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12:00 AM
yeh
 
And $K$ is a subgroup of $G$ and $HK$, yes?
 
yeah
I understand that but the part I don't get is how come
 
So: $\dfrac{|G|}{|K|} = n\cdot\dfrac{|HK|}{|K|}$
And that says: $p = [G:K] = \dfrac{|G|}{|K|} = n\cdot\dfrac{|HK|}{|K|} = n\cdot [HK:K]$
 
oh ok I see now
ok makes sense thank you
 
So the INDEX of $K$ in $HK$ is either 1, or p.
 
12:03 AM
yes I can see the rest
 
if it's 1, then n = p, if it's p, then n=1.
If n= 1, then $G = HK$. If n = p, then $[HK:K] = \dfrac{|HK|}{|K|} = \dfrac{|H|}{|H \cap K|}$
which clearly shows $H \cap K = H$, that is, $H \subseteq K$.
 
can anyone explain what it means to put a matrix into a polynomial?
for instance when people talk about how P(A) = 0
i don't know how you put a matrix as an argument to an equation or polynomial
 
quod erat demonstrandum
 
thank you @DavidWheeler that is nice
f(x) = x^2 + 3x then f(A) = A^2 + 3*A
 
12:08 AM
@KaliMa I will give you an example. Suppose $p(x) = x^2 + 2$, and $A = \begin{bmatrix}2&3\\0&1\end{bmatrix}$
 
then p(A) = $A^2$ + 2I
where I $\in M_{2x2}$
 
so constants are treated as identity matrices?
 
so characteristic polynomial is one for which f(A) = 0?
 
Then $p(A) = A^2 + 2I = \begin{bmatrix}4&9\\0&1\end{bmatrix} + \begin{bmatrix}2&0\\0&2\end{bmatrix} = \begin{bmatrix}6&9\\0&3\end{bmatrix}$
 
12:10 AM
yeah I remember some thoerem I took last semester
about this
in matrix analysis
about the which exactly which A satisfies f(A) = 0
 
@KaliMa No the characteristic polynomial has a SPECIAL formula
which is: $\det(xI - A)$.
 
yeh now I remember
cayley hamilton theorem
 
what makes the characteristic polynomial so special?
 
many applications
diagonalizations is one for example
if you have for example n eigen vectors then your matrix is diagonalizable
 
For example, if $A = \begin{bmatrix}2&3\\0&1\end{bmatrix}$ then the characteristic polynomial of $A$ is: $ \begin{vmatrix}x-2&-3\\0&x-1\end{vmatrix} = (x - 2)(x - 1)$.
 
12:13 AM
I know that it is equal to det ( xI - A )
problem is I have a very large matrix, computing det() takes a long time
trying to find other ways to get the polynomial so i can do fast exponentiation
 
What size is your matrix?
 
3000x3000 exactly
 
my suggestion: do an QR factorization
 
my matrix has a certain pattern, not sure if i can take advantage of it somehow
20% of the rows have a couple hundred values each, every other row though, has only one 1
(not on the diagonals though)
 
if you have rows with just 1's, put them last, and keep the 1's moving to the right.
 
12:18 AM
?
 
Swapping rows just swaps the sign of a determinant
 
oh yes, they are already last
bottom 80% only one 1 per row
is QR still the way to go here?
 
If the last 80% have EXACTLY one 1 per row, you should be able to re-arrange the rows to get a matrix in block form like so: $M = \begin{bmatrix}A&B\\0&I\end{bmatrix}$
 
it's one per row but not necessarily one per column so I don't think it can be rearranged into a perfect identity matrix (not a diagonal)
 
If you have a matrix with two identical rows its determinant is 0
 
12:24 AM
the rows aren't identical
 
ANY two identical rows, not ALL
 
none are identical
oh i mean i understand what you mean
but when doing the characteristic polynomial
it's not just det()
it's det(x*I-A)
 
Hmm...then what you want is something like JNF
In other words, a similarity transform to turn your matrix into $PAP^{-1}$.
 
but doesn't that still take a very long time
O(n^3) operations
n=3000
 
a 3k x 3k matrix is going to take a lot of calculation anyways.
 
