Ask Different Chat

@stuffe Think of it in context of the Japanese Language. And entering it on a TEN BUTTON phone dialpad.

It all makes sense ;) Crazy japs

I guess it's 12 actually. But yeah.

it's called ten key in the iOS keyboard list

What next, sleepy vomit?

Cheeky phlegm?

laters guys, off to sleep off my minus score for the day :(

12:16 AM

Don't be too hurt. Bounties make the world go round.

2

@daviesgeek Says you. :P

1:30 AM

Uhhhhm... Ruh roh.

@JasonSalaz That doesn't look good.

What'd you do?

No kidding. And I have no idea. (In that order!)

Well the good news is that that's one that Permissions Repair should fix.

Oh wait, I read that screenshot wrong.

Thought is said "permissions error". Damn these aging eyes.

Seeing several reports of similar problems with recent dates out there.

I see one report (not so recent--last april) that the problem was solved by reinstalling lion--but it looks like you're using Snow or earlier

eh? Nope. Lion here.

1:42 AM

You should be running an Accounts pane, not a Users and Groups pane

Unless it's just an error in the error message

Or is this a server error?

I think you have it backwards.

I think it was Accounts in Snow Leopard, and USers and Groups in Lion

Interesting. You're right in terms of the Preferences GUI, but when I go to the system library, there's an accounts pane, but not a users and groups.

Do you mean "Accounts.prefpane"?

Yes

that's just a filename.

1:44 AM

Gotcha. But it should match the pane for clarity.

Anyhow, no worries.

I found this: I had this issue and deleted both guest accounts using dscl. Works now.
sudo dscl . delete /Users/Guest
sudo dscl . delete /Users/Guest1

And I found folks who chose to reinstall lion. (That doesn't delete your user accounts--I had to do it on my own machine to get the restoration partition installed when I replaced/cloned the hard drive.

discussions.apple.com/thread/3206277?start=15&tstart=0

I wonder if my plist splunking burned me.

(That's the pointer to the tip about deleting guest accounts)

Have a backup? You could always try restoring a plist.

Here's another "suggestion"--can't vouch for it but if you don't trash the original it shouldn't hurt: Try this (no absolute promise that it will work):
- Go to your home folder
- Open the "Preferences" folder
- Look for a ".plis" file named "com.apple.systempreferences.plist"
- Drag it to the desktop
- Reboot
- Try accessing your preferences again. Any better?

Perhaps I should ask this on the site for rep purposes

I'll do that after we figure it out and let you get in on it ;).

;)

I just want your problem to be fixed. We can reap the rewards later.

But based on the level of FUD I'm reading in the "other forums"—Apple, MacFixit, etc—a canonical answer would be a good thing.

God #$^(*$# this freaking Sketch Manager

Hmm, I think I have the non-MAS version of Growl still too.

Are you on 10.7.3, @jaberg?

2:01 AM

Yes

could you upload your com.apple.systempreferences.plist ? GitHub gist or pastebin or something.

I'll put it in my dropbox. Give me a minute

Or that

Just to be clear, that's from ~/Library on my main user account.

right

2:08 AM

Let me know when you have it.

I have it, thanks

@jaberg Wonder if it'll be changed in Mountain Lion, what with their getting rid of cruft and all...

diff -ruN <(plutil -convert xml1 -o - Library/Preferences/com.apple.systempreferences.plist) <(plutil -convert xml1 -o - Downloads/com.apple.systempreferences.plist)

but it doesn't work, they're TOTALLY different :/.

@TimothyMuellerHarder I doubt "cruft" includes the users and groups preference pane.

@jaberg But the discrepancy between names is the sort of thing they're doing a lot of fixing of.

2:13 AM

@jaberg Your systempreferences file is HUGE compared to mine!

@TimothyMuellerHarder Ah! I see. Maybe. It would be nice because as a bumbling amateur, I find it helpful when files have the same names as the stuff they contain.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

@JasonSalaz I hear that all the time.

-	<key>com.apple.preferences.accounts.outline.groupparent</key>
-	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.preferences.accounts.outline.usersparent</key>
 	<true/>

- at start of line = exists in mine, but not @jaberg's
nothing at start of line = identical

...do I dare follow that hunch?

Make copies.

2:15 AM

kind of a moot point now if it's corrupted.

if I'm just going to blow it away

Personally, I'd just remove the plist and let the system rebuild it.

yeah, I guess so.

