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3:11 AM
@noob The simple answer is no. Part of the reason can be found here:
64
Q: Is there a BNF grammar of the TeX language?

rystsovI'm looking for a BNF grammar of the TeX language, does it exist? EDIT For those of us who are not computer scientists, a BNF grammar is one kind of formal description of a CFG: Backus Naur Form. For those who don't know their Chomsky, a CFG is a context-free grammar, which means (very roughly...

 
@AlanMunn that's terrible! But I guess I can live with it.
 
@noob A slightly more hopeful answer might be to look into pandoc pandoc.org
 
@AlanMunn yeah no pandoc simply offers too little. It's fine for a tiny document or so but not for something real. But thanks!
 
@noob But unless you're actually writing your own packages, most of the stuff you need isn't so complicated.
@noob Also you may want to look into the LaTeX3 syntax (texdoc expl3) which is being designed to provide a more sensible programming layer.
@noob There's also pythontex (a package) and luatex (an engine).
 
 
4 hours later…
6:59 AM
@noob welcome to the 1970's (when the language was designed)
@noob latex document syntax is actually quite simple and regular (the programming syntax behind packages less so)
 
7:49 AM
@DavidCarlisle Agreed
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle well, the problem with any "simplification" of LaTeX is missing finak output control via artificial tildes, looseness, manual figure placement etc. To this end, it acutally probably makes more sense to use something like LyX and do the final corrections in teh TeX code
 
8:10 AM
@JosephWright latex/4488 :(
 
@yo' no! WYSIWYG is evil IMHO.
 
yo'
8:42 AM
@noob I never felt the need for using it, but I know people who use it, use it well, and I understand their reasons.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:53 AM
@DavidCarlisle Well, tabularx in the footer is maybe not something I recommend; but tabular*
 
@egreg tabular* is the same which hopefully means that it's all Frank's fault, (his half of array package)
 
10:12 AM
@DavidCarlisle So tabular* gives no issue if array is not loaded?
 
 
1 hour later…
11:19 AM
@DavidCarlisle It seriously is. The programming syntax I mean. I'm seriously struggling with it. :P
 
@egreg I think it's this but haven't had time to look yet % In order to relieve the \textsf{save stack} we assign the % replacement texts for =\@halignto= globally.
 
11:37 AM
@StefanKottwitz I temporarilz lost inet Connection. Over the Weekend was a user on LC )etp94= whom I still need to answer. Page number in the Header with memoir. Can zou take a look at it please?
 
 
1 hour later…
12:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle Almost certainly not my fault!
 
12:57 PM
@JosephWright it's Frank's fault I'm not saying who's fault it is.
2
@JosephWright october suggestion seems fine
 
@DavidCarlisle who starred that?
 
@PauloCereda never trust a vim user
 
@DavidCarlisle oy
 
 
2 hours later…
3:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle Cool
 
3:47 PM
25
Q: Why are some programming languages turing complete but lack some abilities of other languages?

Mr. Minty FreshI came across an odd problem when writing an interpreter that (should) hooks to external programs/functions: functions in 'C' and 'C++' can't hook variadic functions, e.g. I can't make a function that calls 'printf' with the exact same arguments that it got, and instead has to call an alternate v...

You should look into turing tarpits. They're a fascinating type of programming language that intentionally has as few operations available as possible while still being turing complete. Most of them lack basic data types, functions, even simple things like declaring variables. Personally, I think coding in them is great fun, since it forces you out of your comfort zone to try something needlessly difficult. — DJMcMayhem yesterday
^^^ Sounds perfectly normal to me ;-)
 
yo'
@JosephWright lol
 
 
1 hour later…
5:01 PM
@JosephWright A class is doing \addtocounter{cost}{1000 * \real{#2} * \real{#3}} (with the calc package) with much confidence that eventually dividing by 1000 with fp will return a good result (several additions like that are performed).
 
5:18 PM
@egreg we could sell them a math library
 
5:35 PM
@DavidCarlisle Easy to find the author on GitHub
 
@egreg I knew that this sounded familiar. github.com/treyhunner/invoices/issues/2
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes, I saw your comment
 
Self-publish versus publisher publish? Anyone have brilliant thoughts or authoritative links on the subject?
 
@AaronHall Pirate bay. :)
 
I've given that some thought, but I wonder if there would be enough seeders to even try to use it as a distribution tool.
seems like the ebooks all get out there anyways.
I'm not litigious, and I even say so on my profile.
 
