Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya

El'endia Starman

8:03 PM

@goldPseudo Thank you very much! :D

@goldPseudo Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just a (chat) mod thing.

Al Ummat

0

Q: Is it acceptable to accept the word of someone who is not infallible? (Shia View)

When the eleventh Imam of the Shia (Al Hassan Al 'Askari) died, and he did not leave any son. But a man called Uthman Bin Sa'id, claimed that the eleventh Imam did have a son, and he disappeared when he was the age of four. If I am not mistaken, Shia only accept the word of someone who is infal...

open to edits

:)

just a question to get our shia members more involved

Insha'Allah

Al Ummat

8:33 PM

@TRiG you can check the above discussions between us and Caleb

TRiG

@AlUmmat I can, yes. Do I want to?

Al Ummat

@TRiG just saying, you can do what you wish :)

TRiG

@AlUmmat How far back would I have to go to get to the beginning of it?

Al Ummat

one moment

TRiG

I did read a little, but I seemed to be starting in the middle, so I gave up.

Al Ummat

8:37 PM

@TRiG if I am not mistaken, the discussion started form here chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/3819?m=8008694#8008694

@goldPseudo do you remember this chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/3819/conversation/i-am-muslim :P

also, just a reminder to all, the site evaluation will be ending in about 6 hours

TRiG

@AlUmmat I recall having a similar debate in comments on this site, once. I made the remark that the comments were getting increasingly off topic and would likely be deleted, and hey-presto, they were.

yesterday, by Ali

are you Muslim?

Aarthi

Hello, everyone :)

Al Ummat

@Aarthi hello

how are you doing?

Aarthi

@AlUmmat I am well, thank you. How are you?

:)

Al Ummat

good thank you :)

Aarthi

8:48 PM

Excellent!

I'm just popping in to ask a quick question: @AlUmmat did you ever get my email to you?

Al Ummat

@Aarthi let me go check, one moment

TRiG

And two seconds later, straight into theological debate. There's no attempt to personalise it, or to get to know @Caleb's position, beliefs, character, likes and dislikes, or anything else which might help. @Ali was going to debate, whatever @Caleb wanted, and was going to supply both sides of the script.

El'endia Starman

@Aarthi When did this place become a party room? :P

TRiG

Where @Caleb went off @Ali's suggested script, he was ignored.

The person who tried to debate me was similarly clueless.

Aarthi

@El'endiaStarman :P Just stopping by to say hello.

Al Ummat

8:51 PM

@Aarthi sorry I don't see your email

Aarthi

@AlUmmat hmm, that explains the lack of reply.

Al Ummat

what was the subject, perhaps I can search though mail?

Aarthi

how about this: could you email me aarthi@stackexchange.com and I will resend?

Al Ummat

@Aarthi ok

Aarthi

Thank you! :)

I should perhaps be more clear -- @AlUmmat I emailed you a couple of weeks ago.

Al Ummat

8:52 PM

@Aarthi oh wait now I see ;)

Aarthi

@AlUmmat ahh

Al Ummat

@Aarthi I replied

TRiG

@AlUmmat "The Trinity doesn't make sense" is not, in itself, a good argument against the Trinity. Plenty of things which don't make sense are, nonetheless, true. Quantum mechanics, for a start.

2

(No, quantum mechanics are not people who repair quantums, in case you were wondering.)

Aarthi

@AlUmmat excellent, thanks :)

That was all I needed -- I'll see you all on the site! :)

Al Ummat

@Aarthi ok

:)

@TRiG :P

@TRiG I know it doesn't make sense

TRiG

9:06 PM

@AlUmmat Joke stolen from Terry Pratchett. (All the best ones are.)

Al Ummat

@TRiG ok

TRiG

@AlUmmat Yes, of course it doesn't make sense, but so what?

Al Ummat

@TRiG what do you mean?

TRiG

Far more persuasive, and far more to the point, than "it doesn't make sense" is "there's no evidence to support it".

(And there isn't any evidence to support it, either in the Bible or out of it. But I say that as an atheist who was brought up as a non-Trinitarian Christian (a rare breed, that).)

Aarthi

@AlUmmat aaaand I just replied :)

TRiG

9:20 PM

@Ali I don't know what that is, but it's not poetry. It's just bad. And I'm not talking about the theology of it: it's just badly written (or translated, perhaps).

