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6:04 PM
@Chris'ssis That still leads into the same sillyness
 
I love fish sticks
They are my favorite
I can eat them all day every day
 
@Chris'ssis I like the answer from the integral, kind of. However I don't think it is very well defined.
 
@Alizter What answer?
 
@Chris'ssis I think it has an imaginary answer.
well an imaginary part anyway
OH CRAP
$\sqrt{1-x}$ not the other way
Sorry for being so critical @Chris'ssis
 
@alizter I forgot. You will just be using the library for the A level math books right, or are you buying them?
 
6:18 PM
@Alizter NO WORRY ;)
 
@JasperLoy Both
 
@Alizter All the boards test similar material?
 
@JasperLoy Pretty much. There is some regulation on what to test but 50-40% is by board.
 
@Alizter Screeew you guys, I am going to StackOverflow.
 
@RespectMyAuthoritah I have the photo of you and Butters.
And I know you are "the Coon TM".
 
6:37 PM
@Chris'ssis :O
 
The hard part of $$\int_0^1 \log^2(\sqrt{1+x}-\sqrt{1-x}) \ dx$$ gets reduced to computing $$\int_0^{\sqrt{2}/2} \frac{\arcsin(x)}{x} \ dx$$
where this last kind of integral was studied by Ramanujan ...
 
@Alizter It seems the decision math part did not exist long ago.
 
@JasperLoy Some of the math taught is only 10-25 years old
 
6:55 PM
@Alizter can you finish it?
 
@Chris'ssis I got it to what you said. I got a bit bored. :P
 
@Alizter Do you have time to get bored? Be busy all the time! :D
 
That last integral I hate. I have seen it before and I remember not being too successful with it.
I am fairly sure it is $\log \pi$
Close
 
$$\int_0^{\sqrt{2}/2} \frac{\arcsin(x)}{x} \ dx=\frac{1}{2}G+\frac{\pi}{8}\log(2)$$
 
It has some catalan something in it right?
oh
I remember the one from 0 to 1
that is $\frac12\pi\log 2$
 
6:59 PM
@Alizter It flows naturally.
 
Hey everyone. Is there a way to make MathJex compile properly in chat?
 
@Chris'ssis You know that obsession you had with fractional part integrals at some point.
I would love to see some closed forms to ones you talked about
 
@daOnlyBG here
 
Got it. Thanks!
 
@Alizter I still like fractional part integrals ... :-)
 
7:01 PM
@Chris'ssis Do you remember the one I came up with?
That you found was $\log \pi$
that was a good day :P
 
@Alizter Yeah
@Alizter :D
Wait then ...
 
@Chris'ssis You did a similar generalisation of it what was the closed form?
 
@Alizter $$ \int_0^1 \int_0^1 \left \{2\frac{x}{y} \right \} \left \{2\frac{y}{x}\right \} \ dx \ dy$$
 
@daOnlyBG np pal :-)
 
@Chris'ssis I have an idea. Maybe polar coordiantes.
 
7:08 PM
@Alizter
 
@BalarkaSen
 
@Alizter?
 
@BalarkaSen?
 
@Alizter What did you think of those geometric way to understand galois theory stuff then?
 
@BalarkaSen Oh it was cool however...
I still am not sure about the loops
 
7:10 PM
What loops?
 
For example $x^5-x-1$ was our symmetric group one right?
 
@JasperLoy
 
@Alizter Yes
 
@user130018 Yes.
 
@JasperLoy Hi
 
7:10 PM
If you do $x^5-x$ it is the same thing translated no? So what has it got to do with the group?
 
@Alizter It isn't.
 
@user130018 Hehe.
 
If I say B=A^5-A
 
Erm. Can we move on to NT chat? It's too crowded here.
 
it is same
 
7:16 PM
Hi people
 
hello @UserX
 
hi
 
how did your studying number theory go?
 
Hi Professor @TedShifrin
 
Hi @skull
 
7:18 PM
@TedShifrin!
 
re @Balarka
 
rehi to you too
 
@TedShifrin are you ready for Halloween?
 
@BalarkaSen I crammed 60 pages of NT and 80 of euclidean geometry, now I got a lot of euclidean geometry left
 
Good. Let those be left.
 
7:19 PM
Bought candy ... Usually trick 'r treaters don't show up much
 
@UserX what have you learned then?
modular arithmetic?
 
Up to euler's theorem. Although I don't really understand everything
 
how much time left?
 
