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yo'
12:38 AM
anybody with Debain/Ubuntu system TeXlive please?
 
 
2 hours later…
2:10 AM
@yo' I'm using 16.04 LTS and installed TL via terminal. Can I help you?
@DavidCarlisle I see. How long ago was this an issue? Did it remain an issue for a few years after Mik and TL became commonplace?
 
 
2 hours later…
cfr
4:18 AM
@JosephWright Was there a change of mind re. xparse? I see that the version currently available still causes the same issues for code which relied on the short-cut. sidenotes is currently broken., for example and needs a fix in the preamble:
\makeatletter
\renewcommand* \@sidenotes@multisign {3sp}
\makeatother
[That is, it is not just my code, which I already changed anyway.]
 
 
2 hours later…
6:08 AM
Good morning EVERYONE.
 
7:01 AM
@cfr We've got a change checked in that will allow this to work but it's still not really what I think we want to support: there's a team meeting on Thursday and I'm reluctant to release an update until we've got some kind of agreed position on this
@yo' I have one on LTS for testing
 
7:40 AM
@Kurzd I forget the dates really but I started using tetex and so stopped regularly having to get individual packages from ctan some time last century.
 
8:03 AM
@DavidCarlisle Thoughts on @cfr's point above?
 
@JosephWright it's complicated:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, so 'wait for the team meeting'?
 
@JosephWright yes
@JosephWright unless we spend the entire meeting discussing ways to put an ogonek on an x
 
@DavidCarlisle Could be of course
@DavidCarlisle As Frank says we have quite a list
@DavidCarlisle Overall though I think having the meetings does work
 
yo'
8:34 AM
@Kurzd Thanks, I'll come to you later with a small request, if you don't mind.
 
9:05 AM
@cfr I will make sure we get a decision this week and expect to do a release by the weekend
@cfr We'll document the decision one way or the other, too
 
9:16 AM
@JosephWright tikz quarks bite again:-)
1
A: Why does adding a \node in a \graph result in an endless loop?

David CarlisleYou are executing \tikz@signal@path Which is defined by \def\tikz@signal@path{\tikz@signal@path} Which makes a tight loop, and as it is tail recursive it uses up no stack or memory so will loop forever.

 
@DavidCarlisle Saw that
@DavidCarlisle Changes in our setup mean of course that quarks are much less important than then once were ...
 
@JosephWright the trick I suggested last time of using a \protected quark doesn't work here, it stops looping but just dies somewhere else so I restricted to saying why it looped rather than suggest a workaround.
@JosephWright oh no I found that old answer, it didn't make it work then either just made it give a more understandable error, so this is really just the same issue.
 
9:38 AM
@DavidCarlisle Sure: I meant that the speed-up from \def\foo{\foo} isn't so useful if you are mainly using \(pdf)strcmp
 
@JosephWright yes, well anyway I didn't mean to imply our use of quarks had any direct bearing on pgf one way or the other.
 
@DavidCarlisle Will be interesting to talk with Till when we (UK-TUG) sort out the TikZ meeting
 
10:40 AM
Quack!
@JosephWright ooh cannot wait @DavidCarlisle's talk about picture mode
 
yo'
11:22 AM
@PauloCereda Boo!
 
@yo' /scared quack
 
11:40 AM
@ChristianHupfer Du brauchst natürliche Linguisten wie mich, um Sorgen um Deutsch zu machen
 
yo'
@PauloCereda :) How do you do?
 
@DavidCarlisle :D :D
 
@yo' Fine, but in a hurry, as always. :) And you?
 
yo'
@PauloCereda this sound familiar. Moreover, my laptop charger is home alone :-(
 
@yo' uh-oh
 
yo'
11:48 AM
@PauloCereda yeah. 73% and decreasing :-(
 
@yo' oh no
 
@yo' No hamster in a wheel to load the battery? ;-)
 
12:08 PM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle: Are there any plans for a eTeX 2.0, i.e. extending the maximal number of registers again, i.e. towards 32bit - numbers?
 