12:30 AM
would there be some way to speed it up since 80% of the rows have a 1?
and what would i transform it to?
 
If you could put it into Jordan normal form, the calculation of the char. poly, would be easy.
 
why easy?
 
But to do that, you'd probably have to solve for the eigenvalues anyways.
Suppose your original matrix is $A$. if you find a matrix $P$ so that $PAP^{-1} = J$, where $J$ is in JNF, then:
$\det(xI - A) = \det(xI - P^{-1}JP) = \det(P^{-1}(xI)P - P^{-1}JP) = \det[P(xI - J)P^{-1}] = \det(P)\det(P^{-1})\det(J) = \det(J)$.
and the determinant of $J$ is just the product of the diagonal.
However, I think to get $J$, you'd have to find all the eigenvalues. That could also be computationally expensive.
 
0
Q: Can we deduce from the equality that $\max \{n-q,q-1\} \in \left[ \frac{n}{2},n \right)$?

evindaSuppose that we have a uniform distributed random variable in $[0,n]$. We have the following: $$\max \{n-q,q-1\}=\left\{\begin{matrix} q-1, q > \lfloor \frac{n}{2}\rfloor & \to q-1> \lceil\frac{n}{2} \rceil \\ n-q, q \leq \lceil \frac{n}{2} \rceil& \to n-q \geq n- \lceil \frac{n}{2}\rceil=\lf...

Do you have an idea?
 
i thought finding the eigenvalues was essentially the same as det(xI-A) anyway
because the solutions to the charpol are the eigenvalues
 
12:41 AM
Not quite. Finding the eigenvalues is the same as finding the MINIMAL polynomial, not quite the same thing.
 
what's the difference?
"This is the characteristic polynomial of A, and the solutions of the characteristic equation, det( A − λ I) = 0, are the eigenvalues of A:"
 
Well, a charactersitic polynomial might be, for example, $(x+1)(x-2)^2$, whereas the minimal polynomial would be $(x+1)(x - 2)$.
Same roots, but not the same polynomial, see?
 
so the minimal divides the characteristic?
 
so if I search for the minimal polynomial, I can get the eigenvalues, and if I can get those, I can convert to JNF, and if I can do that, I can get the charpol?
 
12:53 AM
Well, sort of. With a 3000-size matrix I suspect you'll have some multiplicities.
I mean, I think you can save some effort, by trying to "trap" information in the upper-left, and lower-right, but since I don't know what your matrix MEANS, I don't know specifically, how to tell you to get there.
 
like is there some way I can compute something for both parts and then combine them?
the upper 20% and then the lower 80%?
or do they always have to be taken together
 
1:26 AM
Hola!
Would anyone be able to work on this easy proof?
Prove that

$$\lim_{(x,y) \rightarrow (0,0)}\frac{sin(2 x + 2y) - 2x - 2y}{\sqrt{x^{2} + y^{2}}} = 0.$$
 
2:14 AM
use the fact $|\sin x - x| \le |x|^3$ and parametrise $x = r\cos t , y = r \sin t$ @buddhababe
 
@DavidWheeler i.imgur.com/0x3y17V.jpg Thug life
 
Keepin' it quadratic, yo
 
hahahaha
Damn. I'm still stuck on this proof. I've literally tried 5 different methods.
FML
 
Anyone up for helping me with some linear algebra? Trying to review it for tutoring.
 
2:30 AM
Hello @JMoravitz !! Are you familiar with algorithms??
 
Let $E = \{f \in \mathbb{P}_3 : f(0) = f(1)\}$, where $\mathbb{P}_3$ is the set of all polynomials with $\deg(f) \leq 3$ with coefficients in $\mathbb{R}$.
I have already shown that $E$ is a subspace of $\mathbb{P}_3$.
How do I find a basis for $E$ and $\dim(E)$?
Here's what I recall:
A basis for some vector space $V$ is a set of vectors in $V$ such that the vectors span $V$ and are linearly independent.
Now do I remember anything beyond that? Other than really basic standard bases, nothing really.
 
