The Locker Room

user35386

5:04 PM

how can i get a better answer to this: fitness.stackexchange.com/questions/7507/…

@Sancho Good question (both the one in chat and the one you linked)

I'm not an expert on the practical side of things, but I'm inclined to say it depends on what you want

I do think its more important to focus on functional exercises, like squats, that train multiple groups of muscles, rather than focus on one in isolation

So given you're playing Ultimate, I'd say play more Ultimate

But then again I guess basket ball players focus on jumping too (which is isolated compared to playing basketball)

Oh and from what I remember from my muscle coordination classes, the timing component is very important for jumping higher

So just focusing on raw power with squats, won't mean you're timing will improve

I wonder if Google Translate would work on this: sporttechnologie.nl/sportprestatie/sportprestaties.pdf

@Sancho you might like this article about biarticular muscles

Here's another one: move.vu.nl/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/JacBobIng_1993.pdf

KronoS

5:22 PM

@IvoFlipse I've set a goal to complete a half tri by the end of next year. Is asking where and how to start on Fitness.SE on-topic?

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS triathlon?

An Olympic one or an Ironman?

KronoS

Well... neither lol

I was thinking smaller

Ivo Flipse

Triathlon

A triathlon is a multiple-stage competition involving the completion of three continuous and sequential endurance events. While many variations of the sport exist, triathlon, in its most popular form, involves swimming, cycling, and running in immediate succession over various distances. Triathletes compete for fastest overall course completion time, including timed "transitions" between the individual swim, bike, and run components. Triathlon races vary in distance. According to the International Triathlon Union, and USA Triathlon, the main international race distances are Sprint Dista...

KronoS

It's my goal to eventually complete an Ironman

Ivo Flipse

Olympic is doable with training

KronoS

5:25 PM

@IvoFlipse how long is that exactly?

Ivo Flipse

Don't expect a great time, but its doable, all distances are achievable with moderate training

Olympic Swim: 1.5 km (0.93 mi) Cycle: 40 km (24.8 mi) Run: 10 km (6.2 mi)

Swim, Cycle, Run

KronoS

@IvoFlipse lol I looked at the article you posted before the wiki... was wondering why you were linking about jumping lol

@IvoFlipse Hmmm... that just seems was too long for me.

Ivo Flipse

But still 40 km of cycling at a crappy pace takes two hours, running 10 km takes an hour and if you suck at swimming, that'll take 40+ minutes

@KronoS Interesting links eh? ;)

KronoS

@IvoFlipse I suck at swimming

though my friend's wife is an olympic swimmer so maybe I'll get some tips from her

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Well then it might take a bit longer

My advice, focus your training on swimming, the rest are manageable at a slow pace

KronoS

5:29 PM

@IvoFlipse ya it probably will. Anyways... is that on topic?

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Well first pick the distance you want to do that's doable, so we know what to train for

The novice one is easy peasy

KronoS

Well if you think that Olympic is doable by the end of next year then I'l shoot for that.

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Like end 2013? Heck that could be even doable end 2012, just not likely

KronoS

(Note: I'm pretty darn out of shape right now)

@IvoFlipse ya 2013 is my goal

Ivo Flipse

What are you looking for? Do you have any previous experience with either of the 3 parts?

You might want to take notes, so you can self-answer :P

KronoS

5:32 PM

@IvoFlipse lol

@IvoFlipse I ran cross country when I was in high school. Furthest I've ever run was about 10 miles, but I know that I can run farther when I get back into shape

I have a bike, but NO experience in riding

Is making it too personalized going to make it too localized for fitness.SE?

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Have you ever ridden a bike?

KronoS

@IvoFlipse if you're asking if I know HOW to ride a bike, the answer is yes, but nothing on a long distance nature

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Well if you give the right info, they should be able to create their own plan based on that

KronoS

@IvoFlipse ok that's what I was going for

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS That's not a problem, as long as you know how to ride one, seriously driving 20 km/hr only takes moderate training and no mountains :P

KronoS

5:35 PM

on a side note, is fitness.se still blogging?