12:20 PM
@yo' Look on the bright side, you can leave work early with the excuse that you cannot get anything done without that charger.
 
@PauloCereda A relative of yours? tex.stackexchange.com/a/355973/36296
 
anyone have a pointer to a bst file that formats the first author differently than the rest? I need it for inspiration for a bst modification.
 
12:36 PM
@samcarter ooh
 
yo'
@TorbjørnT. I got another one from the IT guy here. We've got a very nice IT guy :)
 
@ChristianHupfer I doubt it (luatex already has twice as many as etex and needs a lot less as you can use lua variables in most cases) so there is little incentive for anyone to extend etex itself.
 
@yo' You could turn the wifi off. :)
 
yo'
12:51 PM
@PauloCereda the cable wifi?!
 
@ChristianHupfer etex 3 that would be, etex2.x is what we have now
 
@yo' ooh
I was going to suggest to use cable instead of wifi. :)
 
1:14 PM
@DavidCarlisle Thanks, I was not aware that we are already at eTeX2.
 
1:46 PM
@ChristianHupfer v2 was 1998 I think (or at least that's the date in the manual)
 
2:12 PM
@ChristianHupfer There are things we might have asked for in 1999-ish if we'd known then what we know now, but with LuaTeX available and particularly since the death of Peter Breitenlohner there's no realistic chance of any further changes
@ChristianHupfer Registers is not a place I'd be worrying about (perhaps other than using a flat set up as in LuaTeX rather than a normal and extended pool)
 
2:28 PM
THERE'S ANOTHER DUCK HERE
/quacks in despair
 
just signed up, where looking for a nice icon...
 
@M.Duck 'ello!
 
...and that is how they met. It was love at first sight.
 
@wilx o.O
 
@PauloCereda Don't break the 4th wall! I am narrating from the future history books!
 
2:30 PM
@wilx That's Nicola's job!
@wilx: do you know this book by Nicola? dickimaw-books.com/fiction/kids/duck It's inspired in the very chatroom!
 
@PauloCereda I don't. lol
 
> Background
This story was inspired by Paulo Cereda's duck and arara, and chatting on TeX, LaTeX and Friends.
 
@M.Duck Quack
 
ooh more ducks
 
Quack. maybe I should change to a goose icon... :) Just wanted to see how the chat looks like. See you for now.
 
3:31 PM
@M.Duck ooh geese in parade
 
3:51 PM
@JosephWright I see ... well, I am not yet running out of registers ;-) I will have to look into LuaTeX, definitely, but not so fast ...
 
Gregorio requires LuaTeX... :(
@egreg ^^ not you. :)
 
@PauloCereda Enrico or the Fonts? ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer The chant thingy. :)
 
@PauloCereda Ah... well, for @egreg we would need \usepackage{egregspec} anyway ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer :)
@cfr: Quack!
 
4:05 PM
@ChristianHupfer are you even getting close to running out of registers?
 
@DavidCarlisle Not yet ;-) I think 90% of registers are left unused ;-)
 
@JosephWright seems to be the day for asking for etex extensions:-) (you've got to admire the in depth literate programming documentation of tex.web:-) tex.stackexchange.com/a/356013/1090
 
@DavidCarlisle Pleading for upvotes ? ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle LuaTeX job ...
 
@ChristianHupfer no:-) (I can't say I've ever noticed that restriction before, either)
 
4:11 PM
@DavidCarlisle Oops, to late -- ok, I'll remove the vote ;-)
 
meanwhile can you tell who awarded a bounty after it's been awarded, so the question page no longer has the banner?
@JosephWright yes
 
4:29 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, mouse-over the blue area
 
@samcarter ah thanks
 
cfr
4:48 PM
@PauloCereda Cwac!
 
@cfr There's a video in the favourties featuring a geese parade. :)
 
@PauloCereda I wonder who favourited it ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer <3
 
cfr
@JosephWright Thanks.
 