Tally ho...

We still don't know that that's the problem.

Better safe than sorry. Zip up a copy--takes only right click--then blow it away.

Or zip it and edit the original to your hearts content.

oh god

OH MY GOD

com.yourcompany.FlashMediaLiveEncoder.plist

GO AWAY ADOBE. You huge bag of fail.

I knew we could find someone to pin the blame on!

2:17 AM

I'm not saying they're at fault.

Just... ugh.

I know. But I'm happy to heap it on Adobe without valid provocation.

:D!

I'M FREAKING AWESOME.

nuking the group parent thinger worked.

Dear Adobe. Thanks for PostScript. Thanks for Photoshop 7. Thanks for PDF. Now please go away.

6

Coolio

I have no idea what you did, but I'm proud of you anyway.

6 mins ago, by Jason Salaz

-	<key>com.apple.preferences.accounts.outline.groupparent</key>
-	<true/>
 	<key>com.apple.preferences.accounts.outline.usersparent</key>
 	<true/>

I deleted the lines with a - leading them.

What do those lines signify. What lead you to those lines?

(I am not much of a plist spelunker)

2:22 AM

well

com.apple.preferences.accounts.* should be obvious

and that output was in the diff between your and my plist.

Got that

Gotcha

why it's so god awful is beyond me, but I'm happy with the fix (... for now :P.)

Let's hope it stays fixed!

indeed

Now I just need to figure out how to tell Sketch Manager to F' OFF

What is Sketch manager?

2:24 AM

which consequently is why I was trying to get into Users & Groups. (Login items)

Ah

it's wacom software for interacting with their Inkling.

Gotcha.

/unrelated
Any recommendations for Growl themes?

mono

2:26 AM

I use nano myself

christopherlobay.com

the pictures don't do it justice. They're all animated and fancy too.

I have iTunes (via Last.FM) track notices hooked up to the 'Music Video' style. Pretty nice, shows a ton of information as a result.

@JasonSalaz Like this? ryancollins.me/?p=92

Sexy. But I like my notifications to be low key

Similar, yes. More of a swoosh and not a rotate-wobble.

@JasonSalaz Gotcha. I'll check it out.

2:28 AM

That web page is freaking slick though, holy wow.

@jaberg Yeah, I tried Nano for a while, but it can't show more than one at once, which is necessary for my purposes.

@JasonSalaz True that.

Wow, check out his latest post too. ryancollins.me/?p=993

@JasonSalaz Found it here: growl.info/styles.php

@JasonSalaz :O

YEAH

Going "mobile" Back at you in a minute

2:30 AM

holy wow is right...

can't wrap my head around that it's CSS.

jeez.

ryancollins.me/?p=589

oh my god...

AND YOU CAN EVEN CLICK QUICKLY. WOW.

Unreal.

This man is GENIUS.

Holy GAZEBO.

Ooh! ryancollins.me/?p=363

@JasonSalaz and no Flash required. (Ran beautifully on this iPad)

@jaberg Well yeah, it's CSS.

We're dealing with a CSS god here.

I understood that.

I was riffing on the exchange @JasonSalaz and I had a few minutes ago.

2:35 AM

I wonder if he works for Netflix, or if they just "lifted" his idea. theat.me

@jaberg Ah, sorry.

@JasonSalaz ooh pretty :D

That's Mr. Collins' site too, apparently.

Hm. My only gripe is you can't use the browser forward/back because the movies open in the same page—even though they change the URL. :/

@JasonSalaz Yeah. theat.me/about

Off to bed. 'Night.

night

Probably time for me to take some downtime too. Catch ya later.

2:48 AM

2

Caption: "It didn't work."

/me facepalms

Daniel

3:23 AM

I made it through the Fat Tuesday without eating any Pączki. I think that's a first in quite a few years.

Daniel

3:33 AM

Pączki

Pączki (Polish ) are pastries traditional to Polish cuisine (the word pączek is sometimes translated as doughnut). Pączki is the plural form of the Polish word pączek , though many English speakers use paczki as singular and paczkis as plural. In English, the common pronunciation imitates the Polish pronunciation, but some speakers pronounce the word or . The Polish word "pączek" itself is a diminutive of pąk ("plant bud"). Typical pączki A pączek is a deep-fried piece of dough shaped into a flattened sphere and filled with confiture or other sweet filling. Pączki are usually covered ...

Mmmm, doughnuts!

4:01 AM

Never heard of 'em.

