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Yannis Rizos
Yannis Rizos
6:29 AM
-3
Q: how do I save an array containing id values on ruby on rails

FistosI am building a school timetable, the timetable has 6 subjects a day (mon-friday). I have created an input field <%= f.text_field "gradeclassroomsubject_id[]", :value => @array_values %> But I just don't know how to save it on my controller. Do I loop saving it? I've been stuck on th...

software-industry
WTF?
 
 
7 hours later…
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
1:29 PM
Even Workplace can get random off topic programming questions!
Do you put toilet paper in the holder so that the paper comes out over or under? If over, you are analytical and should start with programming. If under, you are artistic and should start with graphic design. — Robert Harvey 14 hours ago
 
Rachel
Rachel
1:47 PM
@BenBrocka lol I'm pretty sure I put mine under, but I'm a Programmer :) Is he trying to suggest I'd be a better graphic designer?
 
René Wolferink
René Wolferink
@BenBrocka I prefer over, but I have given up the eternal struggle and now it's under... Does this mean that I have given up on quality over appearance as well now?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
2:08 PM
@RenéWolferink Over is the only correct answer. Why would you hang it so you have to reach farther to get it?
 
Rachel
Rachel
@BenBrocka That's totally wrong, its so much easier to pull on if it comes out under instead of over. Otherwise it gets all twisted or wrapped around the tp holder :)
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
I've never had it end up "twisted" or wrapped around, unless you tear the first sheet in half then you've got a problem
 
Rachel
Rachel
Maybe it's due to the position and style of my holder... :)
 
gnat
gnat
2:47 PM
that could make a "great" WP question. What do I need to learn to decide for our company toilets whether to put the paper in the holder so that the paper comes out over or under?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
How do I handle coworkers who hang the toilet paper the wrong way (you know who you are)?
 
Rachel
Rachel
3:01 PM
@gnat That's easy to answer: Nothing. It does not matter, so you do not need to learn anything ;)
@BenBrocka Don't joke about that, or I'll go make a constructive question out of that :p Something like "How can I professionally handle pet-peeves about things my co-workers do? For example, they hang the toilet paper the wrong way...."
 
gnat
gnat
3:28 PM
aren't we a perverted bunch. Slapping, sleeping with boss' wife (still at the top in the hot questions btw), now toilet paper. Where will this end?
 
Rachel
Rachel
@gnat Hey these are serious workplace issues! :)
 
gnat
gnat
oh I know I know we'll end asking "how can I professionally and politely handle saving an array containing id values on ruby on rails"
@Rachel now that would be a really serious WP issue wouldn't it
 
Rachel
Rachel
@gnat lol sorry I don't think there's any way that question can be saved
 
gnat
gnat
3:47 PM
@Rachel oh c'mon this is answerable on topic question. Answer should explain importance of respecting ruby on rails and necessity to keep trust to the array, expecting it to honestly return id values every time you ask for it at your regular 1:1s...
...but not forgetting about the need for performance evaluations
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@gnat I slapped my bosses wife with toiletpaper
4
 
Rachel
Rachel
Hrrrmm speaking of performance reviews, I got my first one today in about 5 years
The only thing they said I should work on is arriving on time, and I just learned today that salaried employees are expected to work 7:45 to 4:00.... nobody ever told me that and I switched to being a salaried employee roughly 3 years ago. I always thought it was 8:00 start time like normal, and the salaried employees just had a great work ethic and always arrived early :)
 
gnat
gnat
4:08 PM
@BenBrocka (green of envy) that's... a quintessence of Workplace issues! Apparently few months of moderation made you a true expert in site topics
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@Rachel My trick is to arrive 5-10 minutes early and leave that early. That way if I'm 5 minutes late I arrive on time and leave on time. Depends if your boss is okay with it, mine is (we're pretty laid back)
An extra 15 minutes seems unreasonable though
 
Rachel
Rachel
@BenBrocka See I always arrived 5-15 minutes, meaning I arrived anytime between 7:45 and 7:55. But since I thought my start time was 8:00 and it was actually 7:45, this made me fairly regularly "late"
@BenBrocka The reason for the change in hours for salaried employees is because salaried employees are all management in some way, and if problems are going to occur they'd rather have them handled before the rest of the employees get in
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@Rachel "Management", the management clause gets abused to expect random IT personnel to work unpaid overtime though
We have a staggered team of IT people though for the "handle problems" thing though. Our main tech support guy starts at 6 (before any plants open) and the last one out leaves 5 minutes after 5 just in case anyone is working late (most plants close at 3 or 4 though)
 