I'll go with the hope that there will be no number theory on this one, I'll pass this one and will have time to read for the next one
11 hours
Gotta sleep too though...
Hah, I'm using modular arithmetic to answer you the how much time :P
 
:D
 
7:29 PM
@UserX Compute $2^{59} $ modulo $109$
 
"What is the difference between method and device? A method is a device which you used twice."
What is the difference between an analysis and a method? An analysis is a method which you used twice.
 
Thus analysis is a device which you used four times?
 
Indeed.
In different contexts...
 
@BalarkaSen No way, they are more rewarding.
 
@Sawarnik "rewarding" huh?
 
7:41 PM
Yes.
And interesting.
 
sure is. but number theory is interesting too.
 
Maybe.
 
i don't get the "rewarding" part
 
Well.
Ok, leave it, not really rewarding.
 
@IceBoy do you know statistics? :)
 
7:49 PM
@BalarkaSen I don't know how to compute that :P 59 is prime, 109 is prime is reminds me a little of fermat's little theorem that deals with some mod(p) but I can't connect them
Also, is there a faster way to check if x is prime other than eratosthesis sieve?
 
8:15 PM
@TheArtist not really, just AskAway, someone will answer :)
 
8:29 PM
@IceBoy have you heard the viral news that earth will be in darkness for 6 days from dec 16 to 21 ? :p
I wonder how people fall for that O.o
 
no?
 
Seriously facebook is filled with that...you can do a google search
 
ignorance is infinite
 
And you know the theory backing it ?
 
nope
 
8:31 PM
Lol debris from a solar storm will cover the sun for 6 days lolzzz
And people actually believe that crap
 
:D
 
@TheArtist I thought they asked people from Hammerfest.
 
@DanielFischer whats hammerfest? :p
 
@TheArtist A town in the north of Norway. They sink in darkness for weeks every winter.
 
The viral Vedio and images go as "NASA confirms 6 days of darkness" :p
@DanielFischer this news is for the whole world :p
 
8:34 PM
@DanielF !
 
Hi @Ted.
 
Our last day of peace, @DanielF (not counting the ghosts and goblins that will be showing up at my door).
 
@TedShifrin are you ted the teddy bear? :D
 
Ah, speaking of Halloween, I see Sawarnik has transmogrified to a bat.
 
You never know, @Ted, some people actually cool down during suspension.
 
8:35 PM
Really, @DanielF? I would think the opposite :)
 
@TedShifrin Rare, but not unheard of.
 
You'll just never know, @TheArtist.
 
Why is Matt Ellen spelling his name in Cyrillic in the English room?
 
Double negation, @IceBoy?
 
8:37 PM
Insert comma, @DanielF.
 
^
:-)
 
@IceBoy the point is , legal media has to come out and tell that nasa didn't tell this :p until that people believe that
 
@DanielF, are you baking us a cake soon?
 
In the ELU room, they should be able to do that themselves.
 
LOL @DanielF (sans virgule).
 
8:38 PM
@IceBoy most people who hasn't seen this news still believes in the darkness lol
 
@TedShifrin Will you come around here soon?
 
Around where?
 
@TedShifrin Around here, it'll be difficult to pass you a piece of cake across the big pond.
 
Oh ... Well, you never know :) But no immediate plans. Still haven't 100% decided I'm retiring. I hate the agonizing. :(
 
Listen to your heart :)
 
8:41 PM
He's not a cardiologist, @IceBoy.
 
My heart has been a great deal of trouble the last 7 years ...
 
Move to LA and be my personal tutor, @Ted
I'll pay you in crackers
 
@Mike: You can do much better than that.
 
take a semi-retirement :P
teach only one class
 
.
 
8:44 PM
the point of retiring is to move ... not just to quit teaching (which I don't 100% want to do)
ah, there's batty Sawarnik
 
can't you teach your one class in California?
 
@DanielFischer you have such a high rep in stackoverflow :p do you know to hack facebook accounts? :p
 
@TheArtist No correlation.
 
would need to get hired to do so, @skull ... there are lots of young'uns who need adjunct jobs more than I do ... The college education world is in sad shape in our country.
 
@TheArtist I hardly know what facebook is.
 
8:47 PM
@Ted You want soup and crackers? You're pushing it, but I think I can still do that.
 
@UserX just use basic modular multiplication
 
None of that canned crap, @Mike. It's full of salt and chemicals.
 
@DanielFischer It is like one big category.
 
