@ChristianHupfer I made recommendations?

@DavidCarlisle oh no!

@DavidCarlisle They might change the logic: LuaTeX is after all still experimental

@barbarabeeton thanks!

@barbarabeeton it does seem that the link is down

bansisworld.org that is

@Johannes_B I only wrote that the behaviour is documented. I didn't claim that it is perfect. Imho it would not be a good idea if biblatex would initialize a new special string in some lbx for all languages. But it would naturally be neat if in case of a language mapping the new string is also initialized for the mapped language. You could make a feature request.

@Johannes_B Some remarks about inconsistencies in my documentation etc.

@JosephWright yes although it's not clear that using the current catcode is necessarily better (and still wouldn't allow expandable creation of arbitrary character token without lua) so I think I may push for \Uchar to be documented as catcode 12 to match what works in patched xetex and luatex now, and push for \Ucharcat that takes a catcode as well. Presumably it can be done anyway in luatex, although matching primitives would be nicer

@DavidCarlisle Whether Hans/Taco will go for this I'm not sure: in LuaTeX even \Uchar is arguable, and with \scantextokens there is no real issue

@JosephWright yes but if Ucharcat was an xetex primitive it could be defined in lua, so getting something usable added to xetex still seems worth it. scantextokens doesn't let you fix up the catcodes expandably unless the catcodes are already set as you need, so in practice in luatex probably may as well just generate the character tokens in lua

@DavidCarlisle Did you see 4.17.5 token.create in the manual (TL 2015)?

@egreg The new token library?

@JosephWright Yes.

@egreg Probably in LuaTeX you shouldn't really be using catcodes at all (or at least that is where I think ConTeXt is going)

@JosephWright yes well...

meanwhile trying that floating figure question:

! Undefined control sequence.
<argument> \locbox

@JosephWright I thought we'd caught all the etex things, seems forest package still needs update for 2015

@DavidCarlisle That one came up a few days ago didn't it?

@JosephWright I thought I'd remembered it as being fixed, but perhaps it just got flagged as a problem, but meanwhile I'm trying to work out why the space hacks aren't working in that koma example...

oh good grief, since it's obviously a float position problem unrelated to the float content I removed the forest markup and now

! Output loop---100 consecutive dead cycles.
\scr@saved@clearpage ... {}\vbox {}\penalty -\@Mi

@DavidCarlisle ouch

@DavidCarlisle Link?

@JosephWright MWE is

\documentclass{scrbook}

\usepackage{floatrow}
\usepackage{subfig}



\begin{document}

A B

A
\begin{figure}[p]
XXXX
\end{figure}
B


\end{document}

If you use article or don't load both those packages, the problem goes away.

@DavidCarlisle means you got at least three people to blame. Problem solved.

Quick question: I'd like to plot the following function in pgfplots: {4.179E-15x - 1.9437};

What's the correct syntax for power of tenths?

@Argo: I think pgfplots parses E-15 correctly. But you are aware that that's a slope effectively zero in numerical accuracy?

@Argo \addplot {4.179E-15*x - 1.9437};

@DavidCarlisle The problem only shows (in your minimal example) only if TL2015 is used.

@egreg it does? hmmm

Well the points are like this:

@DavidCarlisle I tried it first with 2014 and the output was fine.

@egreg and \RequirePackage[2014/01/01]{latexrelease} fixes it as well....

@egreg although presumably the OP wasn't using 2015 (as forest package gives an etex allocation error in 2015)

@Pau

@PaulGessler Thanks, it worked. One small thing, the points are connected, how does one remove that?

@DavidCarlisle The new definition of \@esphack with \nobreak is the culprit.

@DavidCarlisle If I revert to the old one and compile with TL 2015, the output is as expected.

@egreg oh thanks will look. can you fix the Op's original example as well:-)

Nevermind, found it. Thanks again.

@DavidCarlisle Removing either floatrow or subfig fixes it as well; they possibly have something related to \@esphack themselves.

@egreg yes well I think the underlying problem is nested use of bsphack/espack (from \caption, or from the implicit caption handling in floatrow/subfig, but not quite narrowed it down yet, supposed to be on holiday and compiling xetex in a parallel thread:-)

@DavidCarlisle If I load both packages, with \usepackage[caption=false]{subfig}, then the output is correct, so the problem is with caption.

@egreg yes floatrow loads a fr-subfig package if it detects subfig so I guess it's in there somewhere

@DavidCarlisle The fact is that I can't reproduce the OP's issue (with 2014).

@egreg oh perhaps he's using 2015, that's odd

@DavidCarlisle No, or the \locbox problem would arise. I suspect versioning problems.