Rachel
Rachel
4:28 PM
@BenBrocka Hrrmm we only have 3 members in the IT team and they handle different duties. One for network admin, one for programming, and me who does a bit of both and has lately been doing websites
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
We have roughly the same, plus the CTO and two support people
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
1
Q: How to politely prevent coworkers from altering one's contributions to knwoledge-base?

demonz demonzGood peoples, in the company where i work we use intensively one nice knowledge base about technical stuff. Everybody can ask stuff and everybody can answer. Of course, there's always contributions that one think could be improved. You know, sometimes people misspell words, or use lexical figure...

etiquette knowledge-transfer
There's got to be a way to explain to this guy "No, that's not how a wiki works, you're doing it wrong!"
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Suddenly multiple Rachels
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Sorry?
 
Rachel
Rachel
I'm the real Rachel :)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
4:38 PM
No I'm the real Rachel! All you other real Rachel's are just imitating ;)
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RachelKeslensky I'm looking at that question now... I'm sure there's some edit that needs to be made but I can't quite think of it right now
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Oh, I wanted to edit that question to death when I first saw it. Kinda sad when stupidity announces itself so blatantly and it looks more like he's really asking "How can I get people to stop correcting my bad grammar" and trying to make it look like it's someone else's beef.
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
I just had to do some edits to that, left the grammar alone though
 
Rachel
Rachel
I think the OP is more concerned about the fact it sounds like there is no record of the edit, so the end result is he's attributed for a bunch of things other people wrote
(and I don't know about you, but I don't have my images turned on and seeing two sets of "Rachel" in chat is confusing!)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
... why don't you have your images turned on?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
4:46 PM
@Rachel well one of them should have blue speech bubbles for you :P
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
... lord this guy's just full of comedy gold. "Seed of censorship" my tucus...
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
If I weren't lazy I'd 'shop some Deal With It glasses on Rarity there
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RachelKeslensky I haven't enabled my internet bypass filter yet today, so images are blocked :)
@BenBrocka You've totally lost me.... I see no blue speech bubbles :)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
He means your responses are in blue boxes.
It's a light blue, I can see how you might miss it.
 
Rachel
Rachel
Hahaha I'm blind, never noticed that
My left-monitor is old though, so colors aren't as distinct in it. I see it pretty clearly in my other monitor
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
4:50 PM
This said, It would help if you included a last name/initial vs. just going by "Rachel"...
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RachelKeslensky I don't want people calling me "RachelL" or "RachelLim", I prefer Rachel :)
(My last name isn't a big internet secret considering its displayed at the top of my blog that's linked in all my SE profiles...)
@RachelKeslensky At least your parents had the decency to spell your name the right way ;)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@Rachel And they were the only ones who ever seemed to :-p
By about the eighth grade I just walked up to the stage whenever I heard my last name being completely botched.
 
Chad
Chad
@RachelKeslensky My new favorite rant as a question :)
@Rachel I think we should just change your name to Suzie :)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Oh hell no.
 
Chad
Chad
@RachelKeslensky Darla?
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
5:01 PM
Suzy, Soozie, Susie, Susan...
 
Chad
Chad
we can treat your names like toys and take them away so neither ofr you can play with them :p (JK if you didnt guess)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Do I look like an MTV cartoon character? :-p
 
gnat
gnat
26 mins ago, by Rachel Keslensky
There's got to be a way to explain to this guy "No, that's not how a wiki works, you're doing it wrong!"
 
Rachel
Rachel
@gnat Grrr you're making trivial edits when I'm trying to make a substantial edit again :p
 
gnat
gnat
@RachelKeslensky we've got experts here, look eg at this comment submitted by OP to the answer in another question...
Definitely a good lesson of humility for me :) — marco-fiset May 29 '12 at 15:39
@Rachel sorry I just couldn't stand Good peoples
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
5:07 PM
Yeah, I know. That said, this guy is definitely fishing for an answer when he doesn't get that he's asking the wrong question to begin with.
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
This is a good example of a question where "don't do that" is a perfectly valid answer though. No idea if he'll take the advice though
2
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RachelKeslensky I think its reasonable to ask how to politely ask co-workers to stop editing your work, and instead run all changes through you instead, but I think some key pieces of information were missing from the question and it sounds like the core question isn't really highlighted the way it should be
If there weren't so many good answers related to the knowledge base already, I'd edit it to completely remove that reference and make is solely about how to politely ask co-works to stop editing your work, and to come to you with changes instead
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
If this guy was publishing an article under his name and he got annoyed that the content was changed en route that would be one thing, but it's hard to hear him complain that "oh, my name's attached to it, I can't allow edits!" when he's asking a question in a system that does EXACTLY THAT.
 
