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David Carlisle
David Carlisle
12:09 AM
@egreg the one where I stole your comment?
@tohecz alias texworks=emacs should do it
 
tohecz
tohecz
@DavidCarlisle I'm happy with Fedora, I don't need Emacs
 
egreg
egreg
@DavidCarlisle ;-)
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg a nice one for your gallery: 
\newcommand{\fromto}{\,${--}$\,}
\def\sss{\scriptscriptstyle}
\def\U{{\sss \!U}}
\def\L{{\sss \!L}}
\def\K{{\sss \!K}}
\def\LT{{\sss \!L\,\!T}}
\def\N{{\sss \!N}}
\def\T{{\sss \!T}}
\def\D{{\sss \!D}}
\def\M{{\sss \!M}}
\def\P{{\sss \!P}}
\def\S{{\sss \!S}}
\def\I{{\sss \!I}}
\def\C{{\sss \!C}}
\def\c{{\sss \!c}}
\def\h{{\sss \!h}}
\def\w{{\sss \!w}}
\def\O{{\sss \!O}}
\def\R{{\sss \!R}}
\def\one{{\sss \!1}}
\def\two{{\sss \!2}}
\def\nur{\nu_\mathrm{r}}
\def\nuv{\nu_\theta}
\def\nuL{\nu_\L}
\def\nuU{\nu_\U}
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz The best is the last one.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg that one is quite understandable, if it was \mathcal{B} originally
I more like the 1st one :)
 
egreg
egreg
12:16 AM
@tohecz The author apparently doesn't like the output of $\nu_L$; some people think alike. But using scriptscriptstyle is worse. Just $\nu^{}_{L}$ is sufficient.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg because the L is of similar size as \nu?
Yes, that's a reasonable solution
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz Oh, yes: the first is a jewel.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg probably used in math mode :D
after a long time I'm about to refuse the code completely
haha!!! ... having small amplitude $\mathcal{E}>0$
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz And then groaning because \left and \right don't work with it in the middle.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg well, \[ F = 4\fromto5 \] is enough ;)
 
egreg
egreg
12:20 AM
@tohecz Oh, it's meant for intervals! The worst notation I can imagine, in any case.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg that's only my guess of course
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz Isn't it used in the paper?
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@egreg ooh!
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg I dunno yet No, it is not
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz Of course; preambles pasted from previous papers without thinking.
 
tohecz
tohecz
12:26 AM
@egreg preambles gotten from a colleague that "work"
 
egreg
egreg
@PauloCereda In Padova we have some frescoes by Mantegna; but only a small part of the original, unfortunately: the church was bombed during the war. The famous Cappella degli Scrovegni, with Giotto's frescoes, is only 50 meters from that church, but suffered no damage.
 
tohecz
tohecz
Can someone explain me this, please? 
\begin{figure*}
%--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\begin{minipage}{1\hsize}
\includegraphics[width=\hsize]{models_csX.eps}
\end{minipage}
\caption{Left: Sketch ...}
\label{figure:3to2}
%--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\end{figure*}
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz Cautiousness.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@egreg yep, someone would be surprised if he changed both \hsize to 0.5\hsize, thinking that's the right things to do :p
got a better one, btw: 
\begin{figure*}
%--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\begin{minipage}{1\hsize}
\begin{center}
\begin{minipage}{1\hsize}
\includegraphics[width=\hsize]{e_xpected80.eps}
\medskip

\noindent
\includegraphics[width=\hsize]{e_xpected30.eps}
\end{minipage}
\end{center}
\end{minipage}
\caption{Expected net spot flux measured by a distant observer for different inclination angles. {Left:} Amplitude spectrum. {{Right:}} Time dependent energy spectra drawn for the distant observer.}
 
egreg
egreg
@tohecz Extreme cautiousness. ;-)
 
tohecz
tohecz
12:32 AM
@egreg ROFL
 
Gonzalo Medina
Gonzalo Medina
My computer broke again, and nw it seems to be definitive. Can someone please compile the code in tex.stackexchange.com/a/167328/3954 and upload an image to my answer?
 
egreg
egreg
@GonzaloMedina I'll do it immediately.
 
Gonzalo Medina
Gonzalo Medina
@egreg Ah, thank you very much!
 
egreg
egreg
@GonzaloMedina Done
 
Gonzalo Medina
Gonzalo Medina
@egreg So I see. Thanks, again!
I am using my daughter's laptop, but switching to Windows is not easy.
 
egreg
egreg
12:37 AM
@GonzaloMedina Even if you're still 11 points ahead for the month. Don't say I'm not using fair play. ;-)
 
Gonzalo Medina
Gonzalo Medina
@egreg Hehe!
 
egreg
egreg
@GonzaloMedina So you're running for the "bad parent prize"?
 
