TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Q: latex table border dont appear / to big / to small

1

still working on that table. Here's my new question reguarding the table borders: It appears, that i do something wrong setting boarders. Here is my code, and a screenshot: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{multirow} % Used for the vertical cells \usepackage{rotating} % Used for the vertical ...

tables

@PaulGessler actually this is better (but closed as dup)

1

Q: How to prevent the borders of colored cell from disappear

the borders of the colored cells disappear in low size and appear when zooming in. Here is my code \documentclass[12pt, fleqn]{article} \usepackage[portuges]{babel} \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} \usepackage{graphicx} \usepackage{colortbl} \usepackage{hhline} \begin{document} \begin{table}[ht] \...

tables color

Paul Gessler

Yep, the second one is what I was thinking of. I thought there was a more general one than your first link, of which many Q's were closed as dupes.

Perhaps not though

@PaulGessler first one is \cline which is not supported by colortbl so not really related to viewer artefacts maybe should answer the second and vote for reopen

12:51 AM

Quick question: would you like arara to deal with filename wildcards? :)

Heiko Oberdiek

4:27 AM

@JosephWright The daily spammer: tex.stackexchange.com/users/59601/ling

6:31 AM

If you dream of having thick hair, now your dream come true.

►

9:01 AM

I thought that mathjax should produce the same latex as pdflatex in the browser? But it seems not to handle \& well. Here is a screen shot of pdflatex output and mathjax compiled by tex4ht. Notice the difference is ampersand on the right

@Nasser You thought wrong. ;-)

@Nasser well that isn't really related to mathjax or pdftex it is simply font choice

@DavidCarlisle Ok. This was generated by tex4ht and I view it on firefox. I configured it to use mathml and mathjax. I do not know any more than that. It comes out from \& in the code. not big deal, just that pdflatex \& easier to see than mathjax.

@Nasser but in general since mathjax and pdflatex don't share a single line of code there is no particular reason other than the good will of Davide Cervone why there should be any similarity, but I just saw you are using mathml so you are probably not seeing the mathjax rendering anyway but the native firefox rendering

@Nasser It's a browser if you are using firefox native rendering and you have not specified otherwise the choice of font is up to the reader not the author same as the rest of the html page.

9:16 AM

@DavidCarlisle ok, thanks for the explanation.

I keep getting Tex capacity exceeded on a small file, but pdflatex has no problem with it. Only tex4ht gives this error:
*geometry* driver: auto-detecting
*geometry* detected driver: dvips
) [1] [2] (/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/ae/t1aett.fd)
(./KERNEL2.4ct) [3]
! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000].
\n:left: #1->\a:left {#1
                        }\o:left: .\b:left {#1}
l.65 $\left\{
             \left\{y(x)\to c_1 e^{-f(x)}+f(x)-1\right\}\right\}$
Output written on KERNEL2.dvi (260 pages, 81328 bytes).

I am trying to find why. I can reproduce it on a small file.

will update once I find more....

This happens once I started using mathml+mathjax. When using png for math, tex4ht has no problem.

9:32 AM

@DavidCarlisle I found why! You won't believe it. When I use your trick you gave me the other day, I get the tex capacity exceeded!
\let\left\relax
\let\right\relax
\let\oldfrac\frac
\renewcommand\sqrt[2][2]{(#2)^{\oldfrac{1}{#1}}}
\def\frac#1#2{(#1)/(#2)}

When I comment the above, then the error goes away. This only happens when I compile using the mathml configuration using tex4ht. When I compile using png images for math, there is no such issue at all !

@Nasser of course I believe it, I was about to say same, it's hardly unexpected if you redefine a tex primitive

And it does not happen with pdflatex.

@DavidCarlisle but it works ok with pdflatex?

I like to keep it as it really helped.

@DavidCarlisle I was wrapping all the code with \begin{flushleft}....\end{flushleft} and with your trick, I know can see the code spread out. But strange that it causes no problem with pdflatex, but it does with tex4ht only when I switched to mathml.

@Nasser it was a quick hack to save editing the file but editing the generated expression to remove \left \right would obviously be better but clearly from the `\n:left commands you show above tex4ht is redefining \left \right itself to make them generate what is needed for html and it can hardly be expected to have been programmed to expect these commands are both defined the same way, to be \relax

@Nasser The problem is that the input you get from Mathematica/Matlab/Matwhatever is buggy; if you try fixing a part, some other part breaks.