Rachel
Rachel
Maybe if I have time later (and one doesn't already exist), I'll see about asking a question like that, and link it to this one
@RachelKeslensky Yeah, the fact it's a community knowlege base changes things a bit, but its hard to write a good answer without knowing the exact rules defined for the thing
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@Rachel Still, it's a bit like sitting in a gym and asking how to get people to stop giving you tips on how to use the equipment correctly so you don't hurt yourself.
 
Rachel
Rachel
5:14 PM
@RachelKeslensky I think it's different because he seems more concerned about edits being attributed to him. Kind of like you writing a list of tips on a whiteboard at the gym along with your name, and someone erasing or editing part of your work but not leaving their name or saying anything to indicate what you originally wrote had changed.
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Which I get, but if the system isn't designed to handle that behavior, then the software needs a new feature added to accommodate this user behavior, which is heaps easier than trying to change the user behavior.
Which I think is the ultimate answer here, vs. trying to tell users not to do what the system clearly allows them to do.
 
enderland
enderland
@gnat I actually have a funny story which is somewhat related... when I was traveling for work, they had a lot of TP just stacked up on a shelf behind the toilet. At a prior place I lived, we once had a shelf next to a shower which was just begging for nick-knack/decoration, so we once made artwork there with TP
so... at this place I visited for work, I definitely made the random stack of TP into an artistic arrangement. Should I ask a question about whether this is professional or not? I mean, it is a legit question :o
2
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@enderland Ow my head.
 
Rachel
Rachel
@enderland I think the suitability of toilet-paper for decorations would probably be too-localized based on the culture of the workplace :p
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@BenBrocka I hope this guy takes the advice, I need him to accept my answer if I'm going to bust the rep cap.
 
Rachel
Rachel
5:27 PM
Hrrmm I'm consistently surprised by the number of people who praise me for being such a fast worker and having such a quick turnaround time.... I spend a lot of time on SE, so if I'm considered "fast" then what on earth are my coworkers doing with their time?? :p
 
enderland
enderland
@Rachel oh man, I feel the same way whenever I'm working in a corporate environment
 
Rachel
Rachel
(But on a more serious note, I need to use the StayFocused plugin for Chrome to ensure I don't spend more than an hour a day on SE sites - 2x 15min breaks and half my lunch break)
Otherwise I'm sure I'd never get any work done :)
 
enderland
enderland
hmm, just lost the workplace?
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@Rachel Fast == "Not working on anything else", usually.
 
enderland
enderland
I really wanted to respond something like "start using git" or something to the "version control" questino
2
Q: How do I deal with a coworker who listens to the radio all day?

demonz demonz Possible Duplicate: What can I do about a very loud coworker? I have a really annoying workmate. As soon as he gets to the office he turns on the radio and listens all day long to a horrible radio program. I think that's disrespectful, because he could just use earphones and respect ot...

work-environment
why do people answer questions they vote to close? I've never understood this
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
5:41 PM
@enderland Because free rep, there's even usually answers to steal from!
 
enderland
enderland
Also @RachelKeslensky welcome to the Workplace. Don't think I've seen you here before :-)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@Rachel Like a lot of things, sometimes it pays to work at whatever pace they expect you to work, or at least look like you are, lest you end up with a situation like this: somethingpositive.net/sp08022010.shtml
@enderland I usually hang out over in UX@SE. Good place, slower pace though:-p
 
enderland
enderland
Hah. I sometimes think I should frequent there more... I am getting a degree in HCI after all, lol
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@enderland I would! Half the reason I'm over there is to keep myself in practice / use it to fluff up my resume over on Stack Exchange Careers.
 
enderland
enderland
@RachelKeslensky it's interesting. I think that nearly anyone designing technical systems (whether IT or engineers) should have a background in HCI
or UX
 
Rachel
Rachel
5:46 PM
@enderland Sometimes I like to just give the user an answer before voting to close and removing their ability to get any other answer. Mostly this is in cases of too-localized questions though
I'm not sure this question is a duplicate:
3
Q: How do I deal with a coworker who listens to the radio all day?