Ivo Flipse

running 8-11 km/hr takes some training

If you want to keep a diary, you're more than welcome :)

KronoS

@IvoFlipse I was thinking it'd be a way to keep me motivated

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Great idea, I hope it works

I might even pitch in (both with writing and training)

KronoS

Ya me too... but I want to get a plan setup first and then start blogging about it

@IvoFlipse that would be GREATLY appreciated

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Off course

@KronoS What's probably a good idea is that you do some assessment in all three parts, to see how well you're doing

KronoS

5:42 PM

@IvoFlipse so do a run and see how well I do... and then the same for a swim and bike?

obviously not on the same day :P

Ivo Flipse

Yes, definitely not on the same day :P

Also, you might want to get yourself a heart rate monitor

KronoS

@IvoFlipse how much are those? We're running a little light on the monies ATM

Ivo Flipse

well in that case don't get one :P

Though even a cheap one would do

KronoS

lol

Ivo Flipse

You don't really care about the exact numbers, as long as the increase linearly and reliably

they go on Amazon for less than 70$ (Polar's which are great)

But again, if you're low on cash, you don't need them

But it helps to give us some numbers to quantify your condition

2

Q: How do I perform a micoach assessment workout?

I have Adidas micoach Pacer and plan to do start a marathon program. But first I want to do an assessment workout, to make sure I have my Pacer uses the right zone settings. However, I've never done an assessment workout and I wonder how I should dosage my running speed, as I don't have any i...

Btw you might want to save the money for going to the swimming pool and getting swimming glasses and such

KronoS

5:48 PM

> Run like there’s a lion after you

lol

@IvoFlipse I get access to the school's pool for free...

well actually I pay a crap load of money on tuition and part of that pats for me to use the facilities

I think I'm going to send out some tweets and see if I can some free stuff :P

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Awesome! In my case a pool subscription would cost me like 450€

Also: you NEED to swim in Speedo's (the type, not necessarily the brand)

@KronoS feel free to abuse Stack Exchange while your asking for it

KronoS

@IvoFlipse for sure!

@IvoFlipse so basically compression shorts? or specifically swimmers shorts?

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS As long as its tight, those surfer shorts slow you down

KronoS

@IvoFlipse oh right I know that.

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS A lot of people know that, but they don't want to look lame

KronoS

5:56 PM

@IvoFlipse I already look pretty lame in the water :P no worries there

Ivo Flipse

I think it would be fine if you first asked how to do an assessment workout

Then use the result of that to determine a plan de campagne

KronoS

> I've decided to run an Olympic Triathlon, and need to assess where I'm at in order to build a workout schedule on my own. How do I perform an assessment workout to see where I'm at in my swimming, running and biking?

Something like that?

0

Q: How do I perform an assessment workout?

I've decided to run an Olympic Triathlon, and need to assess where I'm at in order to build a workout schedule on my own. How do I perform an assessment workout to see where I'm at in my swimming, running and biking?

running training swimming bicycling triathlon

Ivo Flipse

Its a start

We might want to add what you've already seen elsewhere

One thing that's probably of importance: what do we want to assess?

How long you can keep something up right now until you hit your aerobic threshold?

Or trying to do some benchmark distance, like 1km swim, 5km run, 10km cycle ride

Or measure what you can do in half an hour

8

A: How do I workout my heart rate zones for training?

Basically, 50% is the transition point between resting and the first zone and every next zone is a 10% increase. Your max is 90%+. Here's the chart: Note: Image is from the wikimedia commons and released under CC-SA But look at the charts as an approximate baseline average for most people th...

When are you planning on starting?

KronoS

@IvoFlipse Probably my first week of school..

20th of Aug

Ivo Flipse

Ah, that's soon already

Is that the same school as last year?

KronoS

6:10 PM

I'm going to have a lighter schedule this semester so I was hoping to use some of that time to get back into shape and achieve some goals

@IvoFlipse yes but a WAY less schedule

Ivo Flipse

Well depending on the hours they're open, you can start early in the morning

most schedules probably want you to do every part at least 3 times a week

KronoS

@IvoFlipse I think they're open 24/7

Ivo Flipse

which means you either combine two or do one in the morning, one in the evening something like that

KronoS

@IvoFlipse I made a few edits to the question

Location	                Monday-Thursday	 Friday	         Saturday	        Sunday
Student Recreation Center	 6am-10pm	         6am-10pm	 8am-9pm	       10am-10pm

I give up... but those are the hours :P

Ivo Flipse

That's a nice range of times, if the misses gives you the time :P

KronoS

6:18 PM

@IvoFlipse Well the misses is going to be super busy. I'll hardly see her this semester :(

Ivo Flipse

You don't live together?