Theorem

@AlUmmat Hi

enlighten me with the knowledge of Islam @AlUmmat

Al Ummat

@Theorem I cannot enlighten anyone, only Allah/God can

Theorem

oh ok, i forgot that Allah is the only one who can enlighten . @AlUmmat

Al Ummat

@Theorem what about Islam confuses you?

Theorem

@According to quaran , mosque is not different than any other place for prayers right ? @AlUmmat

TRiG

9:27 PM

@Theorem In theory, there's no difference between theory and practise. In practise, there is.

Al Ummat

@Theorem according to Islam the whole earth is a Masjid except for grave yards and toilets, meaning you can pray every where ecpet in the mentioned places

Theorem

@AlUmmat : why not toilets and grave yards , because god should hear prayer from everywhere .

Al Ummat

@Theorem Prayer/Dua is different from Prayer/Salat

and you can make a Dua in your hearts

but salat involves also physical movements

Theorem

Oh ok , one who doesn't do salat is not muslim , is it ?

Al Ummat

@Theorem Salat is the thing that differentiates between a Muslims and non-Muslim, I can't say that a Muslim to does not make salat is right away non-Muslim, because one might of course forget, but if a Muslim leaves off the obligatory five time daily salat, there is punishment for it is one of the pillars of Islam

Theorem

9:32 PM

like what kind of punishment @AlUmmat

Al Ummat

@Theorem I do not at this moment know

perhaps someone else knows

but as far as I know the wrath of God is enough punishment for me

not doing the five daily salat, which is very simple, would be disobedience of God

Theorem

can a muslim girl marry a non muslim boy ? @AlUmmat

El'endia Starman

@AlUmmat These five daily salats must be done at their proper times, right? Is there any leeway, like if a Muslim student is in class for one or more of those times?

Theorem

@El'endiaStarman : if god is kind there should be a leeway

Al Ummat

@El'endiaStarman Yes, you can combine your prayers, combining prayers isn't just for travel, and there is proof supporting this in Sahih Muslim, so if you can combine your prayers if you wish, and when you are on travle, there is no question on whether you should combine or not

TRiG

9:39 PM

6

Q: Why are Muslim women prohibited from marrying non-Muslims while Muslim men are allowed to?

Muslim women are not allowed under any circumstances to get married to a non-Muslims including Christians and Jews (Ahlul Kitab). While Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women if they were Christians or Jews. Why the difference? God said in Quran: الْيَوْمَ أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ الطَّيِّب...

non-muslim marriage

El'endia Starman

@Theorem Honestly, I'm less concerned about how god should be and more concerned about what a particular religion (Islam) mandates.

Al Ummat

Islam is quite simple really

TRiG

@El'endiaStarman I have pu-lenty of opinions on what god should be like ....

Al Ummat

you can find most of what is in Islam, is in Judaism, the only difference is it is made more simpler in Islam

El'endia Starman

@AlUmmat Would you say Christianity is simpler or more complex than Islam? (Fair warning: this is kind of a trick question.)

@TRiG Oh yeah, I'm sure. PLENTY.

Theorem

9:42 PM

it makes u simpleton @AlUmmat

Al Ummat

@El'endiaStarman Christianity and Judaism gone to two extremes, Christianity gone to the spiritual extreme, and Judaism went to the too many laws and imposed on themselves hardship

Islam is the mideum, the moderate way between the two

Theorem

according to quaran there should be only one religion and thats Islam

and those who follow other religion will go to hell

Al Ummat

@Theorem it doesn't say that, it said God will not accept

another religion

and christianity and Judaism were both Islam originolly

all prophets brought the same message

TRiG

in The Library, Jan 19 at 18:38, by TRiG

I have quite strong opinions on the character(s) of g/God(s), actually.

@AlUmmat That's something of an oversimplification. There are many strands in both Judaism and Christianity.

Theorem

@AlUmmat : u are wrong there , christianity was older than islam

i mean is *

both came from Judaism

Al Ummat

9:46 PM

@TRiG Islam isn't over simplified, it is a moderate religion

actually way of life

El'endia Starman

@AlUmmat Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Muhammad born around 570 A.D.? How then can Islam predate Judaism and Christianity?

