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12:04 AM
Hatcher is not good
I think Spanier and Singer/Thorpe exceeds it
@Adeek I am very sorry for this late reply. S/T is indeed a good book, but it only covers bare essentials. Plus, there are only few problems.
 
you don't like Hatcher != Hatcher is not good
 
Everybody's more than entitled to their own opinion.
 
@0celo7 Yeah is there a problem?
I spoke from my own opinions
 
Might be a bit more helpful to preface it with 'I think that ...' etc. :-)
 
Thanks for the correction
The thing with Hatcher is that he obscures the clarity with a lot of words. It reminds me of Strichartz' The Way of Analysis.
 
12:07 AM
I agree that Hatcher is wordy.
 
His problems are also easy
 
One person's easy question may be another person's tough one.
 
saying that the problems are categorically easy is pretty conceited.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:22 AM
@BalarkaSen Interesting theorem...every (smooth) manifold admits a complete metric.
(topological metric)
In a slightly different form, this is known as the Nomizu-Ozeki theorem.
I wonder what the regularity of Nash embedding is.
 
2:22 AM
@BalarkaSen I have a relatively simple proof, actually. Let $(M,g)$ be Riemannian and let $(S,h)$ be a properly embedded submanifold with $h$ the induced metric. Let $d_g,d_h$ be the distance functions wrt. the two metrics. Then $d_h(x,y)\le d_g(x,y)$ for $x,y\in S$.
What this means is that if $(x_n)\subset S$ is Cauchy wrt. $d_g$, it is also Cauchy wrt. $d_h$.
Suppose $(M,g)$ is complete. Since $S$ is properly embedded, it is closed in $M$. Then for $(x_n)\subset S$ Cauchy in $M$, it is also Cauchy in $S$, and converges in $S$ by closedness of $S$ in $M$ and completeness of $M$.
Let $M$ be any manifold. By Whitney, we may properly embed $M$ into $\Bbb R^{2n+1}$. Give $\Bbb R^{2n+1}$ the standard Euclidean metric. This is a complete Riemannian manifold. As we just showed, the pullback metric on $M$ is complete.
This also doubles as a proof that any paracompact manifold has a Riemannian metric.
It's shorter than the usual one, but Whitney is pretty powerful for it.
Oh no
Nomizu-Ozeki is that there is a conformal complete metric.
I'll have to think harder about that one
 
 
1 hour later…
4:01 AM
@Huy Talk to what he'd like to learn.
@MathWanderer Either you have Hatcher and Munkres, which are both easy to read, or Spanier and more abstract categorical books on AT which are hard to read. Take your pick ;)
@MathWanderer Eh?
Can you do all the problems?
The problems are very NOT easy. The general conscience is that they are hard.
 
@BalarkaSen Certainly not as hard as Hirsch
 
That is believable.
 
my prof read Hirsch 20-30 years ago and his main memory is the problems being hard
although I saw an Amazon review of some book saying Hirsch was easy
 
4:25 AM
hi @BalarkaSen
no it is okay @MathWanderer
@BalarkaSen I attended today a lecture about the enigma encryption machine hosted by one of our math professor.
was really cool
that is the prof who did the presentation was really cool peterberg.net
 
 
2 hours later…
Huy
6:07 AM
@Kari: Converging and diverging are two very different things??
@BalarkaSen: I'll do
 
user227867
6:37 AM
@Huy One question mark will do, no need for two.
 
Huy
ignored
 
user227867
@user1618033 I just watched 'The man who knew infinity', but I did not enjoy the movie. It's kind of boring.
 
6:49 AM
@Alessandro my heart goes to the victims, i am already regretted and wish toronto city will recover soon .
 
 
2 hours later…
8:53 AM
@user1618033 oh dear, i had dozens of Prof. Howard' likes in my classes and more to see
 
 
1 hour later…
10:20 AM
@JasperLoy OK
@Agawa001 I'm pretty aware that in a class you won't be told too much about how important is to trust yourself, but I think this is a critical point if you wanna get anywhere. So, having around enough sources that suggest you to follow a certain behaviour in terms of performance, not to have greater expectations, or never dare to reach the performance of the great figures in science is the thing you might not like to happen to you.
Despite that for a long period of time I never had a positive environment for my math development, I evaded from there and followed the course that led me to some results I would have never obtained otherwise. It's not easy, but it's not impossibe at all.
Yeah, there are lots of Prof. Howard' likes, and you want to avoid them as much as you can (although sometimes it is pretty hard).
 
