Mathematics - 2014-12-23 (page 1 of 10)

Mike Miller

12:00 AM

To you a graph is not a graph, then...

beginner

@ted but that would only work for planar graphs so it would be trouble

Kaj Hansen

I wonder if they offer graph theory as a summer course or something. I should actually take it at some point.

Ted Shifrin

I wrote a section about graphs in my linear algebra book. I guess I should reread it :P

Mike Miller

@beginner We're restricting to the set of planar graphs here.

Ted Shifrin

No, @Kaj, only in springs.

Mike Miller

12:01 AM

@KajHansen I think the book I used was West's book. It's the one Studentmath used - you might ask him. Great exercises.

beginner

@mike do you have hints on making dual graphs by hand easily?

Mike Miller

Nope

Draw some dots and some lines and stuff.

Ted Shifrin

@Kaj: After having taught probability, I now firmly believe I should have taken it in college and would encourage every math major—no matter how "pure"—to take it.

Jasper Loy

Welcome to this chat @wendy.krieger. I see you have many answers. You really deserve more points for them.

Don Larynx

I believe in nonplanar graphs, the number of faces changes depending on the location of the vertex

Alexander Gruber

12:01 AM

@TedShifrin probability was very neat

Kaj Hansen

@TedShifrin, I'll take that advice into serious consideration for next fall.

Ted Shifrin

You'll be safe, @Kaj. I'll be gone :P

Alexander Gruber

It takes a lot for me to say that something from analysis was very neat.

Ted Shifrin

I ended up with 11 A's and A-'s out of 29, so not that bad ... :)

wendy.krieger

Hello. I have not asked a question

beginner

12:02 AM

@mike I had another theorem, but I couldn't prove it so it is probably wrong, but the graph of a 3d object(other than a sphere), does it have one less face than the 3d object does?

Mike Miller

@DonLarynx It's not true that the number of faces depends on the embedding of the graph in the plane.

Ted Shifrin

Yes, @Alex, I realize that was scary for you.

Kaj Hansen

I'm actually not entirely sure what I'll be taking next year. I have to sit down and think about that at some point...

Jasper Loy

@TedShifrin I now believe that every math major should take every math course offered.

Ted Shifrin

Impossible, @Jasper, therefore ruled out.

hi @wendy

Mike Miller

12:03 AM

I'm sorry, @beginner, but the question doesn't make sense to me.

@TedShifrin I did it.

Jasper Loy

@TedShifrin It is possible if the department doesn't offer that many.

Kaj Hansen

Oh yes. I could take crypto. Some more abstract algebra for me <3

Ted Shifrin

well, @Mike, you were at a tiny school :P

wendy.krieger

Hi ted,

beginner

@mike cube has 6 faces, and its graph has 5, is this the same for all 3d objets

Don Larynx

12:03 AM

@Mike What is a face?

Mike Miller

OK, no argument there, @Kaj.

Alexander Gruber

@KajHansen Crypto is the bomb man. Do it.

beginner

@mike other than a sphere

Mike Miller

No, @beginner. The 'outside' face is still a face.

The graph assoc'd to it still has six faces.

Ted Shifrin

I dunno if we're offering crypto next year ... I hope we do, @Kaj. Bug Lorenzini about it.

Kaj Hansen

12:04 AM

@TedShifrin, I'm fairly certain we are, but I could be wrong.

Mike Miller

If you're not counting that as a face (and you should! because it is!), then yes, you're correct.

beginner

@mike wait WHAT?

Mike Miller

That big unbounded region counts as a face.

Ted Shifrin

I am out of the loop now, @Kaj ... and a few of my evaluations said I'm retiring, so I don't care any more :) Maybe they're right.

Kaj Hansen

Should probably take transforms before graduating as well...

Mike Miller

12:05 AM

What's a transform, @Kaj?

beginner

@mike I thought each contained area of the planar graph was the only faces??

Don Larynx

"big, unbounded region" I don't understand @Mike

Ted Shifrin

Well, @Kaj, it needs students this spring or it won't run.

Kaj Hansen

That's why I need to take the class @MikeMiller :)

wendy.krieger

Most of my maths is home grown, so it's hard to get the terms right.

beginner

12:05 AM

So outside the square that infinite region is a face......????

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger What do you mean by home grown?

Mike Miller

@beginner Check your definition - but if it doesn't include the infinite region, it's the wrong definition.

@DonLarynx That's fine.

@KajHansen oh.

Ted Shifrin

@Mike: discrete Fourier transform, SVD decomposition, Fourier, Radon ...

Don Larynx

@Mike, no it's not.

Mike Miller

Ah, I thought it was like transformers.

wendy.krieger

12:06 AM

I mean i redisccovered what i needed.