demonz demonz Possible Duplicate: What can I do about a very loud coworker? I have a really annoying workmate. As soon as he gets to the office he turns on the radio and listens all day long to a horrible radio program. I think that's disrespectful, because he could just use earphones and respect ot...

work-environment
This one is specifically about radio volume. The other is about a co-worker who is loud
The solutions for the two can be very different
 
enderland
enderland
I agree.
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@enderland @Enderland I usually provide an answer so the person to asked gets SOME course of action / solution, then close it as it doesn't really belong here. Easiest way to keep them from getting annoyed that they didn't "get what they came for"
... you know what I meant.
 
Rachel
Rachel
A loud co-worker cannot be turned off by management, while a loud radio can be.
(at least not legally) ;)
 
enderland
enderland
But they can be.... terminated... permanently :|
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
There are ways to turn coworkers off for a few minutes at a time. They tend to complain about the weight gain eventually though.
 
Jim G.
Jim G.
5:56 PM
4
A: How should I respond to a manager apologizing?

OdedThank your manager for sorting out the issue with the salary. You do not need to do more than that - the company owed you money, your manager sorted out the issue, which is part of the job of a manager.

^^^ While @Oded is 100% correct, I wonder if the OP really needed to ask Workplace.SE for help in the first place.
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RachelKeslensky Took me a minute to "get" that ;)
 
enderland
enderland
@JimG. the asker obviously doesn't know what response is appropriate
 
Jim G.
Jim G.
@enderland And why does the OP need to respond?
 
enderland
enderland
@JimG. it seems really obvious to me that 1) the asker doesn't know whether or not they need to respond and 2) don't know how to respond if they should respond
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Predictable, potential edit war on the "editing knowledge base" question. Not quite yet though
 
enderland
enderland
6:02 PM
If there was ever a question which should be community wiki... LOL
 
Rachel
Rachel
@BenBrocka He's asking about a situation where it looks like people are putting words in his mouth by editing his content... of course he'll take offensive to any unexplained edits that do just that :)
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Most of the edits were corrections, not words in his mouth...
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
It'd be hilarious if I wasn't involved in it. His responses have included remarks about editing Albert Einstein's 'opinions' on the Theory of Relativity. (That's not how science works either, dummy!)
 
Rachel
Rachel
Hey now... I was thinking of giving him the chat link in comments to discuss this. Be nice :p
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Go on...
Although given his comments to this answer, I'm not sure he understands how SE works either: workplace.stackexchange.com/a/8752/5086
 
Chad
Chad
6:32 PM
@JimG. So downvote but do not insult the OP in comments.
@BenBrocka I really hate when people try to ask questions about a third party that is in reality them~
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@Chad Doubly so when they fail pretty miserably in hiding that fact.
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@Chad my friend hates that too
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@BenBrocka What a coincidence! ALL of my friends hate when that happens!
 
Chad
Chad
The question the op wants to ask is how do I change my KB at work into a forum where people are forced to read my opinions if they want to know how things i set up work
I feel like my head is going to explode How should I handle this?
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
6:47 PM
Is that a legit question or a comment on the situation at hand?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Well the first thing you should do is not explode
 
Chad
Chad
@RachelKeslensky Well the problem is people post questions here that are not real problems and ask use how they should handle it.
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Oops, CW
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@Chad In other words, this is a job for Meta?
 
Chad
Chad
I so badly want to post a one line answer... You should take your 200 option grant and be greatful.
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
6:54 PM
Oh wow I didn't even see the self answer
 
Chad
Chad
-1
Q: How to handle a newcomer getting a larger stock option grant than myself as oldtimer with the company?

StevenI work at a startup and we recently hired another person. Yesterday I received an electronic document to sign that was a stock award of 500. Surprised, I pulled out my original hiring stock award document and saw it was 200. This was exceptionally surprising because nobody had said anything to me...

startup
There is no real question here and the edit to the title is kinda rude but i have no idea what title to actually give it
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
0
Q: Repeated Question Meme - "I feel like [my head is going to explode]. How should I handle this?"