10:49 AM
It's not that I ever felt the need to share anything from my thought related to Ramanujan, or my performance expectations, but often I did that on purpose and saw how open-minded users here are.
Actually, I did that more times also on different topics to see how people react, but I never needed a confirmation, approval from anyone for any of my decisions.
Anyway, no need to say more.
Time for hard work!
 
11:13 AM
lol i didnt expect that much of a reply
anyways, i quit my journey of "finding myself" and "self-beating for perfection" long ago, why? because working does mean simply to obey rules rather than focusing on touching the ceil of success, maybe i can retake that journey one time if the demon of inspiration reknocks my door
time for soft work
 
 
2 hours later…
12:57 PM
Please, try to share your exam papers?

http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1904280/recommend-pdf-weblink-for-this-syllabus
 
hey every1
 
ok
 
up for a quick question on maximums?
or at least lead me to some theory in order to solve this
refference*
1
Q: Find the Max of The function

Manolis LyviakisFind the maximum of the the function $$f(\bar x)=\sqrt{x_1^2+2x_2^2+......2016x_{2016}^2}$$ $\bar x=(x_1,x_2,....x_{2016}) \in R^{2016}$ where the domain of $f$ is $$\bar x=(x_1,x_2,....x_{2016}) \in R^{2016} :\sum_{n=1}^{2016}x_n^2=1$$. Sol: $f^2(\bar x)={x_1^2+2x_2^2+......2016x_{2016}^2}=...

 
first of all abbrevaite 2016 by n lol
then use lagrange maximers
 
Cauchy-Schwarz is probably easier here.
 
1:11 PM
may be, but langrage maximers are fool proof :D
 
Agreed.
It's a trick-free approach, but perhaps tedious sometimes (not in this case, not really).
 
lagrage maximers?
i want to find the exact value not prove that it has a maximum
 
Yes, Lagrange maximization does that for you.
 
well just plug in the values find by the lagrane maximizers
found*
 
to find the lagrange multipliers calculate the gradient and solve the system with 2016 variables will take forever
 
1:19 PM
No, it won't.
 
CAn you please gimie a reference ?
 
you know how to take partial derivatives right
xD
as i said, let n=2016
 
how will i avoid solving 2017 equations?
in 2017 unknowns?
 
LOL
it doesnt mattter how many unknowns you have
you can have 200000010401040100410401040100 unknowns
just let it be denoted by n
 
@ManolisLyviakis Your function is $f(x) = x_1^2 + 2x_2^2 + \cdots + nx_n^2$, which you want to maximize wrt $g(x) = x_1^2 + \cdots + x_n^2 = 1$. Lagrange maximization says extremums are the solutions to $\nabla f = \lambda \nabla g$. Write it out; you get $2[x_1, 2x_2, \cdots, nx_n] = 2\lambda [x_1, \cdots, x_n]$. The solutions are given by by $\lambda = k$ and $x_i = 0$ for all $i \neq k$ and $x_k = 1$. The maximum is attained for $k = n$: that's your solution, $x_n = 1$ and everything else is $0$.
That's where $f$ is $n$, so your answer is $\sqrt{n}$.
The point is the 2016 equations (or, indeed, $n$ many equations) are very simple here.
 
1:34 PM
@BalarkaSen i was trying to solve $\nabla L(\bar x,λ)=0$
 
I don't know that notation, but I doubt it'd be anything different than that.
 
it is the same equation you wrote if i take everything to the right hand side
into one vector and then solve at each component =0
 
2:04 PM
If $\Vert x \Vert = 1$ then can I automatically say $\Vert A x \Vert = \Vert A \Vert$? Or can I only get as far as the inequality $\Vert A x \Vert \le \Vert A \Vert$?
 
Inequality.
More precisely, you might wanna write $\|A\|$ with an operator norm subscript.
Something like $\|A\|_{X \to Y}$ perhaps.
A counterexample would be the linear map taking $x$ to $Ax = cx$ where $c \in \mathbb{R}\setminus\{1\}$.
@csss
 
2:24 PM
@Kari suppose i have a symmetric matrix find its eigenvalues and say $||A||=|δ|$ the greater eigenvalue. then if im asked to find a u vector such that $||x||=1$ $\in R^2$ that satisfys the $||Ax||=||A||$ what am i suppose to do?
 