@DavidCarlisle I see. I switched to mathml+mathjax, as the page was getting too large to load with all the .png files. No problem will remove your nice trick for now.

@DavidCarlisle I can;t edit the output from Maple and Mathematica by hand. Since this is all automated and I run the build many times and needed something I can inject from the outside to fix it. What I can do, is use your trick for pdf only, and when in latex mode, will not use it (\ifdefined

9:40 AM

@Nasser well then (most likely) you will get the same problem that the expression is all on one line

@Nasser you don't need to edit it by hand, that's why we have computers with editing software

@DavidCarlisle I do not understand. How can I automate this software on the fly without knowing what the equation that will be generated is?

@Nasser sed -i -e 's/\\left|\\right//g' for example would remove all left right

as I said, I can edit things each time, as the edits will be lost next time I run the build.

@DavidCarlisle yes, but this will break all the places where these are actually needed? right?

What if there is ( large fraction here ) and I remove the \left( and the \right) ? Then it will look terrible with small () right?

@Nasser what do you think \let\left\relax does? that breaks far more things. Just removing explict \left just removes them but making \left a no op also stops \big being big

@Nasser you won't have a large fraction as you have redefined \frac to make 1/2 not 1 over 2

@DavidCarlisle Ok, will try your suggestion and see what will happen. So I should remove all \left and \right and replace them with normal parenthesis and see what happens. thanks for the idea

9:47 AM

@Nasser don't replace just remove \left \right and any trailing .

@DavidCarlisle Ok. What do you mean by "tailing"? will remove "\left" and "\right" from all the code, right?

For example
\left\{ y \left( x \right) =
will become
\{ y ( x ) =

@Nasser yes but if you have "cases" done as \left\{ stuff \right. you need to remove the . after \right

@DavidCarlisle Ok. Should I keep your
\let\oldfrac\frac
\renewcommand\sqrt[2][2]{(#2)^{\oldfrac{1}{#1}}}
\def\frac#1#2{(#1)/(#2)}
at the top of the file?

I will remove these 2 lines
%\let\left\relax
%\let\right\relax

@cgnieder: ooh you are convincing me to replace my songs usage by leadsheets! :)

@Nasser well again i wouldn't do that globally (unless all your expressions are autogenerated mess) I would define new commands inlinefrac and inlinesqrt that did that and edit your generated big expressions replacing \frac by \inlinefrac etc

9:54 AM

@DavidCarlisle fyi, First \left gone

@DavidCarlisle: write more answers, so we can celebrate your 200k achievement. :P

The \right is gone. Now I am ready to compile it !

@egreg you're always happy to see less \left\right see @Nasser's images above, they should make you ecstatic:-)

@DavidCarlisle :) That's a genre of formulas I like!

@egreg: will there be another cake next Saturday? :)

9:59 AM

I'm sure if one of your students brought that to you as homework answer you would read and check every exponent

@PauloCereda That's quite possible.

@egreg woohoo

Hey I missed this, did we have a party?

Mathjax is so slow! Here is a live view, just recorded loading one page. At this rate, will take 30 minutes to load the page

watch the % change.

@Nasser use firefox or safari and complain to your browser maker otherwise.

10:09 AM

This is recorded at 30 fps

@DavidCarlisle this is on firefox

loading .png math is 100 times faster than this!

@Nasser well you don't need to use mathjax rendering on firefox so you can make that a gazillion times faster

@Nasser not if you are on a slow connection paying by the KB:-)

@DavidCarlisle I do not understand what you mean. I just build the page using tex4ht and told it to use mathml and used mathjax in the browser. What else I am supposed to do. my speed is very fast, my ISP speed is the fastest in the country, I pay $60/month to get the highest speed :)

@Nasser also if you configure mathjax not to put up that status bar it seems a lot faster. The first few expressions display and by the time you have read them and scrolled down the later ones will be there. So it's only an issue if you don't expect your readers to read the expressions, but if that's the case why put them there?

if I upload the above to my ISP, no body would want to use it, as it is so slow to load

@Nasser It's your readers who pay and their bandwidth that matters.

@Nasser you can configure mathjax to use native mathml on firefox or do as I do and configure the page not to use mathjax at all on firefox. If you have mathml in the page just remove the mathjax script block and look at it with firefox

10:15 AM

@David: Take a look at Shovel Knight, it's a game that M might like. :)

@DavidCarlisle thanks, will try that. Will mathml on its own work for someone not using firefox?