KronoS

@IvoFlipse no we do, but she has clinicals this semester so she's going to be gone at night

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS Oh boy, that's nasty

KronoS

ya tell me about it

user35386

@IvoFlipse But, if you can squat 240, your vertical will be higher than when you could squat 160.

Ivo Flipse

6:32 PM

@Sancho I think that model showed that's not necessarily true, we had a program where we could tweak the numbers to make it jump higher

You're muscles have to work together, stretching one joint after another to get of the ground effectively

user35386

@IvoFlipse And I can't play ultimate 24 hours a day. Outside of games and practices, when it's gym time, I want to know "how should I train my calves" if at all? Is it a waste of time to train calves specifically?

user35386

@IvoFlipse It happened to be true for me, though

Ivo Flipse

@Sancho Like I said, its a good question and my answer is very theoretical

michael

7:56 PM

@Sancho at my high school, many years ago, we had a machine called "The Bear", which was pretty much a rig that allowed you to doing a jumping back squat. The B-ball team swore that it dramatically improved jumping ability. I think the key is to up the weight, but keep the explosiveness. That's why back squat sans jumping doesn't necessarily help.

JohnP

8:16 PM

Hey all, anyone still here?

Nathan Wheeler

@JohnP nope

JohnP

ok, cool. I'll talk to myself then.

Nathan Wheeler

that wouldn't seem so out of place in this lot...

JohnP

@michael - The Bear (if we are thinking of the same machine) was a plyometric machine that allowed you to add weights. I think plyo's work by recruiting more neurons and fibers, which would increase jumps.

The muscle approach was pretty much covered, which is why I answered in the technique vein.

@nathan - agreed. :p

was hoping KronoS would still be here.

Nathan Wheeler

@KronoS is usually here if you <- ping him :)

user35386

8:19 PM

@michael Cool. Although, in high school, you could probably do nothing and your vertical would increase

KronoS

@NathanWheeler you panged?

JohnP

I see you were right, nathan. :)

@KronoS - Any extra input you need on the triathlon stuff?

KronoS

Ah I see... @JohnP what's up?

@JohnP not just yet. I'm just looking to start getting myself in shape and training for a Triathlon, so anything you can through my way on where to start would be greatly appreciated.

JohnP

Mostly just get out and do something every day.

Get as much running as you safely can, try for at least 2 swimming sessions of 2-3k per week and 3 biking sessions.

Two excellent sites: beginnertriathlete.com and slowtwitch.com. Slowtwitch is NOT newbie friendly like BT is, but there is a LOT of good info there.

That's where I got one of my mainstays for running, BarryP's 3:2:1 plan. Do a search on slowtwitch forums for "The Program" to find it.

@KronoS - Ivo's program is probably more suited to just getting in general shape, and then morph into a plan/my advice as you get a few months out from racing. He has good advice in his post as well.

Nathan Wheeler

@JohnP Of course I was right... what else did you expect?

Dave Liepmann

8:26 PM

@michael @JohnP I think I may have seen this "bear" contraption. What makes it better than, say, barbell jump squats? Or box jumps with a weight vest?

JohnP

I expected no less, @NathanWheeler - you just had information I lacked. Again, not surprising.

Nathan Wheeler

@JohnP :) my ego has been sufficiently boosted... back to work for me :(

JohnP

@NathanWheeler - Glad I could help.

Nathan Wheeler

LoL

KronoS

@JohnP thanks for the advice!

JohnP

8:28 PM

@Kronos - Anytime. I've been doing tri's off and on since 84, and off and on coaching for the past 5. If I could figure a way to make it full time and still feed the family, that's where I'd be. :D

Nathan Wheeler

@JohnP I think a triathlon would be fun, but I can't swim for crap...

JohnP

@NathanWheeler - Neither can most triathletes, unfortunately. And you'd be surprised how much flotation you get out of a wetsuit.

I consider wetsuits legalized cheating. :D

KronoS

@JohnP oh good! Now I know who to bother whenever I have a question :P

JohnP

Luckily, I started in swimming when I was 4. Now I suck because I never do it, got burned out first year of college.

Nathan Wheeler

it's not flotation I have issues with... my right arm fails/flails in the water...