5:40 PM
@AaronHall Oh I was actually kidding about it. :) There's Lulu, I heard from some friends the service is quite good.
 
A publisher might give me more channels and publicity.
And so the earnings could be more even with less of a percentage of sales.
And I'm not a great salesman.
I've already given it thought, but as usual, I really want to be certain that I'm taking the correct path.
And I'm still uncertain.
 
Oh sorry, I don't know.
 
6:05 PM
Hello
how creating more than 256 glyph in font?
where is small example with unicode font in metafont
 
@MarkoLustro metafont doesn't do unicode (nor does pdftex) you need xetex or luatex and an opentype font tool
 
is opentype font tool for linux? (meybe UFO?)
metafont is easy
 
@MarkoLustro not a tool, it is a font format, but for tex fonts look at the tex gyre project or in general people use tools like fontforge
@MarkoLustro these people have done more unicode fonts for tex than anyone else, and have some papers describing methods used gust.org.pl/projects/e-foundry/tex-gyre
 
@DavidCarlisle Or we could give them one for free, or we could suggest a newly-stable engine ;-)
 
@MarkoLustro do you use pdftex or luatex or xetex?
 
6:17 PM
metafont
and tex
 
@MarkoLustro if tex then you can not have more than 256 characters in a font, whether the font is made with metafont or not.
 
is possible using 2 font in one word?
for example I have 'word' hyphenation wo-rd is possible to using 2 fonts in one word?
 
6:37 PM
@MarkoLustro Hyphenation in classical TeX is tied to the font
 
(2) how draw baseline in metafont? gftodvi
but hyphenation not working with 2 fonts
in one word
if i'm wrong show me example
 
@MarkoLustro Like I said, you can't hyphenate in classical TeX between fonts: LuaTeX changes this (a function of language)
 
ok, next question
Do You know any way to check collision 2 glyphs?
or how convert mf glyph to other format?
 
7:35 PM
I will have chips for dinner. :)
 
I want chips for dinner too.
Wait, so plain vanilla LaTeX can't handle unicode?
 
@AaronHall Define 'handle'
@AaronHall \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} clearly works, but still uses 8-bit fonts
@PauloCereda Good stuff
 
yo'
@PauloCereda I have nothing for dinner as I have nothing :-)
 
I guess I don't understand the implications of an 8-bit font...
 
@JosephWright No fish
@yo' oh no
 
7:49 PM
@AaronHall TeX fonts are 8-bit, so each has 256 slots and anything that requires more space has to use multiple fonts. For Unicode engines, you can use OTF fonts directly so one font file covers everything.
@AaronHall With an 8-bit font, mapping glyph-to-Unicode (for example for copy-paste from PDFs) is 'interesting'
@AaronHall TeX 8-bit fonts are a walled garden: they are only use by TeX
@AaronHall See also my earlier comment about hyphenation
 
yo'
@PauloCereda that's fine and not quite a problem, I'll get a large breakfast in tez morning :) (getting up at 5:55 as I teach at 8:00)
@egreg Ad your comment to the invoice thingy: Isn't it preferable to explicitly call expl3 if you're using it? You call it implicitly through xparse and siunitx.
 
Can you help me understand how this impacts me as a user of LaTeX?
 
yo'
@AaronHall as long as you use fonts available for pdflatex and write in one or two languages that use latin alphabet? Not at all... (btw, if you don't use the "reply to message" function of the chat, the people you want to reach very likely miss your message)
 
@yo' I usually omit expl3 if I load xparse
 
yo'
@egreg interesting...
 
8:15 PM
@JosephWright so if I had an alphabet with 1000s of characters and tried to use them in a LaTeX document with pdflatex - I would be disappointed?
 
@yo' Normal rule is load any package you are using explicitly, but like @egreg I'd say that expl3 is absolutely tied to xparse
@AaronHall You have to do some work with inputenc to tell it about the byte sequence -> glyph mapping, certainly
 
Is there a resource or man-page or Q&A that tells me about how to do that?
 
@AaronHall texdoc inputenc but that only works for cases where you've set up the glyph: the two parts of the process are separate
 
yo'
@JosephWright ok thanks
 
@JosephWright: in case you missed it: youtube.com/watch?v=KxDC7CoUB4o
 
8:38 PM
@TorbjørnT.: You appeared in my "Related researchers" in ResearchGate!
 