@PauloCereda I might dedicate it to you :)

waiting to load .....

its been only 20 minutes or so :)

@cgnieder Oh no! :P

This is not going to work. Will now try mathml on its own. No mathjax.

10:21 AM

@Nasser: sorry, wrong ping. :)

@Nasser works well in firefox works OK most the time in safari doesn't work in chrome or IE but as I say they have open bugs about that, I configure my pages to just load mathjax if they are not on firefox then if people want no internet conection or speed they can use that or they wait for mathjax. But browser majes do take note of real pages that take minutes longer to load on their browser, so chrome could add mathml if they were persuaded to bothere

@PauloCereda It's not ready, yet, but I'm getting there :)

@Nasser but as we said some days back there is absolutely no point in typesetting those expressions anyway:-)

@DavidCarlisle Ok, but for now, png math works on all browsers. So may be I should stick to png and visit this again in 2-3 years.

@cgnieder Two quick questions (I just quickly glanced at your doc): is it possible to format each song part (say, making the chorus bold) and "removing" the need of ending each line with `\\`?

10:24 AM

@DavidCarlisle I put the equation as section title (to click on it), so the above it actually the table of content loading. Once the toc loads, then the rest of the document loads, which might take another 3 hrs

@Nasser I wouldn't even attempt to read that amount of math served as pngs I'd just move on to another site, but it's a free world...

@DavidCarlisle I have a pdf file. HTML is just extra

@PauloCereda Custom formatting is on my TODO list.

@Nasser frankly that's just silly for an expression that size, it defeats the whole point of a table of contents.

@DavidCarlisle Of course we did!

10:26 AM

@cgnieder ooh neat!

@Nasser I wouldn't read a pdf with expressions that long either. No one is, surely.

@DavidCarlisle what is wrong of putting the equation as the section title? done all the time?

@PauloCereda I thought about removing \\ but I haven't made any serious tests yet. If I add it I'd like to make it optional so users can choose if they want \\ or not

@Nasser If it is "a=2" perhaps (but often considered bad style) if it is longerthan that, never.

@cgnieder wooohooo

10:27 AM

@DavidCarlisle chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/41?m=16615751#16615751

Jul 16 at 14:27, by egreg

@DavidCarlisle Ok, will remove the equation from the section title, and keep just text. Should be faster

@egreg oh I was even there and commented:-)

Claudio Fiandrino

@egreg: Congratulations!! I just realized you recently entered in the 300k club :)

@ClaudioFiandrino A very exclusive one! ;-)

Claudio Fiandrino

@egreg Indeed :)

10:29 AM

@DavidCarlisle Exactly like you participate to work meetings. ;-)

@egreg of course

11:11 AM

Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I!

11:44 AM

firefox could not handle mathjax !

it froze

too much load.

too much /math/

11:56 AM

@Nasser Er, I believe you mean it could not handle your code which uses MathJaX. :)

@PauloCereda exactly ! I am using too much math in table of content.

I am fixing this now, removing all the math from TOC.

technology is still not ready for all this math on the web. Will try again in 10 years :)

Hello to everybody

Oh no, using % arara: lualatexmk again.

1:01 PM

@Johannes_B You are already using arara way more than me. :)

@PauloCereda User cis provided a new rule and is looking for linux users to test it :-)

texwelt.de/wissen/fragen/7574/…

@Johannes_B I'm so worried that I'll change the rule format. He will be disapointed. :)

@PauloCereda Tell him.

@Johannes_B Soon. :)

@PauloCereda Do you think a rule to unzip an archive with arara might be useful/helpful?

1:03 PM

@JosephWright This happened after the new release. ;-)

> latex
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.15 (TeX Live 2014) (preloaded format=latex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
**\RequirePackage{l3str}
entering extended mode
LaTeX2e <2014/05/01>
Babel <3.9k> and hyphenation patterns for 79 languages loaded.

*
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3experimental/l3str/l3str.sty
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3kernel/expl3.sty
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/l3kernel/expl3-code.tex
(/usr/local/texlive/2014/texmf-dist/tex/latex/etex-pkg/etex.sty))

@Johannes_B I really don't know. I have lots of user stories.

@PauloCereda I would prefer my comfortable little guake terminal.

