The Bridge

Wipqozn

5:00 PM

@badp I'm not that familiar with Java, but could the problem be your calling java.library.path before setting it?

Lazers

0

Q: Control view direction with keyboard without mouse

is it possible to map mouse moves to the keyboard e.g. Keypad 4 to look left and so on? I saw a skse script but i can find via google. any suggestions are welcome. Thanks jpse

badp

oh my fucking god I remember making a copy of the final version of my fucking project, because I remember saying to myself "okay, now that I have my copy I can now fuck with it for presentation purposes"

now I can't find it

agent86

some of these are somewhat NSFW, but there's a decent amount that are funny.

user15026

@agent86 My first thought was "And what would that do?" :)

agent86

@AshleyNunn I think destroy your hands. Oh, you meant in the game.

user15026

5:14 PM

@agent86 :)

Powerlord

5:25 PM

Bacon!

@agent86 I don't plan to run again.

(I didn't run last time either)

Also, is it election time again?

agent86

@Powerlord gotcha. and yes.

Ullallulloo

@Powerlord Yes, for two days.

Ronan Forman

yesterday, by Raven Dreamer

The Gaming 2012 community moderator election is underway — nominations now being accepted.

No.

FallenAngelEyes

@agent86 It does

badp

@AshleyNunn Make me envious

Tristan

5:40 PM

@agent86 I think the #1 was my favorite. <.<

user15026

@badp Hahaha me too quite frankly

user15026

@Tristan Oh, that one was just awesome. Except for the exploding. :(

Tristan

@AshleyNunn As long as it was only Amy Pond on board, I'm okay with the exploding.

badp

user15026

@Tristan Aw, I like Amy! I would rather it be Martha.

badp

5:41 PM

Yes, that's the track @Raven used IIRC

Ronan Forman

Hey SWTOR fans!

Tristan

@AshleyNunn You take that back right now! Martha was my favorite companion. =( I hate Amy because suddenly the show's no longer about the Doctor and his companion. It's about Amy and her companion (the Doctor).

Ronan Forman

That has the best line of all Yahtzee reviews ever.

user15026

@Tristan I just found her a little dry. Although I do agree with you about Amy taking a lot of the focus. I do have a ridiculous soft spot for Rose, though.

agent86

@Tristan Amy FTW. I'm sad to see her go. She's one of the better actresses they've had as a companion.

user15026

5:43 PM

@agent86 Agreed.

Ronan Forman

@agent86 What episode are you on?

agent86

Rory's OK, he's gotten better as the seasons have progressed

@RonanForman I'm caught up with the latest

Ronan Forman

She hasn't gone yet..

agent86

they've announced she's leaving though

her and rory both are going away. matt smith is sticking around for a while longer though

user15026

@agent86 Yeah, I just hope it is awesomely done.

Tristan

5:48 PM

@AshleyNunn I don't care how awesome it is, as long as she's gone. >.> Just sayin'...

user15026

@Tristan You're such a Negative Nancy.

Tristan

@RonanForman Shmillenium shmalcon.

Ullallulloo

@Tristan Thousand-year albatross

Tristan

@AshleyNunn I'm not a Negative Nancy. I just hate Amy. I'd rather watch four seasons of Donna than two more seasons of Amy. I say bring back Harkness.

agent86

@AshleyNunn I think it's like the "xth anniversary" of DW, so it's going to be a bigger than average season. I think it's going to be aweeesome

user15026

5:52 PM

@agent86 HURRAY

Lazers

0

Q: How do you unlock special characters in Soul Calibur 5?

Besides the unlockable DLC character Dampierre, there are quite a few "?" selections in the character menu left for additional characters. Who are these characters and how do you unlock them? (Most likely spoilers in the answer, I know)

soul-calibur-5

OrigamiRobot

@Ullallulloo Don't worry my requirement would make me ineligible too.

@Tristan How can you hate Amy?

Tristan

@OrigamiRobot Easy. By not liking her or her stealing the focus of the show. <.<

bwarner

@agent86 I'm not running this time, I've decided that I'm really not up to fighting flags.

