The Periodic Table - 2016-08-28

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12:14 AM

@DEAD it's not clear to me whether it's a proposal (the title is a question) or something already decided upon by a subgroup (mods, power users, etc) (everything is written in detail, in present and as authoritative)

my 2 cents here, which are probably worth much less given that I don't contribute much these days

this will lower the quality of contributions to the site and increase the number of unanswered question, which I view as one of the main issues of the site as it currently is

there's kind of a broken window effect: if the overall quality of questions is low, you won't attract high-quality contributors and high-quality answers. Writing tons of answers to simple low-level questions is not rewarding.

@F'x It's only his proposal, so I guess quite a bit of discussion is needed.

All major contributors should agree for such thing

6 hours later…

6:19 AM

@F'x In the past few months, people have closen everything that lacks research as homework.

That has caused some ruckus.

Some bad feelings.

We started redefining what homework is, but that seemed to take forever.

1 hour later…

7:39 AM

@DEAD I quite like your proposed experiment, worth a shot. Can't hurt..but I am not being too optimistic

4 hours later…

11:59 AM

So much pingz.

12:10 PM

Sigh. I found a wrong answer (without references for the wrong part) that was upvoted (+12) and accepted.

Oh nice. Link please?

11

A: What does lowercase r-s notation mean?

This notation is used to designate so-called "pseudo-asymmetric carbons." This occurs in instances in which precisely two of the groups bonded to a tetrahedral carbon are structurally indistinguishable in terms of connectivity (i.e., the same atoms, bonded with the same multiplicity, and in the s...

It took me half a day to write a correction.

Let’s start a downvoting spree. (I humbly believe @IUPAC’s version to be accurate.)

Actually, I was looking from something else. I was looking for questions about how to assign R or S in 1,4-disubstituted cyclohexanes and similar symmetrical structures.

Surprisingly, we don’t have a question about it. It only occurs once in a comment.

Although this question suggests itself when you look at som of our "are these two compounds enantiomers?" questions.

But 1,4-disubstituted cyclohexanes are typically Cs-symmetric, aren’t they?

Unless of course we have !!img/1-(but-2-yl)-4-methylcyclohexane

12:22 PM

No result found.

Damn you, @chemobot D=

@Jan Yes, most examples are achiral. Nevertheless, they can have two pseudoasymmetric centers.

Hence, the question would be how to assign r or s.

An example with a real chirality center is 1-ethylidene-4-methylcyclohexane.

!!img/1-ethylidene-4-methylcyclohexane

user image

For example (R,Z)-1-ethylidene-4-methylcyclohexane.

@Chemobot, why can you process @Loong's request but not mine? D= *goes sulkking in the corner*

@Loong Yeah, that one is chiral, but it’s not what one would think of typically when hearing 1,4-disubstituted cyclohexanes, is it? ;)

12:29 PM

Yes, as I said, most examples are achiral.

But achiral molecules can have pseudoasymmetric centers.

For example, (1s,4s)-1,4-dimethylcyclohexane and (1r,4r)-1,4-dimethylcyclohexane.

!!img/1,4-dimethylcyclohexane

user image

And surprisingly, no one ever asked how to choose r or s in such cases.

I wanted to explain it in the above-mentioned question about 1-ethyl-4-methylcyclohexane.

However, since I had to correct some other misconceptions in the other answer, my answer already became long enough. ;-)

I can also understand why many people still prefer cis and trans for such cases. ;-D

*sheepishly puts a hand up* xD

And also it’s much easier to talk about syn-5-hydroxy-4,6-dimethylheptane-3-one than to think about the corresponding other descriptors.

2 hours later…

2:59 PM

5

Q: Why can't carbon form an ionic bond?

My textbook says that a $\ce{C^{4+}}$ cation cannot be formed because it requires a lot of energy to remove 4 electrons. Formation of ionic bonds involve "removing" electrons and there seems to be enough energy there. So what's different for carbon? The textbook also mentions that a $\ce{C^{4-}...

organic-chemistry bond covalent-compounds

3:46 PM

@getafix Even if the net gain is zero, we're gonna change the policy to one we did during the experiments. Not closing the same questions is always better than closing them if we were to choose one action.

@F'x Well, we obviously can't keep up the stats of the time you were very active, but people were concerned about this, and it's needed.

Note to self; I need to gather some stats right before the experiment starts, and after it ends.

@getafix Of course the results aren't going to be extraordinary or miraculous. But we need to do our best to improve experience on the site, not deteriorate it.

The whole point of closing is keeping users happy.

But a minority take offense to closure, but that's besides the point.

People these days take offense to everything.

@Jan Edited this

Part of it is because of unnecessary political correctness, which turns people into bomb triggers.

They're waiting for a reason to explode.

Like a diethyl azodicarboxylate.

4:01 PM

@Mithoron Edited what?

@DEAD Damn. I was just about to make that joke ;(

Part of it is because life has become too dull, and people don't deal with drastic situations like they did before.

@NotWoodward Next time, type faster.

I had to google to make sure it was actually shock sensitive. I've never had need to hit it with a hammer (yet.)

@Jan This question you commented, to be edited with mhchem

Oh that one xD I’ll check it in a sec ^^

4:03 PM

@NotWoodward How many times have you hammered chemicals in your life?

Why did your avatar change?

@Jan I can't believe this is the eleventh time I link a relevant post.

19

Q: Why is my profile image different?

When I first signed up on a Stack Exchange site and got a profile image, it was this one (see my current user card): Later, I got Area 51 and SEDE profiles, and my user image there was a different identicon. Because reasons I already know. I would have a picture of it, but that's the problem....

bug profile-page area51 data-explorer

Oh, it's caching. Got it.