@TedShifrin you could make a series of YouTube videos :D) while in California...
 
I think my career may be nearing the end, @skull ...
 
8:49 PM
@Ted I can make one tuna fish sandwich and a set of oyster cracked per day. This is my limit.
 
@TedShifrin make something like "minutemath" ? :p
 
Can you have a set of groups under some thingy forming a group?
 
pfeh ... I absolutely detest tuna fish from the can, @Mike.
 
@Sawarnik there is a positive correlation :p
@DanielFischer oh ok...
 
@Ted Well, I tried, but clearly you're beyond my price range.
 
8:50 PM
@TedShifrin Tu deteste la tuna au canne?
nailed it
 
you already knew that, @Mike.
 
@Alizter can you be more explicit?
 
@Alizter groups of groups?
 
Yes.
 
@Alizter You know French?
 
8:51 PM
@Sawarnik: That was NO French.
 
@Alizter would be pretty ad-hoc. you can make up a semigroup though.
 
I know you can have a catagory with groups
 
just use the bunch of finite groups, and your cartesian product
@Alizter semigroups > category
 
ya
 
lol.
 
8:53 PM
@BalarkaSen semigroups don't have identity though?
 
what are you loling at, @Mike?
@Alizter sure it can. in that case it's called a monoid.
 
@BalarkaSen our petty squables.
@BalarkaSen yeah, so it is not a semigroup anymore it is a monoid.
 
names
 
Hmm let me try and construct Z_2
 
<--- extricates himself from anything categorical
 
8:55 PM
@Alizter ?
 
@TedShifrin No categories here. Just underundergraduate naivity.
 
So, @DanielF, I have come to the realization that it seriously takes some Lebesgue integration/graduate analysis to completely prove the Central Limit Theorem. And half my class can't do high-school level probability/calculus. :(
 
Naïveté, @Alizter
 
Ouch.
 
Thank you for that correction, @Mike.
 
8:58 PM
@MikeMiller nativity.
How did you write quotient groups with left cosets?
For $G$ and $H$ lets say
was it $G \setminus H$?
 
left? That's $G/H$. right? that's $H\G$.
 
huh
 
Oh
thats it
thank you @TedShifrin
 
@Alizter G/H, dude
 
oh, I can't use backslash :P
@Balarka: Do Indians say "dude"?
 
9:02 PM
@TedShifrin rarely
 
\backslash, @Ted.
 
I thought that was a singularly north-American expression.
Right, @DanielF :)
 
@Mike huh
 
Or is it left?
 
we are right @Ted
up high
 
9:02 PM
\dude
 
thumbs down at @Mike
 
So, @Mike, are your classes still speaking to you?
 
Perhaps too much, @Ted
 
@TedShifrin I am north american.
 
As in begging, @Mike?
oh? @Balarka
 
9:04 PM
No - just a lot of people now asking when the grades will be available online. (A: whenever the professor sets them visible.)
 
yes, @Ted. this is my fake identity.
 
Good time to send out a mass email to the class, @Mike, rather than fielding dozens of queries.
 
I did.
 
I posted solutions to my exam yesterday, so I'm guessing that a number of my students will deduce it didn't go so well.
 
$G/H$ is right cosets. $H \backslash G$ is let cosets.
 
9:05 PM
urm
$gH$
 
They may not deduce that over half got C, D, F.
 
is that right or left?
 
no @Alizter.
 
God damn notation
 
phew
 
9:06 PM
@TedShifrin C,D,F is fitting for prob ;)
 
<- left right?
 
It's a question of on which side the group acts.
yes, @DanielF, I thought I would start with that.
 
forget it. It is a normal subgroup. hahahaha
 
@Alizter kicks hard
 
oh good, @Balarka has moved on from throwing tables.
 
9:08 PM
@TedShifrin You should move on from smack to bash
Oh by the way @Ted. Have I told you my current project?
 
Hmm the trivial group is the only group to satisfy under direct product $G^2\cong\{1\}$ right?
 
Obviously @Alizter
What's the order of $G^2$
 
@BalarkaSen You cannot say that.
 
What's the order of $\{1\}$?
 
I am nealing learning
 
9:11 PM
Order is preserved under taking isomorphism
Thus $G$ is trivial
 
Good to know that direct product is useless at forming groups.
 
Huh?
 
@TedShifrin Are you huhing at me?
 
Ayup.
 
@TedShifrin Then what was it?
 
