@JohnDoe you don't need to explain that I just wanted to point at the fact that's not the hanbali school but the shafi'i who had a different opinion to the on held by the majority. That's the only point which sounded wrong to me in the discussion

@JohnDoe My criticism of your answer is still the same, it doesn't contain references, and without them, I don't trust the reasoning you present there because it seems flawed to me.

@G.Bach If the problem is with the reasoning, then a reference wouldn't magically solve the problem in the reasoning, it would merely re-iterate it. If you think there's a problem with the logic then please point it.