Well, cooking Pasta with Bologna sauce now ... till later on
@DavidCarlisle: Yes, \toks was indeed a stupid name, I should have looked into latex.ltx. I was just lazy
 
4:52 PM
@ChristianHupfer Oops
 
@JosephWright Yes, indeed... oops ;-)
 
cfr
@JosephWright I take it that suggesting the \renewcommand workaround for sidenotes should be future-proof as it relies only on the 2e behaviour? At least, that was my thinking in that answer.
 
@JosephWright in an ideal world \newtoks might have checked the csname wasn't defined:-)
 
@cfr Yes: we are not about to change \renewcommand :)
@cfr The entire 'using in a csname' business was never the idea for xparse document commands so this is all a bit 'interesting'
 
@ChristianHupfer in fact apart from its use in some lua initialisation for lualatex, \toks isn't used anywhere in latex it seems (it is used in the definition of \newtoks but only in messages so any non expandable definition would do there, including the definition you used:-)
 
5:25 PM
\begin{long} is a bad idea, since \long has a TeX-internal meaning. However, you have to use the \label inside your long or short environment, not outside, otherwise, it would use the last \@currentlabel from another \refstepcounter call, which could be anything (or just empty) — Christian Hupfer 8 mins ago
@ChristianHupfer could I suggest using toks instead of long ?
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, of course, but this time I remembered the internals ;-)
@DavidCarlisle: Well, actually \includeversion{long} is the bad idea, since that redefines \long
 
6:17 PM
@DavidCarlisle Hi David I have not undestand in English your second answer. Now I remove the link from the book what I understand, and I ask only information on used fonts.
 
6:27 PM
@Sebastiano which second answer?
 
6:53 PM
@ChristianHupfer Me, for example! (@PauloCereda ;-))
@ChristianHupfer @egreg Pasta alla bolognese famous all over the word except in Bologna!
 
7:27 PM
@CarLaTeX @egreg recommends: tripadvisor.co.uk/…
 
@DavidCarlisle How did you find that?
 
@JosephWright I asked @egreg for spaghetti recommendation of course.
 
@DavidCarlisle Based on location Chris seems more likely ....
 
@JosephWright or google
 
@DavidCarlisle :)
@DavidCarlisle We should get @egreg to come to UK-TUG and see what he makes of the free lunch ;)
 
7:37 PM
@JosephWright the new style ham and pineapple pizza lunch, or the old style dodgy college sandwiches lunch?
 
@DavidCarlisle I hope the new style one gets repeated :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Food troglodytes! Hahaha
 
8:03 PM
@CarLaTeX Come to UK-TUG too?
 
8:16 PM
@JosephWright (or @egreg) do you know anything about the issue with xetex here? the comments in the dvipdfmx sources seem very odd and refer to metapost generated files but I suspect relate to any files with negative coordinates for the lower left bounding box corner. It says it was an intentional change in tl2015 to require an argument passed to the driver? perhaps I should ask Akira. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/355984/…
dvipdfm-x/mpost.c says /* The new xetex.def and dvipdfmx.def require bbox->llx = bbox->lly = 0. */ but it seems wrong if the driver c code is making allowances for quirks in the driver-specific macros.....
 
@DavidCarlisle One for Akira in the first instance I think
 
@JosephWright readme says dvipdfmx team, maintained as part of texlive so i guess I'll ask on tl list
 
"Hi, i am an astronaut currently at the international space station and i just took this photo of earth. I want to recreate it with TikZ. Any hints?" Still waiting for that question.
9
 
@Johannes_B Have to see if we can get that via Twitter for the UK-TUG TikZ meeting!
 
8:33 PM
@JosephWright I'm Italian, I should go to GUIT...
 
@CarLaTeX Possibly, but you miss out on the 'dungeon' [@DavidCarlisle ;)]
@CarLaTeX We have more members of the LaTeX team :)
 
@CarLaTeX but you miss out on great British cuisine
 
@JosephWright :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle see tex.stackexchange.com/questions/146248/… and tug.org/pipermail/tex-live/2013-November/034456.html. I think that was a later thread too -- negative coordinates are a bit difficult.
 