@Johannes_B :)

@egreg hihi

@Johannes: a taste of things to come, hold on:

1:06 PM

@Johannes_B Joseph complained because I spotted a typo in the documentation of expl3 a few hours after the last release. So I ascertained that the present (small) problem is due to the new release itself. ;-)

@egreg i sometimes spot typos in docs, but i am usually in a worry and don't collect them. I should start that.

@egreg: we will be able to show UI things from rules as well. :)

@PauloCereda Add “You are using fncychap! Remove it and penitentiagite!”

5

@PauloCereda Looks nice

@egreg It is possible! :) We can scan the current document and show messages accordingly. :)

@Johannes_B ;)

I'm telling you guys, this release will be a beast. :(

1:26 PM

@egreg I'll double-check: I thought I'd dealt with that one

Two small questions. How can one know what are the current develpments of expl3? I mean, to know what are the hot topics in the heads of the LaTeX3 team, and what packages/problems/solutions are going to release next (or developping right know).

@Manuel Ask on LaTeX-L?

@JosephWright Mmm… I'm not sure what you mean. I meant like, the \tl_upper_case:nn was announced there, but it was more like a “surprise” (probably seeng something in the git repository would help…) than an expected :)

Paul Gessler

@percusse I don't understand your comment here:

May take negative values but shouldn't. Try \tikz{\node[draw] (a) at (0,0) [inner sep = -5pt] {\Huge A}; \draw (a) -- (5mm,0);}. It leads to miscalculated bounding boxes too. — percusse 3 mins ago

That does exactly as I'd expect it to.

Second small question (this one probably deserves a question in the site, but I'm still figuring it out, how to ask it without being too broad). Imagine you wanted to draw delimiters (parenthesis, angles, brackets, …) with TikZ, to offer a better solution to bigger delimiters. Are there any easy ways of making it faster (to paint the delimiters). For instance, drawing arrows at end of line seems not to make the compilation much longer...

1:36 PM

@Manuel A lot of the discussion about 'what next' is internal: asking on LaTeX-L is the best way to find out what individuals think and importantly is all archived

And… in case you wanted to make them automatically larger (like \left or \right) which would be the faster way of calculating the height of the contents? (If I have one TikZ-drawn parenthesis inside another, setting a box and measuring it takes a loot of time – and increases when there are more nested tikz drawn delimiters).

@JosephWright Okey. Understood :)

@PauloCereda it looks really useful

@Nasser The assumption is that that typeset web pages are designed to be read by humans, that's still likely to be the assumption in 10 years time

2

2:05 PM

@JosephWright Here's the start of l3str.sty

\RequirePackage{expl3}
\GetIdInfo$Id: l3str-expl.dtx 5226 2014-07-18 18:08:01Z joseph $
  {L3 Experimental strings}
\def\ExplSyntaxName{l3str}
\ProvidesExplPackage
  {\ExplFileName}{\ExplFileDate}{\ExplFileVersion}{\ExplFileDescription}

If you look at l3sort.sty you see

\RequirePackage{expl3}
\GetIdInfo$Id: l3sort.dtx 4623 2013-12-14 13:53:40Z bruno $
  {L3 Experimental sorting functions}
\ProvidesExplPackage
  {\ExplFileName}{\ExplFileDate}{\ExplFileVersion}{\ExplFileDescription}

@egreg Ah, I see what I've got wrong

percusse

@PaulGessler You can't draw lines from the node or you can't get the bounding box correct with negative inner sep values. So it might not be good advice per se.

Try it with standalone class and you'll see that the letter is clipped.

So it's just a comment on the first part of your answer

@egreg Will be fixed in next release

@JosephWright I was sure. ;-)

@egreg I'm currently in a field, so the responses may be a little slower than usual (summer holiday time)

2:16 PM

@JosephWright Playing golf?

@egreg No, camping (or at least in a camper van: a new experience)

@JosephWright Does the site provide a cricket pitch?

We have to mention cricket at least once a day, don't we?

Mar 6 '12 at 14:09, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda, @RoelofSpijker, @egreg, new house rules: for every line discussing football, needs to be one discussing cricket

Paul Gessler

@percusse I see your point, but in certain cases using negative inner sep does exactly what's needed (as in the question). But using fit is a much better solution anyway. I'll add a note.

@DavidCarlisle At least, England will lose on a good pitch: bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/28463126

2:23 PM

@egreg Large site, lots of space, so informal cricket quite possible. Didn't actually bring my set this year: like I say, something of an experiment (we are hoping to go to Lago Maggiore next year and want to see how we get on in a camper).