9:14 PM
I am trying to form a group with groups as elements and direct product as op
 
What was which?
oh, ugh @Alizter.
 
@TedShifrin I am trying to look at the inverse limit of $S^1$s with the pullback morphisms being $x \mapsto x^{p^i}$ and at the same time at the inverse limit of the graphs $Cay(\Bbb Z/p^i)$s with similar pullback morphisms. The two are quasiisometrically the same if they exists. I believe it has some connection with $\mathbf{Z}_p$ but can't really say anything about it.
The latter is a graph with $|\Bbb Z_p|$ elts so it has a strong chance of being $Cay(\mathbf{Z}_p)$.
 
Only the first thing do I even understand. You're far removed from things I think about, @Balarka. And it's not the first time.
 
@TedShifrin $Cay(G, S)$ is the cayley graph of G with generating set S.
 
yeah, well ...
 
9:17 PM
Ahh, Group quotient can form groups. $\{\{1\}, G\}\cong (\Bbb Z/2\Bbb Z)$
 
you told me you weren't interested in $\Gamma(\Bbb Z_p)$, @Balarka.
 
@BalarkaSen 77
Damn that was so fast
 
@MikeMiller I am interested in a geometric way to think about $\mathbf{Z}_p$
 
And no I didn't calculate 2^59
 
Well I am going to spill the beans
I am trying to think of a geometric way to realize $Gal(\bar{Q}/Q)$, in fact
thus the experiments with the lesser mortals like Z_p
@UserX yes
how did you do it?
 
9:19 PM
Can I improve the algorithm? I used $5\times 1024 \mod 101 +512\mod101=70+7=77$
 
uh huh?
 
Is that too weird?
 
i don't understand it
 
I came up with it with trial and error
 
bah
@Alizter huh?
what is your operation?
 
9:22 PM
@BalarkaSen group qoutient
 
Well $c=a^t \mod q$, to solve for c I rewrite $t=a_1+a_2+\dots+a_n$ then $c=a^{a_1}\mod q+a^{a_1}\mod q+\dots$
 
that is so not a group binary operation @Alizter
 
wait
 
I write the exponent as an addition of some terms, compute their modq(divide and keep remainder method) and multiply them all together
Is that legal to do? It worked in many other examples I tried to see a connection
 
I have fried my brain working on that combinatorics problem.
did not sleep well.
 
9:24 PM
@Alizter first of all, G/H is defined iff H is a subgroup of G
 
So my whole day is bad.
@BalarkaSen yah. I realise it is all jibberish
 
it's BS, @Alizter
 
ok
:(
 
@BalarkaSen what's the normal way to compute it?
 
Don't be a dick, @Balarka.
 
9:26 PM
such language, @Balarka. There are children here.
 
flees
 
oh, and don't scratch the bites.
 
@BalarkaSen No wait don't flee you didn't explain!
 
and ignores @Mike forever
 
Yippee for @Mike.
 
9:28 PM
Hey guys, very very quick question. I am just too tired to think about it. Reading up on measure theory, I found a sequence $f_n = 1_{[n, n+1]}$ They say this converges point wise to the 0 function
 
Of course, @masfenix. Fix an $x$.
 
@MikeMiller why do you think i am being one :P
 
Right, but what to do after?
I fix $x$, and I fix $\epsilon$ and I am trying to find a $N$ such that $n > N$ and so on
 
Let $n$ go to infinity. So what happens when $N>x$?
 
well all $f_n$ are zeros
 
9:31 PM
that will do it :P
 
@Mike interesting : replace Z/p^i s by corresponding riemann surfaces of w^p^i = z over C, and take the inverse limit of the inverse system of those with the pullback morphism being covering maps. that also converges to something similar. with the profinite topology, it is in fact homeomorphic to the cantor set and thus to the p-adics.
 
Yeah that's what I was thinking also. So just in mathematical terms. Lets fix $x, \epsilon$. We want to find a $N$ such that $n > N$ implies $ | f_n(x) - f(x) | < \epsilon$. But why would be a priori set $f(x)= 0$?
I mean, I realize it may be a stupid question and I am just forgetting my first year calc.
 
to see this, look at the fibers of some certain point on C under the chain of covering maps
 
Because you compute $\lim\limits_{n\to\infty} f_n(x)=0$ before you start the proof, @masfenix.
 
it gives you a standard 4-adic tree (well, except the root node), the boundary of which converges to the cantor set
 
9:34 PM
I see. Okay , so we have $f_n(x) < \epsilon$ and obviously $N > x$ makes this zero and clearly that's less that epsilon
got it, @TedShifrin thanks!
 