JohnP

8:31 PM

@KronoS - No prob. You can always ping me here and I'll pop in if I'm around.

@NathanWheeler - Someday if you want to, take a video (Above and below water if possible) and I can do a stroke diagnosis. Just privately link it on youtube or vimeo or something.

Been doing sports for 41 years and have a kinesiology degree background, might as well use it for something.

@KronoS, @NathanWheeler - ALso check out a site called swimsmooth.com, great instructional site and I think they have youtube vids as well.

michael

@DaveLiepmann Probably nothing makes it better. Perhaps you are less likely to break the floor than if you drop a weight, and it won't crush you because the lower end could be adjusted.

JohnP

@michael - jumpusa.com/bear_squat_machine.html

michael

There it is.

Dave Liepmann

thanks John

Ivo Flipse

W00t lots of activity here :D

JohnP

8:38 PM

pahty pahty!

Nathan Wheeler

@JohnP I have Erb's Palsy

JohnP

@DaveLiepmann - No problem. Expensive though.

@NathanWheeler - That's....the brachial nerve? If so, that could be problematic.

You could do a sidestroke with that as your lead arm, less stress and motion that way.

Ivo Flipse

@JohnP The reason mine is so safe is because I keep getting injured because I push too hard and probably slack on all the side conditions (stretching, balance/strength training)

Nathan Wheeler

@JohnP yes, severe brachial nerve damage since birth, so I also have quite a lot of lost range of motion

JohnP

@IvoFlipse - Stretching hasn't been proven to help in injury prevention, but imbalance certainly would.

@NathanWheeler - Yeah, I'd have to see your stroke before I could reliably recommend anything. It wouldn't automatically preclude you from being able to do tri's though.

I

Ivo Flipse

8:43 PM

@JohnP I know stretching before/after exercise doesn't help, but my range of motion is really poor. I've been sitting on my ass the past 4 years (workwise) which I never did as much before

JohnP

@IvoFlipse - I've been chafing under my achilles restrictions. Taking the time to fully recover and then spend until next June prepping for next tournament season (martial arts).

Ivo Flipse

And I keep getting shin splints or at least pain on the medial side of my shins, so I really should do something to compensate for it

but I can't make myself jog slowly :(

JohnP

@IvoFlipse - Yeah, a good stretching regimen after exercise would help. I know it's anecdotal, but I believe stretching regularly is a large part of my injury avoidance.

Ivo Flipse

It probably won't hurt anyway

Dave Liepmann

@JohnP Via mobility/range of motion?

JohnP

8:45 PM

That you really need to do. Best run advice I've ever seen is a guy on beginner tri, Scout7. "Run. Run lots. Mostly slowly, sometimes fast."

Nathan Wheeler

@JohnP my right arm (hand) doesn't go above my head without just swinging it up there. I have only 1 of my tricep muscles I can fully activate, my elbow will only straighten to about a 75-degree angle

Ivo Flipse

Yeah, last year I was doing a marathon program, was going strong, but pulled a muscle

back then I was starting slowly, but can't make myself do it again

perhaps when I get back from my holiday I'll try it again

JohnP

@DaveLiepmann - Yes. There have been a few times I've rolled ankles and avoided injury due to flexibility, stepped off the bike in a slide and been stretched out, etc. Being flexible has saved me quite a few times from injury.

Ivo Flipse

and do some strength training (well squats and the like)

I'd love to do triathlons, because I used to play waterpolo and anyone in the Netherlands can cycle :P

JohnP

:)

Ivo Flipse

8:46 PM

so I'm looking forward to hearing how it'll go with Kronos

so I can try and beat him, hehe

JohnP

Actually, the achilles rupture has been my only injury in 41 years that has kept me out for more than 2-3 weeks, and that's pretty much year round competing in something every year.

@IvoFlipse - hehehe. Sweet. Internal warfare.

Ivo Flipse

@JohnP achilles rupture is really nasty

JohnP

@NathanWheeler - I'd have to see the stroke. I'm fairly certain something could be done if you really wanted to swim/do tri's.

@IvoFlipse - Yeah, was on crutches for 6 weeks, cam boot for another 2. Been in PT for 1 week now, and maybe in 8 weeks I can think about running. He's telling me 4-8 months more before fully healed :(

Ivo Flipse

@JohnP Worst case, his other arm would have to compensate for it

@JohnP Ah man that sucks

Plenty of time for Fitness.SE though :D

JohnP

Yeah, that's why I'm thinking a modified freestyle or side stroke would work.