OrigamiRobot

@Tristan And you imply that you dislike Donna?

Tristan

6:06 PM

@OrigamiRobot Yes.

OrigamiRobot

@Tristan I don't even know who you are.

agent86

@bwarner fighting flags?

Ronan Forman

People who don't wear headphones and use desktop mics are the worst.

OrigamiRobot

@RonanForman I guess you don't wanna play games with me anymore. :(

bwarner

@agent86 Yah, I've looked at a lot of the flags that I can see as a 10K user and been like "Huh, I have no idea whether this shoud be enforced or not". So I'd rather leave that decision to someone else.

Grace Note

6:09 PM

@agent86 Handling the flag queue and consequently any disputes

agent86

@bwarner @GraceNote, understood.

Ronan Forman

@OrigamiRobot I didn't get huge feedback from you. Maybe it's just that the person I was talking to had their volume all the way up.

bwarner

I hit 10K shortly after nominating for mod last time. It makes me feel like anyone running for mod should either be a mod from another site or a 10K user on some site, just so they have an idea of what they're in for.

Grace Note

Ha. Haha. Hahaha.

Ronan Forman

And I mean all the way, I could hear his game sounds louder than I could hear mine.

bwarner

6:11 PM

Luckily I think that applies to most of our candidates.

@GraceNote Still wouldn't have an idea of what they are in for?

Tristan

@RonanForman I use the built in mic on my laptop. =(

bwarner

I have heard that 10Ks can't even see most of the flags

Grace Note

@bwarner It's more reminiscing what it was like back before we had a pool of users in the Stack Exchange Network that fit that criteria.

Ronan Forman

@Tristan But I though you said you didn't have a mic.

Grace Note

@bwarner 10k users only see pre-baked messages that are not custom.

bwarner

6:13 PM

@GraceNote Yah, obviously saying that you have to be a mod before running for mod seems a bit awkward...

Tristan

@RonanForman Didn't realize I did when we were doing the Terraria thing. But, I have one built into the laptop monitor.

Ronan Forman

@bwarner Awww. crap.

Grace Note

I don't think you need to worry on that end, @Ronan.

Ronan Forman

@GraceNote Why not?

bwarner

@RonanForman You can make a case through your lineage. =)

OrigamiRobot

6:15 PM

@RonanForman Don't worry. I'm with you.

Ronan Forman

@bwarner I'm trying not to, I made one joke and it was more in passing.

Grace Note

@RonanForman You've got very easy access to one of the greatest veterans on the entire network, on not only moderation but the entire system as a whole.

Ronan Forman

So what you're saying is stack exchange is a monarchy now?

Grace Note

I won't joke that you inherit the skills, but fact is, you have help. I remember how he supported you back when you first nominated. "He has help", was what he said. Short, yet very full of energy.

badp

LaTeX. Y U NO SHOW SVG.

Ullallulloo

6:17 PM

@bwarner I dislike that idea too. :x

Grace Note

@RonanForman I don't even now how you got that conclusion.

Ronan Forman

@GraceNote What @bwarner said.

2 mins ago, by bwarner

@RonanForman You can make a case through your lineage. =)

Grace Note

Ah

bwarner

@Ullallulloo Sorry, not trying to call anyone out, just commenting on my personal thoughts and why I'm not running this time.

Ullallulloo

@bwarner :P No worries.

OrigamiRobot

6:22 PM

My nomination is mostly to show my interest. I am outclassed.

BTW do nominees get to vote?

@OrigamiRobot yes

@OrigamiRobot Yes

I assumed so.

On other "Glad I'm not a mod" topics, I'm very unsure whether it is better to address Powerlord's "profile attack", or just let him have his say and not bring undue attention to it.

He's certainly welcome to his opinion, and I know he's coming from the right place, but it feels like it has become more personal than it should be.

agent86

I figured this would come up if I nominated myself. This is part of what I meant when I said that this place has the ability to turn this into a competitive environment.