TRiG

@AlUmmat What? That's not what I said at all.

Al Ummat

@El'endiaStarman I said all Prophets preached the same message, that include Jesus and Moses

Theorem

@AlUmmat what do u mean by saying that islam is a way of life ?

Al Ummat

and Abraham

TRiG

9:46 PM

I said that your comment about Judaism and Christianity was an oversimplification.

Al Ummat

@Theorem just that

@TRiG oh, sorry, my bad

El'endia Starman

@AlUmmat Judaism's prophets are also Christianity's prophets. Yet we don't consider Christianity to be Judaism. Why then should we consider the older religions to be alterations of the newer religion?

Theorem

@AlUmmat : when did islam divert from Judaism ?

Al Ummat

@El'endiaStarman Christianity and Judaism are the modern words, how do you know that the Prophets themselves called it Christianity or Judaism?

If all the Prophets, every single one, preached the same message, then that Message was Islam

that is what we believe in Islam though

it may not be what you believe

El'endia Starman

@AlUmmat Off the top of my head, I can tell you that "Christian" is not a modern word because it's in Acts 11:26. There's probably something similar for Judaism.

Al Ummat

9:50 PM

@El'endiaStarman did the names we know today exist in the original language of the Bible?

TRiG

@AlUmmat The word Christian occurs in the Greek text. (So does the word Jew. I don't know when it was first used by the Jews themselves, but it was certainly before Jesus.)

El'endia Starman

@AlUmmat Yep! The Greek is "Christianos" (source).

TRiG

@AlUmmat And the English word Christian is derived from the Greek. So, yes, it's the same name,

Theorem

what is the difference between sunni and siya muslims ?

Al Ummat

@TRiG but is it the same meaning?

TRiG

9:52 PM

@El'endiaStarman Χριστιανούς.

Al Ummat

@Theorem please don't let me get into that

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Yeah. I just wrote the English version.

TRiG

@El'endiaStarman But the Greek looks cooler! ;)

Theorem

@AlUmmat : please , i don't know about it .

Caleb

@AlUmmat Yes. Follower of Christ. You could argue a lot of people calling themselves followers today are not, but that is a problem with the people using it, not the word itself. The usage of the word dates back to just a few years after Christ.

Al Ummat

9:56 PM

@Theorem I am not sunni nor shia though. The shia believe that the Imams are infallible, the sunni believe that only God is perfect and has control on every atom of the universe

that would be a major difference

also the sunni follow Quran and Sunnah

El'endia Starman

@Theorem The split started over a dispute with regards to leadership succession. Basically, it was Muhammad's father-in-law versus Muhammad's son-in-law. I don't really know the details beyond that.

TRiG

@El'endiaStarman And theologies then developed independently. Or at least semi-independently.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG ...yeah. I'll give you that. Also, cool fact: I can read Greek words correctly phonetically because I know the names of the letters from mathematics. :D

Theorem

@El'endiaStarman : yes , i think it was the problem in choosing the successor after Mahommads death . one group said that the one who is capable should continue and the other group said that the leader should be from the family line or the god himself should send .

TRiG

@El'endiaStarman And I know them from being quarter Greek Cypriot, and growing up using a Bible with footnotes.

Theorem

9:58 PM

@AlUmmat : What is Imam ?

Al Ummat

see this

6

Q: Where is the Origin of Shia and Sunni?

Can anyone tell me about the origin of the Shia and Sunni division? Why were two different groups of Muslims created? Allah didn't send us to live divided. No verse of Quran or Hadith suggest that as far as I know. Both of the groups are driven by great scholars. They know Quran and Hadith very...

quran hadith sunni shia-islam origin

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Well, Esther has the first instances of "Jew" in the traditional book ordering. Source.

TRiG

The Cyrillic alphabet, used for Russian, Ukrainian, and Bulgarian, is related to the Greek. I was in a train station in Sophia, and managed to roughly sound out a word on a sign on a door. It sounded a little similar to that same word in the Romance languages. So I worked out the meaning of a Bulgarian word. That door said "Transport Police". I was quite pleased with myself for that.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Very nice!