@Manuel A lot of the stuff is just in one or other of the team members minds, or on their PC, so it's not always so straight-forward :-)

3:05 PM

@JosephWright you could take on an @egreg 11 at cricket if you go to the Italian lakes

@DavidCarlisle Bring a bat also for me.

@JosephWright Yes, I thought of that. It was more like “Do you have a public roadmap?” :)

3:54 PM

@cgnieder texwelt.de/wissen/fragen/7594/…

@cgnieder Ich hab Frank da gerade hingeschickt, da die Archivierung besser ist. Aber eine Frage isses ja gar nicht.

@Johannes_B Seems to me that a blog post on texwelt.de/blog would be a good candidate for things like this. Let's see what @StefanKottwitz thinks

@cgnieder Waiting for @stefankottwitz

@PauloCereda a warning message for everything in l2tabu? (probably very annoying, though, ...)

4:16 PM

Who can add % right after the opening { of FP@pow in fp-exp.sty? As far as I remember someone tried to contact the TeXLive to fix this issue because the package fp has no active maintainers right now. See the screenshot below.

4:30 PM

@Pleasedon'ttouch Raise the problem on the TeX Live mailing list

@PauloCereda will the old (i.e. pre v4.0) syntax for rules still work?

@egreg OK. THanks

@Pleasedon'ttouch Such problems have been solved in the past just by adding the missing % (considering it not a breach of copyright).

@egreg But I still have the unmodified version even after installing TeX Live 2014 with the last update.

@Pleasedon'ttouch Until somebody adds the missing %…

4:34 PM

@egreg Adding % looks like lifting a mountain.

@Pleasedon'ttouch Well, if nobody in charge with the maintenance of TeX Live is made aware of the problem, nobody will fix it. Send a message to the list, linking to the relevant question here, and you'll see the fix in a few days, probably.

@egreg OK. I will do it several minutes later.

I don't understand why the following is not compilable.

\documentclass[12pt]{standalone}
\usepackage{fourier}
\begin{document}
The position of a particle moving along the $x$-axis is given as
\[
s_t=s_0+v_0t+\frac 1 2 at^2
\]
where $s_0$, $v_0$, $a$, and $t$ represent the initial position, initial speed, acceleration, and the time, respectively.
Even though you are not interested in physics, please be quiet.
%
\noindent
And now \ldots
\end{document}

@Johannes_B Stimmt eigentlich. Ich kommentiere mal was dazu.

@Pleasedon'ttouch you can't have display stuff by default you need

 \documentclass[12pt,varwidth=true]{standalone}

@DavidCarlisle OK. Thanks.

4:46 PM

@Pleasedon'ttouch of course the \noindnet isn't doing anything there

@DavidCarlisle Yes. It was taken from this tex.stackexchange.com/a/98214/19356 but I want to test whether or not the \noindent has no effect in crop=true.

@Pleasedon'ttouch never understood why standalone comes up so often to be honest, it's Ok at what it does but I always assumed it was a very niche use

@Pleasedon'ttouch well it will certainly have no effect unless it is the beginning of a paragraph

@StefanKottwitz Thanks. BTW: You should see the Prof mentioned. Giving a lecture he is covered with chalk, sitting in the Mensa always hitting on women. And he is about 70 now.

@DavidCarlisle OK. I am trying... because minipage by default kills indent. Both crop, preview, minipage apparently kill indent.

@Pleasedon'ttouch minipages have \parindent set to 0pt by default

4:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle I never understand why it is set to 0 by default.

@Pleasedon'ttouch got to set it to something

@Johannes_B I would be glad if I could do that with 70 :-o

@DavidCarlisle Getting a tight output is the reason I use standalone. The tight output then can be converted to PNG which I upload to this site. All of the process is done by a batch file.

@Pleasedon'ttouch the width attribute is user settable \parbox{10pt}{....} and the behaviour of texs linebreaking isn't that good if the parindent is bigger than the hsize, so what would_you_ have defined it to be, some synamic value based on the specified box width?

@Johannes_B I'm covered with digital plot points, did not use chalk. Just finished a blog post on tikz.de

4:54 PM

@DavidCarlisle It does make sense.

@StefanKottwitz Seems i have something to read this weekend.