Rachel KeslenskyWe've had a number of questions like these lately: http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/8765/how-to-handle-a-newcomer-getting-a-larger-stock-option-grant-than-myself-as-oldt How should I respond to a manager apologizing? How to politely prevent coworkers from altering one's contrib...

discussion
2
You're welcome!
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Well the latest one handled itself
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@BenBrocka Yeah, you didn't see it because it's been downvoted to the bottom of the page. Somehow this makes him think "I must be right, everyone that agrees with me just hasn't said anything because it's so obvious"
@BenBrocka Yeah, but it takes a semi-legit question about whatever the topic is and makes it all so personalized that it becomes harder to answer.
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
7:09 PM
Yeah
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Although I DO find it hilarious that the question has now become "community wiki" from being edited so much. XD
 
Chad
Chad
My problem is the questions are asking us to tell them what to do. But they have not said what that want to do. I do not think we want to be dear abby or am I wrong on that
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
I disagree. I think the questions are pretty clear in telling us what they want to do, they're just asking how to get what they want without being labeled an asshole.
 
enderland
enderland
Nah I agree with @Chad on this one. Most of these questions need about 3x the content to be effective questions
We aren't mindreaders
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Okay, maybe it's just that last one.
 
enderland
enderland
7:15 PM
By definition of this site, we are going to get a lot of practical questions which are at core "here's a situation. what should I do?" or "I did this. was this a good idea?"
I think this is ok. so long as there is enough information to actually ev¬uate
Stuff like that insurance one are asking a very similar core question but leave out 90% of the important informatino required to actually answer it effectively
 
Chad
Chad
@RachelKeslensky I think its more of tell me what to do so i have someone else i can blame if something goes wrong
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@Chad Because "Some guys on the internet told me to do this!" is ever a good excuse?
 
Chad
Chad
@RachelKeslensky It allows them to shift responsibility(in their own mind) to someone else
@RachelKeslensky Besides if it is on the internet it has to be true...
Time to get back to my day job as a french model... we we
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
Yeah, I know. I've hit the rep cap for today anyway, I should chill out.
 
Rachel
Rachel
@enderland I'm quoting you in the answer I posted to @RachelKeslensky's question on meta
It's very true that due to the nature of this site's scope, we're going to get a lot of questions like that
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
7:23 PM
> I am the last guy who is not afraid to say the truth in these forums. I´ll ask politicaly incorrect questions even if they take away my beloved experience points, or health points or magic points, or whatever the points they give you happen to be, i´ll answer unpopular answers if they are true, for i am not here to entertain you but to be the voice of reason in a world of increasing violence and censorship.

If you are like me, unite in this epic quest for truth and rate me up.

United we stand.
Oh ffs
 
Rachel
Rachel
Hrrmmm I guess someone disagrees with me because my answer has a downvote already
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@BenBrocka Where is this darling gem?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
If that guy's Evan Carol I'ma be pissed
Ugh I have to stop reading his answers or I'll hit the serial vote reversal script
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@BenBrocka At least it's not Tyler?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
I did that once while deleting someone's answers (and suspending them for dumping 20 crappy answers at once)
Fun fact, the script removes votes from deleted posts too
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
7:29 PM
Most of his answers seem benign, if banal. It's just his behavior in those two most recent (and heavily blasted) ones that seem to make him into a moron.
 
jcmeloni
jcmeloni
Friendly reminder! Flag early, flag often. Most of the time mods can do things when there are lots of flags...
4
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@RachelKeslensky On the whole (poor, mostly one liner answers, profile text, question about "editing in a knowledge base") I strongly suspect a troll actually
 
enderland
enderland
@BenBrocka just slap him away
 
jcmeloni
jcmeloni
@BenBrocka I do too, and am looking for community flags to help us support the appropriate actions...
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@BenBrocka Now that you mention it, the fact the KB he mentions behaves "very similarly" to SE should've tipped me off sooner...
 
Jim G.
Jim G.
7:43 PM
@Chad Excuse me? Where was the insult?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@RachelKeslensky "his friend" probably told him it was much like SE ;)
 
Rachel
Rachel
Grrrr ok I know @BenBrocka and @RachelKeslensky you guys are both very active on UX.SE.... Do you think it's OK to have a user click on a link to listen to a recording, and have the recording come up in a popup with an overlay graying out the entire page? Why or why not?
 
enderland
enderland
@Rachel what's the purpose of why users will visit the site?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@Rachel Well it's better than what Wikipedia does with sound clips :P
But yeah I see zero reason to use a modal (especially graying out the background) for a sound-only interaction
 
enderland
enderland
@BenBrocka Depends on what the purpose is (or @Rachel is ok with people being heavily distracted by clicking around on the site, etc) in my opinion ;)
 
Rachel
Rachel
7:53 PM
@enderland To learn more about one of our programs. The recording is a bunch of testimonials
I hate all the clickiness of the site >.<
 
enderland
enderland
@Rachel to external customers?
 