Stack Exchange

6:27 PM

2

Q: Probability of winning a tournament

I'd like to calculate or approximate the probability that I have to win a tournament where every player has a determined amount of chips. Let's consider a scenario where there are 9 players and I know everyone's number of chips, to calculate my probability of winning I would do: my chips/(tot ch...

probability normal-distribution games

agent86

the other thing I figured would come up is what you commented on. good news is, I knew these were possibilities. bad news is, I've run out of future predictions. Let's hope there's not something else I've failed to plan for :)

badp

@bwarner I was going to give you the generic "users are mostly in control of their user profiles and by policy we moderate them as little as possible" then I read the text

so, about the specific case - it's unfortunate that he decided to kick up this one (important) fuss on his profile page, rather than meta

bwarner

@badp I also feel like referring people to it from agent's nomination post was unnecessarily confrontational

badp

@bwarner he did?

wow, okay.

agent86

it would be better if it was on meta; I could probably respond better there than in comments.

otherwise I'm not bothered.

Grace Note

6:30 PM

Aye, I'd at best tell him to bring it up on Meta. Technically, we don't have the reasoning to clear his profile.

badp

I wish that the user history page would log events for user description changes

agent86

he's brought it up in chat before too, and I've tried to respond as best I could here as well.

badp

@GraceNote yeah

so I for one don't know for how long that bit has been there

FallenAngelEyes

@bwarner Oh wow, that's... uh... hrm. :/

bwarner

@agent86 Yah, I noticed it come up on chat, and I strongly disagreed with the statements he made, but at least it was just a chat message that was quickly gone.

badp

6:33 PM

I agree that simply googling information to answer is a problem, and I've answered a couple questions that way

user15026

@bwarner Yeah, I definitely agree with that

badp

that said, it's a problem with the site, rather than with any one of us

Grace Note

@badp Technically, he does note that the site and the community endorse this practice.

FallenAngelEyes

I feel that it's in poor form not to have brought it up on Meta though.

badp

@GraceNote yes, so bring it up on meta, rather than in a link to somebody's nomination

user15026

6:33 PM

Sometimes, though, being able to google for legit info from legit sources is a very good thing?

user15026

@FallenAngelEyes agreed.

Grace Note

This wouldn't be the first time Powerlord has had a vehement opposition to an election candidate. The only difference here being that he is actually very overt about who it was.

@badp The ultimate result is that he'd have the Meta post and still link to it on the nomination.

I don' t disagree that a Meta post is something that should happen for this. But I'm not entirely surprised about him (or, honestly, any user on any candidate) confronting them directly in the nomination comments. That's entirely what the comments are for.

bwarner

@AshleyNunn Right, in fact I recall a Jeff/Joel post that talks about one of the archtypes for Stack users is the one that doesn't know the answer, but takes the time to search to find it.

OrigamiRobot

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. With patches and updates, a lot of answers are subject to rot, regardless of how well researched.

Ullallulloo

@OrigamiRobot Because if you actually play the game, you'll likely notice and think to update your answer.

user15026

6:36 PM

@bwarner Exactly. That is what I do. I may not know the answer, but I can find it for you, and make sure that it is all sourced check my facts with two or three sources

user15026

@Ullallulloo Not necessarily.

Ullallulloo

@AshleyNunn I didn't say necessarily, but it is pretty likely.

user15026

@Ullallulloo I suppose. It does depend on how many questions you ask/answer - I know even for things I play and love and know a lot about and keep track of, I tend to forget that I asked/answered a question on it already.

OrigamiRobot

@Ullallulloo I missed the part where he was specifically referring to people who Google answers to games they don't play.

user15026

Although, if this becomes a binding thing, I probably will stop being able to participate in the site.

user15026

6:39 PM

Although, I don't see how googling a well researched answer is any different than, say, doing similar research to answer a literature question.

Ullallulloo

@AshleyNunn People don't often update their books to change things by much.

user15026

@Ullallulloo Fair enough. But there are topics that change rapidly that do get questions asked and answered and researched

user15026

but I concede my point.