What's special about a symmetric matrix?
Is it real symmetric?
 
i can find its $||A||$ with eigenvalues
ye
 
How do you find $\|A\|$ with its eigenvalues?
 
$||A||=sup{|d| :d=$ eigenvalues of $A$
 
There is always a vector $x$ w/ $\|x\| = 1$ such that $\|Ax\| = \|A\|$
 
2:30 PM
How would one show that this is the case, @Balarka?
 
is it universal when we are talking about matrix norms what norm we use?
 
Space of $x$'s such that $\|x\| = 1$ is compact. Multiplication by $A$ attains a maximum over that because so does every function on a compact domain.
I am assuming by $\|A\|$ we mean supremum of $|Ax|$ over $\|x\| = 1$, which I think is the standard convention.
 
Yep, felt you were getting at that.
 
so how do i find such a vector?
 
There are loads of equivalent definitions for the operator norm, one of which is the one you stated.
 
2:32 PM
@Manolis Lagrange maximization :P
 
in my case?
really??/
hahahahaha
i just dont know what definition to use to expand $||Ax||=5$
 
I mean, you have to maximize $|Ax|^2$ over $|x|^2 = 1$.
@ManolisLyviakis The definition of vector norm...
 
do the calculations with the matrix A times the vector x and then whatever vector i get ill use the norm of the vector space?
ohh right thats what i thought :P
 
That's what norm of $Ax$ means.
@Kari I see.
 
so the ||*|| is always the sqrt of the squares of the coordinates if not mentioned otherwise?
on whatever dimension? say $R^3$
 
2:36 PM
 
In $\Bbb R^n$, yes. That is precisely the Euclidean norm.
 
ok thanks im just learning this things
these*
its really bad if you do not have a rigorous proffesor
with a bad notation
 
@BalarkaSen He took my $\ell^p$ proof.
 
Nice.
I revised the proof of Lefschetz fixed point theorem for simplicial complexes, by the way.
Think it should generalize to PL manifolds.
(I think they are not distinct categories, but maybe it's not quite trivial to show that)
Generalize is the wrong word there but w/e
 
why are PL manifolds useful
?
 
2:44 PM
I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for. Useful in what?
Certainly not useful in everyday life!
 
yeah, but in mathematics
what kind of techniques you can use for them
which you can't use for General topological manifolds
 
That's still too broad. PL-manifolds are a different category of manifolds which sit between Top and Diff. They are an interesting object of study, as in manifolds with any extra structure worth studying.
@JuanFran Because topological manifolds are way too hard to study.
 
in which respect?
i disagree with any extra structure :P
i mean with smooth manifolds you can use basically calculus to analyze the manifold
this is why they are useful
 
Yes, that's why they are easier than TOP. There you have literally no such tools: there are plenty wild C^0 manifolds.
 
what kind of theorems hold for PL manifolds but not for General topological manifolds
 
2:48 PM
So one looks for categories which are weaker than DIFF but closer to TOP. PL is one such.
 
how do you see this PL structure in the geometry of the manifold
 
What do you mean?
 
so it seems they basically come with a canonical triangulation or what?
 
A little weaker structure than a triangulation, but sure.
Every smooth manifold admits a PL structure. And PL in a sense is easier than C^0 because having a triangulation makes a lot of things easier (e.g., I think a version of the tubular neighborhood theorem holds here) but on the other hand allow "coning" a map, which makes e.g., the Poincare conjecture in high dimensions true, unlike C^\infty.
It's an interesting category which lie in the middle of them so you can use tools from both, hence worth studying.
 
they just seem like a technical tool, basically a weak version of smooth manifolds
 
2:56 PM
Also I think you can do transversality in PL.
@JuanFran They are not a tool, I don't think. They are a category worth studying in themselves.
I just gave you an example of a theorem which is false in the smooth category, but holds here. That's interesting.
I think the 4 dimensional Poincare conjecture in the PL category is open. If you can prove that, that'd be interesting, though weaker than the one in smooth category.
I mean, I can similarly say "schemes seem like a technical tool" because I am not familiar with them :P
That's a nonmathematical comment, IMO.
 
haah
haha
well isn't the theorem you pointed out (tubular nbhd) essentially a technical tool?
 