Daniel

4:13 AM

You must not be Polish (or live in an area with a large Polish population)

both of those are indeed not true

errr

true and then not true, actually

Kyle Cronin

8:48 AM

there is a significant opportunity Stack Exchange has to capitalize on this: techcrunch.com/2012/02/21/…

10:40 AM

I didn't even understand what it was trying to say. Probably why I don't use Quora.

11:53 AM

Should I mark this:

12:35 PM

@Gigili If you're running a server, yes. If you're on the road and plan to access the computer sitting on your desk, yes. If you run a lot of untended automated processes (for example, a script that backs up files every night as you sleep), yes—especially if they're mission critical. (check the logs every morning, because a freeze/restart will leave those jobs in an unknown state.) For an ordinary user computer—maybe not. I prefer to make those (rare) restart decisions myself.

@jaberg But what you can do when your Mac freezes other than restart?

1:00 PM

Anyone has an idea of Voice commander or text to speech?

I am making video tutorial using iMovie and record Screen using Quicktime,Now I want change voice accent or I'd put text in video using preview tool and want to use that text to speech?

@Gigili If the Mac completely freezes up, not much. If it gets really, really slow, you can kill off individual processes. I don't know enough about how that Preferences setting defines "freeze" and I'd rather make the call myself.. if I'm away from the computer, I won't learn anything (without digging into log files) about what have caused the freeze if the Mac restarts itself. Personal preference.

@Rock You'd be better off posting a Question on the site (after searching to see if there's an answer already) but…

What to search? I found this

you can create an Automator action that will produce an audio file from a text file using text to speech, then add that audio file to your movie in iPhoto or (some versions of) QuickTime. I don't remember if QuickTime X allows you to add the sound file. The old QuickTime pro did. Not at my Mac, no easy way for me to check.

Where Automator action? In iMovie?

Try Automator examples. Automator is included with OS X.

But I meant search the Ask Different site.

1:17 PM

@jaberg Very true, thank you.

How to slow down the speed of voice over?

I got it, thanks.

1:34 PM

You're both welcome. And now I need coffee. ;)

Remember guys, the chat room isn;t a place for live support, it's for chat, and the occasional discusion of questions that would be off topic for the main site...

Yes dad.

:P

2:19 PM

Don't worry about it, I know you're just being "stuffe" because you had such a negative experience yesterday. ;)

(Yeah, it took ne that long to come up with that. Coffee not quite kicking in yet. I need Cuban. (Coffee, sandwich, cigar or maiden. I don't really care which).

What happened?

Anyone has an idea of if I want delay in audio file iMovie maker?

Put your cigar in the sandwich and eat it with the coffee.

:O Me :P?

@Rock "You should ask your questions on the man site", said @stuffe angrily.

He wasn't angry.

;)

2:28 PM

He was.

Question already asked on the site, if I asked it will be closed by mods declaring as an duplicate.

Don't fight, ask him directly whether He was angry or not ;)

Yes it would be.

We're not fighting. At least I'm not.

Me neither.

Nor me :)

Good morning @bmike

2:40 PM

@stuffe I played with quota a bit, but now the emails are about as useful to me as linked in emails. (what's the word for a social media service that has a glimmer of I might want to keep it, but generally a UGH and sigh and why did I sign up for this in the first place?)

@jaberg It is a good morning :-) We've lots of fresh snow in the north land today

@bmike I think the word you're looking for is social media service. ;)

My sidewalk is till clear from yesterdays shovel adventure.

@Gigili I'll chime in - any time you tell the computer to "automatically do something" - you increase the chance that something will pop up that the computer thinks is X, but really isn't and then that automatic thing that sounded good - well, it interrupts something when you didn't want it or didn't expect it.

@bmike What he said @Gigili

In this case, the "watchdog" process is quite reliable (historically) so the risk of having false positives is lower than most - it's something I use on macs where I don't sit at them and work. I have a mac mini that sits and records local radio stations with a USB "radio shark" connected and it's set to reboot, other than that - I disable it like @jaberg said - for the exact reasons.

I'm more interested in why my mac has just frozen and not so in a rush to reboot and see if it happens yet again.

@bmike You're right, but you have to restart it when it freezes. Restarting will make the reason go away or what?

2:46 PM

@Gigili It might eliminate information or make discovering why more of a forensic process.