Caleb

@TRiG The Cyrillic alphabet is an unholy mish-mash of characters from Greek, Hebrew and the doodles on some guys fountain pen scratch pad.

TRiG

10:03 PM

@Caleb It has some seriously weird looking stuff in it, too. Like that thing that looks like a K giving birth to an X.

goldPseudo

@Caleb At least it's not Arabic. all you get is the doodles.

TRiG

Ж

El'endia Starman

@goldPseudo I've heard that Arabic is actually not bad. Like there's something logical about the way it's written. In contrast to English, which is just a big 'ol lump of "Hey, we can use that!" words stolen from other languages.

Al Ummat

@El'endiaStarman I don't quite understand what you mean by logical, but in Arabic, you can for example take a three lettered word, and change the around to make it mean something else, or you can change the punctuations to do the same, it isn't the same with all words though

goldPseudo

@El'endiaStarman Etymology in Arabic is wonderfully constructed; even with words I don't know, it's not too difficult to figure out what the root is and guess its actual meaning from context.

TRiG

10:09 PM

@goldPseudo Etymology in English is interesting. And varied.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG This is a good example of that.

goldPseudo

(modern Arabic does have borrowed words, but it's nowhere near the mishmash that English uses)

Reading Arabic on the other hand can be an exercise in patience if you're not fluent. Heavily depends on what writing script is used and whether or not there's vowels included.

TRiG

@El'endiaStarman Exactly what counts as "Arabic" is a bit contentious, though. The many countries which have Arabic as an official language actually speak rather different versions of it. There was a guy who said he spoke Moroccan, but learned Arabic in school. (Morocco has Moroccan Arabic, Standard Arabic, French, and I think five native African languages.)

goldPseudo

and some of the calligraphic styles, while beautiful, i suspect were not ever designed to actually be read.

El'endia Starman

Interesting. Very interesting.

Al Ummat

10:15 PM

@goldPseudo they can be read, maybe just by the calligrapher, it just depends on the calligraphy

TRiG

@goldPseudo Well, I find some of the fraktur typefaces pretty unreadable too.

Al Ummat

when I got to America, I could hardly read the Arabic calligraphy they had, because it was backwards :)

TRiG

@AlUmmat Really?!

Al Ummat

@TRiG yes, that which is supposed to be on the right is on the left

and on the top, on the bottom

and so on

TRiG

@AlUmmat Where was this? Hardly everywhere in America.

Al Ummat

10:17 PM

@TRiG no, I got some calligraphy from a friend from America, but I couldn't read it at firs, it took a while

it might not be all calligraphy in America

but where I am, it would seem calligraphy is backwards

is that latin?

@AlUmmat German.

oh

@AlUmmat No, Ger- arg, ninja'd. :P

TRiG

10:21 PM

> Victor jagt zwölf Boxkämpfer quer über den Sylter Deich

Would you know that was an S if you hadn't been told? I wouldn't.

El'endia Starman

...wow. I thought that was a G.

goldPseudo

it took me long enough to figure out that "V" was a "V". now you're telling me that "r" is an "x"?

TRiG

@goldPseudo Wow. I hadn't noticed that one.

goldPseudo

is that the German version of the quick brown fox, by any chance?

TRiG

@goldPseudo Yes.

> It means "Victor chases twelve boxers across the Sylt dike" and contains all 26 letters of the alphabet plus the umlauted glyphs used in German, making it an example of a pangram.

Fraktur

Fraktur is a calligraphic hand and any of several blackletter typefaces derived from this hand. The blackletter lines are broken up – that is, their forms contain many angles when compared to the smooth curves of the Antiqua (common) typefaces modeled after antique Roman square capitals and Carolingian minuscule. From this, Fraktur is sometimes contrasted with the "Latin alphabet" in northern European texts, being sometimes called the "German alphabet", despite simply being a typeface of Latin. Similarly, the term "Fraktur" or "Gothic" is sometimes applied to all of the blacklette...

El'endia Starman

10:24 PM

@goldPseudo I can't believe I didn't guess that.

TRiG

> أبجد هوَّز حُطّي كلَمُن سَعْفَص قُرِشَت ثَخَدٌ ضَظَغ‎

Arabic pangram, from Wikipedia. I have no idea what it means.

