The Pitstop

1:00 AM

@LynnCrumbling Man on man. I have never seen two (or one) peoples with SO many GM Body codes on so many vehicles. I'm still thinking somebody is trusting a $8 bluetooth OBDII reader and a free cellphone app.

Zaid

7:50 AM

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 what's up? Could you walk us through what you've tried?

Zaid

8:13 AM

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 ping me when you're awake

Robert S. Barnes

11:35 AM

Super cool: youtube.com/watch?v=FJXgKY2O4po

camless engine

Freevalve Update Camless Engine -- /INSIDE KOENIGSEGG

►

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

12:04 PM

@RobertS.Barnes - Yes it is absolutely cool.

@Zaid - I'm here, sir.

@SteveRacer - I think I tend to agree with you on this.

Zaid

12:18 PM

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 ok give me 10 minutes or so to reach home. Hopefully I can help you see something you may have missed

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Zaid - No worries. I'm getting breakfast, anyway.

Zaid

Lol I need to have lunch as well

Shall we say 30 mins from now?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

NO NOW@!@

:-)

anonymous2

12:38 PM

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 Good morning!

:)

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@anonymous2 - GM!

anonymous2

Been out of it for a bit. Sorry!

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

No worries.

anonymous2

De-snapping maple taps.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I'm out of it ... all the time.

anonymous2

12:39 PM

Lol.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Pulling the plugs?

anonymous2

Pulling them out of their summer protective casings.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Sounds like fun ... maybe?

anonymous2

That's when they're tapped.

In the spring, we take the black piece that's in the tree, spray alcohol into it, and plug it into the black thing you see on the main line.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Not your grandfather's tap, eh?

anonymous2

12:41 PM

Nope. :)

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

It's probably a lot cleaner as well as being better for the tree overall.

anonymous2

Definitely.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Sorry, just had a huge paradigm shift, lol!

anonymous2

Lol. It's definitely very different these days. :)

Anyhow, in the fall we have to run the entire woods, pulling branches and trees off the lines (sometimes trees a couple feet in diameter) and pulling the taps out of their sockets to make sure they are flowing correctly and to prepare them for tapping in February.

*Finished unloading...*
What's been keeping you busy?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@anonymous2 - Preparation is everything.

anonymous2

12:44 PM

Yes, sir.

And the less work you have to do at -30 degrees, the better.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

The Impreza is not starting, so it has been keeping me busy trying to figure it out.

anonymous2

Electrical?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

No clue ... I'm sure electricity has something to do with the issue.

anonymous2

I have seen a couple discussions between you and @Zaid on the topic, I believe.

Zaid

@anonymous2 but this is new

anonymous2

12:51 PM

Ah, ok.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Seems he would like to talk about it and maybe help ... which I'm always eternally grateful for. I haven't really bothered my brethren here because diagnosing this over the internet is going to be very tough.

Zaid

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 just finishing up here

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

No worries ... take your time.

Zaid

Right, here I am

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

yup ...

No clue where to start, lol.

Zaid

12:57 PM

Could you recap what you are facing issues with?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

No start.

Zaid

Cranks?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

crank-but-no-start

one second

Zaid

Ok

Remember Matt from Schrodingers Box on YouTube? He has a nifty list for this

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Zaid

12:59 PM

FASTTEC

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Fuel, Air, ???

Zaid

Fuel. Air. Spark. Timing (Crank). Timing (Cam). Exhaust. Compression.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I'm sure the problem lies within the wiring somewhere.

The problem is there isn't any spark at the plug (as far as I can tell).

Zaid

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 That would eliminate Exhaust and Compression?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

The coils (they are coil on ignition).

anonymous2

1:00 PM

Engine harness & ECU, while you're at it

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@anonymous2 - not following what you're asking.

eliminating?

anonymous2

Checking. Just from Google, so not very authoritative.

Zaid

...

Did you confirm power to the coils?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

So, the fuel pump is running. I can hear it when I turn the key.
Air ... no obstructions, other than the throttle body plates.
Spark ... none.
Timing (crank) ... sensor checked as responsive. Timing belt correctly in place.
Timing (cam) ... sensor checked as responsive.
Exhaust ... open headers, but there.
Compression ... it was there when I pulled the engine from the SVX, no reason for it to have disappeared since.

There is gas in the tank as well.

@Zaid - I'm not sure how I can positively test power to the coils.

Zaid

An inline tester won't help here?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

1:05 PM

The coils are powered and the ECU provides the ground for them. I found power through the leads coming from the coils to the ECU when back probing.

@Zaid - might? If I had an inline tester. I don't have a noid or anything I can use to place in line on them.

I put the O2s on their pigtails, even though they aren't in the exhaust. This was done to ensure even if it's a bad reading, it isn't the cause of it not firing.

I wasn't sure if not having O2's would keep it from firing.

Zaid

Is the control circuitry on the positive side or negative side?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I'm not sure?

Woops! Sorry, that's the Impreza one.

One second.

Crud ... I have it somewhere and cannot find it.

Zaid

No worries

Can't you hook up a DMM to see if there is power to the coils during cranking?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I'm not sure where to test the coil at ... I guess I could back probe them directly.

rs25.com/forums/…

Zaid

Yes, that would tell you if the issue is upstream or downstream the point of probing

But I'm a little concerned about how you probe it

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

1:15 PM

I do know the injectors have power as I can pull their harness and check at the plug. I've verified on all of them. The coils are a lot more problematic in this arena.

@Zaid - I'm very concerned about how they get probed, lol.

Zaid

Depending on if it is positive side control or negative side control, there is some potential to cause damage while probing.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

It is negative side control, if I understand what you are saying.

Zaid

If only I could remember the specifics. Check out Matt's channel. He describes this in great detail

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

? Can you link?

