@MPD @MPD It's a shame really. I personally have slowly moved away from Drupal at work, and I found myself saying "I haven't done this in a while", way to often. Finally realizing I'm just not up to date any more.
@MPD That's a scenario I can buy. I would argue the voting culture here is part of the reason it got that way and would be part of the solution. Not that rep is what keeps people around, but it is what sorts good posts from bad and your expert users aren't going to be interested in a constant flood of mediocrity if nothing differentiates the good stuff when it happens.
Incidentally, anybody in here (or that drops by before this scrolls off) playing around with D8? It's been giving me conniptions and I was wondering if anybody was up for discussing experiences with it. I think it's a promising direction and I want to start an upcoming project in it (the project won't be in production until long after D8 should be released) but even playing around with it just to kick the tires has not been any cake walk.
@Caleb I've played around a bit with D8. I mostly found it problematic that there was (and maybe is?) no supported upgrade path. Otherwise I recall it working reasonably well for being the first and second beta. What's the problems you're having?
@Letharion I keep ending up with sites that for one reason or another the admin panel breaks and some page or another won't save. Mostly this seems to have to do with #D8MI stuff—I'm working on a non-English site with secondary languages. Having those items turned on seems to eventually lead me into one of about have a dozen show stopping situations without even introducing data or custom code for my site.
It might be partly that I'm behind a bit myself (my last big project was D6, I've only done a couple minor things in D7) that I'm having trouble getting myself out of trouble. I can't seem to move sites between servers or move between versions of the beta without the whole thing blowing up in my face.
Obviously some of this is just the nature of beta and bugs, but I'm wondering if I'm not fundamentally going about this wrong—somehow holding the wrong end of the snake if you will.
@Letharion It seems fine if you stick to one language, but I get dizzy quickly, followed shortly by D8 itself getting off balance, when you get more than one (esp if you change the default post-install).
@Letharion "Move between servers" is a must for devel » production. If I can't package up a site and move it to another devel server how am I going to possibly deal with a production env?
@Letharion I understand moving between beta versions (and devel HEAD) is problematic for fundamental reasons, so I've mostly been starting fresh sites for each tested version. I also know moving between versions has always been a huge development investment for D sites in general, which is part of why I'm playing with D8 now rather than D7. I don't want to have to rebuild this thing from scratch in a year!
@Caleb Ok, in D8 one of oldest and most fundamental initiatives is CMI. It's aimed specifically at making "moving between servers" much more reliable/predictable. I haven't looked around a great deal, but I'm guessing that CMI isn't terribly well documented yet. I'd suggest you look at some videos of how features work, so you get the basic concepts down. CMI is then "Features on steroids", and should be easy to grasp from there on. (Although maybe CMI has useful docs already and you can skip features)
@Caleb When doing that in the past, I assume at some point you've hit an issue with the DB not separating what's "content" from what's "configuration". Say, you update your Views locally, and want them pushed to production. You can't just overwrite the DB, as that would kill any new content as well. Agreed?
@Letharion Aye aye to that! You probably don't want to know how I solved that in the past with D6 in production. Mostly I've just run separate sites for testing and production, tested locally on dummy data, then when I liked it and knew what I was doing, made the same changes in production. For a couple sites I automated that myself (ugly). At this point I'm wasn't even worried about data, I'd be happy if I could get a snapshot of a site working between two devel boxes.
But if CMI/features can sanitize that, starting over with a site between versions doesn't sound so bad.
Thanks for the pointer @Letharion. I'll play around some more with that in mind.
Right. So in D6/7 Features has been a popular solution to that problem, but allowing you to split stuff out from the DB, and move individual or groups of components, such as Views. But it's been heavily hampered by core, making features kinda difficult to work with. CMI aims to rectify that. Initially I said above the it made moving between servers easier. That's not necessarily true though. It's more like it becomes "enterprise friendly". So I edited to say reliable/predictable. It does add complexity.
@Letharion Barely a minute in and it's talking about using git feature branches to push "feature sets" around between sites. This is very promising. Thanks for that link, the other videos I started were kinda hum-drum.