TeX, LaTeX and Friends

David Carlisle

8:42 AM

@egreg we could play \paragraph snap:-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle But you're slower

David Carlisle

@egreg more considered and helpful, you meant to say

Guilherme Z. Santos

9:32 AM

@egreg @DavidCarlisle, And I was wondering yesterday what was the purpose of \paragraph... thank's for clearing the air. Though it is not added to the ToC by default is it?

Paulo Cereda

@David: Should I finish my thesis, arara and xor?

egreg

@GuilhermeZ.Santos You need \setcounter{tocdepth}{4} in order for \paragraph being listed in the TOC.

@PauloCereda The order should be xor, arara, thesis

Guilherme Z. Santos

@egreg Hmm, that's useful to know. Though a ToC with four levels is a bit too much imho...

egreg

@GuilhermeZ.Santos Much like a phone directory

Paulo Cereda

@egreg I will never finish anthing then. :)

egreg

9:43 AM

@PauloCereda You'll have to live with a poorly typeset thesis, then. Unless you use abntex2, of course.

3

Paulo Cereda

@egreg oh no

Joseph Wright

@egreg You really would find the UK system difficult!

egreg

@JosephWright You don't have the analog of ABNT, that's why.

Joseph Wright

10:17 AM

@DavidCarlisle There's a reason I didn't bother with ligatures in LuaTeX for testing

David Carlisle

10:29 AM

@JosephWright :-)

@GuilhermeZ.Santos yes but...

@GuilhermeZ.Santos the default level for tocdepth in the standard classes is 3

@GuilhermeZ.Santos ever looked at an international standard? (5 or 6 levels is common:-)

Guilherme Z. Santos

@DavidCarlisle I didn't said it wasn't used. I said I find it ugly..

@DavidCarlisle But true, sometimes must be done. That's why I think it's useful ;D

egreg

10:44 AM

@GuilhermeZ.Santos I found a technical specification which used up to 13 levels, each one of them listed in the TOC

Guilherme Z. Santos

@egreg Once or just now? If now, send the link... I'd love to see ~~the monstruosity~~ it

egreg

@GuilhermeZ.Santos A few years ago

Guilherme Z. Santos

@egreg ohh, ok.. =P

@egreg, 13 levels is just absurd... o.O

egreg

11:05 AM

@GuilhermeZ.Santos Yes, definitely. The item at the deepest level were just one line. And short, because the numbers already occupied half of the line.

yo'

@egreg I mean, many levels is one thing, but why are all the level numbers repeated at the beginning of each item?!

egreg

@yo' Ask the author of that crazy technical spec.

yo'

please, how's the phenomenon called when you concentrate so much on one thing that you completely miss another much more important thing?

Guilherme Z. Santos

@yo' is there a name for it?? o.O

yo'

@GuilhermeZ.Santos yeah, I know I've heard it many times in the Air Crash Inverstigation series, but I can't remember it now...

Paulo Cereda

11:16 AM

@yo' ooh hold the phone

yo'

it has to be listed here:

List of cognitive biases

Cognitive biases are tendencies to think in certain ways that can lead to systematic deviations from a standard of rationality or good judgment, and are often studied in psychology and behavioral economics. Although the reality of these biases is confirmed by replicable research, there are often controversies about how to classify these biases or how to explain them. Some are effects of information-processing rules (i.e., mental shortcuts), called heuristics, that the brain uses to produce decisions or judgments. Such effects are called cognitive biases. Biases have a variety of forms and appear...

Guilherme Z. Santos

@yo' Don't know about your cognitive bias name. But that drawing is neat. *_*

yo'

@GuilhermeZ.Santos I think it's "focusing effect"

Guilherme Z. Santos

@yo' Could be... But, in the description, nothing is said about the lost of attention to other subjects.

Ulrike Fischer

11:45 AM

@yo' selective attention? youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle: ^^ this was posted in 9gag. So, I am officially an Englishduck, right? :)

egreg

@PauloCereda Saint Paul's State? Or Saintpaulshire?

Paulo Cereda

Something along those lines. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda By the way, I finished reading Jorge Amado’s “Dona Flor”. Nice book, but I find the ending rather weak.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Really? How nice. :) Jorge Amado is not amongst my favourite authors, but he was very good. :)

Guilherme Z. Santos

11:54 AM

@egreg Do you speak portuguese?

egreg

@GuilhermeZ.Santos No; Italian translation.