Zaid

Let me search

How to Not Fry Your PCM- SBQM Channel Free Video Sample!

►

I hope this has it

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

1:20 PM

give me a minute to watch

or two ;-)

You are going to be sitting for a while waiting on me if I'm going to watch this entire thing.

Zaid

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 you may already know this stuff but I think it's worth reviewing before sticking probes in

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Most of it seems pretty straight forward, but you're most likely correct.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

1:52 PM

@Zaid - Yah, I'm good with what he's saying in the video.

Zaid

2:15 PM

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 could you probe for voltage signal at the coils?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Possibly ... they aren't very accessible, but I'll put it on the list for today.

Zaid

You know, this is going to be like binary search

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I found the following on a Subaru site:

My understanding of what these are supposed to be are the values if I backprobe the connectors at the ECU for this specific applciation (putting the H6 EG33 into the Impreza).

Zaid

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 that should make things easy-ish

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Zaid - You would think ...

Pretty much all of the readings were wonky.

Which really has me baffled.

Zaid

2:19 PM

In what sense? Quality or quantity

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Um ... For instance, on the coils, where I was most worried about things. It says I should be getting a reading of 0.01vdc off of the back probe. I'm getting battery voltage off of them.

Zaid

Ignition on?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

yes

Zaid

How legit is the source of information?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I'm just wondering if I'm reading it right, though.

@Zaid - It seems to be legit.

Zaid

2:23 PM

That's how I would interpret it

Could you check B62 terminal 15 under the same conditions?

(Ignition GND)

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

There's no real explanation of the chart on the website (rs25.com/forums/f128/t146117-how-wiring-eg33-into-your-gc.html)

Zaid

Could you check B62, 15?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Zaid - If you give me a minute ...

... I get a reading of .1vdc

Zaid

Is it 0 with ignition off?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

one sec, lol

I'm wondering if my DVOM is going whacky. I back probed the ECU with the ignition on. At first it was reading .1vdc ... then it was reading 10vdc ... now it's down to .08vdc. If I turn the ignition off, it now reads .03vdc, so there is a change in the reading. ARGH.

B62-15 is a direct from the ECU to ground.

Zaid

2:36 PM

Huh

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

So, the reading I'm getting is power coming through the ECU going to ground.

I've been wondering if I should depin this and put the DVOM inline to create the continuity.

Zaid

In amp mode?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I don't know ... for some reason I think I'm not seeing the forest for the trees, here.

Zaid

Don't you have another DVOM or something?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I've requested to be let onto a Facebook group called "Swapped Six Subarus" or some such. I'm hoping they'll let me on so I can ask some questions.

Zaid

2:39 PM

Because there is a concern that you might have a bad DVOM or bad ground

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Zaid - I wish I did. Wish I could afford a Pfluke.

Zaid

Doesn't have to be Fluke

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

But they are good, lol.

And I keep calling them out wrong. I used to have a commander in the Army who's last name was Pfluke, lol (spelled that way). Messes me up.

Off topic, sorry.

I don't have any real reason to suspect the DVOM.

Zaid

Could you probe another ground terminal to see if it behaves the same?

B62. 14, 24 or 25

And before you scamper off for another test, it might be worth testing another connector like B59, 11, 21 or 22

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Possibly ... I can check continuity to ground as well. Well, B62-24 showed 13vdc yesterday when I was testing ... I'm not so sure it isn't the DVOM acting as the ground and allowing the power to flow through, though.

B59-11 was the same (@ 13vdc or battery voltage)

Zaid

2:44 PM

Why would that be the case? Is you negative connected to some part of the chassis?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Zaid - Absolutely. In the case of the grounds, they all go to a mutual point and ground from there. I connected from this point out to at least there different ground locations. There is a ground running to the engine as well.

Zaid

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 I'd expect grounds to register 0 V

Not 13

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Zaid - That's what I'd expect as well.

Zaid

I think you're onto something then

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

But how is it rectified?

It's completely foreign in how it's behaving to me.

Zaid

2:47 PM

Well you need to find the source

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I guess I could pull the plugs from the ECU and see if there is power then. If there is power, then there must be something it's pulling from within the harness.

Zaid

The electrons are finding a path from positive to negative that is bypassing the expected channels

Right

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

If not, the power itself would be coming the ECU.

Zaid

It'll be a painful process of elimination

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

Beyond painful ... into the ludacris realm. I guess if I want it to run ... argh.

Separate note ... do you have any experience with PC-Based portable digital oscilloscopes?

good/bad/indifferent?

Zaid

2:50 PM

Not beyond what we did at uni through Simulink/Matlab/DAQ systems

LabVIEW

Do you have a particular use case in mind?

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I can't justify buying a full up o-scope at ~$400, but I could possibly buy something like this:

ebay.com/itm/…

Just thinking it would sure be handy in seeing wave forms and such while diagnosing things like this.

Zaid

Yes

But it won't help much in finding your ground short

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

lol ... probably not.

Zaid

Everyone has their own favorite go-to gizmos...

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I don't have gizmos ... just useful tools < cough >

I'm still hungry, lol

Zaid

3:00 PM

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 I hope this lead will point you in the right direction

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 close to dinnertime here

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

@Zaid - Enjoy your dinner, kind sir.

I appreciate your time.

Zaid

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 glad I could help

DucatiKiller

6:35 PM

@Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2 I have my dad's old oscilloscope from the '60's that use. Love that thing.

Pᴀᴜʟsᴛᴇʀ2

I would love to get a regular o-scope.

Something with multiple channels (more than two). I've played with them before, but I think they could be very useful over the long haul, especially where diagnosing vehicle issues is concerned.

DucatiKiller

6:46 PM

great for alternators.

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