@egreg going to see if I can get that \locbox fixed first:-)

oh ctan has a version of forest dated today.... still uses locbox:(

.. but loads etex so error goes

@UlrikeFischer i'll wait for Philips input first.

@DavidCarlisle I get the \locbox error only with xelatex. With lualatex the forest example worked fine.

@UlrikeFischer odd, I'll check

@DavidCarlisle luaotfload loads etex.

@UlrikeFischer grmble we'll need to fix that:-)

@egreg see the top commit logged here: sourceforge.net/p/xetex/code/commit_browser

@yo Where you took an inspiration for your new nick? Whenever I take a bottle with YO syrup (from Austria provenience, very good) I recall YOu.

@DavidCarlisle What is the correct code (assuming latexrelease exists) to do "exclude etex if format >= 01.01.2015"?

@UlrikeFischer \ifx\e@alloc\@undefined\RequirePackage{etex}\fi is probably as good as any

@DavidCarlisle Should I suggest it to the author of luaotfload or will you do it?

@DavidCarlisle :)

@UlrikeFischer ctan lists a whole list of people, do you know best address? you can if you wish I don't really know that code at all currently

@DavidCarlisle actually it is luatex.sty which loads etex, so one has to inform @HeikoOberdiek. I did sent him a mail.

@UlrikeFischer thanks

@wipet If I only knew where I got the idea for this nick...

What I particularly like about the nick is that whoever tries to reach me as @yo fails since that's a too short prefix of the nickname.

@ChristianHupfer btw, do you use github or something similar? Makes it quite easy to follow something and give feedback.

@Johannes_B: Not yet...

@ChristianHupfer Go for it ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Excellent news on the XeTeX list

@Johannes_B: Isn't there some restriction on github, only five projects for free, more getting expensive?

@ChristianHupfer If you want hidden repositories.

@Johannes_B: Yes, I want thousands of hidden repositories

@ChristianHupfer Thousands of hidden repositories is suspicious for open source development. Please drop me a note when you have taken over the world, i'd like to get a position in your organization.

@Johannes_B: I'll send you an application form then :-P

@JosephWright yep I asked Jonathan to switch to public list (oh I think you were cc'd) I've built that, seems to work well.

@ChristianHupfer I've got 6 plus a couple of forks of other people's repositories so I hope I don't have to pay:-)

@DavidCarlisle Yes

Wow, 5 comments flagged :D

@DavidCarlisle: Well, I think I will do fine with 5 ... I can have subdirectories, I suppose, for each LaTeX package ... yes, I threaten to 'develop' further packages ;-)

@ChristianHupfer yes all my latex packages are under the same repository

@DavidCarlisle But isn't that all public?

@Johannes_B, @DavidCarlisle: There is a new github user named BlackForester ;-)

@ChristianHupfer I think some bloke named @Paulo was maintaining a list of such things (or there is a big-list answer on meta...

Hi friends!

It's so so so great o be back!

<3

@PauloCereda /hugz

@PauloCereda PAULO!!!! <3 QUACK!

@yo' /hugs back

@PaulGessler Quaaaaaack! <3

@PauloCereda: Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!

Miss you guys so much! :)

@PauloCereda A duck

@ChristianHupfer 'ello! :)

@JosephWright LOL

@JosephWright ooh! <3

@PauloCereda so how was Europe?

@DavidCarlisle: You mentioned the bloke @Paulo and there he is ;-)

@ChristianHupfer probably been lurking for days

@DavidCarlisle Interesting, a lot of old buildings and wacky tribes. :)

@DavidCarlisle Pretty much it. :P

@PauloCereda and no internet

@PauloCereda did you say Wacky Wheels? :D

Europe was great, but I almost froze to death. :)

@PauloCereda oh c'mon!

No one told me about the wind!

@PauloCereda it was may day: start of spring and good weather

@PauloCereda you don't live on seashore?

@DavidCarlisle :)

@yo' Nope, mountains.

@PauloCereda ah ok

@yo' :)

@PauloCereda Quack Quack QUUUACK quack <3

@wipet Also, I drink only home-made syrups, so I don't know what YO syrups are about:)

@Johannes_B Johannes! <3

@egreg: I visited some churchs, they are so beautiful!

@PauloCereda yep. And you surely haven't seen the beautifulest European ones :-)

@yo' because they are all in England?

@yo' That's primarily opinion based. I vote to close you comment :-P

@DavidCarlisle ahem...

@ChristianHupfer :-P

The most beautiful one is of course the one I play the organ in ;)

@PauloCereda Welcome back!!!!!!

@egreg Thank you, I miss you guys so much!

