is only one glyph for lowercase, roman (not italic) 'a' in any font. Maybe I am wrong.

yes, in normal font is only one variant of glyph

@bardzo: Don't get me wrong, but I think language is the great barrier here. :( Sometimes, the sentences don't make too much sense or sound a bit rude; this might scare people. Besides I think there's a little concept/taxonomy problem as well: words or terms that mean different things depending on the context, or things that exist in one context but not in another (for example, strings are a common concept in programming, but they do not exist in the TeX world -- there's only a stream of tokens)

@AndrewCashner oi58.tinypic.com/k49ke0.jpg but I have more than one

@PauloCereda ok, meybe You are true

If I wrote something rude please pardon

@bardzo You want to make one glyph wider? You hope this will fix a spacing problem?

@AndrewCashner yes, I have 3 different size (width) glyph 'a' in my ttf font, Yest fix spacing problem

@bardzo You prefer to have the wider glyph 'a" instead of just having wider spaces in the line?

@bardzo Is this your own custom-made ttf font?

Yes I make if my own

@bardzo I mean, did you make the font yourself?

yes I need sometimes wider, sometimes shorter glyph 'a'

@AndrewCashner yes, i make sometimes font

@bardzo In my own experience, TeX adjusts the spacing very well on its own. It is even better when I \usepackage{microtype}. You can adjust the settings for that package, too.

@AndrewCashner yes, therefore I would like to use Tex to breaking line and breaking chapter

@bardzo In your font, how would you select a different glyph of A? (In any software)

number of glyph , every glyph have a number

@AndrewCashner You know LuaLatex? Meybe You write me a source code to write all inline data to file?

@bardzo I think @AndrewCashner meant what are the criteria for choosing which of the variants you would use

criteria is a small as possible spaces in line, or manualy change in the external program

@JosephWright thanks

@bardzo Slow down, please. I am just trying to understand your problem.

@bardzo Do you know how to use TeX to select a particular glyph from your font by the glyph number?

@AndrewCashner As I understand it, the idea is to vary which glyph is used depending on the line length so the selection is 'dynamic' (not the same as for example a 'rare' ligature at the end of a word or something)

I try to tell my problem. And my language is not very flexible, and limited vocabulary.

@AndrewCashner The 'correct' glyph is not known before the trial setting of the paragraph, I think

@JosephWright meybe 'after' breaking the paragraph.

@bardzo I don't know TeX internals deeply. For that I would need to read the whole TeXBook by Donald Knuth, at least. The book explains how to change TeX's output routines.

@bardzo The problem is this really requires a re-write of the paragraph-breaking algorithm, as changing the word length will change the greyness which ...

@AndrewCashner Nothing to do with it

@JosephWright My ignorance is showing.

@AndrewCashner :-)

@AndrewCashner You've thus-far dodged being on the kernel team, so we'll let you off

@JosephWright  exactly, rewriting algoritm. But if it is easyly meybe may only need to save the temporary internal data tex to file and then read back.

@JosephWright :) I really would like to contribute eventually, but ...

@JosephWright When TeX builds the paragraph, does it adjust the glue in each line based on "badness" ratings? Am I even close?

@bardzo I'm not sure what temporary data you are looking for: perhaps \tracingparagraph=1

@AndrewCashner Yes, the whole point of glue is it has stretch/shrink so can be altered before being set

@AndrewCashner One can argue for more sophisticated models but TeX single 'badness' optimisation does a surprisingly good job

@Joseph So in theory, at some point in the algorithm, based on a specified degree of badness, could you do something else instead of adjusting the glue? Like change the width of a character?

@AndrewCashner Yes, or you could do trials with different widths 'up front'

@AndrewCashner Still requires a rewrite of the algorithm, doable in LuaTeX via a callback but non-trivial

@bardzo Did you follow that?

@AndrewCashner Frank has been fiddling about with this for other reasons

@bardzo I don't think you answered, do you know how to select one glyph from the font using TeX?

@JosephWright no, I see it first time, I'm read but here are no source code. How do this callback.

@bardzo If so, that is the easy part. The hard part is inserting something into the algorithm, so that if the badness was too much, then you could insert your new glyph.

@bardzo You would also have to write an algorithm to determine which glyphs to replace in each line.

@AndrewCashner No, I'm not know

@bardzo As it says in the linked post, the code written is only for ConTeXt and isn't really 'production ready': reimplementing the paragraph breaks is as I say non-trivial and has not been a priority for anyone.

@AndrewCashner meybe I have to write this algorytm, bu I need read all glyph in one line, and all box

@bardzo I just wanted to understand your question and find out if I knew enough to help you. I think I understand it now, and I can tell you, I don't know how to help you. I think the result of your new algorithm would not look very good, but that is only my opinion. I think it would be a better use of your time to learn how TeX works now, before trying to alter it. Either way, good luck.

I'm read this wiki.luatex.org/index.php/TeX_without_TeX

is possible to write all vlist, hlist etc. to file?

@bardzo I am trying to write very simply. I want to encourage you. I also think it is important to have a realistic goal.

[hope died]

@bardzo As others have said, TeX does write this information to files. You can access the internal calculations through \tracingparagraph. TeX writes its full format information either to DVI or to PDF, which contain all the spacing information. I suppose you could try to rewrite the PDF code by hand. That is even farther beyond my knowledge.

many thanks

for all

I'm sorry if I offended anyone writing

bye

@bardzo No offense taken. I am glad we could talk through it.

@bardzo Likewise, I only meant to help in a friendly way. You are very welcome in our community.

Have a good night everyone!

@bardzo It is hard to get along with a foreign language , everyone can tell, who is not native speaker. To help on, you should say where you are from (the country), and post the question in your native language. Perhaps, someone is able to help and translate your postings or give advice where to find forums in your country.

@bardzo No offense taken, so no worries. :) Sometimes, translators do a terrible job.

Alert! Mico, aka Jabba the Hutt, is less than 2000 points from 100K

@egreg good subtraction skills!

@DavidCarlisle I'm a math teacher, after all! Did you see also my addition skills in a recent answer?

@egreg no, I guess I saw the question, I'll see what you did:-)

@egreg well in that case you seem to have avoided doing the arithmetic

@DavidCarlisle That's how I usually do. ;-) echo '100000-98162' | bc

@egreg thought as much, they seemed such big numbers for you to manage in your head:-)

paulo@alexandria ~$ expr 100000 - 98162
1838

@egreg: ^^ :)

$ etex '\message{\the\numexpr100000 - 98162}\bye'
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.15 (TeX Live 2014) (preloaded format=etex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
1838
No pages of output.
Transcript written on texput.log.

@DavidCarlisle oy

:)

By the way, I have chosen my new machine name! :)

@PauloCereda This requires spaces around the sign.

@PauloCereda any sight of the actual machine?

@egreg It does. Quite weird. :(

@DavidCarlisle Nope. :( Now the American Dell is now interested in my case. Dell Brazil gave me 110% (what?!) that my machine will arrive tomorrow (late 6 days, but it will be delivered).

Only thing I had to do is bother the owner. :)

@PauloCereda being rude about them on twitter works then?

@DavidCarlisle Apparently it does! They track all mentions to their company.

I don't want to take them to the court (I already did in the past) because our justice is very, very slow. So I tried some dirty tactics.

@egreg Do you still feel like not answering this question without an MWE? It seems like the question should be answered at some point, as it might be valuable to other users on the site, and it looks like we're not getting an MWE anytime soon.

@AdamLiter No. Lacking a MWE it will soon be closed as unclear. Guessing is useless.