@JMoravitz My question is the following:
0
Q: Greedy choice property

Mary StarThere are two versions of the Knapsack problem, the integer and the fractional one. The difference between the integer and the fractional version of the Knapsack problem is the following: At the integer version we want to pick each item either fully or we don't pick it. At the fractional version...

 
@Clarinetist A common basis for $\mathbb{P}_3$ is $\{1,x,x^2,x^3\}$. You have also that $f(0)=f(1)$ for all $f\in E$. So, for $f(x) = a + bx + cx^2 + dx^3$, you have $f(0) = a = f(1) = a + b + c + d$ and so $b+c+d = 0$
@MaryStar I'm not very familiar with the problem you are working on, sorry
@Clarinetist so, $a$ is free to be whatever. If we allow $b$ and $c$ to be free, then you have that $d$ will be forced to be $d=-b-c$
@Clarinetist To write out a basis, it helps to write each basis element involving only a single free variable wherever it appears. As such, one choice of basis for $E$ could be $\{1, x - x^3, x^2 - x^3\}$
it might help as well to think of it as $\begin{bmatrix} 1 \\ 0 \\ 0 \\ 0\end{bmatrix},\begin{bmatrix} 0 \\ 1 \\ 0 \\ -1\end{bmatrix}$, etc...
 
3:09 AM
anyone know how to do polynomial long division modulo p?
 
same as regular polynomial long division, just with "arithmetic mod p"
 
Soooooo, $A,B$ both closed in $\Bbb C$ means $A\cup B$ is closed, I have been told the proof is two lines long 100% rigorous, wut
 
it doesn't appear to be that simple though
 
why not?
 
i.e. coefficients and determining what they need to be on the top line
 
3:11 AM
you just need to know the multiplicative inverses of things
 
so for example if i am trying to solve f(x) divided by g(x), all mod p, each polynomial has some leading coefficients mod p as well
how do i know what the coefficient is in the result?
say 2384923492343x^4 + 32042342394x divided by 11111111x + 3423 all mod p (making up random numbers here)
in practice i'd actually only have 2384923492343 mod p and 11111111 mod p
to work with on the first step
so i'd have to determine how many times 11111111 mod p "goes into" 2384923492343 mod p
 
right, and what you need is $(11111111)^{-1}(2384923492343)$
to find that, you use the extended euclidean algorithm for gcd
 
wow how did I miss that
ok, going to try this again -- thank you!
 
I imagine this is the case, but does $\overline{A}\cup \overline{B} = \overline{A\cup B}$?
Where overline is the closure of the set
 
for a finite union, yes.
 
3:19 AM
I can say this can't I to prove that $A,B\in\Bbb C$ both non-empty and closed, implies that $A\cup B$ is closed.
Assume that $A\cup B$ is not closed, then there is some limit point of $p$ not in $A\cup B$ that is in $\overline{A}$ or $\overline{B}$
 
the finite union of closed sets is closed.
 
But $A=\overline A$, $B=\overline B$ implies that $p\in A\cup B$
Hence constradiciton
Is that good?
 
@Incurrence Hey Candygirl16
 
And it's two lines, so that seems like what I am expected to do perhaps
@DiscipleofBarney How are you?
 
it's not a deep result-the proof shouldn't be complicated.
 
3:23 AM
@DavidWheeler I get it in metric spaces
So that proof above works?
 
@Incurrence I am good. How about you?
 
@Dis Very tired, so many assignments at the one time
 
@Incurrence Don't see a problem.
 
@Incurrence = @Committingtoachallenge?
 
@BalarkaSen Yep
 
3:27 AM
@Incurrence=Candygirl16 @BalarkaSen
 
Ignore Barney
He has troll mode set to max
Every time I step into the room
 
@Incurrence How would you know if a limit point of $A \cup B$ is not a limit point of $A$ or $B$ at all?
 
Haha, Hopefully you get some good sleep. @Incurrence (You got to admit the coincidence is hilarious)
 
Oh, so YOU'RE the infamous Candygirl16? Heard about that. Rockin'
 
@BalarkaSen I can't parse this as it is written(due to being tired), but a limit point of $A\cup B$ must be a limit point of $A$ or of $B$ right?
 