Rachel
Rachel
@enderland The site is for external clients and the testimonials are from people like what the client works with
@Chad You're confusing me with your comment here:
Those are good on topic questions. "I dont like my dress code what should i do?" and "I cant get the time off when i need it what should I do?" are not. We can help them with a path to their preferred solution, and even tell them if their solution is not the right choice, but we should not be choosing the solution for them. — Chad 7 mins ago
The original point of the question was about how to handle questions that say "I don't like X, how can I do Y" as opposed to "I don't like X, what should I do", but your comment makes it sound like the reverse - you approve "I don't like X, how can I do Y", but disapprove of "heres my situation, how can I fix it"
"Do we really want to accept these questions that are all more or less fishing for 'how do I do what I really want to do in a polite way' vs. asking for actual advice?"
 
enderland
enderland
In unrelated news, we now have two of the top five "hot questions" :)
 
Chad
Chad
@JimG. your telling people they should not need to be asking that here
@Rachel Its not the how can i do Y questions so much as the I do not like x what should i do questions. And I do not think that picking a solution for them and editing it into the question is right unless they have indicated that is what they want to do
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@enderland I've never seen a hot question with such a tepid score on the question itself
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
8:09 PM
@Rachel I'd say it's an acceptable solution, but not the best one (as someone might want to do something else while they listen). Feel free to join UX@SE and ask the question to the whole community though.
 
Jim G.
Jim G.
@Chad Well if telling someone that they shouldn't be asking something on Workplace.SE is an insult, then you've insulted many people.
@Chad Not to mention the fact that I never said that to this OP.
 
Rachel
Rachel
@Chad I think it depends on the question. Many questions need to have details clearly defined to be answerable, but there are a few where that is not needed.
@Chad One I can think of off the top of my head is the one about how to handle people who spell your name incorrectly (workplace.stackexchange.com/q/5961/316)
In some cases, the OP simply has no idea what they can do in their situation, so is asking here to figure out how he/she should professionally handle the situation
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
8:32 PM
I just wanted to saw I'm really glad you guys aren't The Bridge
 
enderland
enderland
@Chad I see where you are coming from on this, and agree, but am finding it hard to articulate my agreement
It's somewhat like on SO when people have "gimme teh codez" questions - these are not really helpful
 
Rachel
Rachel
@BenBrocka Why is that? :)
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@Rachel The arguments in there (like the one going on now)
 
Rachel
Rachel
8:48 PM
@BenBrocka Took me a minute to remember which site had "The Bridge" as their chatroom
 
Chad
Chad
@Rachel That question is should i tell them? not what should I do.
 
enderland
enderland
@Rachel which site does?
 
Rachel
Rachel
@enderland Gaming.SE
 
Chad
Chad
If the question was my boss keeps puting the wrong name on my paycheck what should I do? it should be closed until the OP indicates what they want to achieve. It should not bee acceptable to edit that question to say how do i get my boss to put the correct name on my check unless the op says that is what they want
 
Rachel
Rachel
@Chad Hrrm guess I'll just agree to disagree with you on that :) I think that "Here are the details about my specific situation that is not too-localized, what should I do" is a perfectly valid question :)
 
Chad
Chad
8:51 PM
@Rachel It is a valid question but it is bad because it is too open ended
 
Rachel
Rachel
@Chad That's why I said it should be judged the same way you would judge any other on-topic question
 
Chad
Chad
@Rachel There are plenty of good questions that just do not belong on SE... IE What is the meaning of Life
So my head should just explode :p
 
Rachel
Rachel
You shouldn't close it just because it asks "What should I do" or "How should I handle this", you should instead evaluate if you should close it by the question contents. Does it contain enough detail, is it too broad, etc
@Chad That has a definitive answer though - 42 :)
 
enderland
enderland
no, that's the ANSWER to life, not meaning
 
Chad
Chad
@JimG. I am sure I have. But I am trying to turn over a new leaf... Again you need to raise the bar where you judge your actions by,
 
Rachel
Rachel
8:56 PM
@enderland Good point :p
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
9:08 PM
I can totally see this new trend in men's winterwear catching on
I've always wanted to look like a giant mitten
 