@PauloCereda You should know the main news: yesterday England lost to West Indies. :)

@egreg ooh! :)

@PauloCereda Second: Juve won the league.

@PauloCereda and a baby was born in England

That one I saw in the news. :)

@DavidCarlisle I propose to call her Paula.

@egreg too late: Charlotte Elizabeth Diana

@DavidCarlisle :(

@DavidCarlisle Did you bet on sex and name?

@DavidCarlisle Oh my!

@DavidCarlisle yes, there's one every couple minutes, or not?

@PauloCereda -- another welcome back! i hope your talk was a smashing success.

@barbarabeeton Hi Barbara! Thank you, I miss you! <3

@yo' there was some bloke being interviewed on the bbc claiming that the bbc and others had lost all journalistic integrity by not allocating equal billing to all babies born that day, but I don't think he persuaded the channel not to allocate multiple hours to people standing outside buildings guessing about things that they had no information about. I think the only alternative would be covering the election...

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle I lost you completely :p

@yo' tam byl nějaký chlap byl dotazován naBBC tvrdí, žeBBC a jiní ztratili veškerou novinářskou integritu tím, že přidělování rovnat plakátování pro všechny děti narozené toho dne , ale já si nemyslím, že přesvědčil kanál není přidělit více hodin, aby lidé stojící vně budov hádání o věcech, které nemají žádnou informaci o . Myslím si, žejedinou alternativou by pokrývat volby ...

@yo' clearer?

@DavidCarlisle not really... what do you mean by "covering the elections"?

@yo' the UK Government 5 year election is this week (thursday) so apart from babies the news is just full of people saying who's to blame for last 5 years and how to make it all better

@DavidCarlisle ah ok, that's this business

@yo' apparently it's all the fault of some group of people known as "Europe"

@DavidCarlisle with Scots being the second choice I suppose :D

@yo' and then babies.

@DavidCarlisle Also saying that the country will be held to ransom by bits of the country

@DavidCarlisle Also 'tax and spend': I'd love to see a government that does neither (not to live there, though: I believe it's called 'Somalia')

@JosephWright yes but the trick is to tax the people who wouldn't have voted for you anyway and (promise to) spend it on those who might.

@DavidCarlisle I believe so, yes

@DavidCarlisle Also to avoid saying anything useful about your policies, as saying anything substantial will offend someone

@DavidCarlisle This is not more clearer. Your Czech isn't very good:). But my English is bad too.

Btw, does anybody know what Google did to their maps? They are slow, blurry, and things pop out here and there all the time.

@wipet I have absolute faith in Google translate.

@DavidCarlisle Like in LaTeX? IMHO, this is not a good idea:).

@wipet I have more faith in google translate

@DavidCarlisle If you want to know what I mean about google you can read the page petr.olsak.net/zkusenost-gog.html and use google translate on this page. Note that this page is searchable by google: "olsak google".

@wipet yes we tried to set up an account for someone's child the other day and hit that. Annoying really.

@DavidCarlisle Blame that paranoid mum who sued google for allowing her daughter use gmail to connect to a child molester. (No, I'm not aware of any specific such case, but the US laws and courts are like this.)

@wipet The 'over 13' business?

@JosephWright well, you can find dozens of things that are bad with google. They're just a profit-oriented company, after all.

@yo' Sure, but if I understood the link from @wipet correctly this was specifically about the fact that US law means most online entities don't allow accounts for anyone who is (claims to be) below 13

@JosephWright yep, that's it

@yo' I don't think you can pin that on Google: anyone with servers in the US is in the same boat, and if the US DoD has its way anyone with any business at all in the US might be (see the fact that the DoD is trying to get data from a Microsoft data centre in Ireland despite the fact they don't have jurisdiction)

@JosephWright yeah, this business is strange. But I'm not sure what's better -- the EU countries have very little "internet laws".

One thing I'm sure about is that the US present themselves as "liberal", but are actually very not liberal at all. </politics>

@yo' I'm not certain, but I though the 13 business pre-dated the internet but shows up now in a way it didn't previously

@yo' Certainly more complex than it first appears

@yo' A UK-born friend living in the US warns not to try to equate the US political spectrum with that prominent in Europe (incl. the UK, which itself might be regarded as an outlier)

@yo' BTW, unmatched delimiter :-)

Are there any statistics how many first commits on github actually have the message initial commit?

@JosephWright the way it's applied on the internet is ridiculous, though, since nothing is really checked. The CC payment of $0.30 makes sense to me -- it's probably the smallest payment you can make to get >=$0 from the transaction. Owning a CC is a good sign that you're an adult :D

@Johannes_B ummmm all?