3:29 AM
@BalarkaSen how can a point be near $A \cup B$ but not near $A$ and not near $B$?
 
@Incurrence I will quit tolling you
 
I am trying to nitpick -- the proof is not yet rigorous enough.
 
@Dis Hahahaha I didn't care at all, I find it amusing, carrry on :)
@BalarkaSen :'(
@BalarkaSen I'll write it in the sandbox now
 
@Incurrence Okay, maybe it will be relentless trolling, who knows
 
@Incurrence Depending on the definition of a limit point, that might or might not be just a single line.
 
3:30 AM
I am so happy
my algebra assignment got delayed 1 week
now I get to worry less
 
@DiscipleofBarney Troll one day on and one day off, and occassionally just do two days so I never know
 
Go and enumerate groups of order 12, @Karim :P
 
[if you want, you should do it. otherwise, don't bother]
It should brush up your sylow theory.
 
@BalarkaSen So what is there to hate about this proof?
0
A: Sandbox for drafts of long, complex posts

anonLet $A$ and $B$ be nonempty and closed in $\Bbb C$. Assume $A\cup B$ is not open, then there is a limit point $p$, not in $A\cup B$, that must be in $\overline{A}$ or $\overline{B}$, which means that $$p\in\overline{A}\cup \overline{B}$$, but $A$ and $B$ are closed and hence $A=\overline{A}$ an...

E.g. where is it non-rigorous?
Maybe just edit it with a \color{red}{blahblahhhhhhhhh} field?
 
3:34 AM
yeah
I am doing it atm @BalarkaSen
yeh the more excerises one do the more better one gets accustomed to algebra and understand it more
@BalarkaSen will you be here in the summer?
I mean around in the chat?
 
Right. This exercise will be a bit hard though, but not impossible.
 
@Incurrence mathb.in is a website that works for drafting up posts online and sharing them outside of the sandbox.
 
@KarimMansour If I can manage.
 
good I am planning to finish dummit over the summer and read some algebra advanced reading so it would be cool to discuss with you aswell over the summer.
 
@Incurrence "a limit point $p$ not in $A \cup B$ must be in $\overline{A}$ or $\overline{B}$" -- that part
you should prove it
 
3:38 AM
Ok will do, thanks
Was that the only part?
 
mhm
@KarimMansour By finishing Dummit, you mean finishing everything in Dummit-Foote or just the group theory part?
 
Finish most of it
not only group theory
 
@BalarkaSen Is this equivalent to proving that $\overline{A}\cup \overline{B} = \overline{A\cup B}$?
 
I am only taking 1 class over the summer
 
does it make sense to represent a fraction mod p?
 
3:40 AM
so I have alot of time
 
I see. Well, I've only studied more or less what requires to understand Galois theory, so I doubt I would be helpful with the other chapters. I do look forward to study a bit homological algebra and group cohomology from Dummit-Foote though.
@Incurrence Yes.
 
like if I have 2/3x that is normally represented as a float, but now since I am working mod p, I have (2 * x * (inverse of 3 mod p)) mod p, does this make sense?
 
It does, yes
 
Okay, time to go. Gotta run.
 
3:42 AM
For example, if $p = 5$, then $2\ast(3)^{-1} = 4$
You can check this, since 4*3 = 2 (mod 5)
(one would expect that "2/3" times 3 would be 2).
 
how come do we have
 
@BalarkaSen Wait before you leave, is this proof going to be easy?
Wait the part you want me to fix is the proof itself...
 
how come do we have [G: C(A)] <= [G: Z(G)] = n
how come?
 
Because $Z(G) \leq C(A)$
 
oh I see
 
3:47 AM
If an element commutes with ALL of $G$, it certainly commutes with all of $A$.
 
because then we will have |G| = |Z(G)| [G: Z(G)] and G = |C(a)| [G : C(a)] since we have |Z(G)| < |C(a)| then we must have that
yeh
you know
I was never able to visualize why is the centralizer bigger than the center
it seems counter intuitive
I mean the elements that commute with all the group G shouldn't it be bigger than elements who only commute with 1 element.
 