@Gigili It depends. I often have ssh sessions open and depending on what has hung the mac, can kill the process that is causing processes surgically. A reboot is a broad hammer - kind of like proscribing the general antibiotic rather than running a culture and determining exactly what bug you've got and narrowly attacking that.

Crashlogs are useful, but a lot of my troubleshooting is done intuitively. I need to see what's going on. (That's one reason I suck at giving phone support.)

In most cases - you are totally correct - the freeze that triggers an automatic reboot isn't amenable to surgery ;-)

Makes perfect sense. =)

I also wouldn't want to establish the possibility of a freeze-restart endless loop being triggered unnecessarily

I would sum it up by saying If I don't need the mac to restart right away (so it can go about its business), there is no need to automate the restart.

On the other hand, it could eliminate line one from the IT Crowd support script, Have you tried turning it off then turning it back on again?

2:55 PM

Not yet, I'm a bit cautious.

As it happened a lot recently, I wanted to make sure if it's necessary.

ARRRGHHHHHH!!!!! GRRR!!

Ooh, that feels much better

Carry on ;)

What is going on btw?

Going on? Specifically?

2 mins ago, by stuffe

Carry on ;)

Oh, right. Don't mind me. Just saying I've done venting my primal anger, and you can get back to talking about fruitputers :)

3:07 PM

:D Fruitputers.

A: Facetime: internet or cellular connection?

2

Facetime will only work over an internet connection. You will need to jailbreak your device to enable Facetime over 3G as of iOS 5. Here's an extract from the official documentation: With FaceTime, you can participate in video calls with another iPhone 4 or later, iPad 2, iPod touch (4th ge...

@GraemeHutchison I don't get your edit? Facetime over Wi-Fi is also via 'internet'.

Your edit makes it seem as if Facetime would work over any Internet connection - which is not true.

Internet is internet is internet, it's the types of internet connection he is asking after - I have since edited the question

His edit read OK to me

I think not. The question is about the type of connectivity. This information was removed with the edit.

Hmm, I think it is debatable what the OP meant, but his question doesn't make sense without editing.

internet or cellular? Cellular is a connection mechanism, internet is a protocol.

3:22 PM

You can connect to the internet via 3G.

If you take it to mean do I need to use an internet connection, or can I just use the phone line, then it might make sense, but that would be a dumb question, and the "internet or cellular" makes it look as though he is equating internet to WIFI

@gentmatt Where is anyone disputing this?

Internet over cellular makes sense, but nor or

I don't understand how my answer was edited. I want to rollback.

@stuffe See further up in the chat.

You're correct, the edit to the answer is confusing.

But your post here in chat pointed us to the Question, not the answer.

I can roll it back for you if you want, but the edit helps if you ask me, it just clarifues your answer

@jaberg When I click the link, I am redirected to my answer.

3:26 PM

Original q: Internet or cellular. Your original answer: No, you need to jailbreak your device to enable Facetime over 3G as of iOS 5.

Aha! I think I know what's happening....

I want to rollback MY answer, but @stuffle thinks that I want to rollback his edit of the question, right?

No

:(

If you roll back your answer, then it makes more sense after my question edit.

Sorry, I thought i got pointed to the question, No matter. I disagree with @Stuffe on this one. The first line of the answer isn't correct.

3:27 PM

Ok, I'll do it now. End of discussion :)

Or rather I agree, as we're not talking over each other. ;)

If it had the original title as above in chat, your answer didn;t make sense before the edit, as it was answering a "can I do cellular or internet" with "no", in essence

Sorry for my part in the confusion.

That's fine. I guess this is sorted now.

If / when you're all sorted - I've a new topic...

3:29 PM

That's better now. Think we all cross talked a bit.

(This is just proof positive that humans can't really multi-task. I should close this chat window when I'm trying to get work done.)

@stuffe Yeah, the original question was wrong in the sense that it made the assumption: Wi-Fi = Internet

@bmike I'm listening!

Or reading...

You have my full attention @bmike.

Q: What are hidden gestures in Lion?

I wanted to use a nice question to discuss CW

3

Safari allows to go back to a previous website using the two finger swipe gesture. I was looking for something similar to do in Finder. During my research, I stumbled upon this: ⌥+ three-finger-swipe to go back/forward in finder This feature is not documented anywhere I looked. So, I'...

I saw that.

I thought if it was expanded to gestures as a whole, it would be a good CW

Q: How Many Genius Mixes Are There in iTunes?