Kaj Hansen

Hmm, actually probability will be offered in the summer IIRC. I might do that.

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger Are you a professor somewhere?

Ted Shifrin

probably a crappy course in summer, though, @Kaj, like most are.

Kaj Hansen

Then I need at least two maths for the fall. something and something.

UGH.

wendy.krieger

No.

Don Larynx

12:07 AM

Understood what a face is now. @Mike

Ted Shifrin

@Kaj, I don't want to ask your grades here publicly, but we should discuss this, you and Brian and I.

wendy.krieger

Just a clerk with interests in polytopes.

Jasper Loy

Wow this chat is going too fast now.

Ted Shifrin

I'm about to leave, @Jasper, so it'll slow down.

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger Better than me. I am jobless, lol.

Kaj Hansen

12:07 AM

As far as a summer course @Ted?

Ted Shifrin

no, @Kaj, summer sucks. Forget about it. Fall.

wendy.krieger

I'm retired now,though

Jasper Loy

@TedShifrin You should consider not retiring.

Ted Shifrin

No, @Jasper, too many things make me too angry.

Kaj Hansen

Oh wait, when you say Brian, are you referring to Prof. Boe? I was thinking Mr. Oakley the whole time, haha

beginner

12:08 AM

@ted I hope you still come here and help me :)

Mike Miller

He's considered that for 83 years now, @Jasper.

wendy.krieger

but i do a fair bit of hyperbolic geometry in my head,

Ted Shifrin

LOL, @Kaj, yes, I meant Boe.

Jasper Loy

@TedShifrin I don't know what they are, but maybe you can try to change them if they make you angry.

Ted Shifrin

smacks @Mike and puts him on ignore with Balarka

Mike Miller

12:08 AM

Give me a hint on who your 15-y.o. Rene is, @Ted; I can't figure it out.

Kaj Hansen

Sure, that sounds good

Ted Shifrin

he's the kid with the blank face and black top-hat in the second row, @Mike.

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger So elementary geometry is your primary interest?

Mike Miller

OH, Rene in name but not in action.

I was thinking the latter.

Ted Shifrin

LOL, it used to be a perfectly lovely name, @Mike.

@Jasper: I don't consider hyperbolic geometry "elementary."

wendy.krieger

12:09 AM

Weights and measures, mainly

Jasper Loy

@TedShifrin Will you consider not ignoring Bala?

Ted Shifrin

Yes, @Jasper, I've been considering.

Jasper Loy

@TedShifrin OK. She mentioned polytopes too.

Ted Shifrin

OK, it's dinnertime for this bozo. You all have fun.

hi/bye @RandomVariable

Kaj Hansen

Oh no! I've now accrued more upvotes in the Calculus tag than the Galois theory tag. So much for having algebra topics in my top $3$. :(

beginner

12:11 AM

Using Chinese remainder theorem I can see that Z/abc is isomorphic to z/a x z/b x z/c, but I can't prove it for the general case, any hints?

wendy.krieger

I found some new hyperholic tilings

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger Why did you suddenly pop into this chat today? Never seen you before.

wendy.krieger

I found a button that says 'chat'

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger By the way, you can click on the arrow to the right of a message to reply. You will see the arrow if you hover over the line with a mouse.

@wendy.krieger Clicking on the left arrow brings you back to the message being replied to.

wendy.krieger

It's still a tad confusing. I am from before the space age :S

beginner

12:14 AM

cya @ted

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger Yes, you are just a bit younger than my mum, lol.

wendy.krieger

One kid somewhere said his grandmother did programming in fortran on punched cards. Like who hasn't done that?

Jasper Loy

Well, I don't know any programming.

wendy.krieger

Or written octal code to punched tape?

Don Larynx

Hi @wendy.krieger!

wendy.krieger

12:20 AM

Still, i invented a way of getting into heavy maths without trig functions, because the ordinary calculator went as far a division.

quid

@Integrator before I forget, I still saw your reply linking to meta.text.SE. I disagree this answer anything. In fact it supports my point in some sense.

wendy.krieger

Hi @Do

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger Did you study math in college?

wendy.krieger

I have a degree in applied physics

N3buchadnezzar

@quid How did you become a mod, who did you bribe? Whom did you eat?

wendy.krieger

12:22 AM

back in the seventies

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger I see. And I only heard of applied math, lol. Thought physics was already mostly applied.

quid

@N3buchadnezzar I could tell you but then ... they would de-mod me. So I won't.

wendy.krieger

No, there's theoretical physics too

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger Yeah, but that is mostly applied math, lol.

wendy.krieger

We did not get too much into group theory, for example, or relativity

Pedro Tamaroff

12:24 AM

@TedShifrin I "hall-way" know him. I might have him in projective geometry, eventually.