It's "hard" for things to get into the center, they have more hurdles to jump.
For example, take a non-abelian group $G$, with $a,b \in G$ such that $ab \neq ba$.
Clearly, neither $a$ nor $b$ is in $Z(G)$, but $a$ commutes with all powers of $a$, so if $A = \langle a\rangle$, then $a \in C(A)$.
 
For a more specific example: $Z(S_3) = \{e\}$.
But if $A = \{e,(1\ 2\ 3),(1\ 3\ 2)\}$, then $C(A) = A$, which is "bigger" than the center.
 
oh I see
I see in general we have center is all elements that commute with all the group which should be smaller than if we take some subset
and the smaller subset that we have the bigger the elements
 
3:55 AM
right, the more elements we have to commute with, the "more chances to fail" we get.
 
4:45 AM
@Semiclassical Can you help me with proving that $A,B$ closed non-empty in $\Bbb C$ means $A\cup B$ is closed?
Can a closed set and an open set under union where both are nonempty be closed?
Yes take $|z|\lt 1$ and $|z|\leq 1$ and put them into union, open closed = closed
 
5:07 AM
So a professor teaches his class the Mean Value Theorem using an unusual method. Later, another teacher asks him, "Why did you prove the Mean Value Theorem in such a weird way?" He replies, "That, my friend, is how I Rolle."
 
hahha
 
@Incurrence: Define closed.
 
One math theorem punches another. The second theorem says, "why did you do that?" The first replies, "I'm the mean value theorem".
 
5:24 AM
@DavidWheeler I have a question given any equivalence relation on a set can we always define a map between the classes of each?
I am just thinking in terms of for example the way we did it for cosets and conjugacy classes
 
what do you mean: "between the classes"?
 
classes of equivalence relation to a bijection between them
like we did for example by out map f : S --> T by the rule f(Cx) = $x^{-1}ax$
 
What is S, and what is T?
 
S is the set of distinct right cosets of C in G and T is the conjugacy class of a in G.
 
What is C?
 
5:37 AM
C(a)
centralizer of a
C(a) = {$g \in G$ | ga = ag}
 
You guys are still up? No sleep, no sleep.
 
sleep is for the weak
 
What determines if an operation is well-defined or not....?
 
oh i see
 
@KarimMansour That's what I say until I accidentally fall asleep for 16 hours.
 
5:41 AM
f(x) = y and f(x) = b then y = b
 
@KarimMansour the problem is, subgroup cosets have a "regularity" to them that "plain jane" equivalence relations do not have to possess.
 
yeah I do same thing @Howcan
 
@meer2kat that depends on context
 
for example in my question we must see if Cx = Cy then f(Cx) = f(Cy)
 
i'm trying to show that modulo multiplication is well-defined. i'm looking at the proof but don't understand what it means by welldefined
 
5:42 AM
can you show us the question
oh I see @DavidWheeler
how come we can't do this with arbitraily equivalence relation
hm
 
Hi @meer2kat
 
6:05 AM
@meer2kat What you need to show is: if $a = a'$ mod $n$, and $b = b'$ mod $n$, that: $ab = a'b'$ mod $n$
Here's why: the goal of multiplication mod $n$, is to set: $(a\text{ (mod }n))(b\text{ (mod }n)) = ab\text{ (mod }n)$.
But $a$ mod $n$ isn't "a single number", it's an entire equivalence class of numbers.
And we need to ensure that our calculation doesn't depend on "which" representative $a$ we pick.
But solely on the equivalence class.
So, if we're working mod 5, for example, we might have 4*3 = 2. But if we chose 14, and -7 instead, we should get something "equivalent" to 2 mod 5, when we multiply.
Which we do, we get -98, which is -100 + 2 = 2 mod 5.
 
anyone here know how to prove continuity in real analysis?
 
The idea is that ANYTHING in the equivalence class of a, times ANYTHING in the equivalence class of b, is in the equivalence class of ab.
 