3:31 PM

I'm not sure how it will play out, but my initial thoughts are we need someone to take a stab at making some order to an answer and mark that answer CW (if needed)

Kind of like I did at this question...

13

Every so often I'll add a couple hundred new songs to my iTunes and discover a new mix has been created. It makes me wonder then, exactly how many mixes are there, what genres are they, etc. Here's a photo, in case you're unsure what I'm talking about.

itunes

I imagine there are only a c few hidden ones in Lion, especially as it implictely excludes safari/iTunes and apps (or could be read that way)

I'm going to stick away from it since I'm not clear what / how it should be answered.

Sections for Finder, safari, iPhoto?

I imagine there are only a c few hidden ones in Lion, especially as it implictely excludes safari/iTunes and apps (or could be read that way)

Is it Lion apps that ship with Lion?

Is it Apple apps, paid and included and free?

I think for it to be useful, it might need some editing - but I'm intrigued if it will fly and be maintainable - useful.

Also - I can't get the described finder gesture to work at all, so I'm struggling with the premise - does the finder alt / three finger swipe left/right work for others as described?

My question was about any 'Lion' apps. I agree that this is a vague.

3:34 PM

It is actually tricky because there are people (me) with Lion on a Macbook that only has 2 finger multitouch.

So, applications shipped with lion would be a better description.

@gentmatt I've found that being as narrow as you can for a CW like question is good. Since they always invite so much attention, I like to really craft them carefully before posting and nurture them in chat, get a few people to keep their eye on it / edit the question into shape if needed and comments / confusion arise.

So it needs to be broad in it's App list, and clear in what hardware you can expect the gestures to work on. Not everyone knows the internal gubbins of there trackpad, and might complain if a 4 finger swipe will never work on their macbook, even though it has Lion on.

-> What are 'hidden' multitouch gestures in apps shipped with OSX Lion? <-

The pre-requisites for the gestures aren't purely software (Lion), is what I am trying to say

3:37 PM

@gentmatt It's totally up to you. If you want to call for a roll call, that might be more subjective and likely to get close votes. If you are discussion Lion and iLife narrowly (which ship with all new macs) it might fly better. Who knows - the chosen answer might be Lion. Another answer could be iLife and a third answer could be various 3PP products.

@stuffe I understand - which is why I'd edit the question to say 'multitouch' gestures.

the answers get more latitude to stray, but the question might want to be tightened up - this is just my personal experience speaking - not diamond bmike, with his moderator hat on.

I would consider something along the lines of "What multitouch gesture with the appropriate hardware in Lion has made you smile or caught you off guard" ;)

@bmike Rollback? I don't see that anybody has edited the question yet?

@stuffe multitouch is a good modifier because without it, I can describe a gesture I've made toward certain uncooperative hardware…

3:40 PM

But seriously "What multitouch gestures in Lion do you find useful" is broader, but maybe also better targetted

Well, I'm open to edits. Feel free to make suggestions. It's best if we can edit the question so that everyone can profit more of it in the long term.

They don't have to be "hidden", that implies that everyone knows the published ones in the first place, there will be a lot of people that don't know about something that it relatively common and not hidden, just new to them.

And yes, I was smiling, in Spider Jerusalem sort of way, when I made the gesture.

case in point, Expose swipe (3fingers down) is not enabled by default, and a lot of people might not know it;s there, but I love it. Or 3 finger drag. But it's not "hidden" to us in the traditional, sense, just hidden through ignorance and apple choice of defaults

Grrr

(That was way harder than it should have been, where's my coffee maiden?)

3:43 PM

@stuffe Really? I would not want to remove the word 'hidden' from the question. But if you're right..... What should the edited question be like?

I think the hidden makes the scope far too small.

My my opinion of course.

"Which multitouch gesture in Lion caught you off guard or made you smile." Then briefly explain multitouch. i.e. Lion introduced multitouch gestures, gestures that…

I would say that it's the OS that enabled the multitouch functionality, both it it's own built in apps like iTunes and Safari, but also to 3rd party apps. They aren;t Lion multitouch gestures as such, more getures available if you have Lion as a pre-req

@gentmatt What if the question had a screen shot of the standard multitouch gesture panel and served to document what was standard - out of the box configuration.

Point taken @Stuffe

3:46 PM

I would probably ask "What gestures in Lion have you found useful or unexpected"

It might worth mention too, by way of a parenthetical reference, that people stuck with an older MB trackpad can use multitouch gestures by adding a Magic Trackpad to their setup.