OrigamiRobot

I think this problem is more a side effect of the First Answer Wins phenomenon

Lazers

1

Q: How do I activate “The Doctor Who Cloned Me” DLC in Duke Nukem Forever in Steam?

I bought the add-on DLC, and Steam shows me that I have it. But I don’t see any way to actually play the damn thing. My Library in Steam only shows the main DNF game, and once I launch it, it still has the regular game stuff only. What do I need to do to play the extra content?

steam duke-nukem-forever

user15026

6:42 PM

@OrigamiRobot Yeah - once there is an answer (moreso with an accepted answer), there is very few times that anyone seems to challenge it

bwarner

@OrigamiRobot Agreed. While it is certainly possible to have a better answer win for some questions, simple questions reward fast answers.

agent86

I could comment, but it seems likely that this will be a meta question, and I'd rather make a well-reasoned and thorough argument on the subject that covers all the aspects of it

Ian Pugsley

@bwarner @OrigamiRobot I think it's also an issue of people not going back and adding or revising answers when things change

OrigamiRobot

So the question becomes, who does the burden of responsibility fall on to keep answers relevant?

bwarner

But at the end of the day, there's an answer, and its correct (or if its not, it should get downvoted and someone should add the correct answer).

Ian Pugsley

6:45 PM

@OrigamiRobot you say burden; someone else could say opportunity to improve the site and get reputation

Fabian

Finding the answer somewhere else is no problem IMHO, as long as you're putting some effort into it and use reliable sources. Blind copy-paste from the first result you find is problematic, putting some effort into the search and validating the answer from a reasonably reliable source is good.

bwarner

@OrigamiRobot For the games I'm knowledgable about, I try to keep ALL the answers up to date, whether they are mine or not. Its pretty easy to read the patch notes, search for questions on affected topics, and update them.

@Fabian So at the end of the day, searching isn't the issue. Bad answers are the issue. And they should be dealt with the way we always deal with bad answers. But it certainly doesn't seem to be an epidemic that is threatening to destroy the site.

Fabian

And answers that try to find out the solution by experimenting in game and posting the experiment seem to do very well as far as I observed, as they should. If you know the game well and the part that the question is about, you can still outperform wiki answers even if you're a bit later.

badp

@Ullallulloo I wish it worked like that

user15026

@Fabian This is so very true.

bwarner

6:47 PM

@Fabian Especially if you use funny comics.

badp

I can't remember each and every single one of my 286 answers

bwarner

Just kidding.

badp

I don't know how many of those are ancient Minecraft answers

I don't know how many of those are hopelessly out of date

Grace Note

Oh, how I enjoy playing static, non-changing games where my answers remain valid...

bwarner

@badp All it takes is one motivated user who wants to earn some rep to fix that. It doesn't have to be you.

user15026

6:49 PM

@badp That is my biggest thing. I have over 100 answers. I cannot possibly remember each and every one. Although I do try to avoid things that do change - most of my answers concern console releases or the like that never change

badp

@bwarner How would that user find the question to begin with?

Ronan Forman

Can I get some upvotes over here?

2

A: No mobile site for the election

Elections may eventually get a mobile theme, however it's fairly low on the priority list. Vote this up to show your support.

Ian Pugsley

@badp minecraft, sort by age?

user15026

@bwarner Exactly!

Fabian

26

A: Why are mammoths so much harder to kill than dragons?

Enemies in Skyrim are, within certain bounds, adjusted to your own level. So the first dragons you meet will likely be pretty low level, as you're probably still at a very early level yourself. The giants are one of the enemies that are present very early, but they don't adjust down to your ear...

agent86

6:50 PM

@RonanForman done. I frequently browse the SE network on my crappy, crappy phone.

Ronan Forman

He gets rep for that doesn't he.

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley It is a burden to actively do this.

Ullallulloo

@badp tbh, when I notice a decent size change in Minecraft, I usually do a search for out-dated answers on it.