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger I see you are in Australia. Have you heard of Haese Math publishers there? They write good high school texts.

wendy.krieger

No. In queensland, you are lucky to ses the pop maths in big bookshops. Something to do with the heat - hardens the body - softens the mind.

Mike Miller

@N3buchadnezzar What actually happened is that a large group of users decided he would make a good moderator.

Apparently I was one of them back then... well, foresight is 20/20 :D

wendy.krieger

I uderstood it that you read their resumes, and the ones with the most votes got in.

Jasper Loy

@PedroTamaroff You look very much like Walter Rudin.

N3buchadnezzar

12:29 AM

@MikeMiller Blasphemy

Mike Miller

There's no reason to believe he's not Rudin, @JasperLoy.

wendy.krieger

But i do visit various things to see what people are up to. I mean, i get asked group theory questions on facebook!

Jasper Loy

@MikeMiller That is too deep for me to understand.

Mike Miller

I am claiming that Pedro Tamaroff and Walter Rudin are one and the same person.

Jasper Loy

@MikeMiller I really hope I can start studying next Thu. You must pray for me.

Pedro Tamaroff

12:32 AM

@MikeMiller Dang, my cover is blown.

wendy.krieger

What are you studying @JasperLoy

quid

@PedroTamaroff can I send my copy of your book for a dedication? ;)

Mike Miller

@JasperLoy I suggest you leave the site ahead of time, so as not to get distracted, as I am afraid you will be distracted and not study and will have to wait another year.

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger Well, I will be studying math, lol. I am trying to go to grad school eventually.

Mike Miller

@PedroTamaroff Now that you're wearing a hat, I'll vote for you.

Jasper Loy

12:34 AM

@MikeMiller I think the distraction is not a factor. The one and only factor is my mental problems.

wendy.krieger

I don't understand grad school.

Jasper Loy

@wendy.krieger You mean you don't know what it means?

wendy.krieger

We don't call it that here.

Jasper Loy

The world has different words for the same things.

wendy.krieger

What is it, like grade 12 ?

Jasper Loy

12:36 AM

@wendy.krieger It's like after you get a degree and want to get a further degree.

@wendy.krieger It stands for graduate school.

quid

@MikeMiller no, instead, I just bribed somebody :-)

Mike Miller

Well, I voted for you... where's my cash?

quid

I was referring to your deleted comment.

skullpatrol

bit coin?

quid

In addition @MikeMiller I am so ruthless that I bribe and then do not even pay!

Mike Miller

12:39 AM

Ah, I see.

Jasper Loy

@MikeMiller Do you know @quid in real life?

Mike Miller

Not yet, @JasperLoy, but I have a crack team of spies uncovering his identity as we speak.

Jasper Loy

@MikeMiller I think you are drunk.

skullpatrol

drunk on life :-)

wendy.krieger

Bye, must make christmas.

skullpatrol

12:44 AM

later

Jasper Loy

@MikeMiller If I start studying next Thu, I will be too busy to come to chat. If I don't, I will be too sad to come. So, maybe I won't come to chat ever again after this year.

r9m

@Chris'ssis As you command ! :-)

Mike Miller

Whatever happens, I hope that you're happy.

quid

@MikeMiller how do you get all those hats?

Jasper Loy

@MikeMiller I will try to find happiness this life. But if I don't I will try to find it in the next one. This life has been too hard for me.

quid

12:51 AM

I mean I know how, as I can read the description, what I mean to ask is do you expand a lot of effort or does this work more or less smoothly?

Mike Miller

only a few of them did I expend any serious effort on; the rest I got through normal participation. (And some were trivial but not what I'd normally do; e.g. I don't have an android phone and needed to a friend's for about five minutes.)

It's mostly a fun timewaster.

2

skullpatrol

just like this room :-)

Jasper Loy

Well, this room is not just a fun timewaster to me.

It's much more than that.

quid

1:09 AM

Thanks for the info @MikeMiller Perhaps again a mathematician will win networkwide.

Mike Miller

We can only hope.

Might I ask what you study, @quid?

quid

Math, what else could it be.

Ted Shifrin

Quid pro quo ...

Mike Miller

I was looking for more specificity - but perhaps I should take that as a "no" :)

quid

Some sort of number theory, mainly.

Mike Miller

1:16 AM

Sounds like a nice thing to do with one's life.

quid

The type of things I answer give a rough idea.

Yes. I am quite happy.

Jasper Loy

1:27 AM

It's fun to see avatars dropping out of this chat.

beginner

What is lesbsque integration?

Jasper Loy

It is a method of integration.