And then in the question, expand on hidden ones, ones that not set as default, ones in the OS and ones in apps, including unusual of particularly clever ones in 3rd party apps.

Then it could go into the things you can enable system wide from the panel, and ask for shortcuts that are discovered (hidden) that are not shown in the panel, but now known due to people reporting them or finding them elsewhere (individual KB article from apple, help from that app, other questions here and elsewhere, other blog articles)

@jaberg please, just no

(I don't travel with the MTP, and it makes me crazy when I'm futilely swiping the trackpad.)

@bmike Ok.

3:47 PM

Christ my typing is bad today.

Hi, is there a simple way to form an address book group from within Mail? (i.e. if I select a group of messages from different senders, can I make an alias for that group in address book automatically?

Hey Alan

Someone asked this just last week.

There was an applescript answer that did it (I think)

@bmike Would you like to edit the question? It seems like you have a good idea.

I know I asked the tiny things that make you smile question on Lion, but that was something I crafted and there were rafts of big changes so I wanted to be really narrow.

@gentmatt I'd rather not have diamonds editing it unless needed.

Why not take a crack - I like your wording - no need to change hidden or anything - just wanted to see what you really wanted out of it.

explaining what you tried, what you know, and then frame the question.

Ok, I can try to edit it and then re-discuss it. But I got <10% battery charge and have to leave Starbucks in a few minutes.

3:50 PM

I'll gladly insert the graphics of the trackpad, and edit in the @jaberg suggestion if he doesn't clarify that multitouch is limited to newer unibody mac portables.

@gentmatt No rush at all - this can happen tonight, later - just wanted to open up a discussion on it.

@AlanMunn apple.stackexchange.com/questions/39271/… - this is 2/3rds of what you want

If you need more, raise a question and reference that answer as being close.

@AlanMunn That would be an awesome question to ask on the main site. I'll watch for your question and link to the other one if needed.

It creates a mail to the selection of users, you want it to create an address book group instead, but the hard part is parsing the users out of the selection, which the answer to this question does

@gentmatt Now that I've explained - would you still like me to take a crack at editing? I'm happy to do so knowing you're limited on time.

@bmike Feel free to edit!

3:53 PM

Is there a consensus on the hidden thing before anyone changes it?

@bmike Ok, I'll ask it then. I just assumed there was something obvious I was missing. I'm gradually switching over from Eudora, and continually finding simple things hard with Mail.

@stuffe I'd like to have the words 'hidden' and 'multitouch' in the question.

@bmike Multi-touch works great on older portables so long as you have a Magic Trackpad connected via Bluetooth. It's when I leave the trackpad at home that I have trouble. More difficult habit to break than scroll direction. The gestures are really imbedded as muscle memory and your only feedback is isn't working.

Multi touch yes, I agree

@stuffe Thanks, I'll take a look at that and see if I can do the other 1/3. It's sad that Applescript should be required for such an obvious function.

3:55 PM

Hidden is vague. Is it hidden if it's in preferences? Do you really mean undocumented? etc

I guess I don't understand the importance of hidden because they're all unknown until someone learns them, but it's @gentmatt's question, so I defer.

mmMMMMHHHH...

@AlanMunn It's true in the case of many of the built in apps that you get with the Mac OS operating system, that they are "good enough" for most people. They never intended iCal of Mail to be best in breed, just pretty damn good for a free bundled app. The Mac developer ecosystem exists to cater for anyone that wants to go beyond.

What are (un-)documented multitouch gestures implemented in Lion?

@stuffe I'm just spoiled with Eudora, but with the demise of Rosetta, I won't be able to use it when I switch to Lion.

3:57 PM

The documentation brings it's own problems. Many people will consider the multitouch control panel to be the source of "documentation", as it were, but it doesn;t cater for safari page swipes and so on.

@stuffe Yes - it's vague, and I will make sure I edit in clarity, but keeping hidden is a tag on the site and to many, many mac users - it is something very useful. I have worked front line consumer support for Macs and to many, many - there is a large correlation between people seeking to learn and them using the word hidden.

@AlanMunn I know what you mean, but you have to sit back and think you are comparing a paid for product (even though it's old) against a freebie bundle.

I'd also concur that the Preferences pane is unknown to 80%+ of Mac Users, so in effect even the documented features are hidden.

@AlanMunn +10 for Eudora and Steve Dorner