Hehe too much. Although I can get back on the bike on the trainer now. It's amazing how much fitness you lose in 8 weeks of sitting on the couch eating chili/cheese tater tots. (Wife isn't a great cook :p )

Nathan Wheeler

8:52 PM

@JohnP I might take a video... I'd like to be able to swim better, not necessarily for tri's though. I'm not in any danger of drowning, I can move around and stay on top of the water without much effort, but trying to move with any grace or speed doesn't work out too well :)

Ivo Flipse

I wonder how backstroke would go

JohnP

@NathanWheeler - Then you'd be fine. Like I said, you'd be amazed at how bad triathlon swimmers are for the most part.

Ivo Flipse

Probably be just as bad, but at least you can let gravity do the work

JohnP

@IvoFlipse - I was thinking the same thing, sighting is the only problem.

Ivo Flipse

There's a ceiling I'd take

JohnP

8:53 PM

Depends on how much mobility behind the shoulder there is.

Ivo Flipse

Takes some getting used to figuring out which lamp is near the wall though, hehe

Else, you'll feel it soon enough, I have the scars to prove it

KronoS

@JohnP I'll definitely check them out. I also have a friend who's a professional swimmer. I hoping she'll help me out.

Ivo Flipse

I swam into a wall at full speed butterfly stroke, because I was watching my brother instead of where I was going

JohnP

@IvoFlipse I watched one sprint tri early this year, they declared wetsuits illegal. 10% of the field didn't start, and I saw some people abandoning within 100m of the start because they didn't have wetsuit aid.

Ivo Flipse

@KronoS If only there was a site where you could ask your questions...

KronoS

8:55 PM

@IvoFlipse lol

JohnP

@IvoFlipse - I've done that on back. "Was I at 4 or 5 stro...WHAM!!!"

Ivo Flipse

@JohnP I could imagine not wanting to start because of the cold, but not because of the speed advantage

JohnP

Too warm for wetsuits, and they can't swim well enough without the flotation assist. Sad, really.

They rarely declare tri swims too cold, but if it's over 78 degrees then they declare the wetsuits illegal, too much chance of overheating.

KronoS

@JohnP @IvoFlipse should I be more concerned with time or distance?

i.e. workout for 30 mins or workout for a certain distance

JohnP

@KronoS - Time. Distance will increase naturally.

So if you run 30 mins at a 9 min/mile pace now, and 4 months from now you can run at 7:30 pace, your distance will increase from 3.2ish miles to 4 miles for the same time.

@KronoS - I REALLY like the 3:2:1 plan. 6 runs per week, 3 short runs, 2 medium, 1 long. Your long run is double the time of the medium runs, and the mediums are double the time of the short.

So if your short run is 20 mins, then your med. runs are 40 mins, and long is 60.

S:M:S:M:S:L:off.

KronoS

9:00 PM

How do you incorporate that into the swimming and biking? Same thing?

JohnP

For running, consistency is king. Even if you only run 10 minutes for your short runs, 6 runs a week is much better than 2-3 runs of 20-30 a week.

Generally I'd structure it so that your swimming workouts (Either 2 or three a week) are same days as short runs. 3-4 rides a week, with one longer ride of a couple hours.

If you structure it right, you can work out every day and only take a rest day every couple weeks.

KronoS

@JohnP so no matter what do running each day, and then on top of that do the swimming and biking?

JohnP

If you have the time, yeh.

@KronoS But, make sure that you ease into it. Keep it low key until you get some base fitness, say 3-6 months worth. You can probably easily complete a tri in a few months, but may take a year or more to be able to compete, depending on what age group.

KronoS

I got's to go... taking the little bro to meet his new teacher

I'll talk at y'all later

JohnP

aight. have fun.

Nathan Wheeler

9:09 PM

@JohnP @IvoFlipse sorry... went for coffee... backstroke isn't bad, but sighting is horrid, and I end up going in circles to my right because my left arm has many times the strength of my right arm :)

I'm the world's best doggy-paddler though!

KronoS

11:53 PM

@JohnP here's a question for you... would replacing every other week the medium run days with swimming be good? Or should keeping that schedule of running everyday be important?

Transcript for