Gonzalo Medina
Gonzalo Medina
@egreg She's visiting a friend, so I was able to use her box. Otherwise, I would have had to use my phone :)
 
egreg
egreg
@GonzaloMedina Good parents buy a Mac to their daughters.
 
Gonzalo Medina
Gonzalo Medina
@egreg Ah, I see now what you meant.
@egreg And I guess I am running for the "worst father price" since I am expecting her to grow up and start working so she can buy me a Mac :)
 
Gonzalo Medina
Gonzalo Medina
1:05 AM
Sorry for being such a nuissance, but I edited my answer, so I need help once again uploading the image: tex.stackexchange.com/a/167328/3954
Nevermind. I manage to do it.
 
 
5 hours later…
Far Zin
Far Zin
6:05 AM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I'm surprised you're surprised, as figures are much easier to read without serifs. This is consistent with most published work I've seen.
Or at least i think it's consistent...
why do you figure Serif should be used within figures
 
 
2 hours later…
michal.h21
michal.h21
8:19 AM
Hi all, I think this question is on topic, after OP's edit
0
Q: How to increase the dpi without increasing the size of the picture by any other process in LaTeX to html conversion?

venkatesan RamachandiranWhile working LaTeX to epub creation, I got images at 96 dpi, but the clarity of images are not good. I used the following coding in tex4ht.env Gconvert -T tight -x 1400 -D 96 -bg Transparent -pp Here I tried to increase the dpi using image magick, but it won't works. Please suggest alternate o...

graphics html resolution
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@michal.h21 Not really sure it is: the fact you can't increase DPI for a raster image is not TeX related
 
michal.h21
michal.h21
8:46 AM
@JosephWright it depends on method which he uses for image inclusion, in some cases, this depends on settings in tex4ht config files. he should add some more details
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@michal.h21 If the images are 96 DPI, nothing is going to generate more resolution: all he can do is print them smaller
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
9:38 AM
@FarZin floating figures are an integral part of the document, and readability concerns apply to the whole document not just to figures (by which here are meant inserts with graphics and text, not "digits") If a serif font is being used in the document as a whole (which is the overwhelmingly more common case) then I'd expect, where possible, to see the same font in figures. Can you give an online example to a document that switches to sans serif just for that context?
@FarZin Also figure captions (and sometimes labels) can involve mathematics, and maths usually looks pretty odd in sans serif.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
9:57 AM
@DavidCarlisle Funny: I wouldn't :-)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright would you expect to use sans serif in figures if the document was set in cmr or times?
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@DavidCarlisle Yes
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright chemists are weird
5
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@DavidCarlisle That's exactly what we do routinely in chemistry: figures are graphical elements, so have very little link to text
@DavidCarlisle In any case the font would be different (I draw my figures with one font, the publishers typeset the text with a different one)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright yes well if your figures are commutative diagrams with a few arrows and a math formula at each vertex, things are a bit different:-)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
10:00 AM
@DavidCarlisle I wonder what they do for grants: the rules for EPSRC say we have to use sans serif for everything (readability)
@DavidCarlisle Still graphical rather than textual
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright mathematicians and rules...
@JosephWright yes but sans serif math is horrible:-)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@DavidCarlisle Well yes, the rules also forbid justification but my senior colleagues all get away with it!
@DavidCarlisle I've tried both approaches in my docs. Older chemical literature do use serifs in graphics, more recent ones don't, and while the serifs are readable they still look 'wrong' to me
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright I hardly dare ask, but what era is "older chemical literature" ?
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@DavidCarlisle I'm thinking mainly pre-war, although some publishers still do this (mainly smaller ones who don't do a lot of chemistry)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright phew I had a horrible feeling you were going to say 1980's (Ie when I was publishing academic papers:-)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
10:06 AM
@DavidCarlisle Just checking my database of articles: you are safe in the 1980s! The first one going back I find using serifs in a 'good' journal is from the 1960s
 
Paul Gessler
Paul Gessler
10:19 AM
@DavidCarlisle this is quite an interesting discussion. In mechanical engineering, I was always taught that the fonts used in figures should match that of the text whenever possible. I had no idea that it differed by field.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
10:52 AM
@PaulGessler Interesting: I'd imagine them to be 'blueprint-like' and therefore using very different fonts!
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright A very common question is how to use tex fonts with matlab/mathematica/... precisely because people want to get figures set with those to use the document fonts. psfrag has the same rationale.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know :-) I guess to me that sort of figure 'feels' very different from say a chemistry diagram or a schematic of a piece of equipment.
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@JosephWright mathematics is a serious subject we don't have pictures of cats in our papers:-)
5
 
Paul Gessler
Paul Gessler
@JosephWright You are right on that, but only for engineering drawings, which are usually annexed because they are on full-page title blocks, etc.
But I've not used those in quite some time. Perhaps I'm becoming too academic. :D
 
 
3 hours later…
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
2:08 PM
@lhf I'm checking up on the best plan on your 'history' question in the mod-only chat
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
In the end of 80's I was publishing papers about ducks drawn with crayons. :)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@PauloCereda so, no change then?
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle Crayons are expensive nowadays, I have to go withTikZ. :)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@PauloCereda a mere numeric approximation to the analogue original.
 