I mean, except the ones whose initial commit message is "shit"

@yo' Oh quite, I didn't say it was sensible

@JosephWright and that's the problem. Having non-sensible laws is what I call lawocracy. Having non-sensible paperwork is what I consider bureaucracy. They both together lead to people lying all the time.

This case is both: it's a non-sensible law (at least in my opinion), enforced by a non-sensible "check this box if you're at least 13yo" form

I have a very similar opinion on "you must be at least 18yo to enter our porn website", but that's yet a bit different story.

@yo' I assume that is more of a 'legal cover' than anything else

@JosephWright and I say that a law that exists only to be broken all the time is a bad law.

anyway, I gotta go, see you tomorrow

Is there a command so that the second ">" symbol and the "=" symbol are under the first ">" symbol ?? @DavidCarlisle

Morning

@MaryStar -- put an & before the sign of relation. basic concept.

Ok... Thanks!! :-) @barbarabeeton

Which is the difference between these two commands?? @DavidCarlisle

@MaryStar -- david's correct here. but if this/these were to be numbered, then if it's logically a single equation that gets a single number, then equation and split would be more appropriate. if you consider it to be deserving of three numbers, one per line, then align is the thing to use.

@MaryStar texdoc amsmath has several examples of each of those environments.

@DavidCarlisle I'm using your (in my opinion awesome) answer which sets marginpars according to page number on the second run: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/49983/… aside from the two \vskip commands, what other skips are available here? I mean, it works perfectly, but my document now has five hundred times "underfull vbox while output is active"

@1010011010 so I spent 10 minutes three years ago making an answer and you ask me to debug it with no test file?

@DavidCarlisle Ask and ye shall receive

\documentclass[twoside]{article}

\RequirePackage{sidenotes}

\makeatletter
\newbox\@mpbox
\global\setbox\@mpbox\vbox{}
\def\savedpos#1#2#3#4{%
\begingroup
\let\@positions\relax
\expandafter\xdef\csname sp@#1-#2\endcsname{%
\expandafter\ifx\csname sp@#1-#2\endcsname\relax
\else
\csname sp@#1-#2\endcsname
\fi
  \@positions{#3}{#4}}%
\endgroup}

\def\marginpar#1{%
  \saveposition{mpar}%
  \global\setbox\@mpbox\vbox{\unvbox\@mpbox\hbox{%
  \hbox{\parbox{\marginparwidth}{\@marginparreset#1}}%
  \hbox{\parbox{\marginparwidth}{\@marginparreset#1}}%

@DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda... @DavidCarlisle claimed some bloke does manage a list who works with GitHub etc. You could add another maniac to the github list (guess who!)

@Johannes_B: Well, I added the stuff to GitHub then

@1010011010 ???? that uses the definition of \marginpar but you don't use it, you just use \sidenotes from the sidenotes package (that I don't know at all)?

@DavidCarlisle Fair enough, I'll break it down further then...

\documentclass[twoside]{article}

\usepackage{xparse}
\makeatletter


\NewDocumentCommand \sidenote { +m }
{
  \marginpar{#1}
}


\newbox\@mpbox
\global\setbox\@mpbox\vbox{}
\def\savedpos#1#2#3#4{%
\begingroup
\let\@positions\relax
\expandafter\xdef\csname sp@#1-#2\endcsname{%
\expandafter\ifx\csname sp@#1-#2\endcsname\relax
\else
\csname sp@#1-#2\endcsname
\fi
  \@positions{#3}{#4}}%
\endgroup}

\def\marginpar#1{%
  \saveposition{mpar}%
  \global\setbox\@mpbox\vbox{\unvbox\@mpbox\hbox{%
  \hbox{\parbox{\marginparwidth}{\@marginparreset#1}}%

Seems like a LaTeX3 issue. e.g. \let\sidenote\marginpar instead of the NewDocumentCommand thing works just fine.

@PauloCereda Already asleep? How badly jetlagged are you?

@yo' Hi! :) So far so good. :)

@PauloCereda good to know :-)

@1010011010 tex.stackexchange.com/questions/242163/…

@egreg Yeah, I saw. Shame.

I guess I'll code my own sidenotes then.....

@1010011010 It's very difficult to understand what you're into, without even any comment in the code.

@egreg Sorry. A part of me hoped that @DavidCarlisle was around to look into it, since most of it is his code.

@1010011010 Anyway, something is certain: it is something related to how you do \marginpar and has absolutely nothing to do with \NewDocumentCommand.

@egreg Correct :-)

@egreg Is there any hope if I change the question title and text? ...

@1010011010 Not from me, sorry.