Chad
Chad
OMG someone posted a pic on my facebook of this biker dude with a beard wearing pink and pastel blue leathers and riding a girls bicycle :p
 
Jim G.
Jim G.
@BenBrocka The man in the front of the line... I wonder what his shirt says. It says 'Please Kill ___"
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@JimG. I'd put 50/50 odds on "Yourself" or "Me"
 
Rachel
Rachel
9:24 PM
lol the knowlege base question has hit the top of the top questions list with a score of 267...
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
It's been there for a while I think
 
Rachel
Rachel
Hrrmm I don't usually see questions get that high
I didn't think it was that great of a question. It was probably due to all the attention it got from high-rep users, as i seem to recall someone said the algorithm takes into account the rep of users who participate in the question :)
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
I don't think it does, however it takes into account the votes on answers, and there are several highly voted answers
 
Rachel
Rachel
@BenBrocka Maybe the number of updates plays a role in it?
19
A: How are "Hot" Questions Selected?

Jeff AtwoodWhat Formula Should Be Used To Determine "hot" Questions? Based on my analysis of the above and the comments so far, here's the second version of what I have implemented so far. This might suck. I don't know: (log(Qviews)*4) + ((Qanswers * Qscore)/5) + sum(Ascores) ----------...

 
Jim G.
Jim G.
@RachelKeslensky :)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
9:33 PM
@Rachel Drama, Drama, Drama. Considering I have the highest-scored answer I've ever had ANYWHERE from SE, and only 400 rep on TW...
My only regret is that I'll probably never get him to accept that answer so I can pop my rep cap ;)
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
9:50 PM
@Rachel Just views and votes I think
 
gnat
gnat
10:03 PM
3 hours ago, by Ben Brocka
Fun fact, the script removes votes from deleted posts too
@BenBrocka I learned that recently, too. And even updated the FAQ at meta.stackoverflow.com/a/126857/165773
###Does the system detect voting fraud in deleted posts?

As of now, vote reversal script involves deleted posts:
> the vote invalidation does trigger on deleted posts. Don't take it personally - the script is dumb...
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@gnat I found it annoying as I usually downvote anything I delete that otherwise deserved a downvote, and deleted/downvoted questions count for answer bans. Those answers should have counted toward the ban
turned out to be a non-issue though, so oh well
Also I did fully read the answers, and took the time to delete them as I went, so I'm a bit offended the automatic process assumed I did'nt read them
0
Q: NDA - Invention after termination of engagement

Susie G.I'll have to sign an NDA as part of a job as a consultant. The job is only for a few weeks, yet the NDA states something along the lines of "any invention that was made 1 (one) year after contract termination will be presumed to have been made in the course of the engagement". So I guess this me...

contracts
 
gnat
gnat
@BenBrocka in my case I fully read the answers, too, although, mea culpa I cast votes in one pack, ie after I did that. Script is "dumb" and I found this fair that it did recognize it as unusually fast succession. Although, I find it a bit too dumb for script to ignore fact that all user's posts were deleted when it run...
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Hmm can the practical "what do I do here" bits be slavaged from the apparent "legal advice" bit? NDAs are an important part of workplace stuff so I'd have to see them be treated as totally off topic, but the legal-bits make them very tricky.
@gnat Yeah I don't see a good reason to remove "serial" votes on deleted posts (except maybe upvotes). Clearly the downvotes were valid if the post was removed
 
enderland
enderland
2
A: Repeated Question Meme - "I feel like [my head is going to explode]. How should I handle this?"

enderland Do we really want to accept these questions that are all more or less fishing for 'how do I do what I really want to do in a polite way' vs. asking for actual advice? I have been thinking about this a fair bit. The main thing I keep coming back to is that a lot of these questions are the Sta...

 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
And it doesn't affect their rep either way
 
gnat
gnat
10:14 PM
@BenBrocka well no I see a somewhat valid edge case for that. Look, imagine evil me and newbie you. Now imagine...
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
@enderland A year's claim to their IP for just a few weeks' worth of actual pay? How the hell is that enforceable?
 
enderland
enderland
@RachelKeslensky My point is this is a "here's a situation. what do I do?" question
 
gnat
gnat
... imagine I cast 5 DVs on all your 5 posts and tyou (newbie) get scared and self-delete all these...
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@RachelKeslensky Yeah that seemed incredibly sketchy, probably lawyers going crazy (or someone who thinks they're a lawyer)
 
gnat
gnat
...it'd be fair to revert votes in that case
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
10:15 PM
"This week, on LAWYERS GONE WILD!"
 