Paulo Cereda
Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle ooh that sounds scientific. :)
 
tohecz
tohecz
2:27 PM
Nicola is around!
 
tohecz
tohecz
2:40 PM
I wouldn't ever expect a question to get such traffic! 
asked
1 year ago
viewed
111449 times
active
9 months ago
@DavidCarlisle However, some mathematicians have cats, and more importantly, bras :)
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
3:13 PM
@DavidCarlisle I can point to a few:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics.soc-ph/0506133.pdf
http://rtn.elektronika.lt/mi/0102/nature410063.pdf
http://jcm.asm.org/content/46/6/1946.full.pdf
http://www.sknkardiochirurgia.wum.edu.pl/syntax_nejm.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC230192/pdf/353365.pdf
I used random bio/chem related terms to find those.
And I was hard pressed to find one that didn't used sans serif within figure graphs, perhaps it's different with math journals
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
3:28 PM
I replied without realizing the conversation that was started on this.
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
3:38 PM
What style-guide do they use in the fields of math/phys/engineering?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FarZin yes thanks, see @JosephWright was defending your honour:-)
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
Indeed!
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FarZin floating figures were a rather rare occurrence actually but I don't recall ever seeing any suggestion that a font other than the document font be used (ie it just doesn't come up) that is also of course the default behaviour of the amsart and article classes. To be honest, while I believe your references I can't see any logic to the advice, floating figures is a typesetting ruse to help with page breaking, but I don't see why that affects font choice on readability grounds.
@FarZin I looked at your example arxiv.org/pdf/physics.soc-ph/0506133.pdf quite interesting, the "pictures of cats" ie coloured graphical elements in figures 1-3 used sans (although the \caption text was set in the serif body font) but Figure 4 (the kind of graph-plot figure that I'm more used to has labels and legend set in some serif font with math in serif italic as usual.
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
4:16 PM
@DavidCarlisle you're right about the graph-plot. I didn't scroll that far down (tl;dr).
related: http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/65293/style-question-serif-or-sans-fonts-in-figure-and-chart-text

Look at Fig 1 in http://jcm.asm.org/content/46/6/1946.full.pdf The text in that figure is quite small. wouldn't you think it'd be less legible with a serif font?

If serifs do improve readability/legibility wouldn't its only application be body text?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FarZin the text in the figure isn't any smaller than superscripts in math but I never see any argument that they be set in sans serif. It only works to change the fonts if the figures are obviously "external images" If the labels and text in the figure is basically the same as the notation used within the document it would seem odd to me to use a different font.
 
tohecz
tohecz
4:53 PM
@FarZin That article carries IMHO many typographic issues, but they are likely issues of the template
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
5:05 PM
@tohecz the abstract is in bold, the materials and methods section are in a smaller font. is that what you meant? If so, I agree that it looks off.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@FarZin small text in tables, uppercase titles, Times New Roman, to add another couple
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
@tohecz i see what you're saying about the title. that's not typical (i've seen it on a few occasions). What's wrong with Times New Roman? Perhaps the most familiar serif font.
 
tohecz
tohecz
@FarZin just like everything? It's one of the worst serif fonts, well accompanied by Arial -- one of the worst sans-serif fonts.
Just notice that the thin strokes are extremly thin and the thick one are quite thick: in small print the thin ones almost disappear
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
5:29 PM
@FarZin Designed for a particular use case, often used in entirely the opposite situations :-)
 
tohecz
tohecz
@JosephWright sounds like the Comic Sance Sans problem :)
 
Dennis
Dennis
5:53 PM
Can anyone tell me what's going on here?
^^Pproperties that individuate the places of the structure whose identity criterion is (IL)--- since these properties will not be definable in the language of the structure ---and we won't be able to in...

/Users/Dennis/Documents/Dennis Papers/Area Exam/Area Exam Writings/TSWLatexianTemp_004769.tex:724: Package inputenc Error: Keyboard character used is undefined
(inputenc) in inputencoding `utf8'.