@Pleasedon'ttouch yes but I'd never do that for answers as standalone is so different from a normal class (display math being an error by default for example) that you never know if the standalone answer applies in a real document. I'd only use it on internal jobs for special documents that were only being generated to generate images.

@DavidCarlisle With preview=true or just preview, math display is fine, the problem is about parindent as far as I know.

@Pleasedon'ttouch yes but the fact that that isn't the default is a hint at how radically different the class is. It's not a bad package (I think actually it's probably quite good at doing what it does) but the possibilities of what it does meaning a document fragment does not look like it would in article class is not that small:-)

@Pleasedon'ttouch you can always use \parindent=1in and put it back

@DavidCarlisle But I have to patch as Egreg did in his answer. It seems to be tedious.

5:01 PM

@Pleasedon'ttouch @egreg's answers are always tedious, it's a fact of nature can't help with that, sorry:-)

@DavidCarlisle I will contact the author to add a new feature to let users preserve the parindent.

Agh... I apparently already sent the same request several years ago.

Dear Martin Scharrer,

I noticed that both preview package and standalone class don't preserve the paragraph indentation.
This issue has been patched by Enrico in his answer http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/98214/19356.

I think it will be convenient if you provide us with an additional option to the standalone document class
such that we don't need to write the patch codes whenever we want to active the paragraph indentation.

I intensively used standalone class for my daily projects so the requested option will save more keystrokes

Request declined... :(

5:21 PM

@cgnieder Sadly, no. Everything new written from scratch. :(

@cgnieder: there is also a catch: files are not supported by default, you need to process it in your rule (it's easy though). :)

I mean, the files key.

replicate(
   build('pdflatex',
           shell,
           synctex,
           quote('%s')
   ),
   files
)

@cgnieder: ^^ :)

@PauloCereda Is there some kind of compatibility mode?

@Johannes_B No. At first I thought of adding one, but it would be insanely complicated to maintain. But I won't upload the tool to CTAN any soon, only when people understands the changes. :)

I might write a converter though.

@PauloCereda Thanks.

@Johannes_B The migration is quite straightforward. For example:

@PauloCereda Btw: The park where the ducklings live isn't big and/or peaceful :-(

5:27 PM

- id: engine
  flag: '@{parameters.engine}'
  default: pdflatex

becomes

ensure('engine', 'pdflatex')

:)

@cgnieder: ^^ :)

@Johannes_B it's very beautiful! :)

@PauloCereda my pov: looks more comprehendable

@Johannes_B That's the idea. :)

@PauloCereda I might become a fan of arara after all.

@Johannes_B You are already being converted to the bird side. :)

@PauloCereda But you need to assure me the existence of lualatexmk ;-)

5:31 PM

@Johannes_B Brent's department. :)

@PauloCereda I trust @Brent in this regard.

@Johannes_B :)

@David: I'll replace the engine and use Lisp for V7. :P

@cgnieder: Also, we will have #else and #finally. :)

@DavidCarlisle But they get ticks.

To be honest, still didn't update to TL14. Nevertheless, can someone please test the following?

\listfiles
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{algorithm}
\begin{document}
%algorithm.sty    2009/08/24 v0.1 Document Style `algorithm' - floating environment
\begin{algorithmic}
\STATE Input parameters
\end{algorithmic}
\end{document}

@PauloCereda well, I only have two custom rules and only use one of them regularly. Won't be a big deal for me

@PauloCereda the new power is worth the new syntax :)

5:44 PM

@cgnieder But @cis will be devastated

@Johannes_B Maybe. He seems to be willing to drive arara to its limits

@cgnieder Seems like it :-)

@Johannes_B the algorithmic package is missing

@Pleasedon'ttouch "preserve" from what though? the parindent people are used to is the one set in article (or whatever class they use) si if you change class to standalone you don't really want to ask parindent is preserved but rather that it is set to something

@egreg mostly undeserved of course:-)

@Johannes_B after including it it compiles flawlessly. I have no idea if the output is as it is supposed to be, though

5:47 PM

@cgnieder Thanks for having a look. Is it just late, or is texdoc algorithm unclear?

@Johannes_B sorry, have to go rehearsing. See you later

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I computed that 250000 points of my rep are either from undeserved votes and ticks or from deserved votes for missing %

@egreg sounds about right, although maybe a few thousand were for interesting uses of ooalign, I'll give you that,

@cgnieder Have fun.

!!/battle

Nay, Psmith's sound sleeping.