Friends, you guys are so kind. I don't deserve this love. <3

@PauloCereda: The chat was no more without you ... bereft of its life ;-)

@PauloCereda What love? :P

@egreg Some thingy. :P

@PauloCereda No roaming at all in Spain?

@PauloCereda Or Catalonia, to be precise. :)

@PauloCereda: You could use your knowledge of Spanish language ;-)

@egreg My plan was not international. :P

@ChristianHupfer Catalan, you mean. :) They have some sort of \cdot in their language, it's crazy!

@PauloCereda: I know that in Barcelona they are quite special about the Catalan ;-)

@ChristianHupfer They are only about Catalan. :P

@PauloCereda: The Catalans are Spain's Bavarians :-P

@ChristianHupfer Like Bavarians, Catalans speak a language different from the main country's language.

@egreg I know

@ChristianHupfer You'll be surprised by my German, when in Darmstadt. ;-)

@egreg: I'll be more surprised if I would be in Darmstadt ;-)

@ChristianHupfer :(

@egreg: Sorry, but as German 'Beamter' at school I got no leave to attend the conference. I would have met all of you from the very heart ...

@MathewCarrick: Welcome to the TeX.SX.chat... \begin{chat}.... ...

@egreg: We are very proud of you ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Well, removed it. :)

@egreg: I've seen anyway what you did (posted) (recently)

Any ideas on my CWEB verbatim question? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/242036/… @DavidCarlisle?

@ChristianHupfer: Thank you!

@AndrewCashner why me? I've never used cweb:-) can't you just use \obeylines and \tt (more or less)

@AndrewCashner posted an answer....

@egreg I realise adding a setting of \vbadness to 10000 to silence underfull box warnings is tricky for you:-)

@DavidCarlisle Well, I'd avoid the underfull box in the first place.

@egreg it's not in the output, I just need to disassemble the box so vsplit to maxdimen but there is always a forced \break somewhere, as I said to 1010011010 above it was a few minutes spent on an answer 3 years ago, can't recall why I did it that way but....

Why was there a little circle with a 1 and an offensive message in it, asking me if it was an offensive message?

@Canageek: You were asked? That never happened to me so far

@Canageek that's a chat flag. In chat, flags are considered urgent, so they're delivered to all "high rep" users all around the network.

@Canageek because you have 10K rep and can decide such important issues.

@Canageek just ignore it and it goes away. Lots of people say rude things to each other and get flagged, but the people in that chat room usually deal with it. No idea why it pings the entire network really.

@DavidCarlisle @yo' That makes sense. The first one I got, months ago, was about autism, so I was really confused on how someone knew I was on the spectrum, and why they were sending me an insulting message.

@Canageek ah :D

@Canageek: But I can hardly remember insults here in TeX.SX chat , so this holds

@ChristianHupfer Yeah, I thought it was really odd

@ChristianHupfer I get insulted all the time, you just don't notice

It's not a serious business really. Sometimes there's a sequence of flags on older posts, like days ago, which I consider ridiculous. I'm happy that people in this room are willing to face each other and when someone says something offending, they point it out fairly and firmly.

@DavidCarlisle: I notice, I am insulting you too :-P Consider my recurring jokes on your talent to make drawings ;-)

@DavidCarlisle oh poor little David

:-P

@Canageek ^^ proof by example :D

see what I mean

@DavidCarlisle Sorry for that, I couldn't resist

@ChristianHupfer don't remind that, with the drawings, it's acually @David offending everybody else!

@yo' I knew

@yo' some people just don't appreciate great art.

@DavidCarlisle like the modern art gallery that, as a joke, added an IKEA drawing for 10 euros in the exhibition. Some "expert" said that he "would be willing to pay €1.5 million for it maybe, but surely not more"

@ChristianHupfer apparently I don't understand the markdown syntax either:-)

@DavidCarlisle: I couldn't resist :-P

@egreg yes I never claimed originality for that:-)

@1010011010 ^^^^

@egreg Yep, precisely that one.

@DavidCarlisle I'm going to accept your answer but I still feel like there should be a way to do this without TeX yapping about it.

@1010011010 there is, that's what the answer shows

@DavidCarlisle Yeah, I didn't mean that. :-)

\vbadness10000 is cheating

@1010011010 no it's using tex commands for their intended purpose.

@DavidCarlisle So why would their intended purpose still cause a warning of infinite badness? There's certainly something wrong somewhere.

@1010011010 no, using \vbadness for it's intended purpose of turning off the warning.

@DavidCarlisle I'm talking about \vsplit... I mean in the context of what you want to do, \vsplit is the right way to go about it. Shouldn't applying the command in the right use case not produce an error? (Not produce an error without the use of \vadbness.)