Al Ummat

nothing really

just contains all of the Abjad letters

meaning it contains all the Arabic letters

goldPseudo

oh, that's hilarious. google translates أبجد هوَّز as "Lorem Ipsum"

Al Ummat

the Hurouf Al Hija'yah also contains all the letters of Arabic

@goldPseudo :)

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Well, I just put it into Goo- ARG! Ninja'd again!

TRiG

10:30 PM

@goldPseudo That's awesome.

El'endia Starman

@goldPseudo Yeah, I found that quite funny too. :D

TRiG

> Laŭ Ludoviko Zamenhof bongustas freŝa ĉeĥa manĝaĵo kun spicoj.

> According to Ludwig Zamenhof, fresh Czech food with spices tastes good.

Tamer Shlash

11:26 PM

Assalamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh

Al Ummat

@TamerShlash Wa Alaikum salam wa Rahmatullah Wa Barakatuh

Tamer Shlash

@AlUmmat @goldPseudo I've noticed that Ahmadi's account is suspended for a long time, about 9 months from now (don't know when the suspension began), do you know why?!

goldPseudo

@TamerShlash that's the default length for a third suspension.

one week, then one month, then one year.

Tamer Shlash

Aha I see, what a... rule! :D

It's good to know that, I didn't mind being suspended before, now I should be careful :D

Especially in the presence of a strict moderator like you uncle @goldPseudo, almost every post has an answer that was deleted by you :D

goldPseudo

most of that is just because i'm the first flag-handler on the scene.

i try to avoid deleting posts myself unless they're blatantly off-topic or VLQ.

Tamer Shlash

11:33 PM

Moderation seems to be tiring ineed :\

goldPseudo

we're really just glorified janitors.

Tamer Shlash

But surely Allah rewards you for your effort so long as you seek to serve Islam :)

goldPseudo

God willing.

Tamer Shlash

On second thought, I'm sure Ahmadi created a new account and started participating again - not mentioning names -, but hopefully he has become more friendly :)

I really like answering his questions, but hate the subsequent discussions invoked thereafter

Far away from that, @AlUmmat I just wonder how old are you, brother :)

Al Ummat

@TamerShlash I rather not say, if that is ok

I don't really like people online knowing too much about me :)

Tamer Shlash

11:44 PM

Of course, it's up to you, sorry for deep intervention :)

Al Ummat

no worries :)

Tamer Shlash

But I just remembered that @goldPseudo is much older than me and I should call him uncle, and then thought whether I should call you the same.

goldPseudo

@TamerShlash If it makes you feel any better, I look a lot younger than I am. :)

Al Ummat

@TamerShlash you may call me brother, since we are all brothers in Islam

@goldPseudo it is a sign of respect to call someone uncle, in Syria we usually say Ammu عمو

goldPseudo

people mistake me for someone in my twenties all the time. and i actually got carded for a movie a couple years ago.

Al Ummat

11:47 PM

:)

Tamer Shlash

@goldPseudo Well I may call you uncle sometimes and miss it others, I just forget a lot :\

goldPseudo

@TamerShlash it's cool either way. i don't worry too much about formalities.

Tamer Shlash

"got carded for a movie a couple years ago." You mean was candidated as an actor?

goldPseudo

nope. i mean they asked for my ID because I needed to be older than 18 to watch the movie.

Tamer Shlash

Aha I see :D

@AlUmmat Do you know المليحة?

Al Ummat

11:52 PM

@TamerShlash yes, I gone out there once to see a house

but that was it

Tamer Shlash

I's become a battlefield now

Al Ummat

@TamerShlash Masha'Allah

If I am not mistaken المليحة is a place where upraising of الغوطة happened in

Tamer Shlash

The FSA are getting closer to Damascus the city, they're liberating more areas in the Rif

Yes it's

Al Ummat

I have only been out there once you see, it was beautiful Masha'Allah, I have been to other areas of الغوطة more

Tamer Shlash

The unfortunate thing is that whenever they liberate a place, the Governmental Army begins to bombard it and destroy it blindly :(

Most of the liberated places in الغوطة has became almost ruins

Al Ummat

11:58 PM

Masha'Allah

I am very sad, but I keep praying for Syria

and all other countries experiencing turmoil

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