!!/eightball Is 85% of my rep due to undeserved upvotes and ticks of from upvotes about missing %'s?

6:06 PM

@egreg Just a minute. :)

!!/help

@PauloCereda Psmith, the TeX bot: Good afternoon! I'm Psmith, the friendly TeX bot - the p in my name is silent, as in pshrimp. I'm here as a companion to our fellow users in the typographic land. As you probably noticed, I always reply under Paulo's account, but do not despair, I say, my replies are always preceded by my own name. Enjoy your stay at TeX.sx! If you need any help, just ask our chat residents. Cheerio!

!!/eightball Is 85% of my rep due to undeserved upvotes and ticks of from upvotes about missing %'s?

@egreg Psmith, the TeX bot: The great 8-ball says: there's a disturbance in the Force.

!!/battle

@egreg Psmith, the TeX bot: The current score is egreg 215 vs. 180 David. So far, egreg is winning.

:)

6:08 PM

@cgnieder Pretty much my thoughts. :) I think there was a big mistake on my part of using YAML to write the rule scheme, so hopefully now things will be fixed in the most elegant way. :)

@egreg woohoo

Train arriving. See you later.

@DavidCarlisle I want standalone to preserve the parindent as other document classes do.

for example, if the first paragraph use parindent of 12pt, and if we change to 14pt, for the subsequent paragraphs, then all of these settings are preserved as is without any modification.

7:01 PM

@StefanKottwitz: Mods have a "super-ping", right? @@user rather than @user.

Hello

@ChristianHupfer Hi!

@Werner: Thanks for that images of the post, but I believe you without them ;-)

Sorry, phone call...

@ChristianHupfer Well, now you have proof as well...

Hello guys

I've got a short question: How can I know if a LaTeX command is a single glyph? E.g.: Is \phi a glyph? Is \varphi a (different) glyph?

7:15 PM

@moose Perhaps \show\phi and see whether it's doing more than just selecting an entry from the font.

@Werner I get > \phi=\mathchar"11E. and > \varphi=\mathchar"127.. What does that mean?

@moose That means it's selecting the character from the (math) font. If it was anything else you'd notice that it's actually constructing the symbol. For example, \dddot{a}, There is no triple-dot a in any font, so the ... is placed on top as a construction of a and a raised ....

See Dot Derivative Discrepancy.

@egreg have you ever invoked !!/battle when you're not winning?

Q: Sharp or angled v in math mode (\varv)

@moose: Also see the following post:

6

I'm trying to achive a more angled $v$ that is more distinct from $u$. The default math mode v looks like this in the default font: What I'm trying to achive is something like this (from txfonts): (Edit: the picture is a bit misleading - I posted it to demonstrate the angledness. I'm not tr...

fonts math-mode

back

7:22 PM

You can use fonttable to view the font and see what "things" are in it.

@moose "0127 means hex 0= mathord, hex 1 which means character comes from font \fam 1 and "27 means it is the character in slot hex 27

7:43 PM

@DavidCarlisle No, because I'm winning most of the times. :P

@cgnieder: a teaser: I have a rule to submit the current document to writeLaTeX. :)

@egreg: I could write a rule that sends an email to David everytime a document with longtable fails to compile.

Holy cow, that's true! I can add hooks to exit codes! WOOOHOOO

8:03 PM

@egreg sadly true:-)

@DavidCarlisle Just like England in cricket. :P

1 min ago, by David Carlisle

@egreg sadly true:-)

@DavidCarlisle You should do something about your national team. Buy them new bats.

@egreg general feeling is they need a new captain:-)

8:20 PM

@Werner Ok. And I've also got a follow-up question regarding the term "glyph": Is every entry in a symbol table a glyph and is every glyph an entry in a symbol table?

@moose Good question. I'm not sure/very familiar with that kind of language. The same goes for a ligature... someone else might perk up about it though.

@DavidCarlisle What is mathord? Is it a math symbol table? Is there a way to look at this symbol table?

@Werner Ok. Thank you for helping me :-)

Glyph

In the context of typography, a glyph /ˈɡlɪf/ is an elemental symbol within an agreed set of symbols, intended to represent a readable character for the purposes of writing and thereby expressing thoughts, ideas and concepts. As such, Glyphs are considered to be unique marks that collectively add up to the spelling of a word, or otherwise contribute to a specific meaning of what is written, with that meaning dependent on cultural and social usage. For example, in most languages written in any variety of the Latin alphabet the dot on a lower-case "i" is not a glyph because it does not convey any...