No.
 
likewise, CW structures or triangulations are essentially technical tools
that are useful for computations
 
What is particularly interesting about tubular neighborhoods in themselves?
 
they just seem like a sort of intermediate "we want more than just smooth manifolds", but can't get all topological manfiolds
basically a compromise
 
3:04 PM
Sure, you can say that. How does that mean they are a technical tool?
 
schemes are not a technical tool, they represent a life style
 
@BalarkaSen Link?
what's the precise statement anyway
 
All in Hatcher.
 
I have a reasonably complete proof that the homological one equals the one in GP
 
The same. A fixed pt exists if Lefschetz number is nonzero.
 
3:05 PM
(modulo a sign)
The only weak point is a tricky tubular neighborhood construction that requires some Riemannian geometry
And the dreadful "take the tubular neighborhood small enough so that X" claim
 
@JuanFran That's not quite all: I think there are a precise characterization of topological manifolds which admit PL-structures.
It's called the Kirby-Seibenmann invariant.
 
good morning
 
thats a nice obstruction theorem
 
All of this is part of the study of smoothability of topological manifolds, where I think the PL category is very very important and may indeed be used as a tool.
Morning, @Samuel.
 
3:12 PM
What do you call a black guy that flies a plane?
 
You don't want to know
And I'd get banned
 
A pilot, you freakin' racist!
 
I don't really think that joke is appropriate.
But maybe it's fine.
 
LOL
 
I should buy Spivak 5.
 
3:14 PM
it is not really a joke kari
joke's on you :P
 
What's the most general form of Bolzano-Weierstrass?
Bounded sequences have convergence subsequence in any metric space?
 
I feel like metric spaces are as far as you can go.
How'd we define a bounded sequence in a topological space?
 
Is what I said true though?
 
No. $(0, 1)$, standard metric.
 
You need closed/compact.
 
3:19 PM
It's so warm in here I'm dying
 
Ok, I have to estimate arc lengths. Back to the drawing board.
 
@0celo7 $\Bbb R^n$ is not compact...
so that'd no be much of a generalization if even true
 
@BalarkaSen Then what do you need?
 
Hell if I know.
 
Let me scurry back into my Riem geo books.
This is a hard problem.
 
3:23 PM
You probably need a property on the metric, not on the metric topology.
 
I'm trying to adopt the usual proof that continuous functions on compact sets are bounded to manifolds, but with a weird topology induced by a metric.
 
pozz
 
@0celo7 That's true regardless of the topology. Continuous functions on compact spaces are always bounded.
 
@BalarkaSen I know, I know.
I will explain when I have the proof :P
By "adapt" I mean "adapt the technique"
 
No ides why you want to do that.
 
3:34 PM
Nomizu-Ozeki theorem.
 
But you need that specific technique?
 
No, it's just an idea as of right now.
 
OK. That's an extremely roundabout way to go about it.
 
How would you do it?
Don't look at the paper
 
Image of a compact set is compact.
 
3:35 PM
Wait what are you proving
I'm trying to show that given any metric, there is a complete metric conformal to it.
 
That continuous functions on compact set is bounded, like you said.
I don't know those words.
 
@BalarkaSen I know how that works, it was a homework problem for analysis
 
I am back.
What are we talking about?
 
@robjohn As you are room owner and maintainer of the rules for this chatroom, I wanted to ask whether posting pictures should not be treated similarly as YouTube and Wikipedia links (rule 7) - for the same reason. (It probably does not matter too much, since most users are probably unaware that rules for this chatroom exists or they simply ignore them.)
 
3:51 PM
hi chat
 
hello
 
4:12 PM
@BalarkaSen a continuous image of a compact set is compact.
 
Hello, everyone :-)
 
@MartinSleziak The idea was to reduce the bandwidth, and increase the number of lines visible, when looking at a chatroom filled with images. That would apply to images as well as links with image content. So applying the same ideas, posting large images should be relegated to links. If the images are tiny or there is no more than one moderate sized image per 10-20 comments, I would say that the impact is minimal. More images or huge images would have a larger impact. Does that seem reasonable?
 