Sure.
 
That sounds like nonsense to me, but sure.
 
@MikeMiller why should that be nonsense?
 
Well, that ignoring sure didn't last long ...
 
@TedShifrin i can't possibly ignore @Mike!
 
9:38 PM
I possibly ignored you!
 
that's just you.
 
Oh, so I'm a "just."
 
Is something wrong with my answer here?
0
A: Evaluating $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{n-1}\frac{H_{2n}}{n}$

Chris's sisFrom the generating function for the harmonic numbers, we immediately have that $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{H_n}{n}z^n=\frac{1}{2}\log^2(1-z)+\operatorname{Li_2}(z)$$ and after multiplying both sides by $-2$ and setting $z=i$, we get $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{n+1}\frac{H_{2n}}{n}=-2\left(\f...

(maybe it's too fast - I agree)
 
What you wrote doesn't convince me of anything, much less that the limit is $\Bbb Z_p$. If you have a full, coherent proof, I'll read it.
 
Damn, @Mike is in stern TA mode.
 
9:40 PM
OK, @Mike.
 
@TedShifrin do you mind just quickly going over this thread's answer (there is only one, 3 lines). I don't understand the last line. how can $f_n$ (from above) take on values both 0 and 1?
 
you didn't link it, @masfenix
 
2
Q: Egorov's Theorem - Counterexample in Infinite Case

user71443Why does Egorov's theorem not hold in the case of infinite measure? It turns out that, for example, $f_n = \chi_{[n,n+1]}x$ does not converge nearly uniformly, that is, it does not converge on E such that for a set F m(E\F) < $\epsilon$. Is this simply true because it takes on the value 1 for e...

Oh nevermind, its essentially saying that no matter what closed set you pick, at some point your sequence will get "out" of this closed subset and take on values 1, 0 again. And at that point, you still have pointwise convergence.. but I don't see how that says you can't have uniform converge
 
@masfenix: He means there are $x_1$ and $x_2$ with $f_n(x_1)=1$ and $f_n(x_2)=0$. Which is clear if $F$ is fixed and you choose an appropriate $n$.
Because for any $\epsilon<1$, it's not true that $|f_n(x)-0|<\epsilon$ for all $x$ !
 
@TedShifrin awesome thanks. still trying to wrap my head around it but I think I'll get it!
 
9:50 PM
@masfenix: Draw pictures!! Uniform convergence means that when you draw an $\epsilon$-fence around the graph of $f$, all the graphs of the $f_n$, for $n>N$, have to be inside.
 
Yes, I actually did that but I am confused about Egorov's theorem. It says that there exists a closed set inside a measureable set E (m(E) < inf) where the sequence converges uniformly.
 
Well, only when $E$ is finite to start with!
So you can't think about this sort of example.
Try a different sort of example of sequence (on $[0,1]$, say), where you have non-uniform convergence to the $0$ function.
 
okay, but this is the counter example to egorov's thorem. It shows why the set E needs to have finite measure. So we let E = R in our counter example. so m(E) = inf. and we have this sequence $f_n$ that converges pointwise, but never uniformly.
 
right
but you might appreciate/understand it better if you took the finite case and an example of a non-uniformly convergent sequence.
 
but I am not sure how its trying everything together.. what does this particular sequence have to do with measure of the space? and why are we looking at the complement (in the math.se thread answer)
okay I'll think about that
 
9:54 PM
because the theorem talks about uniform convergence on the complement.
 
@Ted pls hlp
 
why are you telling me, @Alizter? I'm not fond of helping people who show no effort.
I usually ask "What have you tried?"
 
@TedShifrin What is a submersion?
 
REALLY! In my notes it says that this sequence converges uniformly inside this closed set A that's embedded in E. (ie, m(E \ A) < epsilon)
 
it's a smooth map with surjective derivative at every point
no, @masfenix ... you screwed up your notes ... it's uniform outside that small set
oh, your notes are screwy.
 
9:57 PM
@TedShifrin maybe this?
 
Your notes are backwards from the usual way ($A=E-F$)
@Balarka: Why are you guys wanting me to answer questions? I'm on retirement.
 
I dunno. I just recalled that I ever made a mental note to let you know about that question.
 
@ted either I am reading Stein's book wrong or they have an error (I'll bet on me reading it wrong)
 

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