Fabian

I outpaced a comic answer with a serious answer even though I started later (contradicting all existing preconceptions about voting behaviour)

Juan Manuel

@RonanForman meh

bwarner

6:50 PM

@badp Likely because they searched for the question, read your answer, and discovered it was wrong.

badp

There are two kinds of people:
- Those who google for the question, and they don't have an answer to contribute. Their not having an answer is the whole point of why they've googled to begin with
- Those who know the answer, and thus don't feel the urge to see if we have a question for his answer.

OrigamiRobot

@bwarner But the asker has to have some level of involvement to change an accepted answer that is outdated.

bwarner

But the first kind tries your answer, realizes its wrong, and now has the opportunity to participate in the site by fixing it.

badp

@bwarner When that happens, we can get either one of 1) nothing, 2) a "not helpful" anonymous vote or 3) a comment as an answer the likes of which I've pwned a lot

bwarner

@OrigamiRobot Sure, but you can get rep even if your new answer isn't accepted.

@badp Probably true for "drive by" users, but not ones that are already actively involved in the site.

badp

6:53 PM

@bwarner Drive by users are 99% of our users, and 100% of the eyes on our older questions

OrigamiRobot

@bwarner But it starts at the bottom. They start at a disadvantage.

Grace Note

Speaking from experience, not being first is not nearly as much of a disadvantage as everyone makes it out to be.

OrigamiRobot

Maybe there should be a flag for outdated answers?

user15026

@GraceNote Agreed.

Ian Pugsley

@OrigamiRobot an accepted answer implies nothing beyond "this answer helped the asker" - votes indicate usefulness to the community overall

user15026

6:54 PM

@OrigamiRobot That might work. Like an outdated information flag?

Ian Pugsley

@OrigamiRobot an answer that is wrong/bad should not get flagged - what would you propose the mods do about it?

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley Its all about visibility.

Ullallulloo

@IanPugsley They do have those banner things.

Ian Pugsley

it should probably get brought up on the meta, however - that would encourage users to downvote and leave a better answer

user15026

@IanPugsley Similar to a suggested edit?

Fabian

6:55 PM

@GraceNote For old questions it often is, if you don't throw a bounty on them. Though I agree that you can easily outweigh the time factor by writing a far better answer as long as the question is still reasonably hot

Grace Note

@Fabian You can even recover things that are 3+ months old with an excellent answer. That's why we have a bump function.

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley Dont put it on the mods. There could be a system similar to bounty where questions flagged as outdated live.

However, that raises the question of how they get off that list.

Ian Pugsley

@OrigamiRobot that's quite the feature request you're talking about

Ullallulloo

@OrigamiRobot Or just start a bounty. It is one of the reasons.

Ian Pugsley

@OrigamiRobot I fail to see how that would be any different from bounties and meta questions, really

Fabian

6:57 PM

@GraceNote In my experience the one-time bump isn't enough in many cases, you need a certain amount of attention on the question, especially if there are already a lot of answers so that many people don't scroll as far as your answer. It can work if there are only 1-2 short answers and your new one is immediately visible

Grace Note

@Fabian We have wildly different experiences, it seems. I'm not sure whether yours is unluck or mine is luck.

Ullallulloo

9

A: Are sheep permanently dyed?

This answer is outdated as of the Minecraft 1.1 Patch No. Because sheep cannot regrow their fur, they have no chance of being "permanently dyed."

As long as the person who edits knows what they're talking about, we could encourage that.

OrigamiRobot

@IanPugsley Having to lose rep to keep the site up to date doesn't sound preferable.

badp

speaking of which

0

Q: Allow filtering the low rep vote lists by user

While discussing information rot on chat, I argued that really pretty much the only way we have to know if an old answer has effectively rot is by monitoring anonymous feedback, something 10kers can do (SO MSO Gaming etc.). The list however is global, and thus not very useful unless you see your...

feature-request post-feedback

Fabian

@GraceNote Could also be confirmation bias on my part, the last answer of that kind I remember was quite some work and earned me 0 rep on Skeptics.

Transcript for