See the inputenc package documentation for explanation.
automorphisms won't preserve the ordering properties that individuate the places of the structure whose identity criterion is (IL)--- since these properties will not be definable in the language of the structure ---and we won't be able to individuate the places of this structure.
that's the relevant bit of text. I can't figure out for the life of me what's causing any input encoding errors
huh, it was weird. There was some sort of invisible character before the first "p" in "ordering properties"
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
Did you copy/paste that into your editor from somewhere else or did you type it directly into the source code? Retype the relevant line. One time I pasted a ligature character into my LaTeX source without realizing it.
ah, ok,
 
Dennis
Dennis
yea i must have pasted something from somewher
somewhere
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
those kind of things happen when you copy/paste
 
Dennis
Dennis
not sure what it was though, kinda bizarre
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
I had trouble removing formatting once too. haven't figured out a way to remove it without retyping
Not bizarre, similar thing has happened to me. it happened to me with hyphenation too.
 
Dennis
Dennis
6:00 PM
It didn't produce any error in the output, just triggered an error flag, so that's nice I guess.
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
I would've thought in an ASCII, you wouldn't have these issues.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
6:39 PM
@PauloCereda Note use of logo :-)
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
@tohecz @JosephWright Times (New) Roman is recommended by the APA 6 Publication Manual for transcripts and they use it for published work in their own journal, Journal of Educational Psychology. Because of its familiarity, a reader might find it more readable. He/she might also find it easier to approximate the number of characters in a page.

@tohecz I'm not an expert in typography, and you might know more about this than me: if you removed the thick strokes from Times New Roman, wouldn't the characters look horizontally squeezed? If the thick strokes do help it remain compact without mak…
 
 
2 hours later…
tohecz
tohecz
8:35 PM
@FarZin why to go too far: Computer Modern is pretty narrow. And TNR is the APA's font probably because they typeset produce their journals in something like Word 95
 
egreg
egreg
8:56 PM
@FarZin Times New Roman is not particularly good in legibility. It is a result of a compromise considering legibiliity, the need of a narrow typeface and hot metal type technology. The thick strokes are needed for making the reader to recognize the glyphs. The font was created for narrow column typesetting, not for wide columns and, indeed, Times shows its weakness when used with a wide line length
 
Poli Tolstov
Poli Tolstov
9:51 PM
Hello...i'm having trouble on typesetting hyperbolic secant on Winedt
 
kan
kan
10:02 PM
Spam! ^
 
egreg
egreg
Got my third yearling badge. :)
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@egreg 'bout time you got a deserved badge:-)
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@kan For some reason that message got flagged!
 
Seth
Seth
not the message people!
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@kan Anyway, spam dealt with
 
egreg
egreg
10:10 PM
@JosephWright It referred to a message starting with caca pupu. ;-)
I won't reveal what it means in children's speak in Italy.
 
Frank Mittelbach
Frank Mittelbach
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle, guys have some work for you :-)
 
Seth
Seth
@JosephWright Happens a lot actually. I once got chat banned because people flagged my message reporting spam on the main site.
 
Joseph Wright
Joseph Wright
@FrankMittelbach Yes, saw that
@FrankMittelbach Tomorrow!
@Seth Ooops
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FrankMittelbach ah I got mail:-)
 
Seth
Seth
I know lol.
 
Frank Mittelbach
Frank Mittelbach
10:11 PM
@JosephWright take your time ... it is just that somebody else need to check what I did, else it doesn't make sense to continue
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
10:33 PM
@FrankMittelbach hmm some days it's obvious that cygwin isn't linux and isn't windows:-)
 
Frank Mittelbach
Frank Mittelbach
10:43 PM
guess I'm asleep already
@DavidCarlisle why would you try using cygwin here with bat files?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FrankMittelbach yes I pushed it through a bit further may look later. basically just need to be careful about \ or / in paths but too tired to sort ot out now (and you just posted same;-)
@FrankMittelbach the only tex I have on this machine:-)
 
Frank Mittelbach
Frank Mittelbach
@DavidCarlisle the only tex you have is on cygwin?
machine so old that you can't affort putting TL on it?
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FrankMittelbach yep
 
Frank Mittelbach
Frank Mittelbach
hmm :-9
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FrankMittelbach It is TL 2013 but the cygwin implementation (not teh tex that came with cygwin)
 
Frank Mittelbach
Frank Mittelbach
10:47 PM
ok enough for today .. still a book to finish
 
David Carlisle
David Carlisle
@FrankMittelbach night
 
Frank Mittelbach
Frank Mittelbach
ditto
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
11:06 PM
@egreg I agree completely. In fact I was arguing that it is a worthy compromise especially since I don't like to use too much paper and I use a two-column layout.

@tohecz 'too far'? I get it :D. I'm surprised you think CMU Serif is a narrow font. Try converting your documents to Times New Roman (If you dare) to see how many pages you save (especially in long documents).
 
egreg
egreg
@FarZin Probably he meant that the strokes of CM are thin.
 
Far Zin
Far Zin
ok
 

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