@Balarka yo
 
@robjohn Yes, it does. As I said the reasoning for Youtube/Wikipedia links and oneboxed questions applied in very similar manner to posting pictures.
 
so, is there a list of the exceptions to Vinogradov's theorem anywhere?
 
4:24 PM
@MartinSleziak The image in this comment is pretty huge. It does take up half my screen. It also has little mathematical meaning. If an image has mathematical content, I would be more lenient.
 
In any case, since you maintain the rules, it's basically up to you. :-)
Personally, I would not mind images which are related to mathematical topics.
But perhaps there should be some rule at least about pictures which are included in chat just for fun.
 
i think it's better to link to images in general.
 
I'm image-neutral
 
to the extent that i post images, it's usually so that i can turn them into links
 
@robjohn lol
little ? where is the maths showing in that jiklypuff
maybe he is that happy for resolving rieman hypothesis
 
4:31 PM
(it's kirby, and it's a joke based on Balarka's comment just prior)
 
@robjohn My maps are almost always continuous :)
So I don't bother mentioning that most often. But thanks for catching that, you're right.
 
@MartinSleziak How about this:
8. Avoid posting tall images (more than $\sim\!\!150$ pixels, which is the height of a $4$ line comment), unless the image has mathematical content or is part of an ongoing mathematical discussion.
 
That sounds good.
BTW why on the post with rules I only see "asked" and "viewed", but not "active"? For which posts this happens?
I mean the number of views and the timestamps in the upper right-hand corner.
I am probably starting to be senile. I have asked this before on meta: Why is time of the last activity not shown in some questions?.
The "active" part is only shown for questions with answers.
 
4:47 PM
Rule 8 has been added. I removed the "mathematical content" because of its hazy nature and easy misuse.
 
Thanks for the update, robjohn!
 
@MartinSleziak balpha's answer does not seem to apply to that question, which has answers.
 
@robjohn They are both deleted.
If you meant the post with chatroom rules.
I'll have to leave. See you later!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:16 PM
Find $x$ such that $||Ax||=||A|| $ and where $||A||$=sup{|d|:d $d$ is eigenvalue of of the symmetric matrix $A$.WHy does it suffice to find an eigenvector of the eigenvalue i found?
 
6:42 PM
@ManolisLyviakis $Ax = dx \implies \| Ax \| = \|dx\| = d\|x\| = d = \|A\|$
That makes a bit of sense to me. Hope it does to you to.
 
ohh thats right thats why i need $||x||$ to be 1
 
7:04 PM
I guess so.
 
7:28 PM
Hello!
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Smart move.
 
@Kari sorry, we were having problems with excessive debate of pi vs tau and tons of latex equations.
 
What's there to debate?
 
somebody said to go to the math chat, which the problematic user did. We won't bug you.
@Kari which is better. It wasn't the debate, it was the fact that it was getting ugly.
 
i've never really understood that. regardless of whether tau would be better or not, it's not standard and pi is.
 
That stuff's kinda pointless for me.
 
7:31 PM
And 10 minutes later ColdGolf will say that people in Math.SE chatroom hate maths also
 
There are some things you do because they're conventional and it'd be needlessly confusing to do them otherwise.
 
@LeakyNun I mean, honestly, codegolf.SE hates seeing maths equations, from my experience.
 
What's 'codegolf.SE'?
 
@ColdGolf hates seeing maths equations in LaTeX because not everybody has chatjax
 
it's another stack site
 
7:32 PM

 The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...
 
(Where everyone in their chatroom has migrated here)
 
Thanks, @Semi and @Leaky.
 
@muddyfish I hope they don't spam here in the maths chat.
 
Why does everybody not have chatjax, @Leaky?
 
@Kari because we're not a maths site
 
7:33 PM
not everyone is aware of it, i suppose
 
Also that, I was not aware of it
 
I see. I'm not aware of many other sites, so I was unaware of your being unaware to it.
 
It's listed in the room description, for reference.
I wasn't aware of it until I started using this chat.
 
I may not have been too.
 
How many original mathematical problems would you estimate you created so far? It's addressed to anyone cares to answer.
(say problems that are worth to be published)
I took a break and counted 114 problems this month (however I'm not sure 100% they are absolute unique).
(I'm lessssss productive than before)
@Agawa001 how many math problems did you create so far?
 
7:59 PM
Oh, let's listen to some song by Jasper before creating something new!
 
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