@Jan No, not caching.

It's an issue on gravatar's side.

It generates different avatars for different sizes when it only should be taking the hash into account.

Yeah, but I saw Mith's avatar being the 'normal' one in here, so if something is different, something's wrong, and I'll just blame caching.

4:21 PM

@Jan My avatar didn't change. I simply have another generated for other size as DEAD says

Whatever damnit ^^

Anyway, I answered the question you edited ^^

@Jan Whaaaat you would've nitpicked us to death if it were us

Naaah, I would've given up because other stuff xD

You know, it’s terrible. I keep having to offer bounties to make sure my chem rep doesn’t exceed my German rep D=

Why? Will you be running for mod soon?

Where?

4:31 PM

German

Highest rep community might mean commitment. Or in your case, affection.

I don't think that site'll have election any time soon xD

And it'll be damn hard to surpass Takkat …

Read: impossible.

In rep? Or awesomeness?

In rep. I don't judge awesomeness, it doesn’t translate well into numbers ;)

Well, every site has a bunch of heavyweights whose voice everyone respects.

Who's that in the case of German?

Takkat, Loong and Wrzl I would say … the mod team ;)

4:38 PM

Takkat's already a mod?

You're seriously competing with a mod?

I'm not even competing xD

I'm just competing agains my self on chemistry :p

@Jan Defeating.

2 hours later…

6:38 PM

@DEAD I agree with you; but for instance it would be best if we exclude those "ask and run" users..who sign up, ask a question, and are never seen or heard from ever again. ?

@getafix Then what difference would it make if we don't close their question?

This isn't meant to appeal to some users.

This isn't supposed to be less strict moderation.

This is moderation.

We're just changing the rules.

Well, I guess it would just be a better use of people's time; I feel it is better to focus on questions where the asker would at least be somehow involved in the discussion (even the question isn't that great to begin with)..simply because it is more likely to produce better content in terms of answers+discussion in comments

just my 2 cents..

@getafix That would work in theory.

In practice, what you say will only be true if we're certain that questions don't get the attention they deserve if we leave a couple of them open.

I have seen proof of the contrary.

ah okay fair enough

We're in a stage that there are many users but not as many posts.

6:54 PM

I see. I guess I'm not around most of the times, just pop in once every few months..so, can't really say anything about the user/post ratios on the site. But I believe you haha

So is this experiment happening 100%? or are mods/users yet to take a final call on it?

@DEAD "We're in a stage that there are many users but not as many posts." Is there an argument to say that we should also make a concerted effort to ask good quality questions for the sakes of asking good questions for the sakes of getting more participation.

@NotWoodward That's always a duty.

Now chatting is over. Get back to work

@getafix I didn't see any disagreement. 11 upvotes tells me we should start right at Sep 1.

Please note that the reason this experiment exists is because I wanted us to get something done

I can't stand apathy anymore.

Cool..so that's not that far away then

@DEAD Really? I was implying asking questions that we know the answer to (that aren't dupes) just for the purpose of giving new/other users something to participate in to keep them engaged whilst also building up some good quality Q&A

@NotWoodward That always you can do.

You're asking whether we should make quality content by blah blah blah. I'm saying that's what we should be doing and the blah blah blah isn't important.

7:26 PM

-4

Q: General Chemistry

Calculate the vapor pressure of ethanol at a temperature of 298 K using the Gibbs free energies of formation for C2H5OH(l) (-174.78 kj/mol) and C2H5OH (g) (-168.49kj/mol. Write an equation for the vaporization process and compare your prediction to the known vapor pressure.

Perfect in every way.

Doesn't this count as a blatantly obvious homework question?

Yes, it does.

ah okay! I thought you meant we should keep questions like this open and answer them

I'm stupid but not that stupid.

haha sorry. my bad. In my defence it is 4.30 AM and I did wake up a little while ago in the middle of the night for no fucking reason, so forgive me for I am a little off..

I would believe this is the kind of question that benefits from your experiment?

0

Q: What happens to the mobility of Group 1 elements going down the periodic table?

Whilst reading the book, So you want to go to Oxbridge (Third Edition), I noticed that it states that a past question given during an interview for the place on the undergraduate chemistry course (M.Chem) was: What happens to the mobility of Group 1 elements going down the periodic table? ...

In fact, given the policy right now..I believe I shouldn't have answered it, lol

7:37 PM

@getafix That's close to it, yes.

@getafix No.

My bad..

If you have a valid contribution to make, nothing should stop you.

Not even closure.

Especially not closure.

Oh okay. I guess I should've sent the OP off to do some research by himself, providing a helpful comment or two before I posted an answer.

That 'valid contribution' is subject to interpretation.

@getafix That's entirely up to you.

With that answer, you've done the best you could.

But well..he seemed like a genuine fellow..not an "ask and run" type, someone who wanted to actually learn, i guess..I am big ol' softie

7:39 PM

We frown at answers to homework because the answer isn't particularly useful typically.

It is the best example of spoonfeeding.

I have always wondered, but never bothered to check..what happens to the rep you might've gained from an answer on a question that is closed?

But a good answer to a bad question makes you a hero.

@getafix Nothing. But if it gets deleted, all that rep is revoked.

Ah okay. I see.

Ben (Norris) provided a lot of very nice answers to bad questions.

That doesn't make him an outlaw, it makes him a hero.

The reason we close questions is so they don't piss off people like him

If he's such a nice man that doesn't get bothered, and sees the questions worthy of his time, he's the better man.

Haha, I see

Anyhoo..I should fix my insomnia

get some zzzz's

G'night

7:44 PM

Night

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Aug '1628

The Periodic Table

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