Paulo Cereda

@GuilhermeZ.Santos That's David's cue. :)

Guilherme Z. Santos

@PauloCereda Yes, he'll likely step in with some Google Fu as you said. ahaha

Paulo Cereda

@GuilhermeZ.Santos :)

Guilherme Z. Santos

@egreg I ask, because I saw you corrected a typo I made in the meta question "Associção" -> "Associação"

egreg

11:56 AM

@GuilhermeZ.Santos It looked quite suspicious. ;-)

Guilherme Z. Santos

Annnd this Jorge Amado thing

Paulo Cereda

@GuilhermeZ.Santos I think @egreg has a sixth sense, as Portuguese is one of the daughters of Latin. :)

Guilherme Z. Santos

@PauloCereda True dat! ^.^

yo'

12:32 PM

@UlrikeFischer right!

Joseph Wright

1:02 PM

@DavidCarlisle Chris is correct: I did send that email!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright No it was chris' reply I didn't see

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ah

@DavidCarlisle Perhaps your spam filter is trying to tell you something!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright gmail for some time spam flitered Chris's mails along with almost all other yahoo address as failing some security check, I had whitelist filter set to save his, but I think I noticed he was using a different one recently:-)

egreg

@PauloCereda And “association” is similar in all European languages

Paulo Cereda

@egreg :)

David Carlisle

1:10 PM

@egreg they probably all copied from the original english

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Yes, see perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/…

Persuadent Rauracis et Tulingis et Latobrigis finitimis, uti eodem usi consilio oppidis suis vicisque exustis una cum iis proficiscantur, Boiosque, qui trans Rhenum incoluerant et in agrum Noricum transierant Noreiamque oppugnabant, receptos ad se socios sibi adsciscunt.

David Carlisle

@egreg the Romans probably got the word while they were over here. (we had them round to do some mosaic floor tiling, as far as I understand)

Sean Allred

@PauloCereda I found the secret development history of arara:

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Interim, consilio eius cognito et per mercatores perlato ad Britannos, a compluribus insulae civitatibus ad eum legati veniunt, qui polliceantur obsides dare atque imperio populi Romani obtemperare.

@DavidCarlisle In the mean time, his purpose having been discovered, and reported to the Britons by merchants, embassadors come to him from several states of the island, to promise that they will give hostages, and submit to the government of the Roman people.

@DavidCarlisle Read carefully the final part. :P

Paulo Cereda

1:27 PM

@SeanAllred ooooh

barbara beeton

1:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle -- thanks for posting. just in time to go into my next tugboat column. a most appropriate memorial.

Joseph Wright

@barbarabeeton Ah, your remind me: @DavidCarlisle, have you looked over the L3 news? Karl was keen it go into TUGboat

barbara beeton

@yo' -- not a formal name, i'm sure, but "single-mindedness" fills the bill.

@JosephWright -- and barbara agrees that it would be a good idea.

Joseph Wright

@barbarabeeton It's just the 'looking forward' bit I worry about

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- just because an address is whitelisted doesn't mean it won't be trapped in a spam filter. i've had that problem recently with an address for a person whose sending host didn't match the return address (a "remote" user of a university address). exceedingly annoying, and very difficult to cope with, given the amount of spam that gets delivered here.

@JosephWright -- well, i haven't seen it yet, but from conversations here, i gather that you sometimes feel that some others are working at cross-purposes.

Joseph Wright

2:05 PM

@barbarabeeton In this case, I've written most of the text, Frank adds a few things

@barbarabeeton github.com/latex3/latex3/blob/master/news/l3news10.tex

barbara beeton

@JosephWright -- thanks. do you want notice of typos? ("many which" in first paragraph should be "many of which".)

Joseph Wright

@barbarabeeton Yes, sure: like I said, it's only really the 'future gazing' bit that I'd like to get some input on (Frank wrote that, so really from @DavidCarlisle would be nice)

barbara beeton

@JosephWright -- okay. i'll send an edited copy by mail.

Joseph Wright

@barbarabeeton Cool

barbara beeton

2:54 PM

@JosephWright -- done

yo'

Got 62 exams for grading. Good weekend!

David Carlisle

4:15 PM

@JosephWright second product announcement today, we closed the first so I suppose we should do same here? (oh actually Martin deleted the first?)

tex.stackexchange.com/questions/335077/…

0

Q: Test tikz and pict2e output of xfig / fig2dev

Release 3.2.6 of xfig / fig2dev, available at sourceforge and also as binary package for debian, ubuntu, macports (I believe) and probably others, is able to export to the tikz and to the pict2e macro language for LaTeX. I would be grateful, if you could test all your fig files with the new outpu...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Done: will be unpopular in some other places!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright :-) (I think email thread confirmed my suspicions about a user a while back being someone I know:-)

Joseph Wright

5:27 PM

2

Left-to-right: Simon Dales, John Peters, Kaveh Bazargan, Peter Kirby, Jonathan Fine, Stefan Kottwitz, Phil Molyneux, Arthur Reutenauer, Joseph Wright, David Carlisle, Dominic Branford

@DavidCarlisle, @StefanKottwitz ^^^

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Wait a minute, is Arthur shorter than you?