@PauloCereda Really? Can't be because we're doing related research.
 
@AaronHall well the cjk-package managed to make all the chinese characters usable with pdflatex. So it can be done but it is not easy - a lot of fonts are involved.
 
@TorbjørnT. Well, I think it's you. :) Mind if I follow you? :)
 
@PauloCereda Not at all.
 
@TorbjørnT. Added. :) Later you tell me if it was really you. :)
 
8:44 PM
@PauloCereda Yeah, seems I'm followed by someone called Paulo Cereda from the University of Sao Paulo. Sounds familiar.
 
@TorbjørnT. Oh no, beware of that bloke, he's a wacky duck. :)
 
@PauloCereda So I've heard.
 
@TorbjørnT. But his thesis is so good.
@DavidCarlisle ^^
 
@PauloCereda I'll take your word for it.
 
@TorbjørnT. :)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:52 PM
@PauloCereda blemish free, it is.
 
cfr
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright l3doc.cls seems to use \file_input:nT but I can't figure out where this is defined. Where can I find this?
 
@AaronHall what do you mean by an alphabet here? you can not use a font with more than 256 characters but you can use hundreds of fonts. (that's how the cjk packages for (pdf)tex work)
$ grep file_input:nT `find . -name \*.dtx`
./trunk/l3kernel/l3doc.dtx:    \file_input:nT { l3doc.cfg }
@cfr ^^^^ it appears to be a figment of the documentation's imagination
 
@cfr I guess it is \file_if_exist_input:nT
 
cfr
@egreg But the code has just confirmed the file exists
\file_if_exist:nT { l3doc.cfg }
  {
    \file_input:nT { l3doc.cfg }
      {
        \cs_if_exist:cF { ExplMakeTitle }
          { \msg_info:nn { l3doc } { input-cfg } }
      }
  }
@DavidCarlisle Can I define \file_input:nT somehow so this doesn't throw an error? I'm not sure how to do this for a signature involving T when \file_input:n etc. exist.
@egreg @DavidCarlisle @anybody Or some other workaround? I just wanted it to load l3doc.cfg....
 
10:08 PM
@cfr shouldn't just be \file_input:n{l3doc.cfg} in that case, what's the T branch for?
 
@cfr If I add an empty l3doc.cfg file in the same directory as l3doc.dtx and run pdflatex l3doc.dtx, guess what I get:
! Undefined control sequence.
<argument> \file_input:nT
@cfr Presumably the code has not been updated to be \file_if_exist_input:nT {l3doc.cfg}{\cs_if_exist:cF...}
 
@egreg blame @JosephWright
 
@DavidCarlisle Sure!
@cfr `pdflatex '\expandafter\def\csname file_input:nT\endcsname{\csname file_if_exist_input:nT\endcsname}\input{l3doc.dtx}'
 
cfr
10:24 PM
@DavidCarlisle I don't know. It is not my code!!
 
@cfr with pdflatex '\expandafter\def\csname file_input:nT\endcsname{\csname file_if_exist_input:nT\endcsname}\input{l3doc.dtx}' I get the work done, apart from an error about an "Illegal use of \verb" error on line 285
 
cfr
@egreg Thank you. That's bizarre looking but it does get past that error.
 
@cfr The error on line 285 is due to a stray | character; after removing it the compilation runs smoothly. But in the end you might as well fix the other piece of text.
@cfr here's the diff
diff l3doc.dtx /usr/local/texlive/2016/texmf-dist/source/latex/l3kernel/l3doc.dtx
285c285
< %   same (\enquote{\texttt{\string\foo}}).  In general, \cs{cs} is more robust since
---
> %   same (\enquote{\texttt{\string\foo|}}).  In general, \cs{cs} is more robust since
1076c1076
< \file_if_exist_input:nT { l3doc.cfg }
---
> \file_if_exist:nT { l3doc.cfg }
1078,1079c1078,1082
<     \cs_if_exist:cF { ExplMakeTitle }
<      { \msg_info:nn { l3doc } { input-cfg } }
---
>     \file_input:nT { l3doc.cfg }
 
cfr
10:41 PM
@egreg Thank you! That's very nice. Though I'm starting to think l3doc can't be used very much and probably I shouldn't be trying to use it either. (I thought it would be the L3 equivalent of ltxdoc, but clearly not!)
 

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