8:51 PM
@UlrikeFischer thanks for the links.
 
@JosephWright My English is not good enough to understand the double meanings... :):):)
 
@CarLaTeX @DavidCarlisle will explain
 
@DavidCarlisle OMG you have put "British" and "cuisine" in the same sentence!
 
@CarLaTeX @JosephWright believes that he gets a special cheap deal to use a meeting room at Trinity College Oxford for UKTUG meetings, but the reality is that the room is cheap as it is in fact the worst meeting room possible. It is below ground, with hardly any natural ight, would be far too small if anyone ever came to the meeting, and has a projector that falls off the ceiling if you look at it.
 
@DavidCarlisle Next time you book something ;)
 
8:59 PM
@JosephWright the NEC perhaps?
@JosephWright the room you got the previous year was quite nice!
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes: it wasn't available (I struggle to get a decision on date early enough to get a choice)
 
9:22 PM
@DavidCarlisle Ah, now the joke is clear... I thought only in Italy there were such meeting rooms :):):):)
 
@CarLaTeX Piccata Milanese is unknown in Milano too, then? ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer The cotoletta is more famous!
 
@CarLaTeX Cotoletta Milanese? Never heard of it.
 
@ChristianHupfer Also the orecchia di elefante: ricettedelcuore.it/cotoletta-milanese-orecchia-elefante
 
@CarLaTeX Orecchia--> Ear? Ear of Elephants? :D
 
9:35 PM
@ChristianHupfer Oh yessss
 
@CarLaTeX That's disgusting .... Everybody knows that the trunk of an elephant is much tastier -- yummy ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Because it has the shape of an ear of an elephant!
 
@CarLaTeX I suspected that ;-) But I have not heard orecchia di elefante before neither...
 
@ChristianHupfer The elephant ear is veal! Hahaha
 
@CarLaTeX Of course...
 
9:40 PM
@ChristianHupfer Typical Milanese dishes
 
cfr
10:16 PM
@JosephWright The thing is, nobody said either not to or to do something else .... At any rate, not just me ....
@ChristianHupfer The ears must be bad if their luggage tastes better. Maybe its a survival mechanism.
 
10:46 PM
@DavidCarlisle No, but I've seen issues with some EPS files in the past.
 
11:04 PM
how to ask for help: -- Another hoop to jump through because of the ignorant TeX people. syntex(busy) won't be renamed when using os.execute above for some ignorant reason
 
11:35 PM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle ISS? Photo? TikZ? latex-community.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98701#p98701
 
@Johannes_B easy peasy:
\ Begin {definition}
A \ textbf {parametric curve) is a continuous map $ c: I \ rightarrow X $, where $ X $ is a topological space. Let $ (X, d) $ be a metric space. Then we define
\ Begin {equation *} \ label {key}
L (c) = \ sup \ left \ {\ sum_ {i = 1} ^ {h} d \ left (c_t_ {i-1} Leq \ cdots \ leq t_k \ in I \ right \}.
\ End {equation *}
As the length of $ c $ with respect to the parameterization $ h $.
\ End {Definition}

If $ h $ is reduced, the length $ L (c) $ can not be reduced. A curve is called re-definable if $ L (c) <\ infty $. A curve can also be re-parameterized: $ \ varphi: I
 
@DavidCarlisle please post that as an answer.
@DavidCarlisle Don't forget to attribute google translate -)
 
@Johannes_B not authorised to post
@Johannes_B what makes you think I needed assistance in the translation?
 
@DavidCarlisle The past :-)
 
@Johannes_B Du solltest mehr Glauben haben
 
11:49 PM
@Johannes_B Use the Force, Luke Johannes ;-) Use the Force ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I heard the next Ubuntu will have the command dpc symlinked to googe.translate ;-)
2
 
@Johannes_B Ah, a Ubuntu bug? One of many ones? ;-)
 
@Johannes_B I heard la la land won best Oscar
 
@DavidCarlisle Wonderful! Wait ... wonderland?
What was it?
 

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