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Almost everyone I meet is shorter than me

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright uh-oh, bad example. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda A legend about Kareem is that when he started middle school, a teacher said to him: “Hey, you down there, why are you standing?” ”I'm sitting, madam”.

Paulo Cereda

5:42 PM

@egreg ooh

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda For reference, I'm about 187 cm tall (-ish, I know what I am in proper units ...)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright OMG

egreg

@PauloCereda And I met this player when he was a boy; at 13 he was well over 187

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Oh my!

@JosephWright I am about 174.

egreg

@PauloCereda Just a few of the boys in his team and the opponents' reached his shoulders.

Paulo Cereda

5:49 PM

@egreg You could use a cane to hit him on the head, if he doesn't obey during a match. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda Oh, he was a very good boy. And a very loyal player for his entire career.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg Awesome. :)

@JosephWright Wait a minute, that means @DavidCarlisle is almost as tall as you are! Oh my!

egreg

@PauloCereda Not like the one to whom I said: "Do you really want the first technical foul of your short career?” He blushed and stopped complaining.

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Yes, see the picture above

Paulo Cereda

@egreg oh :)

David Carlisle

5:53 PM

@PauloCereda and I was sitting down

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle LOL

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright having spent quite some time navigating lua tables this afternoon to understand the font structure I decided while driving home that just loading luaotfload would be easier:-)

egreg

@PauloCereda Not to mention a kid who was known for often being rude in complaints, but with me he was like an angel. At the time I also happened to be his math teacher in high school. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooooooh :)

Joseph Wright

6:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle :)

Stefan Kottwitz

6:13 PM

@JosephWright Nice!

Joseph Wright

@StefanKottwitz Indeed

barbara beeton

6:29 PM

@JosephWright -- is that why you look like you're slouching? or are you simply worn out from the effort?

3

Q: Incompatibility with mathtools and unicode-math in xelatex?

I find unexpected behaviour in using mathtools in conjunction with unicode-math, which shows up if the 'range' command is used. Some incompatibilities have been noted before, so perhaps this is related. However, it only showed up for me in Texlive2016; previous versions worked as expected. In the...

xetex unicode-math mathtools bug

@DavidCarlisle -- might you have anything to say about this? ^^^^

Joseph Wright

@barbarabeeton I took a look and did upvote: Will hopefully can shed more light, but to me something seems to be odd in unicode-math

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton I'll ask Will's baby

barbara beeton

@JosephWright -- to me, several somethings seem to be odd in unicode-math, but the foundations seem to be becoming rather mushy. please do poke will. you too, @DavidCarlisle.

Joseph Wright

@barbarabeeton We should probably try to have some kind of formal meeting about this, perhaps involving others (MS, for example)

In other news, I have the new Steeleye Span album on a loop

Who doesn't love a good murder ballad?

David Carlisle

6:45 PM

@JosephWright I didn't know they were still going,

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Saw them last night here in Norwich: Maddy as good as ever

yo'

8:27 PM

@barbarabeeton thanks! Well, I wanted the official notion to emphasize that it's a real thing one has to count with...

David Carlisle

9:00 PM

@egreg downvoting isn't the way on this site:-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Unfortunately.

David Carlisle

9:42 PM

@egreg you voted to re-open, do you think the first should be undeleted?

5 hours ago, by David Carlisle

@JosephWright second product announcement today, we closed the first so I suppose we should do same here? (oh actually Martin deleted the first?)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle They are two very distinct cases. One is a non-question, the other one is a proper answer.

David Carlisle

@egreg why? other than the fact I'm more likely to use xfig, what's the difference, it certainly isn't a question that can be answered

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Sorry I was thinking to a different one.

David Carlisle

0

Q: Tikz output of xfig / fig2dev

Release 3.2.6 of xfig / fig2dev, available at sourceforge and also as binary package for debian, ubuntu, macports (I believe) and probably others, is able to export to the tikz and to the pict2e macro language for LaTeX. At the beginning of the tikz-output, the dimen-manipulations below are crea...

tikz-pgf xfig

@egreg perhaps you re-opened it so i could answer and get closer to my badge

egreg

@DavidCarlisle ”Is the re-definition of arrows really necessary, or is there also a possibility to check whether an arrow is already defined?” Looks like a question.

David Carlisle

9:47 PM

@egreg ooh should I answer that bit?:-)

@egreg actually I see now, the question has been completely rewritten to be more of a question so that's good that's the effect closing for not a question is supposed to have:-)

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