gnat
gnat
despite the fact that posts are all deleted
mod deletion would be of course another matter
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
I guess. But the flipside is there's also totally legitimate cases of serial downvoting on really low quality posts spammed all at the same time. There's always edge cases, I just think deletion should be a damned good hint the post probably should have been downvoted
Plus they were mod deletions, and mod downvotes, and mod suspensions...
 
enderland
enderland
Heh. you mean when users spam our site with bad answers we should be wary of downvoting them in case we hit the serial downvoting problem?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
I forget how many it was, but I woke up one morning and he had posted like 20 answers all over
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
What is the "serial downvoting problem"? lost rep?
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
10:18 PM
@enderland Unfortunately
@RachelKeslensky Targeted votes, really. It's usually a case of revenge downvoting or friend/sockpuppet upvoting when one user votes repeatedly on the same second user within a very short time frame
 
enderland
enderland
"hey this guy downvoted me (I think?). I'm going to downvote... everything of theirs!"
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
Pretty much
Or, you know, "this new user spat out 10 low quality answers within 4 minutes" but the script doesn't know that
 
gnat
gnat
10:33 PM
56
A: What is serial voting and how does it affect me?

animusonWhat is voting fraud? Voting fraud is when a single user continually upvotes many of your posts within a short period of time. This is not considered normal behavior and the system will not allow it. If it continues to happen between two certain IP addresses (voting each other up) or from a sing...

 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@enderland But more to the point, when you see that happen, still downvote, but also flag when appropriate. As long as the post is deleted properly it doesn't really matter whether the downvotes are reversed or not
The only concern would be if your downvotes on bad answers, that were answers and thus not deleted, got reversed too
 
gnat
gnat
@BenBrocka "they were mod deletions" well if you come to MSO with this use case to request tweaking script, keep in mind that I for one will not only upvote but also give it my standard high importance package of two "draw attention" bounties each keeping it featured for a week
 
enderland
enderland
heh
I'ma ctually posting a post there now :-)
 
gnat
gnat
50 then 100, I am not too rep-rich at MSO, so I keep it at minimal values :)
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@gnat Is there a Q for that?
Or is @enderland making one?
 
enderland
enderland
10:41 PM
@BenBrocka I'm making a "fix serial downvoting to account for people who post constant @#%@#" type post lol
 
Ben Brocka
Ben Brocka
@enderland Cool, if I see it I can add some background
 
gnat
gnat
@BenBrocka I won't post, my use case is slippery enough to be overruled by the need to keep script simple. Actually, I see some chance to break through tweaking it for ironclad all posts deleted, all mod deleted but anything weaker than that is at risk of getting rejected. Script simplicity is kind of sacred cow and that's for a reason; you need something really outrageous to change
 
enderland
enderland
10:58 PM
@gnat @BenBrocka
0
Q: Why does the serial-downvoting script include deleted answers?

enderlandMy understanding (inspired by this answer and conversations in The Workplace chat) is the serial-downvoting script currently does not include: Overall +/- votes for an answer Whether answer was deleted by the user Whether an answer was deleted by moderators Whether an answer was flagged How ne...

discussion feature-request serial-voting
@gnat what room on chat.SE? :P
 
enderland
enderland
11:14 PM
i agree that these are closely related yet different topics. The guy who makes noise, using his own body, could be a sick person, and his noises could be the result of some mental or physical disorder. In my case, the guy is perfectly healthy, as far as i can tell, and is only an under-educated, unsensitive person. Speak of the devil.. there he comes.... — demonz demonz 5 hours ago
lol
"speak of the devil... there he comes" posted by an account named "demonz, demonz" is quite clever
 
gnat
gnat
@enderland I don't like chat, sticking almost exclusively to two "W", and even then only when I feel necessary. Water Cooler and Whiteboard
 
enderland
enderland
11:29 PM
Inexplicable to me that this question is so popular. It is extremely easy and obvious to answer, and it doesn't even properly relate to computer programming in the first place. (Edit: Oh, I see. There's a cool answer. But it seems kind of lame that a bad question that happens to get a good answer gets voted up...) — Evan Harper 59 mins ago
This is hilarious to me in light of the actual top "popular" question right now (which is still the one on our site)
 
Rachel Keslensky
Rachel Keslensky
11:51 PM
@enderland he never did accept my answer...
 

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