Integration is the finding of areas under curves.

beginner

Why is it so special?

hiw does it beat reiemann integratios

Jasper Loy

Special is not well defined.

First you need to spell correctly.

beginner

I am on a tablet pc with a bad keybard

yping properly is a waste of time when what I have said is cler

r9m

1:32 AM

THIS is an example of post that I hate ... editing in important info every minute about what he already knows (ie doesn't want) ! Its disgusting ! X( he should make up his mind and put in once and for all what he already knows and what he wants !

Jasper Loy

@r9m Welcome to SE.

beginner

r9m how does lesbesque integration beat riemann integrating?

lebesgue

r9m

@JasperLoy :P lol .. !

beginner

Where does Riesman fails/

Jasper Loy

@r9m Once I was correcting all the notation in a question comment by comment, and the asker told me to stop nitpicking, when it is impossible to answer the question if the notation is not clear. I was super pissed.

user130018

1:36 AM

@JasperLoy I did bad on my exam again

Jasper Loy

Hi @user130018 I miss you, lol.

@user130018 What was it on?

user130018

@JasperLoy Analysis

Jasper Loy

@user130018 OK. Well, it's over, don't worry about it. Just prepare for your next paper tmr.

user130018

@JasperLoy Today was my last one

Jasper Loy

@user130018 Congrats!

@user130018 I feel like emailing you to talk about some things. I think maybe I will do it later on or over the next few days.

user130018

1:39 AM

@JasperLoy Passing should not deserve congratulations..only if I did well (which I didn't)

Jasper Loy

@user130018 I said congrats for ending your exams.

@user130018 It's hard to say how you would do. Maybe everyone screwed up.

user130018

Okay, I'm wasting too much time on here...I need to go study

Talk to you later @JasperLoy

Jasper Loy

@user130018 Aren't your exams over?

Don Larynx

welp, that's that. I cant solve problem euler 494.

I really wanted to be top 50 too

Jasper Loy

@user130018 I think now that your exams are over, you should take a break.

teadawg1337

1:42 AM

Heya @beginner :3

quid

@beginner see this question for some info around your question

12

Q: Good motivation for the introduction of Lebesgue integral?

When students take a course on real analysis, they have likely learned about Riemann integrals. What is a good motivation why they have to learn a new way to integrate? A student don't want to hear to something like "You will now learn the new concept and in next years you will the importance ...

user130018

@JasperLoy I studied all semester for my classes and I still didn't do well in them..this means I should study more, meaning the only time I have left to study is outside of the semester so I have to start studying now for next semester

Jasper Loy

@user130018 No, that's not how it works. Sure, study more, but also try to study the right way. And also take a break.

user130018

@JasperLoy I don't know how else to study so I just study more

Jasper Loy

@user130018 But you did very well last semester. So ask yourself what happened?

user130018

1:47 AM

@JasperLoy I already knew all the material beforehand for all of last semester's classes

Jasper Loy

@user130018 Were the exam questions this time really hard?

user130018

@JasperLoy Yes

Jasper Loy

@user130018 How could you have done them? By having studied more, or what?

user130018

@JasperLoy I think so

quid

I guess I will leave for today.

See you all!

Jasper Loy

1:48 AM

@user130018 Hmm, maybe spend some time thinking about how to study rather than studying more, since you appear to be working very hard already.

Don Larynx

@user130018, I, too, only get great grades when I study before the semester

Ted Shifrin

Night, @quid

Don Larynx

that's life, son

Jasper Loy

@DonLarynx Are you his father?

Don Larynx

@Jasper: It's a figure of speech

Jasper Loy

1:50 AM

@DonLarynx Yes, I know, lol.

Don Larynx

Haha, I'm not. I would be unfortunate to have a child at this age

quid

Night, @TedShifrin (tough maybe were you are it is not quite night yet. What a complicated thing these timezones.)

Don Larynx

I feel like a grad student

It's not too bad

Robert Cardona

I'm looking at corollary 2.5 atiyah macdonald. I choose $x$ and then I look at a generator for $M$ say $x_i$. How does $xx_i =0$? Specifically, how do I annihilate the $a_n$?

Jasper Loy

@DonLarynx Why do you feel so?

Don Larynx

1:55 AM

@Jasper, technically I've graduated already (I've decided to take extra math classes, as I have 20 hours left before I pass excess credit) and for the last two weeks I've spent almost my entire day in front of a computer

looking at math things

teadawg1337

Getting into high IQ societies isn't usually something I'd boast about, but... I got into the IHIQS. I could join Mensa, but I'm not comfortable with the irl meetup sort of thing...

Ugh... Now I feel like a tool for mentioning it

beginner

Hey @tea how are you?

Transcript for

$Mathematics$ Mathematics