@moose an ordinary symbol, with no special space rules as opposed to \mathbin (binary operator like +) \mathrel (binary relation like =) and a few others

Q: What exactly is a "single character" or "symbol" in math mode?

@moose There are different symbol classes in TeX. The following has a discussion on them:

25

There are at least three instances where single symbols in math mode receive a special treatment by the TeX engine: 1. when accents are placed, 2. when a math operator is created with \mathop, and 3. when an accented quantity is surrounded by braces. In each instance, different words are used in ...

math-mode tex-core

@moose: @Mico is your ligature/glyph goose... err... man.

@Werner correct, but with user id and site name

8:28 PM

@StefanKottwitz So even though a user might not have a chat account, you can ping them from here (the chat room) in that way? And the message would end up in the inbox?

either chat id or user id + site, and yes, the latter would go that way

@StefanKottwitz Do you know whether the result of that (when clicked on) would push them to the chat room? Is there a way for them to respond to it?

@StefanKottwitz: Just probing about to get some information for a question on Meta Stack Exchange regarding reviewing (audits).

@Werner It's just a message, no push yet, I did not get one myself, so I don't know how it looks, if there's a link

@Werner however, if pinged from a room, they must have access to it

@Werner That's great! Thank you. But I just read there "A <math field> is used to specify the nucleus, superscript, or subscript of an atom." and wondered: What is the nucleus? For example, if you have $A_b^c$ is A the nucleus of that?

@Werner So, a good way would be to create a private room, invite the user giving him right to the room, then ping

8:33 PM

@Werner: Yes, it works, for sometimes I got messages from chat in my inbox, when I am not in chat...

@StefanKottwitz But one can only invite a user if they have a chat account.

@ChristianHupfer That's because you have a chat account...

...not everyone has a chat account.

@Werner: Yes, I just wanted to add that, but you were faster ...

A: Make sure the spacing of a macro for a binary operator

@moose Perhaps:

10

If you define \newcommand\abs[1]{#1^\sharp} the spacing will be inherited by the nature of #1; so \abs{\sqcup} will be spaced as a binary operator and \abs{=} will be spaced as a binary relation. With you definition you get {\sqcup}^{\sharp} that's treated as an ordinary symbol. Some d...

@Werner in that case the ping creates an account

There is some scattered discussion on this, and of course there should be in the TeX Book.

@StefanKottwitz That sounds strong...

Q: Streamline moderators contacting users through chat

8:39 PM

90

If a moderator needs to contact a user (and it's not severe enough to warrant a moderator message), it's common to make a private room and ping them. The procedure is: Create a new chatroom (named "Room for UserA and UserB") Superping the user with some stub message so a chat account is created...

feature-request chat moderator-tools

@StefanKottwitz: ...do you have an opinion about how to handle robo-reviewers? Or, more generally put, people who don't review properly.

@StefanKottwitz;: But this superping is still restricted to a true moderator, i.e. a normal user with access to moderator tools can not create a chat account, or am I confused? ;-)

@Werner a review process for reviews ;-) and so on ... well, a good idea but giving points and badges may lead to bot behavior

@ChristianHupfer try :-) well I think it's for mods only

@Werner handling could be blocking from further review actions, theoretically

@StefanKottwitz Yes, reviews for reviews sounds kinda silly... I know. It's been mentioned that incentivised reviewing provides opportunities for divergent behaviour.

@StefanKottwitz Yes, review audits on other sites initiate a review ban for a certain period.

...like a slap on the wrist.

@StefanKottwitz: Well, editing does not provide much reputation ...

8:45 PM

@ChristianHupfer From the point of the site owner it's a really great value, that feature, I think

I meant the review thing, editing of course as well

@ChristianHupfer And only up to a point. But it's about incentives gained from the review process, which is mainly badges.

I suggest "You earned the Review Ban Badge" ... this can be award a multiple times. After having 5 such badges, you will get the Silver Review Badge and again, after 5 (or 10) you will earn the Golden Review Ban Badge and banned forever from Reviews ;-)

it goes beyond that users contribute value to the company, they even do quality control by peer reviewing

@ChristianHupfer Incentivised review banning. That's like Russian Roulette for the robo-reviewing interwebz.

@Werner: It was a joke ;-)

9:51 PM

Welcome to the silent chat ;-)