When you read a book and feel it's a bit tough and even painful... and you just start staring at the page for 20 minutes without thinking.... what would you do?
 
rest, and contemplate.
 
agrree
 
6:19 AM
yeh
@DavidWheeler you know I am currently reading the proof of cauchy's theorem for abelian groups I mean it is under stable but how come did cauchy see the intuition of that theorem I guess he must have tried alot of examples
or got some insight
 
@YilinWang Usually one has the basic "metric" criterion: for any $\epsilon > 0$ there is a $\delta$-ball $B_{\delta}(a)$ such that $f(B_{\delta}(a)) \subset B_{\epsilon}(f(a))$.
 
@DavidWheeler got u
 
Sometimes one shows that for any sequence $x \to a$ we have $f(x) \to f(a)$.
A third formulation is that the pre-image of any $\epsilon$-ball around $f(a)$ is open.
(with $a$ an interior point)
 
@KarimMansour Cauchy's is just the reverse of Langrange's theorem, i guess that's possibly how Cauch conjectured it, afterwards the proof is found.
 
Cauchy calculated a lot of matrix groups
 
6:26 AM
yeh
 
Most of the work he did with groups was with matrix groups, the purely algebraic form we study today was largely due to Cayley, I believe.
The "cyclic version" of Cauchy's theorem was probably known to Euler, certainly to Gauss.
Cyclic version: If $G$ is a finite cyclic group, and $d$ divides the order of $G$, then $G$ has an element of order $d$.
When studying abelian groups, the Chinese Remainder Theorem applies, so it's natural to look at pair-wise co-prime divisors.
Cauchy may have "suspected" the Sylow theorems, but he could prove the Cauchy theorem.
I read somewhere that Galois knew Cauchy's Theorem, but never proved it.
 
What was the quick way to derive some trig identities via Euler's formula?
 
6:45 AM
$(e^{i\theta})^2 = (\cos\theta + i\sin\theta)^2 = (\cos^2\theta - \sin^2\theta) + i(2\cos\theta\sin\theta)$
$(e^{i\theta})^2 = e^{i2\theta} = \cos 2\theta + i\sin 2\theta$, equating real and imaginary parts gives the double-angle identities
One can do a similar trick with $e^{i(\theta+\phi)}$
 
6:58 AM
Thanks to Galois, so many math were rewritten from an algebra point of view.
 
Greetings
 
@DavidWheeler for this question If G is a not abelian group of order 15, prove that Z(G) = {e}. I proved it using the fact G/Z(G) is cyclic then G must be abelian and using lagrange to rule out 3 and 5.
However can it be proved using class equations ?
I was thinking
I mean from class equation we have |G| = [G: Z(G)] + [G: C($a_1$)] + ... + [G: C($a_r$)]
?
you probably went to sleep :S
 
7:26 AM
Prove that

$$\lim_{(x,y) \rightarrow (0,0)}\frac{sin(2 x + 2y) - 2x - 2y}{\sqrt{x^{2} + y^{2}}} = 0.$$
Help the buddha out?
 
7:36 AM
Nevermind!
But how do you make a vector arrow in share latex? haha
Nevermind! Got it!
 
 
2 hours later…
9:39 AM
I'm fairly certain that the most recent answer of mine is missing for some reason.
 
10:39 AM
Hi @Chris'ssis
 
@JasperLoy Hey. How are you today? :-)
 
@Chris'ssis So so. How is your book?
 
@JasperLoy It's in progress, of course, but the problems in it are really really cute, and hard most of them. Not sure how the readers will react.
 
@Chris'ssis The readers will all be geniuses, unlike me.
 
@JasperLoy The idea in the book is to make things clear for anyone interested in those integrals, series and limits. But who says anything about geniuses? Well, we're all just normal people (with some passion).
Because of the lack of sleep I have headache and no power in hands. Maybe I should take a nap, but later, not now.
 
10:58 AM
@Chris'ssis Yes, I think you should sleep.
 
@JasperLoy There is too much work to do ...
 
@Chris'ssis What kind of work? Accounting?
 
@JasperLoy I finished that one. I'm referring to the work to my book.
 
11:38 AM
Good day folks
I recently aksed a question here in chat about integrating some function multiplied by a cosine over a period
I've been told that if that function was convex, the integral is positive
Now I'm a little bit confused
Was it a mistake actually?
I mean ...
if f(x) is convex
does this really hold?
@Chris's sis I think it was you :) Could it be?
 

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